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On September 23 2012 01:17 paralleluniverse wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2012 00:59 shabby wrote:On September 23 2012 00:40 paralleluniverse wrote:On September 23 2012 00:36 shabby wrote:On September 22 2012 23:43 paralleluniverse wrote:On September 22 2012 23:42 [17]Purple wrote:
I still don't understand why paralleluniverse seems to insist that a game lacking replayablity makes it bad, perhaps that's his subjective opinion but why try to enjoy a game which does not have what makes it enjoyable for you? If what you find enjoyable is having some sort of arbitrary endgame that extends the lifespan of your [insert price here] game by well over the value other forms of entertainment then one cannot go wrong by continuing to play the game with the higher replayablity value if that is what one truly enjoys. Because it doesn't have to be this way. See D2. It has a endgame. TL2 is randomized so you can play it over again. Also, there is more content than D2 "endgame", because you can use portal scrolls etc. In addition I think I read something about something unlocking when you finish the game, so you could keep playing. ALSO, this game is openly moddable, so endless content will be added just like for TL1. I've already address those points here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=103417¤tpage=21#410There is no point in doing any of those things, as the above post explains. Alright. 1. You say that there is no economy. Why? You can trade items just like in Diablo 2. It is your problem if you choose to trade with modded items that make the game imbalanced. That is you cheating, and then complaining it ruins your experience. 2. You claim that having more dungeons and items to gather is not an endgame? What endgame do you expect? PVP? If it is not added by runic someone will probably add an Arena mod. This mod could easily inspect anyone joining to see if they have custom items or if everything was looted legit. If they are not legit, don't duel them. 3. You are under the impression that because you can "mod" any item, there is no point to play? You can say that for all games, because you can cheat if you like. If you think the possibility of modding and cheating undermines your experience, then I don't know what to say. You will never enjoy any game other than a MMO again. 4. You claim that mods kill the game because they are amateurish. Then you should do more research before downloading a mod, I suppose. I usually only download the ones that are good and add the stuff I want (for example new classes, more dungeons etc) 5. You paid something like $20 for idk, at least 20 hours of content. That beats 99% of all other single player games out there where you pay $50-60 for 5-8 hours. 6. The game just came out, there will be patches, they've promised more free content, and if people feel the same way you do, they will just mod the game to allow for whatever endgame you desire. Or you could mod it yourself. 1. Because there's no one to trade with. Do you see trading games in TL2. No? That's because no one wants to trade given (1) they can mod the items themselves, (2) the items in the trade may be modded, (3) the game is pretty easy, (4) hell, they can even mod the game so that they don't need items at all. Items have no value, there is no reason to want items from other players, so no one trades, so there is no economy. 2. There' is no point to grind the "endgame" maps. Why do them? For items? Items have no value, see 1. 3. Modding doesn't necessarily mean there's no reason to play. But modding items means there's reason to play for items or for anything related to items. So why play at all after beating the game once or twice? I see no point to continue playing after that. Mod aren't that fun, just look at SC2 and WC3, most maps are amateur and badly balanced, not worth playing. 4. How can you mod in a economy? Can you mod in fair PvP, given that that anyone can mod their characters to do 1 trillion damage? The problem is you can't mod mods out of the the game, so it's not possible to mod in an economy and mod in character based PvP. The only possible sort of PvP would be like DotA or Counter-Strike style, where everyone must used a standardized character. But even that's probably going to get speed hacked or something. 5. I don't buy those shit games you're referring to. I agree the game is worth $20, but probably no more than that. As I've said, I bought TL2, and I'm having fun. It's a fun game and mostly well-designed game. 6. So what?
1. Again, you make very hasty assumptions. The game has been out for 2 days now, and you say there is no trading economy, it must be because of modding and cheating! No, it is because people are lvl 5-30, and no one has any interest in trading yet. There will surely pop up a trading thread once people reach higher levels, probably on many forums.
2. Like I tried to explain, items have value unless you choose to cheat. If you choose to cheat, then sure, that's your problem, but for me, a set item that I need does have value. You could also grind the gear needed to beat the game on Elite Hardcore, which is probably very hard and would need preparation and the right gear ready.
3. Again, you say that items are worthless because of modding, but you could just NOT use, trade or mod your items, which would give the regular items their value back. No one is forcing imbalanced items into your gameplay, that choice is yours.
