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On January 30 2012 00:27 Neelia wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2012 00:18 setzer wrote:On January 30 2012 00:02 Eee wrote:On January 29 2012 23:58 Neelia wrote:On January 29 2012 23:29 raga4ka wrote:On January 29 2012 22:58 Squeegy wrote:On January 29 2012 22:55 Sanjuro wrote:On January 29 2012 22:46 raga4ka wrote:On January 29 2012 22:34 Sanjuro wrote:On January 29 2012 22:22 raga4ka wrote:
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What about Hyun ? He practised SC2 for 3 months and dominated Jinro who practises SC2 in the oGs house since SC2's release ? You can't deny the BW pro's results . Seriously where do you guys get the facts for "he has been practicing for amount of time and he dominates bla bla bla" Please don't use that as an argument. He joined TSL in november and thats when he started playing competitively . Yeah he probably played games before on ladder , but has only competed professionaly for 3 months and as you can see he made Code A and beat Jinro in the FXOpen . You can't deny this results . Not to mention that he couldn't have possibly been playing more then 6 months since he was playing BW for MBCgame before they disbannded and only switched recently because no team picked him up . So i am pretty sure he hasn't played more then four months of SC2 maximum . So its 6 months now? come on guys... ill see an elephant when one of them wins a GSL, not when they win a match All GSL winners except Polt? Capu: Motivation is a good point. Some people will not make it because they lost the spark and simply are not trying that hard. Exactly everyone who has won a GSL except Polt are former BW pros . Jjakji is a former BW pro? He's only 17, so I dont think so. He was a practice partner but I don't think he was actually on any professional team (he isn't in TLPD). Any source on that? Thanks. 
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=241675
Second to last question.
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On January 30 2012 00:31 paradoxOO9 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2012 22:34 Sanjuro wrote:
Seriously where do you guys get the facts for "he has been practicing for amount of time and he dominates bla bla bla" Please don't use that as an argument. Quoted from Hyun's liquipedia: http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/HyuNShow nested quote +HyuN began playing StarCraft II in November 2011, and was able to move up to Master League within the month [1]. On November 28th, he eventually stepped-up and joined Team SCV Life [2]. He stated that he planned to qualify for the first GSL Code A Championship of 2012, and to compete in foreign events as well [1]. He eventually managed to earn a spot in Code A at his first attempt, in the 2012 Global StarCraft II League Season 1 preliminaries, with a win over Weekend. People may be exaggerating the amount of time fOrGG played, but Hyun is going to be very good after looking at his recent games.
Hyun lost 0-3 to Golden in the NA Zotac final yesterday.
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On January 29 2012 22:06 Bd.Snake wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2012 22:01 Squeegy wrote:On January 29 2012 21:27 Choboo wrote:On January 29 2012 17:43 dsousa wrote:
Sase over ForGG 2-0 in the FXOpen... or
White Dude dominates former BW Proleague Champion and defeater of Flash.
0.0 To be fair SaSe represents the other elephant (the WC3 one) I don't think it's an elephant because people don't know what you mean. What do you mean? In the foriegner scene the war 3 switches have done better then the foreign bw switches in Star 2
Very dubious.
Huk, Idra, Jinro, Dimaga, Mana, Sen, Ret, White Ra, Morrow stacks up just fine against Naniwa, Thorzain, Stephano, HasuObs, Kas.
I'd say overall BW foreigners have done slightly better.
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On January 30 2012 01:07 Seraphone wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2012 22:06 Bd.Snake wrote:On January 29 2012 22:01 Squeegy wrote:On January 29 2012 21:27 Choboo wrote:On January 29 2012 17:43 dsousa wrote:
Sase over ForGG 2-0 in the FXOpen... or
White Dude dominates former BW Proleague Champion and defeater of Flash.
0.0 To be fair SaSe represents the other elephant (the WC3 one) I don't think it's an elephant because people don't know what you mean. What do you mean? In the foriegner scene the war 3 switches have done better then the foreign bw switches in Star 2 Very dubious. Huk, Idra, Jinro, Dimaga, Mana, Sen, Ret, White Ra, Morrow stacks up just fine against Naniwa, Thorzain, Stephano, HasuObs, Kas. I'd say overall BW foreigners have done slightly better.
Xigua!
