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Marshall Islands3404 Posts
On February 20 2010 00:15 Kaniol wrote:Show nested quote +On February 19 2010 08:37 Brees wrote:
the only thing broke about tf is his ability to farm a lane and then join a teamfight whenever he feels like it. besides that I think he is just a counter to aggressive dumbasses.
typical scenario: TF reaches lvl 6 and has upgraded his saph crystal to sheen. one of the side lanes is pushed out way far or engages a fight. TF gates in, double kill.
if people werent dumb this would never happen. personally I cant remember the last time ive died to tf gating in because I am always aware of when his ult is up, so you just have to play more cautious with him around really. if he doesnt get mejai stacks he is squishy and goes down before he can do much. Maybe at your ELO. At higher level it is problem with how well his skills synergise and the most annoying thing - BANSHEE DOESN'T STOP GOLD CARD'S STUN!!! Aaarghh, it is soooo frustrating
i dont get why everyone responds with "maybe at your elo lolz"
i play with people in the top 500 consistantly, what difference does it make? i dont see tf as OP, its an opinion.
edit - to add insult to injury you are lvl 20 -_- what the hell
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On February 19 2010 16:58 Mogwai wrote:
lol
so I played and bunch of Pantheon tonight and I'm starting to dig doing boots first with utility tree masteries up to the speed boost (3 perserverence, 1 haste, 4 awareness, 3 meditation, 1 greed, 3 quickness). You start with 391 speed this way which is really nice and liberating from playing the usually slow early game. Meditation is also really all the mana regen you need to be able to judicially chuck spears in the early game. I can't spam like I did in my meki pendant days, but in the long run it seems like going boots -> B. F. Sword gets you up to effective ganking/chasing speed fastest.
I see a lot of Pantheons go long sword first, but I think boots will play out better more often as you get 2 extra healing potions and you need boots before B. F. Sword anyway to be an effective ganker/chaser (whereas long sword forces you to go brutalizer which is pretty meh for cost effectiveness compared to BF Swords for doing burst q-w-e/w-e-q damage).
I go boots first with pots and some mana regen runes. But I go brutalizer after boots just because of how spammable it makes heartseeker. -10% CD for some reason makes a big impact for my panth games. I go merc treads after brutalizer, then go for BTs. I think both ways are doable though. I just prefer brutalizer because of how quickly it allows me to farm lanes/jungle/gank. Panth really becomes a monster farmer once he gets some -CD with his heartseeker.
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On February 20 2010 09:21 Brees wrote:Show nested quote +On February 20 2010 00:15 Kaniol wrote:On February 19 2010 08:37 Brees wrote:
the only thing broke about tf is his ability to farm a lane and then join a teamfight whenever he feels like it. besides that I think he is just a counter to aggressive dumbasses.
typical scenario: TF reaches lvl 6 and has upgraded his saph crystal to sheen. one of the side lanes is pushed out way far or engages a fight. TF gates in, double kill.
if people werent dumb this would never happen. personally I cant remember the last time ive died to tf gating in because I am always aware of when his ult is up, so you just have to play more cautious with him around really. if he doesnt get mejai stacks he is squishy and goes down before he can do much. Maybe at your ELO. At higher level it is problem with how well his skills synergise and the most annoying thing - BANSHEE DOESN'T STOP GOLD CARD'S STUN!!! Aaarghh, it is soooo frustrating i dont get why everyone responds with "maybe at your elo lolz" i play with people in the top 500 consistantly, what difference does it make? i dont see tf as OP, its an opinion. edit - to add insult to injury you are lvl 20 -_- what the hell
TF ult + Crow ult + Sivir ult + Ali stun + Twitch ult? It's not about how imba TF is on his own. It's about how awesomely he sets things up for the rest of the team. You're talking about "if people weren't dumb," but you mention a situation that only occurs in first 10-15 min of the game. TF's ult is devastating in team fights and nobody else compares to what he brings to the table. Only Sivir with her move/attack speed ult are slightly comparable, but at least she has to be there to get her ult to work. TF's is global which just makes it that much more wtf.