4. Fair pvp could be achieved by making players able to inspect each other, or the "arena mod" detecting if the other player has ever used mods, or is currently using. It could also compare his items and skills to the game database. I'm sure there are plenty of ways to do it, I'm no programmer.
5. Good to hear you're enjoying the game and you think it was worth your money.
6. So it is silly to whine about an endgame after 2 days. Diablo 2 did not have one, WoW did not have one, most games do not have one when they come out. It's not necessarily excusable, but it is definitely normal.
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I think a PvP mod could go the Guild Wars 2 route and just give you access to every high level item so it comes down to skill and item choice, with no grind required.
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On September 23 2012 01:25 Caphe wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2012 01:04 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:If you ever get a Steam sync error make sure you press the local files button. Fuck me I just lost everything I played yesterday  Yeah, this too. I was out of syn yesterday, luckily I press the upload local file. Also, this game is not getting enough attention. I mean we got all kind of shit going on while D3 was released. Promote this game more, recommend it to strangers(obv you should recommend it to your friends  ) Just met a friend of my friend today and after 10 mins of ads from me, he bought the game . And, I got one-shooted at the end of ACT 2 elite with my Embermage . How do you guys build your Mage? I am going mainly Fire, my DPS is good but it reply on DOT alot, I can't burst down stuff quick enough w/o going oom like every 20secs.
Yeah. Just disabled steam cloud. Not like I play this on another computer and actually need it. Gotta reroll again now though. Not playing my engy without that super badass weapon I gambled yesterday. That and I played all day yesterday so I lost an act+ of clear ^_^
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I know I should not reply to parallel, but I just want to clear something up.
I traded quite a few items with people that I play with on the internet. I think soon enough there will be a website or a thread on reddit for trading. Is it how its done in the day of D2?
Also, this game is worth more than $20, really I feel like I am robbing Runic, I could name a very long list of $50-$60 that you can finish in like 7-8 hours and never look back.
Why are you so obssed with all this "end-game" stuff? Game doesn't need want to be good. But I am pretty sure with modding around, there will be some awesome mod that keep people coming back for more. Thats your end-game right there.
This is my first reply to you troll and will be my last one. Have fun!
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Paralleluniverse is oficially this thread's ZeroSC2.
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On September 23 2012 01:39 Caphe wrote:
Also, this game is worth more than $20, really I feel like I am robbing Runic
Lol, yeah. For $20 I got TL1+TL2 on steam. That's what I call a bargain.
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If you want to look at Torchlight 2 endgame just look at D2 Open Bnet.
No such thing exists.
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On September 23 2012 01:39 Caphe wrote:
I know I should not reply to parallel, but I just want to clear something up.
I traded quite a few items with people that I play with on the internet. I think soon enough there will be a website or a thread on reddit for trading. Is it how its done in the day of D2?
Also, this game is worth more than $20, really I feel like I am robbing Runic, I could name a very long list of $50-$60 that you can finish in like 7-8 hours and never look back.
Why are you so obssed with all this "end-game" stuff? Game doesn't need want to be good. But I am pretty sure with modding around, there will be some awesome mod that keep people coming back for more. Thats your end-game right there.
This is my first reply to you troll and will be my last one. Have fun!
Quoting to say that I did the same thing. I had steam friends asking me to either trade or reserve items for them.
And we're still 20-40 levels. Just imagine in 90+, trading will be rampant.
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And double posting cause in the prerelease Q&A on reddit they said that "we're looking very srsly at the closed servers issue, no decision has being made but no plans for it yet".
So they may as well add them in the future.
