EPT
.League of Legends - Page 67
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Mogwai
United States13274 Posts
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Tooplark
United States3977 Posts
(join liquidparty) Mundo is hard to play well and he doesn't really pay off if you do. It's like an intentional handicap. A fed Yi can shred disorganized teams (and let's face it, if you're fed as Yi they're pretty bad), a fed Tristana destroys everything, fed Twitch is insane... but fed Mundo really doesn't pay off that much. Usually Mundo ends games quickly, though... one way or the other. (join liquidparty) He's just too much fun for me to play a lameface like Twitch though. | ||
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Unentschieden
Germany1471 Posts
On February 24 2010 03:51 Southlight wrote: @Unentschieden I know it's current HP, but if you don't get hit your HP simply rises with Mundo, unless you're at max HP. Essentially it becomes a crappy +20 or whatever flat damage addition it gives. Because no one will hit you. There's no point! There're plenty of better targets to focus fire, and Mundo does nothing that FORCES you to hit him. I know it´s hard to think Mundo deals Damage with all the fools that just get HP on him but let me quote his skills from the Database: Infected Cleaver - Dr. Mundo hurls his cleaver, dealing damage equal to a portion of his target's maximum health and slowing them for a short time. Dr. Mundo hurls his cleaver, dealing damage equal to 15/18/21/23/25% of the target's current health (80/130/180/230/280 damage minimum) and slowing them by 40% for 2 seconds. Cooldown 4 seconds Cost Costs 20/35/50/65/80 Health Burning Agony - Dr. Mundo drains his health to reduce the duration of stuns and slows and deal continual damage to nearby enemies. Toggle: Dr. Mundo deals 40/55/70/85/100 (+0.2) magic damage to nearby enemies, and reduces the duration of crowd control effects on Dr Mundo by 25/30/35/40/45%. Cooldown 4 seconds Cost Costs 20/27.5/35/42.5/50 Health per Sec Masochism - Masochism increases Dr. Mundo's physical damage by a flat amount for 5 second. In addition, Dr. Mundo also gains an additional amount of damage for each percentage of health he is missing. Increases physical damage by 40/55/70/85/100 for 5 seconds. Dr. Mundo gains an additional +0.4/0.55/0.7/0.85/1 damage for each percentage of health he is missing. Cooldown 7 seconds Cost Costs 15/30/45/60/75 Health Sadism - Dr. Mundo sacrifices a portion of his health for increased movement speed and drastically increased health regeneration. Dr. Mundo regenerates 50% of his Max Health over 12 seconds. Additionally, he gains 15/25/35% movement speed. Cooldown 60 seconds Cost Costs 20% of Current Health Mundo isn´t Tyrnadere, he doesn´t need to get hit to deal damage.In fact he already does the most damage of ANY champion at lvl.1-5. Masochism is hamphered by Mundos slow attackspeed, not the lack of Damage. There is also the considerable nuke in form of Cleaver to full HP opponents. | ||
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Mogwai
United States13274 Posts
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ProTech_MediC
United States498 Posts
https://www.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=64640 Thanks in advance! | ||
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Mogwai
United States13274 Posts
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ProTech_MediC
United States498 Posts
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Unentschieden
Germany1471 Posts
They stack additivly but Burning Agony needs to be active when you get CC´d turning it on during the effect doesn´t decrease it beyond Mercs. Also note that Knockups are not counted as CC. | ||
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hasuprotoss
United States4612 Posts
On February 24 2010 05:03 Mogwai wrote: I've always thought it would just be fine if they let you customize Rune Pages in Champion Select the same way you can customize your Mastery Trees. ofc this scales poorly with more runes and would require a better interface for customizing rune pages, but I think it's a fairly flexible solution to the problem. Or just let you save Masteries/Runes to each champion; however, if you play a certain champion two different ways then you could see problems. | ||
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ProTech_MediC
United States498 Posts
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Mogwai
United States13274 Posts
On February 24 2010 05:08 Unentschieden wrote: @mogwai They stack additivly but Burning Agony needs to be active when you get CC´d turning it on during the effect doesn´t decrease it beyond Mercs. Also note that Knockups are not counted as CC. lol, Knockups are stupid. Not as stupid a dynamic as fear, but still... wtf, that's so annoying. brief fear rant tangent: FEAR IS DUMB. IF YOU WANNA MAKE THE MECHANIC THAT FEARED UNITS ALWAYS RUN AWAY FROM WHAT FEARED THEM, THAT MAKES SENSE AND WHILE STILL STUPID AT LEAST MAKES SENSE, BUT THE WHOLE REVERSE THING IS JUST DUMB! IF I'M FRIGHTENED BY A FUCKING SCARECROW THAT'S CHASING ME WITH A BUNCH OF BIRDS AROUND HIM, THAT'S NOT GONNA MAKE ME TURN AROUND AND DIE RATHER THAN KEEP RUNNING AWAY! RABBLE, RABBLE RABBLE! On February 24 2010 05:03 ProTech_MediC wrote: ^ then mention it in the LoL thread so that it gets the attention of the devs I did :p On February 24 2010 05:10 hasuprotoss wrote: Or just let you save Masteries/Runes to each champion; however, if you play a certain champion two different ways then you could see problems. Yea, I dunno, I just don't think that solution is very flexible and it seems wasteful when most people stick to a 1-5 champion rotation for the majority of their games. I understand that memory is cheap and stuff, but it still seems like a waste of resources to account for everyone having 1 page/champion. | ||
TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On February 24 2010 03:22 Mogwai wrote: So I've started playing Sivir for when my team needs someone to solo mid in solo queues and I've been using the build suggested in this thread awhile ago (mana  CryStal -> boots + catalyst -> starks -> merc treads + banshee's veil -> stack BF Swords) but I feel like I'm finding myself to be too little of an individual threat in team fights before I get BF Swords. I never die due to having spell shield and veil and my ult, and while that's Nice for boosting my team in combination with stark's, it Just seems like the other team can ignore me and whipe the rest of my team out in most team fights and there's not a whole lot I can do about it... Maybe I'm Just getting unlucky with teammates in queues, but I'm  Really feeling like getting something to boost my damage output (probably Just a BF Sword, but I've also been thinking of Zeal or Phage for incidental survivability bonuses and saving some gold) before finishing my veil/treads most games... what are the Sivir players' opinions on this? I'm curious about the choice of Catalyst. It's good for heroes that need to go back and forth ganking between lanes past level 6 (the best comparison I can think of is the Bottle in DotA), but as far as I can tell, Sivir doesn't fit that bill--you hit level 6 and you're still laning and farming. Chalice of Harmony (which is what I've seen my higher-level friends take in that slot) seems like the better long-term option. In regards to Banshee's Veil, I've Always seen that as a team-dependent item. It's not something you throw into the build and say you'll get it every time. Especially in solo queues, there are simply team comps against which you don't *need* Banshee's Veil that early. In which case, earlier damage items might help you more.Note: accidentally hit TLPDize, figured I'd leave it that way. | ||
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Tooplark
United States3977 Posts
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Mogwai
United States13274 Posts
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On February 24 2010 05:39 Tooplark wrote: Catalyst is IMO the best regen item in the game, plus it builds into so many useful items. Chalice is a dead-end item that I'd only take over Cat if the enemy team has a lot of magic damage, and it doesn't increase or restore HP like Cat. The thing is, I don't think it's that simple. Chalice provides steady regeneration over time, while Cat provides regeneration in bursts, that become less frequent as you level up. This is appropriate to heroes that will be spending their mana in bursts, because when you get a kill, you expect to level from it, or soon after. Regenerating in bursts isn't really appropriate to Sivir because she's not spending it in bursts--she's spending it continuously all the time, and an item that returns it to her continuously all the time is going to be better suited to her. The fact that Catalyst builds into "so many useful items" is not really relevant, as only one of those items actually makes sense on Sivir. The DotA analogy is Bottle vs. Perseverance. That the Bottle is the "better" and more economical regen item means nothing when deciding which to get on a given hero. It comes down to the regeneration needs of the hero at hand, and even though Bottle is "better" doesn't mean it produces better results on a hero that needs steady regeneration, and not bursts. On February 24 2010 05:41 Mogwai wrote: Veil almost always seems good to me. I dunno, there have been games where I skip it early, but they tend to be rare. Really I just did it because of an earlier suggestion in the thread and it has been working alright for me since it's good for staying on your solo lane early and actually builds into something useful later. Chalice is certainly a more economical option, but I just think being able to get a cheap banshee's veil earlier seems better to me cause it tends to make you damn near unkillable in the mid game. *shrugs* I have a really small Sivir game count at this point though, so I'll let more experienced sivir players duke it out on how to build her, but in my small sample size, I've been pretty happy with getting a quick veil. Ok, now I'm confused. Weren't you JUST complaining that you don't put out enough damage? That your survivability was meaningless in the face of being unable to support your team with an appropriate damage output? Stark's and Merc Treads aren't really negotiable, so really the only replaceable items at hand are Catalyst and Banshee's Veil. If you're treating the build as immutable, I'm not sure what you're looking for. Obviously skipping Veil entirely isn't going to be appropriate for most games, but putting an attack item (probably BF Sword, but potentially finishing an Infinity Edge or Frozen Mallet) seems completely normal. | ||
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StorkHwaiting
United States3465 Posts
On February 24 2010 05:31 TheYango wrote: I'm curious about the choice of Catalyst. It's good for heroes that need to go back and forth ganking between lanes past level 6 (the best comparison I can think of is the Bottle in DotA), but as far as I can tell, Sivir doesn't fit that bill--you hit level 6 and you're still laning and farming. Chalice of Harmony (which is what I've seen my higher-level friends take in that slot) seems like the better long-term option. In regards to Banshee's Veil, I've Always seen that as a team-dependent item. It's not something you throw into the build and say you'll get it every time. Especially in solo queues, there are simply team comps against which you don't *need* Banshee's Veil that early. In which case, earlier damage items might help you more.Note: accidentally hit TLPDize, figured I'd leave it that way. 50+ games as sivir with a more than 2:1 win ratio vs very solid players and I can say that I've gone both ways to see which is better. The catalyst is 100% better. Catalyst gives HP AND mana, AND builds into Banshee's veil which is huge survivability for Sivir. Sivir doesn't need to get out there and do a ton of