• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 14:23
CEST 20:23
KST 03:23
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Tournament Spotlight: FEL Cracow 20259Power Rank - Esports World Cup 202577RSL Season 1 - Final Week9[ASL19] Finals Recap: Standing Tall15HomeStory Cup 27 - Info & Preview18
Community News
Google Play ASL (Season 20) Announced25BSL Team Wars - Bonyth, Dewalt, Hawk & Sziky teams10Weekly Cups (July 14-20): Final Check-up0Esports World Cup 2025 - Brackets Revealed19Weekly Cups (July 7-13): Classic continues to roll8
StarCraft 2
General
#1: Maru - Greatest Players of All Time Tournament Spotlight: FEL Cracow 2025 Power Rank - Esports World Cup 2025 I offer completely free coaching services What tournaments are world championships?
Tourneys
FEL Cracov 2025 (July 27) - $10,000 live event Esports World Cup 2025 $25,000 Streamerzone StarCraft Pro Series announced $5,000 WardiTV Summer Championship 2025 WardiTV Mondays
Strategy
How did i lose this ZvP, whats the proper response
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation #239 Bad Weather Mutation # 483 Kill Bot Wars Mutation # 482 Wheel of Misfortune Mutation # 481 Fear and Lava
Brood War
General
Google Play ASL (Season 20) Announced [Update] ShieldBattery: 2025 Redesign Dewalt's Show Matches in China BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ BW General Discussion
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL20] Non-Korean Championship 4x BSL + 4x China CSL Xiamen International Invitational [CSLPRO] It's CSLAN Season! - Last Chance
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers [G] Mineral Boosting Does 1 second matter in StarCraft?
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Total Annihilation Server - TAForever [MMORPG] Tree of Savior (Successor of Ragnarok) Path of Exile
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread UK Politics Mega-thread Stop Killing Games - European Citizens Initiative Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread
Fan Clubs
INnoVation Fan Club SKT1 Classic Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [\m/] Heavy Metal Thread Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Korean Music Discussion
Sports
Formula 1 Discussion 2024 - 2025 Football Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 NBA General Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Installation of Windows 10 suck at "just a moment" Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
TeamLiquid Team Shirt On Sale The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Ping To Win? Pings And Their…
TrAiDoS
momentary artworks from des…
tankgirl
from making sc maps to makin…
Husyelt
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Socialism Anyone?
GreenHorizons
Eight Anniversary as a TL…
Mizenhauer
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 818 users

Torchlight II - Page 45

Forum Index > General Games
Post a Reply
Prev 1 43 44 45 46 47 95 Next
TeamLiquid Steam Group for Torchlight 2
Steveling
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Greece10806 Posts
September 22 2012 17:18 GMT
#881
On September 23 2012 02:17 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:
and then you realize he just likes arguing with people for the sake of arguing. Post history 100% disagreement. Achievement unlocked master troll.


I also like how he ignored my post about the closed servers question in the Q&A.
So yeah, he's just trolling.
My dick has shrunk to the point where it looks like I have 3 balls.
Leth0
Profile Joined February 2012
856 Posts
September 22 2012 17:24 GMT
#882
From my experience so far (Elite mode , about halfway through act 2 it feels). I will be cruising along and still will be semi challenging and then I'll go into a dungeon or new area and the difficulty will spike up and it will be super challenging. Then I get a few levels , maybe a few pieces of gear, few skill ups and stats, and the difficulty evens out. I'm really enjoying the pacing so far, its perfect for me.

Fire Embermage , lvl 30 as of last night after defeated the

+ Show Spoiler +
Mechanist guy halfway in act 2 (cant remember his name)


And holy shit, can I just say I freaking love the boss fights in this game, always shitloads of minions and crazy spells, actually freaking having the ability for the player to dodge around them.
Novalisk
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Israel1818 Posts
September 22 2012 17:26 GMT
#883
Berserker is fun. Like REALLY fun.

Tip: Place 1 point into Savage Rush for your sprint and escape tool.
/commercial
paralleluniverse
Profile Joined July 2010
4065 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-09-22 17:31:58
September 22 2012 17:27 GMT
#884
On September 23 2012 02:16 shabby wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 23 2012 02:08 paralleluniverse wrote:
On September 23 2012 02:04 Artok wrote:
On September 23 2012 01:50 paralleluniverse wrote:
On September 23 2012 01:25 shabby wrote:
On September 23 2012 01:17 paralleluniverse wrote:
On September 23 2012 00:59 shabby wrote:
On September 23 2012 00:40 paralleluniverse wrote:
On September 23 2012 00:36 shabby wrote:
On September 22 2012 23:43 paralleluniverse wrote:
[quote]
Because it doesn't have to be this way. See D2. It has a endgame.