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On September 23 2012 01:25 shabby wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2012 01:17 paralleluniverse wrote:On September 23 2012 00:59 shabby wrote:On September 23 2012 00:40 paralleluniverse wrote:On September 23 2012 00:36 shabby wrote:On September 22 2012 23:43 paralleluniverse wrote:On September 22 2012 23:42 [17]Purple wrote:
I still don't understand why paralleluniverse seems to insist that a game lacking replayablity makes it bad, perhaps that's his subjective opinion but why try to enjoy a game which does not have what makes it enjoyable for you? If what you find enjoyable is having some sort of arbitrary endgame that extends the lifespan of your [insert price here] game by well over the value other forms of entertainment then one cannot go wrong by continuing to play the game with the higher replayablity value if that is what one truly enjoys. Because it doesn't have to be this way. See D2. It has a endgame. TL2 is randomized so you can play it over again. Also, there is more content than D2 "endgame", because you can use portal scrolls etc. In addition I think I read something about something unlocking when you finish the game, so you could keep playing. ALSO, this game is openly moddable, so endless content will be added just like for TL1. I've already address those points here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=103417¤tpage=21#410There is no point in doing any of those things, as the above post explains. Alright. 1. You say that there is no economy. Why? You can trade items just like in Diablo 2. It is your problem if you choose to trade with modded items that make the game imbalanced. That is you cheating, and then complaining it ruins your experience. 2. You claim that having more dungeons and items to gather is not an endgame? What endgame do you expect? PVP? If it is not added by runic someone will probably add an Arena mod. This mod could easily inspect anyone joining to see if they have custom items or if everything was looted legit. If they are not legit, don't duel them. 3. You are under the impression that because you can "mod" any item, there is no point to play? You can say that for all games, because you can cheat if you like. If you think the possibility of modding and cheating undermines your experience, then I don't know what to say. You will never enjoy any game other than a MMO again. 4. You claim that mods kill the game because they are amateurish. Then you should do more research before downloading a mod, I suppose. I usually only download the ones that are good and add the stuff I want (for example new classes, more dungeons etc) 5. You paid something like $20 for idk, at least 20 hours of content. That beats 99% of all other single player games out there where you pay $50-60 for 5-8 hours. 6. The game just came out, there will be patches, they've promised more free content, and if people feel the same way you do, they will just mod the game to allow for whatever endgame you desire. Or you could mod it yourself. 1. Because there's no one to trade with. Do you see trading games in TL2. No? That's because no one wants to trade given (1) they can mod the items themselves, (2) the items in the trade may be modded, (3) the game is pretty easy, (4) hell, they can even mod the game so that they don't need items at all. Items have no value, there is no reason to want items from other players, so no one trades, so there is no economy. 2. There' is no point to grind the "endgame" maps. Why do them? For items? Items have no value, see 1. 3. Modding doesn't necessarily mean there's no reason to play. But modding items means there's reason to play for items or for anything related to items. So why play at all after beating the game once or twice? I see no point to continue playing after that. Mod aren't that fun, just look at SC2 and WC3, most maps are amateur and badly balanced, not worth playing. 4. How can you mod in a economy? Can you mod in fair PvP, given that that anyone can mod their characters to do 1 trillion damage? The problem is you can't mod mods out of the the game, so it's not possible to mod in an economy and mod in character based PvP. The only possible sort of PvP would be like DotA or Counter-Strike style, where everyone must used a standardized character. But even that's probably going to get speed hacked or something. 5. I don't buy those shit games you're referring to. I agree the game is worth $20, but probably no more than that. As I've said, I bought TL2, and I'm having fun. It's a fun game and mostly well-designed game. 6. So what? 1. Again, you make very hasty assumptions. The game has been out for 2 days now, and you say there is no trading economy, it must be because of modding and cheating! No, it is because people are lvl 5-30, and no one has any interest in trading yet. There will surely pop up a trading thread once people reach higher levels, probably on many forums. 2. Like I tried to explain, items have value unless you choose to cheat. If you choose to cheat, then sure, that's your problem, but for me, a set item that I need does have value. You could also grind the gear needed to beat the game on Elite Hardcore, which is probably very hard and would need preparation and the right gear ready. 3. Again, you say that items are worthless because of modding, but you could just NOT use, trade or mod your items, which would give the regular items their value back. No one is forcing imbalanced items into your gameplay, that choice is yours. 4. Fair pvp could be achieved by making players able to inspect each other, or the "arena mod" detecting if the other player has ever used mods, or is currently using. It could also compare his items and skills to the game database. I'm sure there are plenty of ways to do it, I'm no programmer. 5. Good to hear you're enjoying the game and you think it was worth your money. 6. So it is silly to whine about an endgame after 2 days. Diablo 2 did not have one, WoW did not have one, most games do not have one when they come out. It's not necessarily excusable, but it is definitely normal.
Ever taken a course in economics?
The value of an item is what others are willing to pay for it. It's NOT what you think it's worth if you don't cheat. Value is derived from scarcity. There's no scarcity in TL2, you can have anything you want. So there is no value. In addition, how do you know if another player's items are legit?