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On January 30 2012 00:06 frucisky wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2012 23:58 Neelia wrote:On January 29 2012 23:29 raga4ka wrote:On January 29 2012 22:58 Squeegy wrote:On January 29 2012 22:55 Sanjuro wrote:On January 29 2012 22:46 raga4ka wrote:On January 29 2012 22:34 Sanjuro wrote:On January 29 2012 22:22 raga4ka wrote:On January 29 2012 17:43 dsousa wrote:
Sase over ForGG 2-0 in the FXOpen... or
White Dude dominates former BW Proleague Champion and defeater of Flash.
0.0 What about Hyun ? He practised SC2 for 3 months and dominated Jinro who practises SC2 in the oGs house since SC2's release ? You can't deny the BW pro's results . Seriously where do you guys get the facts for "he has been practicing for amount of time and he dominates bla bla bla" Please don't use that as an argument. He joined TSL in november and thats when he started playing competitively . Yeah he probably played games before on ladder , but has only competed professionaly for 3 months and as you can see he made Code A and beat Jinro in the FXOpen . You can't deny this results . Not to mention that he couldn't have possibly been playing more then 6 months since he was playing BW for MBCgame before they disbannded and only switched recently because no team picked him up . So i am pretty sure he hasn't played more then four months of SC2 maximum . So its 6 months now? come on guys... ill see an elephant when one of them wins a GSL, not when they win a match All GSL winners except Polt? Capu: Motivation is a good point. Some people will not make it because they lost the spark and simply are not trying that hard. Exactly everyone who has won a GSL except Polt are former BW pros . Jjakji is a former BW pro? And I heard Nestea and MC are B-teamers. I really think BW players bring over a good work ethic and good mechanics so they learn the game faster and get to the current state of play faster. Doesn't mean they are naturally better and win GSLs left and right.
Both were a-teamers at various points. They both got to play televised matches. Saying they were b-teamers is accurate in terms of their skill level when they started sc2, but it's not like Boxer and July were playing every week. In fact wasn't July briefly demoted to the b-team? I remember one of them was. I guess I just want to point out that in their day they were at least a-teamers .
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On January 30 2012 01:14 Eee wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2012 01:07 Seraphone wrote:On January 29 2012 22:06 Bd.Snake wrote:On January 29 2012 22:01 Squeegy wrote:On January 29 2012 21:27 Choboo wrote:On January 29 2012 17:43 dsousa wrote:
Sase over ForGG 2-0 in the FXOpen... or
White Dude dominates former BW Proleague Champion and defeater of Flash.
0.0 To be fair SaSe represents the other elephant (the WC3 one) I don't think it's an elephant because people don't know what you mean. What do you mean? In the foriegner scene the war 3 switches have done better then the foreign bw switches in Star 2 Very dubious. Huk, Idra, Jinro, Dimaga, Mana, Sen, Ret, White Ra, Morrow stacks up just fine against Naniwa, Thorzain, Stephano, HasuObs, Kas. I'd say overall BW foreigners have done slightly better. Xigua!
Aren't chinese players a scene of their own though ? I remember in BW there was like the korean, the chinese and the foreigner's scene . Also Nerchio was a former BW player from what i read from Liquipedia so i would say that the foreigner BW scene is doing slightly better .
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To just call Nestea/MC bad bw pros is sooo wrong.
Yes MC has a loosing record in pro leage, but a pro team doesn't keep sending you out in televised games when you are bad, until open season 3 he was known to have huge nerve issues and he was probably doing really well in practice in bw.
Nestea was an A teamer before he did his military service, a very promising up and coming pro gamer in fact, but then he got pushed into 2 v 2s and all that stuff and was way too far behind everyone else after his military service (you know similiar to how boxer didn't win anything after he did his military service).
MVP was a A teamer and had a top4 or maybe top8 OSL finish before he switched.
Also right now none of the progamers that one an OSL/MSL that switched have won anything major in sc2..
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MVP made it to the RO8 in the Hana Daetoo MSL.
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On January 30 2012 03:21 Lorch wrote:
To just call Nestea/MC bad bw pros is sooo wrong.
Yes MC has a loosing record in pro leage, but a pro team doesn't keep sending you out in televised games when you are bad, until open season 3 he was known to have huge nerve issues and he was probably doing really well in practice in bw.
Nestea was an A teamer before he did his military service, a very promising up and coming pro gamer in fact, but then he got pushed into 2 v 2s and all that stuff and was way too far behind everyone else after his military service (you know similiar to how boxer didn't win anything after he did his military service).
MVP was a A teamer and had a top4 or maybe top8 OSL finish before he switched.
Also right now none of the progamers that one an OSL/MSL that switched have won anything major in sc2..
