She's not too bad in real games, she feels a bit like Udyr/Yi/Blitz/etc., those heroes that are very strong in capable hands and mediocre in stupid hands. Her devastating blow needs a nerf (it's not working as intended I think?). Udyr needs a slight tweak to Phoenix Stance (thing's like Jax's Ult, Yi's Passive Skill, and Sunfire Cape all in one) but you see enough crappy Udyr players to know he's not broken.

Practice games are just meh unless you're absolutely sure you're playing against quality competition - the only practice games I really consider any useful for telling hero quality are games I play against people like Baikin. I've gone legendary with AP Soraka in practice games :p

inertinept

Bangladesh1195 Posts

January 19 2010 20:20 GMT

#723

AP rammus

Southlight

United States11768 Posts

January 19 2010 20:27 GMT

#724

Would AP Rammus actually even be that bad? Hahah. Dunno how the AP scales with his skills :D

Brees

Marshall Islands3404 Posts

January 19 2010 23:59 GMT

#725

not sure....powerball nuke, increased magic damage with defense curl and possible increased tremor damage(not sure on that one) but he wouldnt survive very long lol

Southlight

United States11768 Posts

January 20 2010 00:19 GMT

#726

If you go Rod of Ages he might be able to survive alright? Hahahahah. Tremor scales with AP, and it has a decent cooldown speed (60 seconds? + cooldown runes mine tends to come back fast) so it's what I was thinking about mainly.

b3h47pte

United States1317 Posts

January 20 2010 03:56 GMT

#727

On January 20 2010 05:20 inertinept wrote:
AP rammus

Eh. Someone got banned O-o
Weird. lol

ZERG_RUSSIAN

10417 Posts

January 20 2010 08:17 GMT

#728

Seriously, Udyr and Poppy are so overpowered at the high ELOs that it's damn near impossible to win if you're playing against them without them on your team. Riot is in the process of nerfing them as we speak.

jtype

England2167 Posts

January 20 2010 08:34 GMT

#729

On January 20 2010 05:27 Southlight wrote:
Would AP Rammus actually even be that bad? Hahah. Dunno how the AP scales with his skills :D

Scales pretty well actually.

I tried this out in a couple of games, and it was pretty impressive. Powerball hits for massive damage, defensive curl returns masses of damage to attackers, and Tremors can take towers down in seconds.

The main problems I had with it, was that a) people (on your team) expect you to tank, and cant get their heads around the fact that you aren't, and b) Rammus has one of the most powerful CC spells in the game (Taunt), yet it will kill you to use it, despite the damage you return, as you don't have nearly enough survivability, if you want to stack lots of AP.

All in all, a gimmicky build, but fun to surprise people with.

koleen

Netherlands97 Posts

January 20 2010 08:44 GMT

#730

You realy like weird ass ramus builds don't you? AP rammus, Jungle rammus...

ZERG_RUSSIAN

10417 Posts

January 20 2010 09:05 GMT

#731

Okay, I haven't won a single game against an udyr without a better one on my team.

He's the best tank/dps/stunner with built in lifesteal in the whole game.

jtype

England2167 Posts

January 20 2010 10:17 GMT

#732

On January 20 2010 17:44 koleen wrote:
You realy like weird ass ramus builds don't you? AP rammus, Jungle rammus...

Me? I never did jungle rammus..

But I must admit, I do like experimenting with unusual builds.

Southlight

United States11768 Posts

January 20 2010 11:36 GMT

#733

I did jungle Rammus.

mptj

United States485 Posts

January 20 2010 11:45 GMT

#734

yea Udyr MUST be getting a nerf. I mean, with turtle stance he has virtual unlimited mana and unlimited health. Not to mention bear stance makes his movement s[eeds one of the best in the game. And lets not forget the built in stun...

jtype

England2167 Posts

January 20 2010 11:58 GMT

#735

Yeah, the dude is crazy right now. Impossible to chase him down with bear stance.

Southlight

United States11768 Posts

January 20 2010 12:08 GMT

#736

Turtle Stance is pretty weak IMO, it's mostly Phoenix Stance that's too strong. Bear Stance actually got nerfed since the last patch, so that's not what's made him crazy (turtle stance had no change). When I play Udyr I only get two Turtle early on for jungling - if I go three I almost always have a bad game. That said I'd still play him even if Phoenix Stance gets hit hard (I'd just switch to Tiger Stance), but it's Phoenix that's pushing him over the top right now.

Why:
At level 9 (level 5 phoenix)
You get +36 damage
and the phoenix explosion-thingy that procs every 3 hits (as opposed to 4 from Jax's ult!) does about 200 AoE, which means right there it goes like 70 dps on average.
But wait, that's not all, because you get the 40-damage-ish sunfire aura, too!

So at level 9 this one skill gives you close to 110 + 36x(attackspeed) dps.

Not to mention a decently-farmed Udyr at level 9 will have Greaves and Malady, so you'll start whacking at 110 + (36+base damage)x(attackspeed) + malady dps, on top of the attack speed from those two items. Then you add in the 12% attack speed from Monkey Agility and (stacks to 24% I think, when you swap Bear/Phoenix) you get why his DPS is absurd because of that one skill.

That's why Udyr's insane right now, not Turtle/Bear stance. That's why you can get away with going Greaves -> Malady -> Frozen and still output more damage than any other hero.

The odd thing is that before this patch the only difference was that Phoenix didn't give +36 damage; is that making THIS big of a difference, or did no one simply realize how strong Udyr was before.

Flakes

United States3125 Posts

January 20 2010 12:59 GMT

#737

It's not just phoenix stance, it's the reduced cooldown between stance-dancing combined with his passive. Also, phoenix gives a short buff to AP, which benefits your turtle's shield if you go from phoenix to turtle

koleen

Netherlands97 Posts

January 20 2010 13:00 GMT

#738

On January 20 2010 19:17 jtype wrote:
Me? I never did jungle rammus..

But I must admit, I do like experimenting with unusual builds.

Sorry, was indeed talking to Southlight

Southlight

United States11768 Posts

January 20 2010 15:23 GMT

#739

Reduced cooldown between stance dancing hardly applies, I feel, until at late-game when your standing DPS begins to trump the phoenix triple hit (max dancing = you can dance three stances, but the time between stances is such that you'll usually only be able to get two hits in). You don't have the mana for it to be much of a factor for quite some time, even with golem buff, and against decent teams I find myself being denied golem buff most of the time anyways. Is how I feel, anyways. A nerfed Phoenix would severely dampen Udyr's DPS output and would revert him more to a semi-tank stunner ala Sion again.