There will be no economy because no one wants your items. How long should we wait before you accept that there will be no economy in TL2. 1 week? 1 month?
And you are soooooooo, so so so WRONG, about WoW and D2 not having an endgame. They did have an endgame and they had one when the game first came out. Raiding for WoW, and trading and PvP for D2. There's nothing that TL2 can do to have an endgame with out a closed server. It's not possible, because of open servers and modding. Even if you are able to check if items, and stats and skills are valid for PvP, you cannot check that they were acquired legitimately. Hence, in order to do PvP with your suggestion, people would have to mod in the best possible gear that is legit to stand a chance.
User was warned for this post
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Congrats Torchlight II, you've beaten Borderlands 2 in my book.
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On September 23 2012 01:47 Steveling wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2012 01:39 Caphe wrote:
I know I should not reply to parallel, but I just want to clear something up.
I traded quite a few items with people that I play with on the internet. I think soon enough there will be a website or a thread on reddit for trading. Is it how its done in the day of D2?
Also, this game is worth more than $20, really I feel like I am robbing Runic, I could name a very long list of $50-$60 that you can finish in like 7-8 hours and never look back.
Why are you so obssed with all this "end-game" stuff? Game doesn't need want to be good. But I am pretty sure with modding around, there will be some awesome mod that keep people coming back for more. Thats your end-game right there.
This is my first reply to you troll and will be my last one. Have fun! Quoting to say that I did the same thing. I had steam friends asking me to either trade or reserve items for them. And we're still 20-40 levels. Just imagine in 90+, trading will be rampant.
No one's modding yet. Mod tools haven't been released.
When they do, you're "economy" will be tanked by infinite supply.
As I said in a earlier post, I do intend to enjoy this "cheat-free" period, while it lasts.
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On September 23 2012 01:50 paralleluniverse wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2012 01:25 shabby wrote:On September 23 2012 01:17 paralleluniverse wrote:On September 23 2012 00:59 shabby wrote:On September 23 2012 00:40 paralleluniverse wrote:On September 23 2012 00:36 shabby wrote:On September 22 2012 23:43 paralleluniverse wrote:On September 22 2012 23:42 [17]Purple wrote:
I still don't understand why paralleluniverse seems to insist that a game lacking replayablity makes it bad, perhaps that's his subjective opinion but why try to enjoy a game which does not have what makes it enjoyable for you? If what you find enjoyable is having some sort of arbitrary endgame that extends the lifespan of your [insert price here] game by well over the value other forms of entertainment then one cannot go wrong by continuing to play the game with the higher replayablity value if that is what one truly enjoys. Because it doesn't have to be this way. See D2. It has a endgame. TL2 is randomized so you can play it over again. Also, there is more content than D2 "endgame", because you can use portal scrolls etc. In addition I think I read something about something unlocking when you finish the game, so you could keep playing. ALSO, this game is openly moddable, so endless content will be added just like for TL1. I've already address those points here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=103417¤tpage=21#410There is no point in doing any of those things, as the above post explains. Alright. 1. You say that there is no economy. Why? You can trade items just like in Diablo 2. It is your problem if you choose to trade with modded items that make the game imbalanced. That is you cheating, and then complaining it ruins your experience. 2. You claim that having more dungeons and items to gather is not an endgame? What endgame do you expect? PVP? If it is not added by runic someone will probably add an Arena mod. This mod could easily inspect anyone joining to see if they have custom items or if everything was looted legit. If they are not legit, don't duel them. 3. You are under the impression that because you can "mod" any item, there is no point to play? You can say that for all games, because you can cheat if you like. If you think the possibility of modding and cheating undermines your experience, then I don't know what to say. You will never enjoy any game other than a MMO again. 4. You claim that mods kill the game because they are amateurish. Then you should do more research before downloading a mod, I suppose. I usually only download the ones that are good and add the stuff I want (for example new classes, more dungeons etc) 5. You paid something like $20 for idk, at least 20 hours of content. That beats 99% of all other single player games out there where you pay $50-60 for 5-8 hours. 