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On February 20 2010 05:05 Southlight wrote:
TF at least needs to have no stun capability. It's that "free" CC (cuz no top TF player misses any/many gold cards) that pushes him over the top IMO. Furion in DotA had the same sort of teleport mechanism (his ult was also a global damage skill) but he was nowhere near as devastating because his only CC skill you could eat out of, thus making it mostly useless against decent players.
Is my thought, anyways.
Lack of CC would also probably wreck his laning strength, and turn him into more of a one-trick pony, but that one-trick (Gate) is so strong that it'd make him at least balanced.
Haha until Furion farmed guinsoo T_T
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btw im jw what should my twitch build be? i go malady-boots(whichecer ones i feel necessary)-blacl cleaver- execs. calling- inf. edge- banshess veil (the order of the last 2 is sometimes switched) and im rune stacked for pure attack speed
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Marshall Islands3404 Posts
so are we talking about imbalanced team comps or TF? because TF just brings the slow to the table, and there are many, many champs that have AOE slows so i could just say replace tf with gangplank or amumu or anivia or whatever and it would be the same thing. I doubt its his slow people complain about.
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I think the sole reason Tf is so OP is gate. Maybe if they fixed it to be more like a teleport where you can go to a minion or a turret, and not make it 1.5 second cast with his ulti
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On February 20 2010 12:50 Brees wrote:
so are we talking about imbalanced team comps or TF? because TF just brings the slow to the table, and there are many, many champs that have AOE slows so i could just say replace tf with gangplank or amumu or anivia or whatever and it would be the same thing. I doubt its his slow people complain about.
GP's ult is nowhere near as hardcore as TF's ult for rather obv reasons -_-.
TF's ult works on the ENTIRE team, ALWAYS. It slows them, it REVEALS them, and it doesn't have to be in a circle. These are huge advantages that I don't think even need to be explained. I don't think you'll find a single top level player who will say TF is not the most imba hero.
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On February 20 2010 11:23 StorkHwaiting wrote:Show nested quote +On February 19 2010 16:58 Mogwai wrote:
lol
so I played and bunch of Pantheon tonight and I'm starting to dig doing boots first with utility tree masteries up to the speed boost (3 perserverence, 1 haste, 4 awareness, 3 meditation, 1 greed, 3 quickness). You start with 391 speed this way which is really nice and liberating from playing the usually slow early game. Meditation is also really all the mana regen you need to be able to judicially chuck spears in the early game. I can't spam like I did in my meki pendant days, but in the long run it seems like going boots -> B. F. Sword gets you up to effective ganking/chasing speed fastest.
I see a lot of Pantheons go long sword first, but I think boots will play out better more often as you get 2 extra healing potions and you need boots before B. F. Sword anyway to be an effective ganker/chaser (whereas long sword forces you to go brutalizer which is pretty meh for cost effectiveness compared to BF Swords for doing burst q-w-e/w-e-q damage). I go boots first with pots and some mana regen runes. But I go brutalizer after boots just because of how spammable it makes heartseeker. -10% CD for some reason makes a big impact for my panth games. I go merc treads after brutalizer, then go for BTs. I think both ways are doable though. I just prefer brutalizer because of how quickly it allows me to farm lanes/jungle/gank. Panth really becomes a monster farmer once he gets some -CD with his heartseeker.
I've done quite a bit of -CD with pantheon, and I dunno, 20 second base CD on heartseeker puts it in an awkward place for halfassing CD reduction. like, -10% from brutalize + maybe -10% from glyphs (which I wouldn't recommend anyway, but I've done it because I don't have the IP to go to mana regen or magic resist) puts you at 16 second CD vs. 20 second CD which is nice, but not worth the missed runes or the reduced damage efficiency (1 dmg/53gold on brutalizer vs. 1dmg/37 gold on BF Swords) IMO since it's still far from spammable.
