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On February 13 2012 12:33 Azzur wrote:Show nested quote +On February 13 2012 09:17 Squeegy wrote:
4. Intrigue argues that BW skill is (at least to an extent) proportional to SC2 skill Intrigue goes on to say that 300 BW pros can dominate the SC2 scene - I hardly see proof of that - maybe if he considers forGG and Hyun's performances as dominating (lol!) then I'll agree with him!
I hardly see proof of that as well, considering fOrGG and HyuN should be 150 players each, I find it staggering how they aren't the new SC2 kings. Holy shit.
On February 13 2012 12:33 Azzur wrote:
then I'll agree with him!
Intrigue is a girl.
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The day Jaedong switches to SC2, I'll be laughing at anyone who even remembers what a "NesTea" is.
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United States97277 Posts
On February 13 2012 12:45 gulati wrote:
The day Jaedong switches to SC2, I'll be laughing at anyone who even remembers what a "NesTea" is.
People remember players that win titles in brood war right? Even 3 titles in sc2 has to be worth remembering
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On February 13 2012 12:45 gulati wrote:
The day Jaedong switches to SC2, I'll be laughing at anyone who even remembers what a "NesTea" is.
By the time that happens someone else gonna put "NesTea" into the history books. 
TBLS will not gonna be TBLS in SC2.
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On February 13 2012 08:38 morimacil wrote:
I like this thread.
Let me see if I understood it right:
Most BW pros who switched to SC2 are doing pretty good in SC2
Therefore, better BW pros who have no reason to switch to SC2 anytime soon, would be doing even better in SC2 if they did switch.
Therefore, SC2 is uninteresting to watch.
I like your argumenting method.
Since you base yourself on the assumption that players who switch game while being at a downpoint in their BW career are encessarily worse in all aspects of SC2 than players who would switch while at the height of their careers, and since its incredibly unlikely that a pro would switch games at the hight of his career...
Your argument can not be disproved, ever.
So I like it.
Taking Jaedong and Flash, as long as they keep doing well in BW, they have 0 reason to switch games. If they start doing worse and switch, well then even if they do bad in SC2, that wouldnt disprove your argument, since they would have switched after bad stats.
I like your way of thinking. Perfect analysis on why the bw > sc2 argument will never cease to exist and will never been proven as well.
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On February 13 2012 08:38 morimacil wrote:
I like this thread.
Let me see if I understood it right:
Most BW pros who switched to SC2 are doing pretty good in SC2
Therefore, better BW pros who have no reason to switch to SC2 anytime soon, would be doing even better in SC2 if they did switch.
Therefore, SC2 is uninteresting to watch.
I like your argumenting method.
Since you base yourself on the assumption that players who switch game while being at a downpoint in their BW career are encessarily worse in all aspects of SC2 than players who would switch while at the height of their careers, and since its incredibly unlikely that a pro would switch games at the hight of his career...
Your argument can not be disproved, ever.
So I like it.
Taking Jaedong and Flash, as long as they keep doing well in BW, they have 0 reason to switch games. If they start doing worse and switch, well then even if they do bad in SC2, that wouldnt disprove your argument, since they would have switched after bad stats.
Brilliant article if this is the case! Just to take it a step further - if they "dominate", then the elephant was indeed in the room! It's like heads I win, tails we draw!
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On February 13 2012 12:45 gulati wrote:
The day Jaedong switches to SC2, I'll be laughing at anyone who even remembers what a "NesTea" is.
While I would absolutely have a nerdgasm of joy if jaedong were to switch over to SC2, and have no doubt that he would dominate and quite possibly reinvent the way zerg is played, I highly doubt that the likes of nestea or MVP will be phased out even by the BW gods such as jaedong and flash. Being SC2 and BW are fairly different, I honestly view the BW gods as becoming equals to the SC2 gods, given time of course.
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Although badly worded imo, I think I get what the 300 player thing is coming from.
Basically its not saying that the top 300 would beat MVP as that doesn't really make any sense as MVP was at least in the top 100. Its more or less saying that if the top 300 switched over, the competition and skill level would rise dramatically.