6. The game just came out, there will be patches, they've promised more free content, and if people feel the same way you do, they will just mod the game to allow for whatever endgame you desire. Or you could mod it yourself. 1. Because there's no one to trade with. Do you see trading games in TL2. No? That's because no one wants to trade given (1) they can mod the items themselves, (2) the items in the trade may be modded, (3) the game is pretty easy, (4) hell, they can even mod the game so that they don't need items at all. Items have no value, there is no reason to want items from other players, so no one trades, so there is no economy. 2. There' is no point to grind the "endgame" maps. Why do them? For items? Items have no value, see 1. 3. Modding doesn't necessarily mean there's no reason to play. But modding items means there's reason to play for items or for anything related to items. So why play at all after beating the game once or twice? I see no point to continue playing after that. Mod aren't that fun, just look at SC2 and WC3, most maps are amateur and badly balanced, not worth playing. 4. How can you mod in a economy? Can you mod in fair PvP, given that that anyone can mod their characters to do 1 trillion damage? The problem is you can't mod mods out of the the game, so it's not possible to mod in an economy and mod in character based PvP. The only possible sort of PvP would be like DotA or Counter-Strike style, where everyone must used a standardized character. But even that's probably going to get speed hacked or something. 5. I don't buy those shit games you're referring to. I agree the game is worth $20, but probably no more than that. As I've said, I bought TL2, and I'm having fun. It's a fun game and mostly well-designed game. 6. So what? 1. Again, you make very hasty assumptions. The game has been out for 2 days now, and you say there is no trading economy, it must be because of modding and cheating! No, it is because people are lvl 5-30, and no one has any interest in trading yet. There will surely pop up a trading thread once people reach higher levels, probably on many forums. 2. Like I tried to explain, items have value unless you choose to cheat. If you choose to cheat, then sure, that's your problem, but for me, a set item that I need does have value. You could also grind the gear needed to beat the game on Elite Hardcore, which is probably very hard and would need preparation and the right gear ready. 3. Again, you say that items are worthless because of modding, but you could just NOT use, trade or mod your items, which would give the regular items their value back. No one is forcing imbalanced items into your gameplay, that choice is yours. 4. Fair pvp could be achieved by making players able to inspect each other, or the "arena mod" detecting if the other player has ever used mods, or is currently using. It could also compare his items and skills to the game database. I'm sure there are plenty of ways to do it, I'm no programmer. 5. Good to hear you're enjoying the game and you think it was worth your money. 6. So it is silly to whine about an endgame after 2 days. Diablo 2 did not have one, WoW did not have one, most games do not have one when they come out. It's not necessarily excusable, but it is definitely normal. Ever taken a course in economics? The value of an item is what others are willing to pay for it. It's NOT what you think it's worth if you don't cheat. Value is derived from scarcity. There's no scarcity in TL2, you can have anything you want. So there is no value. In addition, how do you know if another player's items are legit? There will be no economy because no one wants your items. How long should we wait before you accept that there will be no economy in TL2. 1 week? 1 month? And you are soooooooo, so so so WRONG, about WoW and D2 not having an endgame. They did have an endgame and they had one when the game first came out. Raiding for WoW, and trading and PvP for D2. There's nothing that TL2 can do to have an endgame with out a closed server. It's not possible, because of open servers and modding. Even if you are able to check if items, and stats and skills are valid for PvP, you cannot check that they were acquired legitimately. Hence, in order to do PvP with your suggestion, people would have to mod in the best possible gear that is legit to stand a chance.
youre hurting my brains, stop. TL2 was intended as a single player game with a chance to co-op with friends, is it that hard to understand? And cheating in single player is as dumb as it can get.
And no, d2 had no late game, you could bot every item for free, wasnt that hard. Go back to wow already.
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On September 23 2012 02:00 Novalisk wrote:
Congrats Torchlight II, you've beaten Borderlands 2 in my book.
Id agree, played borderlands non stop til T2 came out, now ive already got 10 hrs more on T2, and dont feel like playing B2 right now, just wanna keep building my engi.