TL2 is randomized so you can play it over again. Also, there is more content than D2 "endgame", because you can use portal scrolls etc. In addition I think I read something about something unlocking when you finish the game, so you could keep playing. ALSO, this game is openly moddable, so endless content will be added just like for TL1.

I've already address those points here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=103417&currentpage=21#410

There is no point in doing any of those things, as the above post explains.


Alright.

1. You say that there is no economy. Why? You can trade items just like in Diablo 2. It is your problem if you choose to trade with modded items that make the game imbalanced. That is you cheating, and then complaining it ruins your experience.
2. You claim that having more dungeons and items to gather is not an endgame? What endgame do you expect? PVP? If it is not added by runic someone will probably add an Arena mod. This mod could easily inspect anyone joining to see if they have custom items or if everything was looted legit. If they are not legit, don't duel them.
3. You are under the impression that because you can "mod" any item, there is no point to play? You can say that for all games, because you can cheat if you like. If you think the possibility of modding and cheating undermines your experience, then I don't know what to say. You will never enjoy any game other than a MMO again.
4. You claim that mods kill the game because they are amateurish. Then you should do more research before downloading a mod, I suppose. I usually only download the ones that are good and add the stuff I want (for example new classes, more dungeons etc)
5. You paid something like $20 for idk, at least 20 hours of content. That beats 99% of all other single player games out there where you pay $50-60 for 5-8 hours.
6. The game just came out, there will be patches, they've promised more free content, and if people feel the same way you do, they will just mod the game to allow for whatever endgame you desire. Or you could mod it yourself.

1. Because there's no one to trade with. Do you see trading games in TL2. No? That's because no one wants to trade given (1) they can mod the items themselves, (2) the items in the trade may be modded, (3) the game is pretty easy, (4) hell, they can even mod the game so that they don't need items at all. Items have no value, there is no reason to want items from other players, so no one trades, so there is no economy.
2. There' is no point to grind the "endgame" maps. Why do them? For items? Items have no value, see 1.
3. Modding doesn't necessarily mean there's no reason to play. But modding items means there's reason to play for items or for anything related to items. So why play at all after beating the game once or twice? I see no point to continue playing after that. Mod aren't that fun, just look at SC2 and WC3, most maps are amateur and badly balanced, not worth playing.
4. How can you mod in a economy? Can you mod in fair PvP, given that that anyone can mod their characters to do 1 trillion damage? The problem is you can't mod mods out of the the game, so it's not possible to mod in an economy and mod in character based PvP. The only possible sort of PvP would be like DotA or Counter-Strike style, where everyone must used a standardized character. But even that's probably going to get speed hacked or something.
5. I don't buy those shit games you're referring to. I agree the game is worth $20, but probably no more than that. As I've said, I bought TL2, and I'm having fun. It's a fun game and mostly well-designed game.
6. So what?


1. Again, you make very hasty assumptions. The game has been out for 2 days now, and you say there is no trading economy, it must be because of modding and cheating! No, it is because people are lvl 5-30, and no one has any interest in trading yet. There will surely pop up a trading thread once people reach higher levels, probably on many forums.
2. Like I tried to explain, items have value unless you choose to cheat. If you choose to cheat, then sure, that's your problem, but for me, a set item that I need does have value. You could also grind the gear needed to beat the game on Elite Hardcore, which is probably very hard and would need preparation and the right gear ready.
3. Again, you say that items are worthless because of modding, but you could just NOT use, trade or mod your items, which would give the regular items their value back. No one is forcing imbalanced items into your gameplay, that choice is yours.
4. Fair pvp could be achieved by making players able to inspect each other, or the "arena mod" detecting if the other player has ever used mods, or is currently using. It could also compare his items and skills to the game database. I'm sure there are plenty of ways to do it, I'm no programmer.
5. Good to hear you're enjoying the game and you think it was worth your money.
6. So it is silly to whine about an endgame after 2 days. Diablo 2 did not have one, WoW did not have one, most games do not have one when they come out. It's not necessarily excusable, but it is definitely normal.

Ever taken a course in economics?

The value of an item is what others are willing to pay for it. It's NOT what you think it's worth if you don't cheat. Value is derived from scarcity. There's no scarcity in TL2, you can have anything you want. So there is no value. In addition, how do you know if another player's items are legit?

There will be no economy because no one wants your items. How long should we wait before you accept that there will be no economy in TL2. 1 week? 1 month?

