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Smash Bros. Melee General Discussion - Page 105

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We have created an irc channel (#tl-smash on Quakenet) for people to find others to play with on Dolphin or just to chat about Smash. Feel free to join!
]343[
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
United States10328 Posts
December 15 2014 02:54 GMT
#2081
Tyrion, work on your edgeguarding vs Falcon! Charging fsmash vs a recovering Falcon is pretty pointless (just hit him back off stage and repeat until he's dead.) You should just reposition yourself instead of charging, or if he's already descending, go out and (non-tipper) fair him or something. On the other hand, your Falco-edgeguarding was pretty nice (except that one time you SDed...)

You tend to throw out laggy moves (fsmash especially) when your opponent is not in range, letting yourself get punished for free. Also, you seem to panic counter quite a bit vs Falcon... why?
Writer
TyrionSC2
Profile Joined November 2010
United States411 Posts
December 15 2014 03:00 GMT
#2082
Yeah that's actually something I'm going to work on. I was watching ultimascout go for off stage dairs against falcon and it seemed much more reliable.
My stuff against falco is actually a lot better than what I showed in the tournament which was disappointing. That SD was reallyyyyyyyyyyyy dumb. I'm kinda mad about that. I guess it's better to get it out of the way now .

Umm. I honestly don't know the falcon matchup at all so that's part of it. I'm only comfortable vs spacies atm.
I felt so good in several stocks but then my others were so trashy and bad.
Thanks for the advice. I'm going to watch my games a little more and look for the bad stuff so I can work it out :3
hariooo
Profile Joined October 2013
Canada2830 Posts
December 15 2014 20:43 GMT
#2083
offstage dairs only works if they're forced to recover relatively low and in that case dj fair or walk->fsmash are infinitely more reliable.
]343[
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
United States10328 Posts
December 15 2014 22:39 GMT
#2084
yeah, if you want to go offstage I'd probably prefer run off dj fair, run off forward-b up-b (maybe with a jump in there? I'm actually not clear on how that works) or ledgedrop dj bair. If he's low, I think grabbing ledge might be good (-> ledgehop uair or something if he's high enough to get on stage?) If he's high, try to cover fade back to the ledge first, because if he up-b's to a platform or whatever he'll be above you and you'll be happy.

Actually, just go to the Marth boards on Smashboards and see what actual good players have to say ^_^
Writer
TyrionSC2
Profile Joined November 2010
United States411 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-12-17 00:15:17
December 16 2014 22:04 GMT
#2085
I'm not sure if you're right about that for edge guarding falcon.
Off stage dairs are great if he goes high. It's very easy.
If you go for fairs you NEED to space tipper OR there is a good chance you will get hit by his up b. And tipper sends him straight up which does not help edge guard him.
Watch PPMD vs M2K at MLG game 2 of semis when PP got 3 kills with down air.

UltimaScout and Simon aren't the highest level players (Rutgers best is Simon) but the down air edgeguard worked consistently in their 10 game grand finals set.
OnceKing
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United States939 Posts
December 16 2014 22:25 GMT
#2086
lots of aerials work if he goes high, you just need to intercept his up b before it reaches its apex
"Every man has his follies - and often they are the most interesting thing he has got."
-Kaiser-
Profile Blog Joined November 2011
Canada932 Posts
December 17 2014 04:16 GMT
#2087
Tyrion, work on Smash DI and Combo DI and being a more aggressive edgeguarder in both matchups. Work on your powershielding against Falco.
3 Hatch Before Cool
darthfoley
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States8004 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-12-18 22:31:56
December 18 2014 22:31 GMT
#2088
Can someone explain to me why Mewtwo is considered so low on the tier list? To my naked, untrained and relatively newbie eye, it seems like he has at least decent metrics.

He has pretty good recovery options and movements options, e.g. wavedash, upB, etc.
He has the tilts and aerials to create decent combos
He doesn't have the best kill moves, but they don't strike me as being horrendous.
His backair, spike and f-tilts seem like edgeguarding would be a strength of his.

Part of me feels like he's sort of in the same boat as Yoshi, where he is written off as terri-bad until someone like aMSa comes along. I know Taj and m2k have played him here and there. I haven't really done any research and I was just curious for a general explanation. I'm not trying to say he's top tier, but being behind Roy, Zelda and Link confuse me.
watch the wall collide with my fist, mostly over problems that i know i should fix
-Kaiser-
Profile Blog Joined November 2011
Canada932 Posts
December 19 2014 02:10 GMT
#2089
On December 19 2014 07:31 darthfoley wrote:
Can someone explain to me why Mewtwo is considered so low on the tier list? To my naked, untrained and relatively newbie eye, it seems like he has at least decent metrics.

He has pretty good recovery options and movements options, e.g. wavedash, upB, etc.
He has the tilts and aerials to create decent combos
He doesn't have the best kill moves, but they don't strike me as being horrendous.
His backair, spike and f-tilts seem like edgeguarding would be a strength of his.