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On September 23 2012 02:04 Artok wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2012 01:50 paralleluniverse wrote:On September 23 2012 01:25 shabby wrote:On September 23 2012 01:17 paralleluniverse wrote:On September 23 2012 00:59 shabby wrote:On September 23 2012 00:40 paralleluniverse wrote:On September 23 2012 00:36 shabby wrote:On September 22 2012 23:43 paralleluniverse wrote:On September 22 2012 23:42 [17]Purple wrote:
I still don't understand why paralleluniverse seems to insist that a game lacking replayablity makes it bad, perhaps that's his subjective opinion but why try to enjoy a game which does not have what makes it enjoyable for you? If what you find enjoyable is having some sort of arbitrary endgame that extends the lifespan of your [insert price here] game by well over the value other forms of entertainment then one cannot go wrong by continuing to play the game with the higher replayablity value if that is what one truly enjoys. Because it doesn't have to be this way. See D2. It has a endgame. TL2 is randomized so you can play it over again. Also, there is more content than D2 "endgame", because you can use portal scrolls etc. In addition I think I read something about something unlocking when you finish the game, so you could keep playing. ALSO, this game is openly moddable, so endless content will be added just like for TL1. I've already address those points here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=103417¤tpage=21#410There is no point in doing any of those things, as the above post explains. Alright. 1. You say that there is no economy. Why? You can trade items just like in Diablo 2. It is your problem if you choose to trade with modded items that make the game imbalanced. That is you cheating, and then complaining it ruins your experience. 2. You claim that having more dungeons and items to gather is not an endgame? What endgame do you expect? PVP? If it is not added by runic someone will probably add an Arena mod. This mod could easily inspect anyone joining to see if they have custom items or if everything was looted legit. If they are not legit, don't duel them. 3. You are under the impression that because you can "mod" any item, there is no point to play? You can say that for all games, because you can cheat if you like. If you think the possibility of modding and cheating undermines your experience, then I don't know what to say. You will never enjoy any game other than a MMO again. 4. You claim that mods kill the game because they are amateurish. Then you should do more research before downloading a mod, I suppose. I usually only download the ones that are good and add the stuff I want (for example new classes, more dungeons etc) 5. You paid something like $20 for idk, at least 20 hours of content. That beats 99% of all other single player games out there where you pay $50-60 for 5-8 hours. 6. The game just came out, there will be patches, they've promised more free content, and if people feel the same way you do, they will just mod the game to allow for whatever endgame you desire. Or you could mod it yourself. 1. Because there's no one to trade with. Do you see trading games in TL2. No? That's because no one wants to trade given (1) they can mod the items themselves, (2) the items in the trade may be modded, (3) the game is pretty easy, (4) hell, they can even mod the game so that they don't need items at all. Items have no value, there is no reason to want items from other players, so no one trades, so there is no economy. 2. There' is no point to grind the "endgame" maps. Why do them? For items? Items have no value, see 1. 3. Modding doesn't necessarily mean there's no reason to play. But modding items means there's reason to play for items or for anything related to items. So why play at all after beating the game once or twice? I see no point to continue playing after that. Mod aren't that fun, just look at SC2 and WC3, most maps are amateur and badly balanced, not worth playing. 4. How can you mod in a economy? Can you mod in fair PvP, given that that anyone can mod their characters to do 1 trillion damage? The problem is you can't mod mods out of the the game, so it's not possible to mod in an economy and mod in character based PvP. The only possible sort of PvP would be like DotA or Counter-Strike style, where everyone must used a standardized character. But even that's probably going to get speed hacked or something. 5. I don't buy those shit games you're referring to. I agree the game is worth $20, but probably no more than that. As I've said, I bought TL2, and I'm having fun. It's a fun game and mostly well-designed game. 6. So what? 1. Again, you make very hasty assumptions. The game has been out for 2 days now, and you say there is no trading economy, it must be because of modding and cheating! No, it is because people are lvl 5-30, and no one has any interest in trading yet. There will surely pop up a trading thread once people reach higher levels, probably on many forums. 2. Like I tried to explain, items have value unless you choose to cheat. If you choose to cheat, then sure, that's your problem, but for me, a set item that I need does have value. You could also grind the gear needed to beat the game on Elite Hardcore, which is probably very hard and would need preparation and the right gear ready. 3. Again, you say that items are worthless because of modding, but you could just NOT use, trade or mod your items, which would give the regular items their value back. No one is forcing imbalanced items into your gameplay, that choice is yours. 4. Fair pvp could be achieved by making players able to inspect each other, or the "arena mod" detecting if the other player has ever used mods, or is currently using. It could also compare his items and skills to the game database. I'm sure there are plenty of ways to do it, I'm no programmer. 5. Good to hear you're enjoying the game and you think it was worth your money. 6. So it is silly to whine about an endgame after 2 days. Diablo 2 did not have one, WoW did not have one, most games do not have one when they come out. It's not necessarily excusable, but it is definitely normal. Ever taken a course in economics? The value of an item is what others are willing to pay for it. It's NOT what you think it's worth if you don't cheat. Value is derived from scarcity. There's no scarcity in TL2, you can have anything you want. So there is no value. In addition, how do you know if another player's items are legit? There will be no economy because no one wants your items. How long should we wait before you accept that there will be no economy in TL2. 1 week? 1 month? And you are soooooooo, so so so WRONG, about WoW and D2 not having an endgame. They did have an endgame and they had one when the game first came out. Raiding for WoW, and trading and PvP for D2. There's nothing that TL2 can do to have an endgame with out a closed server. It's not possible, because of open servers and modding. Even if you are able to check if items, and stats and skills are valid for PvP, you cannot check that they were acquired legitimately. Hence, in order to do PvP with your suggestion, people would have to mod in the best possible gear that is legit to stand a chance. youre hurting my brains stop. TL2 was intended as single player game with a chance to co-op with friends, is it that hard to understand? And cheating in single player is as dumb as it can get. And no, d2 had no late game, you could bot every item for free, wasnt that hard. Go back to wow already.