And you are soooooooo, so so so WRONG, about WoW and D2 not having an endgame. They did have an endgame and they had one when the game first came out. Raiding for WoW, and trading and PvP for D2. There's nothing that TL2 can do to have an endgame with out a closed server. It's not possible, because of open servers and modding. Even if you are able to check if items, and stats and skills are valid for PvP, you cannot check that they were acquired legitimately. Hence, in order to do PvP with your suggestion, people would have to mod in the best possible gear that is legit to stand a chance.


youre hurting my brains stop. TL2 was intended as single player game with a chance to co-op with friends, is it that hard to understand? And cheating in single player is as dumb as it can get.
And no, d2 had no late game, you could bot every item for free, wasnt that hard. Go back to wow already.

But his argument is that there will be an economy? So you're saying it OK that there isn't because you can just play with your group of very trusted friend who would never cheat?

And why were there trading and PK games in D2?


There was botting and duping in D2. People still traded. Everyone used maphacks, there was still PVP, even though nova sorc teleported around and landed on top of you 100% of the time. Strange, don't you think? D2 was a mess until patch 1.12 or so and if you consider doing 1 raid once a week an endgame, then sure, WoW had it. The value of the item is what people will pay/trade it for, yes, but you seem to be under the impression that every single player out there will just mod the items they need, then throw the game away because they are done. I'll happily inform you that there are players here, just like in D2, that find it fun to equip their characters without cheating. We do play the games for fun, after all.

In TL1, your account was flagged when you modded, iirc. I'm sure there are smart people out there that can figure out a way to reduce some of the "cheating" as you call it, but most of us don't really care because we don't cheat.

Yes, there was botting and duping, but there was still scarcity, which there won't be in TL2. In D2, there was a reason to want good items, PvP. Why do you need items in TL2? What's the point? How do you know the items that you've been traded are legit, and that it won't get your character flagged for using mods? Are you seriously telling me that there will be a economy in TL2 like in D3?

Not even the fanboys in the TL2 forum argue that there will be an economy. They admit there won't be, instead they argue that economies are for obnoxious D2JSP users -- we hate those.

Nova sorc? Have you even played D2? There were sorcs 1-shotting with people Thunderstorm from a distance, and then later there were hammderdins, why are you talking about nova sorcs? Clearly you no idea what you're talking about.

Are you mocking WoW as if it didn't have a real endgame? As if TL2's soon to nonexistent economy will show us all how a REAL endgame is done.
Clemz
Profile Blog Joined January 2012
United States70 Posts
September 22 2012 17:28 GMT
#885
The Luminous Arena on elite is absurd, man. I love the difficulty, but shit, I've been trying this for like the better part of the last hour. The poison rangers are ridiculous.
Leth0
Profile Joined February 2012
856 Posts
September 22 2012 17:31 GMT
#886
On September 23 2012 02:27 paralleluniverse wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 23 2012 02:16 shabby wrote:
On September 23 2012 02:08 paralleluniverse wrote:
On September 23 2012 02:04 Artok wrote:
On September 23 2012 01:50 paralleluniverse wrote:
On September 23 2012 01:25 shabby wrote:
On September 23 2012 01:17 paralleluniverse wrote:
On September 23 2012 00:59 shabby wrote:
On September 23 2012 00:40 paralleluniverse wrote:
On September 23 2012 00:36 shabby wrote:
[quote]

TL2 is randomized so you can play it over again. Also, there is more content than D2 "endgame", because you can use portal scrolls etc. In addition I think I read something about something unlocking when you finish the game, so you could keep playing. ALSO, this game is openly moddable, so endless content will be added just like for TL1.

I've already address those points here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=103417&currentpage=21#410

There is no point in doing any of those things, as the above post explains.


Alright.

1. You say that there is no economy. Why? You can trade items just like in Diablo 2. It is your problem if you choose to trade with modded items that make the game imbalanced. That is you cheating, and then complaining it ruins your experience.
2. You claim that having more dungeons and items to gather is not an endgame? What endgame do you expect? PVP? If it is not added by runic someone will probably add an Arena mod. This mod could easily inspect anyone joining to see if they have custom items or if everything was looted legit. If they are not legit, don't duel them.
3. You are under the impression that because you can "mod" any item, there is no point to play? You can say that for all games, because you can cheat if you like. If you think the possibility of modding and cheating undermines your experience, then I don't know what to say. You will never enjoy any game other than a MMO again.
4. You claim that mods kill the game because they are amateurish. Then you should do more research before downloading a mod, I suppose. I usually only download the ones that are good and add the stuff I want (for example new classes, more dungeons etc)
5. You paid something like $20 for idk, at least 20 hours of content. That beats 99% of all other single player games out there where you pay $50-60 for 5-8 hours.
6. The game just came out, there will be patches, they've promised more free content, and if people feel the same way you do, they will just mod the game to allow for whatever endgame you desire. Or you could mod it yourself.