I guess I just find stacking the most efficient damage items possible to work best with my playstyle as I tend to play pantheon as a jungler/ganker/chaser in the mid game and only really farm lanes when I use my ult to save a tower. With this, I don't care about CD redux because all I need to be able to do is q-w-e and activate ghost to chase for my auto-crit one hit if they're getting away.
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On February 20 2010 12:50 Brees wrote:
so are we talking about imbalanced team comps or TF? because TF just brings the slow to the table, and there are many, many champs that have AOE slows so i could just say replace tf with gangplank or amumu or anivia or whatever and it would be the same thing. I doubt its his slow people complain about.
Once TF gets to level 6 noone dares to do anything stupid if hes MIA. he has strong control over his opponent because of destiny and gate. if top or bot gets in a fight TF can just port in and make a 2v2 into a 2v3 or 3v3 to 3v4.wild cards and his pick a card are 5sec cd and they are very strong. then the problem with how gold card can stun ANYTHING. banshees veil/ sivir shield.
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Do you goys think that simply nerfing gate fixes TF??
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On February 20 2010 16:17 mptj wrote:
Do you goys think that simply nerfing gate fixes TF??
Destiny is the problem way more than gate. You can SEE gates and walk away in time. It's the destiny that screws you.
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On February 20 2010 15:15 Mogwai wrote:Show nested quote +On February 20 2010 11:23 StorkHwaiting wrote:On February 19 2010 16:58 Mogwai wrote:
lol
so I played and bunch of Pantheon tonight and I'm starting to dig doing boots first with utility tree masteries up to the speed boost (3 perserverence, 1 haste, 4 awareness, 3 meditation, 1 greed, 3 quickness). You start with 391 speed this way which is really nice and liberating from playing the usually slow early game. Meditation is also really all the mana regen you need to be able to judicially chuck spears in the early game. I can't spam like I did in my meki pendant days, but in the long run it seems like going boots -> B. F. Sword gets you up to effective ganking/chasing speed fastest.
I see a lot of Pantheons go long sword first, but I think boots will play out better more often as you get 2 extra healing potions and you need boots before B. F. Sword anyway to be an effective ganker/chaser (whereas long sword forces you to go brutalizer which is pretty meh for cost effectiveness compared to BF Swords for doing burst q-w-e/w-e-q damage). I go boots first with pots and some mana regen runes. But I go brutalizer after boots just because of how spammable it makes heartseeker. -10% CD for some reason makes a big impact for my panth games. I go merc treads after brutalizer, then go for BTs. I think both ways are doable though. I just prefer brutalizer because of how quickly it allows me to farm lanes/jungle/gank. Panth really becomes a monster farmer once he gets some -CD with his heartseeker. I've done quite a bit of -CD with pantheon, and I dunno, 20 second base CD on heartseeker puts it in an awkward place for halfassing CD reduction. like, -10% from brutalize + maybe -10% from glyphs (which I wouldn't recommend anyway, but I've done it because I don't have the IP to go to mana regen or magic resist) puts you at 16 second CD vs. 20 second CD which is nice, but not worth the missed runes or the reduced damage efficiency (1 dmg/53gold on brutalizer vs. 1dmg/37 gold on BF Swords) IMO since it's still far from spammable. I guess I just find stacking the most efficient damage items possible to work best with my playstyle as I tend to play pantheon as a jungler/ganker/chaser in the mid game and only really farm lanes when I use my ult to save a tower. With this, I don't care about CD redux because all I need to be able to do is q-w-e and activate ghost to chase for my auto-crit one hit if they're getting away.
Good points mogwai. I think for me it might even be the incremental gains. Like that looong bridge of 1850 gold in the early game just hurts so bad. Whereas I can pay down 415 and get an extra +10 right away. So I can continue doing things kind of streamlined, heartseeker wiping out whole creep waves in one cast, continuing to do solid dmg w/ spear harass in lane etc. I think it's just that long gap where it's early game building up 1850 gold that scares me.