damage with her auto attack. She just needs to be there for her ult, spiral blade nuking, and clearing creep waves. Sivir's range is too short for her to be very effective dps until late game where she just mops up with her bounces. She can't dps it out with people in the early-mid game because she has no stuns or slows and if you're rushing to dmg items she's as fragile as a twitch or teemo. Sivir's job earlier on is just spiral blade + ult + clear creeps. Late game, once she gets some tankiness and dmg items, then she can be a good support dps. But midgame, she is nowhere near as good as the AP nukers nor is she as good as the dedicated dps like twitch/tristana/corki. Trying to build sivir like a twitch is suicide and not very good. Chalice is for early game noob farming and is near worthless in late game. Catalyst gives a big hp boost, costs only a few hundred gold more than a chalice, and builds into banshee veil which is essential late game gear. You don't have to rush to banshee veil first, but catalyst is extremely easy to buy as Sivir. I have never had any issue getting catalyst and starks before 15 minute mark. And that catalyst will help farm the BF sword way better than trying to rush farm and buy the BF sword before buying any hp. GL staying alive vs Shaco/TF/Annie/Twitch/malphite as Sivir without any hp items. Any decent team will 100% look to gank Sivir first. | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
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Southlight
United States11767 Posts
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StorkHwaiting
United States3465 Posts
On February 24 2010 06:27 TheYango wrote: The thing is, I don't think it's that simple. Chalice provides steady regeneration over time, while Cat provides regeneration in bursts, that become less frequent as you level up. This is appropriate to heroes that will be spending their mana in bursts, because when you get a kill, you expect to level from it, or soon after. Regenerating in bursts isn't really appropriate to Sivir because she's not spending it in bursts--she's spending it continuously all the time, and an item that returns it to her continuously all the time is going to be better suited to her. The fact that Catalyst builds into "so many useful items" is not really relevant, as only one of those items actually makes sense on Sivir. The DotA analogy is Bottle vs. Perseverance. That the Bottle is the "better" and more economical regen item means nothing when deciding which to get on a given hero. It comes down to the regeneration needs of the hero at hand, and even though Bottle is "better" doesn't mean it produces better results on a hero that needs steady regeneration, and not bursts. Ok, now I'm confused. Weren't you JUST complaining that you don't put out enough damage? That your survivability was meaningless in the face of being unable to support your team with an appropriate damage output? Stark's and Merc Treads aren't really negotiable, so really the only replaceable items at hand are Catalyst and Banshee's Veil. If you're treating the build as immutable, I'm not sure what you're looking for. No offense Yango, but that's a horrible analogy -_-. The main point of buying a bottle in DotA is to hold runes. The regen is just a cute bonus on top of that, and if you have good rune control, the bottle will give a TON of regen + possible ganks with DD or invis rune. And the cost difference between perseverance and bottle is astronomical. Not even close. Perseverance is triple the cost and impossible to even buy in a similar time frame. Chalice and Catalyst on the other hand are farmed at nearly the same time, Catalyst being only a few hundred gold more, which as mid solo means you just get boots on the 2nd trip back, rather than the first. Just not a good analogy. The reason catalyst works better than chalice is simple. Sivir doesn't need constant mana regen. I've never run out of mana with Sivir using catalyst. It just doesn't happen. She doesn't have spells that use that much mana. Blade is what, 110 mana at top level? Bounce is 6? How is she going to burn through 1k+ mana with base regen + mastery mana regen and that big a mana pool? The entire rationale that Chalice is good because it gives consistent regen misses the point that Sivir doesn't need that regen. She's got masteries, a big mana pool from banshee veil, and her base regen which at level 11+ is considerable. If it's still a problem, buy blue mana runes and I guarantee she'll never run out. You're doing something wrong if you have mana problems as Sivir. | ||
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Mogwai
United States13274 Posts
The point I'm making about catalyst is that it's not really up for debate whether you need an item to give mana regen to be an efficient laner early and the most obvious choices seem to be catalyst and chalice. While chalice costs less and fulfills the mana regen component nicely, it seems to me that making an earlier investment on catalyst makes more sense because of how it transitions into the later game by turning into banshee's veil. The HP boost and regen is also a pretty important pro for it too. I'm not trying to treat any part of the build as immutable, but I'm offering up why I prefer catalyst over chalice in the abstract. EDIT: jeez, bunch of posts really quickly there... in case the above posters are unaware, the only reason I'm looking for more dps earlier is because of how my solo queue teams have been turning out recently, so before you chastise me for even considering a damage item before starks, just take it in context of a shitty solo queue team -_-. To be clear, the proposed build I'll be trying in solo queues where I need to be more of a carry than a support hero is: mana crystal + 2 hp pots catalyst + boots B. F. Sword Veil + Bloodthirster + Merc Treads Stark's With me playing the ordering of items in the + rows by ear based on how the game's going. | ||
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