1. Because there's no one to trade with. Do you see trading games in TL2. No? That's because no one wants to trade given (1) they can mod the items themselves, (2) the items in the trade may be modded, (3) the game is pretty easy, (4) hell, they can even mod the game so that they don't need items at all. Items have no value, there is no reason to want items from other players, so no one trades, so there is no economy.
2. There' is no point to grind the "endgame" maps. Why do them? For items? Items have no value, see 1.
3. Modding doesn't necessarily mean there's no reason to play. But modding items means there's reason to play for items or for anything related to items. So why play at all after beating the game once or twice? I see no point to continue playing after that. Mod aren't that fun, just look at SC2 and WC3, most maps are amateur and badly balanced, not worth playing.
4. How can you mod in a economy? Can you mod in fair PvP, given that that anyone can mod their characters to do 1 trillion damage? The problem is you can't mod mods out of the the game, so it's not possible to mod in an economy and mod in character based PvP. The only possible sort of PvP would be like DotA or Counter-Strike style, where everyone must used a standardized character. But even that's probably going to get speed hacked or something.
5. I don't buy those shit games you're referring to. I agree the game is worth $20, but probably no more than that. As I've said, I bought TL2, and I'm having fun. It's a fun game and mostly well-designed game.
6. So what?


1. Again, you make very hasty assumptions. The game has been out for 2 days now, and you say there is no trading economy, it must be because of modding and cheating! No, it is because people are lvl 5-30, and no one has any interest in trading yet. There will surely pop up a trading thread once people reach higher levels, probably on many forums.
2. Like I tried to explain, items have value unless you choose to cheat. If you choose to cheat, then sure, that's your problem, but for me, a set item that I need does have value. You could also grind the gear needed to beat the game on Elite Hardcore, which is probably very hard and would need preparation and the right gear ready.
3. Again, you say that items are worthless because of modding, but you could just NOT use, trade or mod your items, which would give the regular items their value back. No one is forcing imbalanced items into your gameplay, that choice is yours.
4. Fair pvp could be achieved by making players able to inspect each other, or the "arena mod" detecting if the other player has ever used mods, or is currently using. It could also compare his items and skills to the game database. I'm sure there are plenty of ways to do it, I'm no programmer.
5. Good to hear you're enjoying the game and you think it was worth your money.
6. So it is silly to whine about an endgame after 2 days. Diablo 2 did not have one, WoW did not have one, most games do not have one when they come out. It's not necessarily excusable, but it is definitely normal.

Ever taken a course in economics?

The value of an item is what others are willing to pay for it. It's NOT what you think it's worth if you don't cheat. Value is derived from scarcity. There's no scarcity in TL2, you can have anything you want. So there is no value. In addition, how do you know if another player's items are legit?

There will be no economy because no one wants your items. How long should we wait before you accept that there will be no economy in TL2. 1 week? 1 month?

And you are soooooooo, so so so WRONG, about WoW and D2 not having an endgame. They did have an endgame and they had one when the game first came out. Raiding for WoW, and trading and PvP for D2. There's nothing that TL2 can do to have an endgame with out a closed server. It's not possible, because of open servers and modding. Even if you are able to check if items, and stats and skills are valid for PvP, you cannot check that they were acquired legitimately. Hence, in order to do PvP with your suggestion, people would have to mod in the best possible gear that is legit to stand a chance.


youre hurting my brains stop. TL2 was intended as single player game with a chance to co-op with friends, is it that hard to understand? And cheating in single player is as dumb as it can get.
And no, d2 had no late game, you could bot every item for free, wasnt that hard. Go back to wow already.

But his argument is that there will be an economy? So you're saying it OK that there isn't because you can just play with your group of very trusted friend who would never cheat?

And why were there trading and PK games in D2?


There was botting and duping in D2. People still traded. Everyone used maphacks, there was still PVP, even though nova sorc teleported around and landed on top of you 100% of the time. Strange, don't you think? D2 was a mess until patch 1.12 or so and if you consider doing 1 raid once a week an endgame, then sure, WoW had it. The value of the item is what people will pay/trade it for, yes, but you seem to be under the impression that every single player out there will just mod the items they need, then throw the game away because they are done. I'll happily inform you that there are players here, just like in D2, that find it fun to equip their characters without cheating. We do play the games for fun, after all.