Part of me feels like he's sort of in the same boat as Yoshi, where he is written off as terri-bad until someone like aMSa comes along. I know Taj and m2k have played him here and there. I haven't really done any research and I was just curious for a general explanation. I'm not trying to say he's top tier, but being behind Roy, Zelda and Link confuse me.


His tilts and aerials don't have good combos when opponents DI. All his moves have bad hitboxes and bad priority that make it very hard for him to get any solid hits, he's very easy to kill, his movement is laggy and imprecise, and the lack of good kill moves means a lot more at a semi-competitive level when people don't just run into your standing d-smashes.

His best move is his nair. Decent hitbox, usually hits for good damage, leaves Mewtwo at an advantage.
3 Hatch Before Cool
darthfoley
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States8004 Posts
December 19 2014 02:29 GMT
#2090
On December 19 2014 11:10 -Kaiser- wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 19 2014 07:31 darthfoley wrote:
Can someone explain to me why Mewtwo is considered so low on the tier list? To my naked, untrained and relatively newbie eye, it seems like he has at least decent metrics.

He has pretty good recovery options and movements options, e.g. wavedash, upB, etc.
He has the tilts and aerials to create decent combos
He doesn't have the best kill moves, but they don't strike me as being horrendous.
His backair, spike and f-tilts seem like edgeguarding would be a strength of his.

Part of me feels like he's sort of in the same boat as Yoshi, where he is written off as terri-bad until someone like aMSa comes along. I know Taj and m2k have played him here and there. I haven't really done any research and I was just curious for a general explanation. I'm not trying to say he's top tier, but being behind Roy, Zelda and Link confuse me.


His tilts and aerials don't have good combos when opponents DI. All his moves have bad hitboxes and bad priority that make it very hard for him to get any solid hits, he's very easy to kill, his movement is laggy and imprecise, and the lack of good kill moves means a lot more at a semi-competitive level when people don't just run into your standing d-smashes.

His best move is his nair. Decent hitbox, usually hits for good damage, leaves Mewtwo at an advantage.


That's true, the hit boxes on stuff like the fair is just plain atrocious
watch the wall collide with my fist, mostly over problems that i know i should fix
]343[
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
United States10328 Posts
December 19 2014 19:18 GMT
#2091
naw mewtwo's best move is clearly dtilt
Writer
OnceKing
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United States939 Posts
December 19 2014 21:23 GMT
#2092
also mewtwo is big and fat and slow and light and iirc his shield ain't all that so basically all his defensive attributes except his up b which is really good are ass and he dies super easily

i mean in melee his tail has a hurtbox, c'mon
"Every man has his follies - and often they are the most interesting thing he has got."
-Kaiser-
Profile Blog Joined November 2011
Canada932 Posts
December 19 2014 22:27 GMT
#2093
On December 20 2014 04:18 ]343[ wrote:
naw mewtwo's best move is clearly dtilt


Fight me. What coast are you on!?
3 Hatch Before Cool
]343[
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
United States10328 Posts
December 20 2014 00:14 GMT
#2094
west coast yo
Writer
-Kaiser-
Profile Blog Joined November 2011
Canada932 Posts
December 20 2014 03:03 GMT
#2095
On December 20 2014 09:14 ]343[ wrote:
west coast yo


West coast best coast. I don't have a controller even though lolol. Want to play my keyboard? :D
3 Hatch Before Cool
rabidch
Profile Joined January 2010
United States20289 Posts
December 20 2014 14:30 GMT
#2096
On December 20 2014 04:18 ]343[ wrote:
naw mewtwo's best move is clearly dtilt

only against spacies.

also mewtwo has an atrociously huge hitbox to complement his lousy hitboxes
LiquidDota StaffOnly a true king can play the King.
OnceKing
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United States939 Posts
December 20 2014 21:38 GMT
#2097
lmao
watched my friend get 4stocked by hbox on stream then counterpick him to mushroom kingdom 2
"Every man has his follies - and often they are the most interesting thing he has got."
darthfoley
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States8004 Posts
December 21 2014 04:15 GMT
#2098
On December 21 2014 06:38 OnceKing wrote:
lmao
watched my friend get 4stocked by hbox on stream then counterpick him to mushroom kingdom 2


Honestly that's genius
watch the wall collide with my fist, mostly over problems that i know i should fix
OnceKing
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United States939 Posts
December 21 2014 06:23 GMT
#2099
hey he took 2 stocks on mk2 so no complaints from me on his cp
this gfy from reddit is another one of my friends getting demolished on fd by wobbles
http://gfycat.com/EcstaticNauticalBeagle
"Every man has his follies - and often they are the most interesting thing he has got."
GhandiEAGLE
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States20754 Posts
December 21 2014 06:26 GMT
#2100
Wobbles is back?!?!
Oh, my achin' hands, from rakin' in grands, and breakin' in mic stands
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