But most of the foreign SC2 players would probably be as they were in BW, and most of the code A players would be replaced with these BW players (at the time of the writing). The average skill level would inevitably rise dramatically and the less experienced/dedicated [SC2 only] players would fall down, it seems like an obvious point when you think about it. Perhaps at the fringes we may still see MVP/Nestea/MC still in code S. However, I'm sure TBLS would still be the top four, their skills are out of this world even without BW micro.
On February 13 2012 13:40 hunts wrote:Show nested quote +On February 13 2012 12:45 gulati wrote:
The day Jaedong switches to SC2, I'll be laughing at anyone who even remembers what a "NesTea" is. While I would absolutely have a nerdgasm of joy if jaedong were to switch over to SC2, and have no doubt that he would dominate and quite possibly reinvent the way zerg is played, I highly doubt that the likes of nestea or MVP will be phased out even by the BW gods such as jaedong and flash. Being SC2 and BW are fairly different, I honestly view the BW gods as becoming equals to the SC2 gods, given time of course.
I agree
Jaedong just has impeccable management and reactionary play. Even when he has a supposed complete build order loss in ZvZ (arguably more coin-flippy than SC2 PvP), he still wins because he knows how to abuse the advantages of every ZvZ situation in such intricate detail. Zerg players have caught up, but they still never reached Jaedongs peak of approx ~90% ZvZ. There's no doubt that this would be a really useful skill toi have as Zerg in SC2.
He also invented the neo sauron 3 base spire 5 hatch hydra play that completely nullified the bisu-build and is almost the only build used in ZvP these days. Literally its just about having insane drone-management skills to build up a million hydras with mass upgrades at a certain timing and using mutalisks to snipe templars.
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On February 13 2012 13:54 sluggaslamoo wrote:Show nested quote +On February 13 2012 13:40 hunts wrote:On February 13 2012 12:45 gulati wrote:
The day Jaedong switches to SC2, I'll be laughing at anyone who even remembers what a "NesTea" is. While I would absolutely have a nerdgasm of joy if jaedong were to switch over to SC2, and have no doubt that he would dominate and quite possibly reinvent the way zerg is played, I highly doubt that the likes of nestea or MVP will be phased out even by the BW gods such as jaedong and flash. Being SC2 and BW are fairly different, I honestly view the BW gods as becoming equals to the SC2 gods, given time of course. Jaedong just has impeccable management and reactionary play. Even when he has a supposed complete build order loss in ZvZ (arguably more coin-flippy than SC2 PvP), he still wins because he knows how to abuse the advantages of every ZvZ situation in such intricate detail. Zerg players have caught up, but they still never reached Jaedongs peak of approx ~90% ZvZ. There's no doubt that this would be a really useful skill toi have as Zerg in SC2. He also invented the neo sauron 3 base spire 5 hatch hydra play that completely nullified the bisu-build and is almost the only build used in ZvP these days. Literally its just about having insane drone-management skills to build up a million hydras with mass upgrades at a certain timing and using mutalisks to snipe templars.
this is the sc2 forum. your argument is invalid and frankly, i am not interested in what this "jaedong" did.
I could as well tell you about the counterstrike legend "heaton".
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On February 13 2012 13:58 chrissummers wrote:Show nested quote +On February 13 2012 13:54 sluggaslamoo wrote:On February 13 2012 13:40 hunts wrote:On February 13 2012 12:45 gulati wrote:
The day Jaedong switches to SC2, I'll be laughing at anyone who even remembers what a "NesTea" is. While I would absolutely have a nerdgasm of joy if jaedong were to switch over to SC2, and have no doubt that he would dominate and quite possibly reinvent the way zerg is played, I highly doubt that the likes of nestea or MVP will be phased out even by the BW gods such as jaedong and flash. Being SC2 and BW are fairly different, I honestly view the BW gods as becoming equals to the SC2 gods, given time of course. Jaedong just has impeccable management and reactionary play. Even when he has a supposed complete build order loss in ZvZ (arguably more coin-flippy than SC2 PvP), he still wins because he knows how to abuse the advantages of every ZvZ situation in such intricate detail. Zerg players have caught up, but they still never reached Jaedongs peak of approx ~90% ZvZ. There's no doubt that this would be a really useful skill toi have as Zerg in SC2. He also invented the neo sauron 3 base spire 5 hatch hydra play that completely nullified the bisu-build and is almost the only build used in ZvP these days. Literally its just about having insane drone-management skills to build up a million hydras with mass upgrades at a certain timing and using mutalisks to snipe templars. this is the sc2 forum. your argument is invalid and frankly, i am not interested in what this "jaedong" did. I could as well tell you about the counterstrike legend "heaton".