In TL1, your account was flagged when you modded, iirc. I'm sure there are smart people out there that can figure out a way to reduce some of the "cheating" as you call it, but most of us don't really care because we don't cheat.

Yes, there was botting and duping, but there was still scarcity, which there won't be in TL2. In D2, there was a reason to want good items, PvP. Why do you need items in TL2? What's the point? How do you know the items that you've been traded is legit, and that it won't get your character flagged for using mods? Are you seriously telling me that there will be a economy in TL2 like in D3?

Nova sorc? Have you even played D2? There were sorcs 1-shotting with Thunderstorm from a distance, and then later there were hammderdins, are you're talking about nova sorcs? Clearly you no idea what you're talking about.

Are you mocking WoW as if it didn't have a real endgame? As if TL2's soon to nonexistent economy will show us all how a REAL endgame is done.


Now that's what I call a cool story bro. So now that you've cried enough about random shit that doesn't matter and hopefully got it out of your system can you like, go away now? You are only being argumentative for no other reason than what I can assume to be a low self esteem that just needs to vent in order to try and make everyone else as miserable as you are, and I don't think it's working so go peddle your tears elsewhere.
BurningSera
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Ireland19621 Posts
September 22 2012 17:31 GMT
#887
On September 23 2012 02:13 Leth0 wrote:
Parrallelunivers , wtf are you doing playing a game that you obviously are trying super hard not to enjoy?


Let's quote this whenever we see his post.

Also, he clearly has never played a game with mods before. Somehow i think that he is 'mad' at TL2 couldn't provide him a chance to make real money like d3 did (he is from d2jsp for people who didnt notice yet).
is 2017, stop being lame, fuck's sakes. 'Can't wait for the rise of the cakes and humanity's last stand tbqh.'
paralleluniverse
Profile Joined July 2010
4065 Posts
September 22 2012 17:33 GMT
#888
On September 23 2012 02:18 Steveling wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 23 2012 02:17 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:
and then you realize he just likes arguing with people for the sake of arguing. Post history 100% disagreement. Achievement unlocked master troll.


I also like how he ignored my post about the closed servers question in the Q&A.
So yeah, he's just trolling.

What Q&A?
paralleluniverse
Profile Joined July 2010
4065 Posts
September 22 2012 17:33 GMT
#889
On September 23 2012 02:17 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:
and then you realize he just likes arguing with people for the sake of arguing. Post history 100% disagreement. Achievement unlocked master troll.

Well, if we had 100% agreement, then I wouldn't need to post.
Leth0
Profile Joined February 2012
856 Posts
September 22 2012 17:34 GMT
#890
On September 23 2012 02:31 BurningSera wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 23 2012 02:13 Leth0 wrote:
Parrallelunivers , wtf are you doing playing a game that you obviously are trying super hard not to enjoy?


Let's quote this whenever we see his post.

Also, he clearly has never played a game with mods before. Somehow i think that he is 'mad' at TL2 couldn't provide him a chance to make real money like d3 did (he is from d2jsp for people who didnt notice yet).


It feels to me like he's a D3 player that just spent a shitload of money on gearing out his character (Im sure the bots appreciate it) and now he's just angry as shit because he's finally come to the realization that all that gear is worthless, even more so with the graveyard that is the D3 playerbase.
paralleluniverse
Profile Joined July 2010
4065 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-09-22 17:36:36
September 22 2012 17:36 GMT
#891
On September 23 2012 02:31 BurningSera wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 23 2012 02:13 Leth0 wrote:
Parrallelunivers , wtf are you doing playing a game that you obviously are trying super hard not to enjoy?


Let's quote this whenever we see his post.

Also, he clearly has never played a game with mods before. Somehow i think that he is 'mad' at TL2 couldn't provide him a chance to make real money like d3 did (he is from d2jsp for people who didnt notice yet).

Citation needed.

Where is your proof that I'm from D2JSP (I'm not)? Where's your proof that I play D3. In fact, I loathe D3 because of the RMAH: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=369764&currentpage=7#126

Keep making things up.
Blitzkrieg0
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States13132 Posts
September 22 2012 17:41 GMT
#892
On September 23 2012 02:33 paralleluniverse wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 23 2012 02:17 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:
and then you realize he just likes arguing with people for the sake of arguing. Post history 100% disagreement. Achievement unlocked master troll.

Well, if we had 100% agreement, then I wouldn't need to post.