But his argument is that there will be an economy. So you're saying it's OK that there isn't because you can just play with your group of very trusted friends who would never cheat?
And why were there trading and PK games in D2?
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Parrallelunivers , wtf are you doing playing a game that you obviously are trying super hard not to enjoy?
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On September 23 2012 02:08 paralleluniverse wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2012 02:04 Artok wrote:On September 23 2012 01:50 paralleluniverse wrote:On September 23 2012 01:25 shabby wrote:On September 23 2012 01:17 paralleluniverse wrote:On September 23 2012 00:59 shabby wrote:On September 23 2012 00:40 paralleluniverse wrote:On September 23 2012 00:36 shabby wrote:On September 22 2012 23:43 paralleluniverse wrote:On September 22 2012 23:42 [17]Purple wrote:
I still don't understand why paralleluniverse seems to insist that a game lacking replayablity makes it bad, perhaps that's his subjective opinion but why try to enjoy a game which does not have what makes it enjoyable for you? If what you find enjoyable is having some sort of arbitrary endgame that extends the lifespan of your [insert price here] game by well over the value other forms of entertainment then one cannot go wrong by continuing to play the game with the higher replayablity value if that is what one truly enjoys. Because it doesn't have to be this way. See D2. It has a endgame. TL2 is randomized so you can play it over again. Also, there is more content than D2 "endgame", because you can use portal scrolls etc. In addition I think I read something about something unlocking when you finish the game, so you could keep playing. ALSO, this game is openly moddable, so endless content will be added just like for TL1. I've already address those points here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=103417¤tpage=21#410There is no point in doing any of those things, as the above post explains. Alright. 1. You say that there is no economy. Why? You can trade items just like in Diablo 2. It is your problem if you choose to trade with modded items that make the game imbalanced. That is you cheating, and then complaining it ruins your experience. 2. You claim that having more dungeons and items to gather is not an endgame? What endgame do you expect? PVP? If it is not added by runic someone will probably add an Arena mod. This mod could easily inspect anyone joining to see if they have custom items or if everything was looted legit. If they are not legit, don't duel them. 3. You are under the impression that because you can "mod" any item, there is no point to play? You can say that for all games, because you can cheat if you like. If you think the possibility of modding and cheating undermines your experience, then I don't know what to say. You will never enjoy any game other than a MMO again. 4. You claim that mods kill the game because they are amateurish. Then you should do more research before downloading a mod, I suppose. I usually only download the ones that are good and add the stuff I want (for example new classes, more dungeons etc) 5. You paid something like $20 for idk, at least 20 hours of content. That beats 99% of all other single player games out there where you pay $50-60 for 5-8 hours. 6. The game just came out, there will be patches, they've promised more free content, and if people feel the same way you do, they will just mod the game to allow for whatever endgame you desire. Or you could mod it yourself. 1. Because there's no one to trade with. Do you see trading games in TL2. No? That's because no one wants to trade given (1) they can mod the items themselves, (2) the items in the trade may be modded, (3) the game is pretty easy, (4) hell, they can even mod the game so that they don't need items at all. Items have no value, there is no reason to want items from other players, so no one trades, so there is no economy. 2. There' is no point to grind the "endgame" maps. Why do them? For items? Items have no value, see 1. 3. Modding doesn't necessarily mean there's no reason to play. But modding items means there's reason to play for items or for anything related to items. So why play at all after beating the game once or twice? I see no point to continue playing after that. Mod aren't that fun, just look at SC2 and WC3, most maps are amateur and badly balanced, not worth playing. 4. How can you mod in a economy? Can you mod in fair PvP, given that that anyone can mod their characters to do 1 trillion damage? The problem is you can't mod mods out of the the game, so it's not possible to mod in an economy and mod in character based PvP. The only possible sort of PvP would be like DotA or Counter-Strike style, where everyone must used a standardized character. But even that's probably going to get speed hacked or something. 