I loved 1.5 but it isn't an RTS. How many CS players are in Code S compared to how many BW pros are in Code S? It was my first competitive game (CS 1.5), and quite frankly none of my skills transferred over.
I was also addressing another poster with relevance to his post and therefore could be of some interest, not you. I don't really care that you are not interested.
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On February 13 2012 09:17 Squeegy wrote:
1. Intrigue knows BW scene
2. MVP is a top 100 BW player
3. Intrigue knows MVP is a top 100 BW player
4. Intrigue argues that BW skill is (at least to an extent) proportional to SC2 skill
5. Intrigue argues that the best 300 BW players have the potential to dominate SC2
6. Intrigue claims that MVP dominates SC2
7. Intrigue's argument would not be internally consistent if he argued top 300 (excluding the top 100) had the potential to dominate the top 100*
8. Intrigue did not argue that the best 300 BW players (excluding the top 100) would dominate MVP
9. Intrigue meant something else than what you think by dominate
10. I claim Intrigue meant something else than what you think by dominate
11. I am correct
* I suppose in a way they do have the potential (anybody can beat anybody). But not in the way Intrigue means.
On February 13 2012 09:17 Squeegy wrote:
10. I claim Intrigue meant something else than what you think by dominate
11. I am correct
* I suppose in a way they do have the potential (anybody can beat anybody). But not in the way Intrigue means.
On February 13 2012 09:17 Squeegy wrote:
10. I claim Intrigue meant something else
11. I am correct
* I suppose in a way
On February 13 2012 09:17 Squeegy wrote:
I claim
I suppose
...
I am correct
Really? 
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On February 13 2012 13:58 chrissummers wrote:Show nested quote +On February 13 2012 13:54 sluggaslamoo wrote:On February 13 2012 13:40 hunts wrote:On February 13 2012 12:45 gulati wrote:
The day Jaedong switches to SC2, I'll be laughing at anyone who even remembers what a "NesTea" is. While I would absolutely have a nerdgasm of joy if jaedong were to switch over to SC2, and have no doubt that he would dominate and quite possibly reinvent the way zerg is played, I highly doubt that the likes of nestea or MVP will be phased out even by the BW gods such as jaedong and flash. Being SC2 and BW are fairly different, I honestly view the BW gods as becoming equals to the SC2 gods, given time of course. Jaedong just has impeccable management and reactionary play. Even when he has a supposed complete build order loss in ZvZ (arguably more coin-flippy than SC2 PvP), he still wins because he knows how to abuse the advantages of every ZvZ situation in such intricate detail. Zerg players have caught up, but they still never reached Jaedongs peak of approx ~90% ZvZ. There's no doubt that this would be a really useful skill toi have as Zerg in SC2. He also invented the neo sauron 3 base spire 5 hatch hydra play that completely nullified the bisu-build and is almost the only build used in ZvP these days. Literally its just about having insane drone-management skills to build up a million hydras with mass upgrades at a certain timing and using mutalisks to snipe templars. this is the sc2 forum. your argument is invalid and frankly, i am not interested in what this "jaedong" did. I could as well tell you about the counterstrike legend "heaton".
This is the SC2 forum, but come on man you litererly can't NOT care about someone like jaedong. He really is the culmination of the right mindset and skill, and is someone that I think most RTS players should look up to. Or maybe I'm saying that because I'm zerg. Either way I also think this thread and especially the OP is retarded, but you can't hate or not care about someone like jaedong.
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then pm him.
this is not a thread to discuss the cleverness and skill of BW players, it is ( if anything ) to discuss wheather a decent BW background makes you a winning machine in sc2, which until now has not been proven.
saying that former bw players are now code s players is like saying former wc3 players are now top EU sc2 players. It is pointless and does not add anything to he discussion
@hunts: i dont hate jaedong, i just dont care about BW. I never did, I never will. If I am looking for people to look up to, I will not chose bw progamers but rather people that do not live in a bubble and actually have a real life with friends, family, school/work.