You don't need to post anyways. You aren't gong to convince anyone here because your opinion about the game is wrong. Clearly we have some other reason to enjoy the game that you don't see and you're just shitting up the thread arguing for the sake of arguing.

Just another Skyrim debate as I stated after you initial assessments way back when. Hate the game because you don't know how to enjoy playing it.
I'll always be your shadow and veil your eyes from states of ain soph aur.
Artok
Profile Joined May 2011
Netherlands2219 Posts
September 22 2012 17:44 GMT
#893
On September 23 2012 02:08 paralleluniverse wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 23 2012 02:04 Artok wrote:
On September 23 2012 01:50 paralleluniverse wrote:
On September 23 2012 01:25 shabby wrote:
On September 23 2012 01:17 paralleluniverse wrote:
On September 23 2012 00:59 shabby wrote:
On September 23 2012 00:40 paralleluniverse wrote:
On September 23 2012 00:36 shabby wrote:
On September 22 2012 23:43 paralleluniverse wrote:
On September 22 2012 23:42 [17]Purple wrote:
I still don't understand why paralleluniverse seems to insist that a game lacking replayablity makes it bad, perhaps that's his subjective opinion but why try to enjoy a game which does not have what makes it enjoyable for you? If what you find enjoyable is having some sort of arbitrary endgame that extends the lifespan of your [insert price here] game by well over the value other forms of entertainment then one cannot go wrong by continuing to play the game with the higher replayablity value if that is what one truly enjoys.

Because it doesn't have to be this way. See D2. It has a endgame.


TL2 is randomized so you can play it over again. Also, there is more content than D2 "endgame", because you can use portal scrolls etc. In addition I think I read something about something unlocking when you finish the game, so you could keep playing. ALSO, this game is openly moddable, so endless content will be added just like for TL1.

I've already address those points here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=103417&currentpage=21#410

There is no point in doing any of those things, as the above post explains.


Alright.

1. You say that there is no economy. Why? You can trade items just like in Diablo 2. It is your problem if you choose to trade with modded items that make the game imbalanced. That is you cheating, and then complaining it ruins your experience.
2. You claim that having more dungeons and items to gather is not an endgame? What endgame do you expect? PVP? If it is not added by runic someone will probably add an Arena mod. This mod could easily inspect anyone joining to see if they have custom items or if everything was looted legit. If they are not legit, don't duel them.
3. You are under the impression that because you can "mod" any item, there is no point to play? You can say that for all games, because you can cheat if you like. If you think the possibility of modding and cheating undermines your experience, then I don't know what to say. You will never enjoy any game other than a MMO again.
4. You claim that mods kill the game because they are amateurish. Then you should do more research before downloading a mod, I suppose. I usually only download the ones that are good and add the stuff I want (for example new classes, more dungeons etc)
5. You paid something like $20 for idk, at least 20 hours of content. That beats 99% of all other single player games out there where you pay $50-60 for 5-8 hours.
6. The game just came out, there will be patches, they've promised more free content, and if people feel the same way you do, they will just mod the game to allow for whatever endgame you desire. Or you could mod it yourself.

1. Because there's no one to trade with. Do you see trading games in TL2. No? That's because no one wants to trade given (1) they can mod the items themselves, (2) the items in the trade may be modded, (3) the game is pretty easy, (4) hell, they can even mod the game so that they don't need items at all. Items have no value, there is no reason to want items from other players, so no one trades, so there is no economy.
2. There' is no point to grind the "endgame" maps. Why do them? For items? Items have no value, see 1.
3. Modding doesn't necessarily mean there's no reason to play. But modding items means there's reason to play for items or for anything related to items. So why play at all after beating the game once or twice? I see no point to continue playing after that. Mod aren't that fun, just look at SC2 and WC3, most maps are amateur and badly balanced, not worth playing.
4. How can you mod in a economy? Can you mod in fair PvP, given that that anyone can mod their characters to do 1 trillion damage? The problem is you can't mod mods out of the the game, so it's not possible to mod in an economy and mod in character based PvP. The only possible sort of PvP would be like DotA or Counter-Strike style, where everyone must used a standardized character. But even that's probably going to get speed hacked or something.
5. I don't buy those shit games you're referring to. I agree the game is worth $20, but probably no more than that. As I've said, I bought TL2, and I'm having fun. It's a fun game and mostly well-designed game.
6. So what?