5. I don't buy those shit games you're referring to. I agree the game is worth $20, but probably no more than that. As I've said, I bought TL2, and I'm having fun. It's a fun game and mostly well-designed game. 6. So what? 1. Again, you make very hasty assumptions. The game has been out for 2 days now, and you say there is no trading economy, it must be because of modding and cheating! No, it is because people are lvl 5-30, and no one has any interest in trading yet. There will surely pop up a trading thread once people reach higher levels, probably on many forums. 2. Like I tried to explain, items have value unless you choose to cheat. If you choose to cheat, then sure, that's your problem, but for me, a set item that I need does have value. You could also grind the gear needed to beat the game on Elite Hardcore, which is probably very hard and would need preparation and the right gear ready. 3. Again, you say that items are worthless because of modding, but you could just NOT use, trade or mod your items, which would give the regular items their value back. No one is forcing imbalanced items into your gameplay, that choice is yours. 4. Fair pvp could be achieved by making players able to inspect each other, or the "arena mod" detecting if the other player has ever used mods, or is currently using. It could also compare his items and skills to the game database. I'm sure there are plenty of ways to do it, I'm no programmer. 5. Good to hear you're enjoying the game and you think it was worth your money. 6. So it is silly to whine about an endgame after 2 days. Diablo 2 did not have one, WoW did not have one, most games do not have one when they come out. It's not necessarily excusable, but it is definitely normal. Ever taken a course in economics? The value of an item is what others are willing to pay for it. It's NOT what you think it's worth if you don't cheat. Value is derived from scarcity. There's no scarcity in TL2, you can have anything you want. So there is no value. In addition, how do you know if another player's items are legit? There will be no economy because no one wants your items. How long should we wait before you accept that there will be no economy in TL2. 1 week? 1 month? And you are soooooooo, so so so WRONG, about WoW and D2 not having an endgame. They did have an endgame and they had one when the game first came out. Raiding for WoW, and trading and PvP for D2. There's nothing that TL2 can do to have an endgame with out a closed server. It's not possible, because of open servers and modding. Even if you are able to check if items, and stats and skills are valid for PvP, you cannot check that they were acquired legitimately. Hence, in order to do PvP with your suggestion, people would have to mod in the best possible gear that is legit to stand a chance. youre hurting my brains stop. TL2 was intended as single player game with a chance to co-op with friends, is it that hard to understand? And cheating in single player is as dumb as it can get. And no, d2 had no late game, you could bot every item for free, wasnt that hard. Go back to wow already. But his argument is that there will be an economy? So you're saying it OK that there isn't because you can just play with your group of very trusted friend who would never cheat? And why were there trading and PK games in D2?
There was botting and duping in D2. People still traded. Everyone used maphacks, there was still PVP, even though nova sorc teleported around and landed on top of you 100% of the time. Strange, don't you think? D2 was a mess until patch 1.12 or so and if you consider doing 1 raid once a week an endgame, then sure, WoW had it. The value of the item is what people will pay/trade it for, yes, but you seem to be under the impression that every single player out there will just mod the items they need, then throw the game away because they are done. I'll happily inform you that there are players here, just like in D2, that find it fun to equip their characters without cheating. We do play the games for fun, after all.
In TL1, your account was flagged when you modded, iirc. I'm sure there are smart people out there that can figure out a way to reduce some of the "cheating" as you call it, but most of us don't really care because we don't cheat.
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and then you realize he just likes arguing with people for the sake of arguing. Post history 100% disagreement. Achievement unlocked master troll.
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Is it just me or is the Vaults in ACT 2 a bit too hard? I'm farming money to gamble and get better items in order to do it...
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EPT