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United States47024 Posts
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So my main strategy for cho lately has been going solo mid with smite and taking qeqeqr, jungling the wraiths on both sides every time they're up and last-hitting every creep with rupture/spines and smite on the tower creep, then going rod merc's treads rod banshee's force, but I played against a cho the other day that went soulstealer first and proceeded to wreck my team with sick feasts. He was fully stacked out on mejai's with a rod, lich bane, and zhonya's late game and I think I might start doing something similar to that. Dunno if I'm going to take lich, but do you guys have any thoughts on that? When I go double rod my spines hit for more than my regular attack does. Maybe a lich bane would triple that.
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On February 20 2010 23:41 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote:
So my main strategy for cho lately has been going solo mid with smite and taking qeqeqr, jungling the wraiths on both sides every time they're up and last-hitting every creep with rupture/spines and smite on the tower creep, then going rod merc's treads rod banshee's force, but I played against a cho the other day that went soulstealer first and proceeded to wreck my team with sick feasts. He was fully stacked out on mejai's with a rod, lich bane, and zhonya's late game and I think I might start doing something similar to that. Dunno if I'm going to take lich, but do you guys have any thoughts on that? When I go double rod my spines hit for more than my regular attack does. Maybe a lich bane would triple that.
The better your team's doing, the more AP you can get away with. If you're not already doing well though, going mejai can be a big gamble. If you get a lucky streak though, a Cho who gets fast mejai stacks can end a game.
Also, how is it that you're able to walk around farming the other team's wraiths? Going in the other team's jungle vs good players is usually a good way to get killed, as they usually have a jungler and their mid solo will go help gank.
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I've mainly been playing Trynd and lost a lot with him.
But now I'm playing Blitzcrank and DAMN he is good. Won 12 and lost 4 with him. Crazy shit.
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Blitz is hella lot of fun to play, but i get pissed when i have a bad game with him :p
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On February 21 2010 01:49 StorkHwaiting wrote:Show nested quote +On February 20 2010 23:41 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote:
So my main strategy for cho lately has been going solo mid with smite and taking qeqeqr, jungling the wraiths on both sides every time they're up and last-hitting every creep with rupture/spines and smite on the tower creep, then going rod merc's treads rod banshee's force, but I played against a cho the other day that went soulstealer first and proceeded to wreck my team with sick feasts. He was fully stacked out on mejai's with a rod, lich bane, and zhonya's late game and I think I might start doing something similar to that. Dunno if I'm going to take lich, but do you guys have any thoughts on that? When I go double rod my spines hit for more than my regular attack does. Maybe a lich bane would triple that. The better your team's doing, the more AP you can get away with. If you're not already doing well though, going mejai can be a big gamble. If you get a lucky streak though, a Cho who gets fast mejai stacks can end a game. Also, how is it that you're able to walk around farming the other team's wraiths? Going in the other team's jungle vs good players is usually a good way to get killed, as they usually have a jungler and their mid solo will go help gank.
I take flash and smite and cho 2-shots the wraiths (i.e. all 4 of them die in two swings total) with a good rupture and a spine hit once on a small one and once on the big one. If I see the other team's mid coming I rupture them instead and engage a fight, not many mid solo characters can 1v1 cho after I land a sick rupture. When I play against someone who can steal the wraiths I mix it up and delay the timing until they're far enough away to let me kill or until they do it and trigger wraith aggro, screwing them. I know if they jungle obviously and won't go on their side if they do. Also flash across walls and rupture the spot where they would flash is huge.
The wraiths are the ones that are next to the mid lane, you know this right? The first thing I do solo mid is rupture at 1:39 to hit them all, smite the big one, and take out the small ones. It puts me at enough XP so that I hit level 2 off of two minion kills and then suddenly the other team's level 1 carry is facing a level 2 cho with full HP on the first wave.
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EPT