1. Again, you make very hasty assumptions. The game has been out for 2 days now, and you say there is no trading economy, it must be because of modding and cheating! No, it is because people are lvl 5-30, and no one has any interest in trading yet. There will surely pop up a trading thread once people reach higher levels, probably on many forums.
2. Like I tried to explain, items have value unless you choose to cheat. If you choose to cheat, then sure, that's your problem, but for me, a set item that I need does have value. You could also grind the gear needed to beat the game on Elite Hardcore, which is probably very hard and would need preparation and the right gear ready.
3. Again, you say that items are worthless because of modding, but you could just NOT use, trade or mod your items, which would give the regular items their value back. No one is forcing imbalanced items into your gameplay, that choice is yours.
4. Fair pvp could be achieved by making players able to inspect each other, or the "arena mod" detecting if the other player has ever used mods, or is currently using. It could also compare his items and skills to the game database. I'm sure there are plenty of ways to do it, I'm no programmer.
5. Good to hear you're enjoying the game and you think it was worth your money.
6. So it is silly to whine about an endgame after 2 days. Diablo 2 did not have one, WoW did not have one, most games do not have one when they come out. It's not necessarily excusable, but it is definitely normal.

Ever taken a course in economics?

The value of an item is what others are willing to pay for it. It's NOT what you think it's worth if you don't cheat. Value is derived from scarcity. There's no scarcity in TL2, you can have anything you want. So there is no value. In addition, how do you know if another player's items are legit?

There will be no economy because no one wants your items. How long should we wait before you accept that there will be no economy in TL2. 1 week? 1 month?

And you are soooooooo, so so so WRONG, about WoW and D2 not having an endgame. They did have an endgame and they had one when the game first came out. Raiding for WoW, and trading and PvP for D2. There's nothing that TL2 can do to have an endgame with out a closed server. It's not possible, because of open servers and modding. Even if you are able to check if items, and stats and skills are valid for PvP, you cannot check that they were acquired legitimately. Hence, in order to do PvP with your suggestion, people would have to mod in the best possible gear that is legit to stand a chance.


youre hurting my brains stop. TL2 was intended as single player game with a chance to co-op with friends, is it that hard to understand? And cheating in single player is as dumb as it can get.
And no, d2 had no late game, you could bot every item for free, wasnt that hard. Go back to wow already.

But his argument is that there will be an economy? So you're saying it OK that there isn't because you can just play with your group of very trusted friend who would never cheat?

And why were there trading and PK games in D2?

trading existed because trading boted items was awesome and pk existed because it was fun. Oh right, d2 had closed servers, while tl2 doesnt and runic dont plan to open any, its intented to be single player game with co-op possibility for more fun, are you goddamn blind or what? Youre bitching about no end game content in pretty much single player game, think about it for a bit.
Chun-li since ST
Durak
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
Canada3684 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-09-22 17:47:07
September 22 2012 17:46 GMT
#894
As a spectator in this thread, I'd like to hear more about the game and less about paralleluniverse. On topic discussion, please!
paralleluniverse
Profile Joined July 2010
4065 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-09-22 17:59:36
September 22 2012 17:48 GMT
#895
On September 23 2012 02:41 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 23 2012 02:33 paralleluniverse wrote:
On September 23 2012 02:17 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:
and then you realize he just likes arguing with people for the sake of arguing. Post history 100% disagreement. Achievement unlocked master troll.

Well, if we had 100% agreement, then I wouldn't need to post.


You don't need to post anyways. You aren't gong to convince anyone here because your opinion about the game is wrong. Clearly we have some other reason to enjoy the game that you don't see and you're just shitting up the thread arguing for the sake of arguing.

Just another Skyrim debate as I stated after you initial assessments way back when. Hate the game because you don't know how to enjoy playing it.

Woah.

Can people stop making things up about the games I play.

I never played Skyrim and I've never posted anything about it EVER. Do you know what I think of Skyrim? I don't.
Artok
Profile Joined May 2011
Netherlands2219 Posts
September 22 2012 17:49 GMT
#896
On September 23 2012 02:46 Durak wrote:
As a spectator in this thread, I'd like to hear more about the game and less about paralleluniverse. On topic discussion, please!

super fun, has that awesome feel of d2, just legendary items dont want to drop at all Worth 20$ for sure, just dont expect some super competitive netplay, because its not there. Afaik mod tools arent out yet either, so if you are into that, you may have to wait a bit.
Chun-li since ST
Zhou
Profile Joined February 2009
United States832 Posts
September 22 2012 17:52 GMT
#897
Could anyone pinpoint the time you get the npc that sells you those maps to random dungeons in the game? Would be helpful. Thanks!
Artok
Profile Joined May 2011
Netherlands2219 Posts
September 22 2012 17:54 GMT
#898
On September 23 2012 02:52 Zhou wrote:
Could anyone pinpoint the time you get the npc that sells you those maps to random dungeons in the game? Would be helpful. Thanks!

after killing last boss in ng.
Chun-li since ST
Durak
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
Canada3684 Posts
September 22 2012 17:55 GMT
#899
On September 23 2012 02:49 Artok wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 23 2012 02:46 Durak wrote:
As a spectator in this thread, I'd like to hear more about the game and less about paralleluniverse. On topic discussion, please!

super fun, has that awesome feel of d2, just legendary items dont want to drop at all Worth 20$ for sure, just dont expect some super competitive netplay, because its not there. Afaik mod tools arent out yet either, so if you are into that, you may have to wait a bit.