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On February 13 2012 14:15 chrissummers wrote:
then pm him.
this is not a thread to discuss the cleverness and skill of BW players, it is ( if anything ) to discuss wheather a decent BW background makes you a winning machine in sc2, which until now has not been proven.
saying that former bw players are now code s players is like saying former wc3 players are now top EU sc2 players. It is pointless and does not add anything to he discussion
@hunts: i dont hate jaedong, i just dont care about BW. I never did, I never will. If I am looking for people to look up to, I will not chose bw progamers but rather people that do not live in a bubble and actually have a real life with friends, family, school/work.
That last paragraph shows just how ignorant and uninformed you are. Of course they have friends and family, how freaking dumb are you. Do you think professional football player don't have friends/family just because they train for hours upon hours each day?
Show some freaking respect for the very people that make a site like teamliquid possible
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On February 13 2012 14:36 1Eris1 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 13 2012 14:15 chrissummers wrote:
then pm him.
this is not a thread to discuss the cleverness and skill of BW players, it is ( if anything ) to discuss wheather a decent BW background makes you a winning machine in sc2, which until now has not been proven.
saying that former bw players are now code s players is like saying former wc3 players are now top EU sc2 players. It is pointless and does not add anything to he discussion
@hunts: i dont hate jaedong, i just dont care about BW. I never did, I never will. If I am looking for people to look up to, I will not chose bw progamers but rather people that do not live in a bubble and actually have a real life with friends, family, school/work. That last paragraph shows just how ignorant and uninformed you are. Of course they have friends and family, how freaking dumb are you. Do you think professional football player don't have friends/family just because they train for hours upon hours each day? Show some freaking respect for the very people that make a site like teamliquid possible
I never thought I'd say this, especially in this thread, but I completely agree with eris. It's one thing to disagree with the OP and with this thread and with how most of the bw/anti SC2 people are posting. It's completely different to disrespect legends like jaedong, flash, boxer, etc.. It's really quite possible to argue without disrespecting the other side, though it seems that no one ever remembers that on the internet.
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On February 13 2012 12:58 Shellshock1122 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 13 2012 12:45 gulati wrote:
The day Jaedong switches to SC2, I'll be laughing at anyone who even remembers what a "NesTea" is. People remember players that win titles in brood war right? Even 3 titles in sc2 has to be worth remembering
It's not as big of a deal when they are literally every month
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Money talks, we all know that. I just hope that whoever is after the lucrative dollars also has a passion to showcase.
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On February 13 2012 14:44 getSome[703] wrote:Show nested quote +On February 13 2012 12:58 Shellshock1122 wrote:On February 13 2012 12:45 gulati wrote:
The day Jaedong switches to SC2, I'll be laughing at anyone who even remembers what a "NesTea" is. People remember players that win titles in brood war right? Even 3 titles in sc2 has to be worth remembering It's not as big of a deal when they are literally every month
Well its 5 per year this year, so i guess winning a gsl championship will be more meaningful now?
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On February 13 2012 14:55 Biggun69 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 13 2012 14:44 getSome[703] wrote:On February 13 2012 12:58 Shellshock1122 wrote:On February 13 2012 12:45 gulati wrote:
The day Jaedong switches to SC2, I'll be laughing at anyone who even remembers what a "NesTea" is. People remember players that win titles in brood war right? Even 3 titles in sc2 has to be worth remembering It's not as big of a deal when they are literally every month Well its 5 per year this year, so i guess winning a gsl championship will be more meaningful now?
Yes, having only 5 GSL championships as opposed to 12 will make winning it more meaningful.
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While I think the original article is pretty silly, I find it hilarious how everyone ignores the fact that every BW switch-over to date has been at least somewhat 'relevant' to the top of SC2 scene, even completely washed out and terrible players like Sangho or Fruitdealer. :p you can argue all you want whether top BW players switching would 'dominate' or not, but seeing all the claims of 'different skillset' and 'not relevant', all the while EVERY ex-BW Korean to date has been 'successful' is pretty funny.
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EPT