Yeah, I'm not too concerned about "competitive play" in an RPG. RPGs are like movies or books for me: an experience for a limited time and then I move on. I play FPS, RTS, or DOTA games if I want competition.
Blitzkrieg0
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States13132 Posts
September 22 2012 17:56 GMT
#900
On September 23 2012 02:48 paralleluniverse wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 23 2012 02:41 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:
On September 23 2012 02:33 paralleluniverse wrote:
On September 23 2012 02:17 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:
and then you realize he just likes arguing with people for the sake of arguing. Post history 100% disagreement. Achievement unlocked master troll.

Well, if we had 100% agreement, then I wouldn't need to post.


You don't need to post anyways. You aren't gong to convince anyone here because your opinion about the game is wrong. Clearly we have some other reason to enjoy the game that you don't see and you're just shitting up the thread arguing for the sake of arguing.

Just another Skyrim debate as I stated after you initial assessments way back when. Hate the game because you don't know how to enjoy playing it.

Woah.

Can people stop making things up about the games I play.

I never played Skyrim and I've post anything about it EVER. Do you know what I think of Skyrim? I don't.


I don't recall saying you've played or even heard of Skyrim. The analogy is there because people like you don't understand how to play single player games with mods. Luckily you stopped reading right after seeing that so you missed the point.
I'll always be your shadow and veil your eyes from states of ain soph aur.
Prev 1 43 44 45 46 47 95 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
18:00
RO8 Round Robin Group - Day 4
Bonyth vs Zhanhun
Dewalt vs Mihu
Hawk vs Sziky
Sziky vs QiaoGege
Mihu vs Hawk
Zhanhun vs Dewalt
Fengzi vs Bonyth
ZZZero.O84
LiquipediaDiscussion
FEL
09:00
Cracow 2025
Clem vs TBD
Reynor vs TBD
RotterdaM2902
ComeBackTV 2243
IndyStarCraft 716
WardiTV517
CranKy Ducklings222
3DClanTV 189
Rex140
EnkiAlexander 120
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
RotterdaM 2902
IndyStarCraft 716
Rex 140
Vindicta 46
MindelVK 15
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 31256
Shine 315
firebathero 258
BeSt 186
Soulkey 131
ZZZero.O 84
Hyun 64
Dewaltoss 63
yabsab 35
sSak 30
[ Show more ]
Free 25
Terrorterran 8
IntoTheRainbow 4
Dota 2
Gorgc6508
qojqva3904
Counter-Strike
fl0m4090
flusha170
Super Smash Bros
hungrybox1274
Mew2King518
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor715
Liquid`Hasu474
Other Games
B2W.Neo730
Hui .201
KnowMe144
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick2284
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 19 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• StrangeGG 43
• Adnapsc2 13
• iHatsuTV 11
• Legendk 8
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• sooper7s
• intothetv
• Migwel
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
StarCraft: Brood War
• Azhi_Dahaki14
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• Nemesis2371
• WagamamaTV710
Other Games
• imaqtpie1050
• Shiphtur207
Upcoming Events
Wardi Open
16h 37m
Sparkling Tuna Cup
1d 15h
WardiTV European League
1d 21h
Online Event
1d 23h
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
2 days
The PondCast
3 days
Replay Cast
4 days
Korean StarCraft League
5 days
CranKy Ducklings
5 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
Esports World Cup 2025
Murky Cup #2

Ongoing

Copa Latinoamericana 4
Jiahua Invitational
BSL 20 Non-Korean Championship
BSL 20 Team Wars
FEL Cracov 2025
CC Div. A S7
Underdog Cup #2
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25

Upcoming

ASL Season 20: Qualifier #1
ASL Season 20: Qualifier #2
ASL Season 20
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
BSL Season 21
RSL Revival: Season 2
Maestros of the Game
SEL Season 2 Championship
WardiTV Summer 2025
uThermal 2v2 Main Event
HCC Europe
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.