They we're mediocre. A big reason MC got sent out in Proleague is because the other protosses on MBC when MC played for them were Jaehoon and Tyson sooo yeaaah that is a bad example. The last time a current SC2 pro won an OSL/MSL was 2008(ForGG's MSL) that's almost 4 years ago then you can ask why hasn't Fruitdealer won a GSL since 2010? It only been little over a year. Players just become bad at one point or another. There are a shit ton of factors that go into that, that we'll probably never know (cuz we can't read minds unfourtunately)
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The SC2 scene is in its infancy. Any comparison to Brood War is just stupid to be honest. Brood War has the advantage of YEARS in terms of development, both in terms of game strategy and practice strategy. Saying something like "Flash would destroy everyone if he switched!1!!11" isn't a very profound discovery. Flash probably would dominate people in SC2 because he's INSANELY good at RTS and has years of experience. It has nothing to do with what game he is playing. Give the SC2 scene time and it will reach the level of BW.
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On January 30 2012 03:21 Lorch wrote:
To just call Nestea/MC bad bw pros is sooo wrong.
Yes MC has a loosing record in pro leage, but a pro team doesn't keep sending you out in televised games when you are bad, until open season 3 he was known to have huge nerve issues and he was probably doing really well in practice in bw.
Nestea was an A teamer before he did his military service, a very promising up and coming pro gamer in fact, but then he got pushed into 2 v 2s and all that stuff and was way too far behind everyone else after his military service (you know similiar to how boxer didn't win anything after he did his military service).
MVP was a A teamer and had a top4 or maybe top8 OSL finish before he switched.
Also right now none of the progamers that one an OSL/MSL that switched have won anything major in sc2..
MC has a 10 % win ratio, calling him bad is an understatement. And it’s not like he got sent out in Proleague all the time – he played six games.
Zergbong a promising up and coming player? Who the hell told you that, he has sucked since 2002. The reason that he got pushed into 2v2 is exactly because of that. No good player has ever been forced to play 2v2 in their prime.
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On January 30 2012 01:07 Seraphone wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2012 22:06 Bd.Snake wrote:On January 29 2012 22:01 Squeegy wrote:On January 29 2012 21:27 Choboo wrote:On January 29 2012 17:43 dsousa wrote:
Sase over ForGG 2-0 in the FXOpen... or
White Dude dominates former BW Proleague Champion and defeater of Flash.
0.0 To be fair SaSe represents the other elephant (the WC3 one) I don't think it's an elephant because people don't know what you mean. What do you mean? In the foriegner scene the war 3 switches have done better then the foreign bw switches in Star 2 Very dubious. Huk, Idra, Jinro, Dimaga, Mana, Sen, Ret, White Ra, Morrow stacks up just fine against Naniwa, Thorzain, Stephano, HasuObs, Kas. I'd say overall BW foreigners have done slightly better.
THe funny thing is top 5 foreign TLPD are all former WC3 players.
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On January 30 2012 05:10 canikizu wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2012 01:07 Seraphone wrote:On January 29 2012 22:06 Bd.Snake wrote:On January 29 2012 22:01 Squeegy wrote:On January 29 2012 21:27 Choboo wrote:On January 29 2012 17:43 dsousa wrote:
Sase over ForGG 2-0 in the FXOpen... or
White Dude dominates former BW Proleague Champion and defeater of Flash.
0.0 To be fair SaSe represents the other elephant (the WC3 one) I don't think it's an elephant because people don't know what you mean. What do you mean? In the foriegner scene the war 3 switches have done better then the foreign bw switches in Star 2 Very dubious. Huk, Idra, Jinro, Dimaga, Mana, Sen, Ret, White Ra, Morrow stacks up just fine against Naniwa, Thorzain, Stephano, HasuObs, Kas. I'd say overall BW foreigners have done slightly better. THe funny thing is top 5 foreign TLPD are all former WC3 players.
Mana is former bw, but yes TLPD begs to differ.
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On January 30 2012 03:54 Bigtony wrote:
The SC2 scene is in its infancy. Any comparison to Brood War is just stupid to be honest. Brood War has the advantage of YEARS in terms of development, both in terms of game strategy and practice strategy. Saying something like "Flash would destroy everyone if he switched!1!!11" isn't a very profound discovery. Flash probably would dominate people in SC2 because he's INSANELY good at RTS and has years of experience. It has nothing to do with what game he is playing. Give the SC2 scene time and it will reach the level of BW.
But most top players have years of experience as well from another game. I don't think it is at all clear that SC2 will reach the level of BW. No other RTS so far has been even close. I would say SC2 certainly has the most potential but it is not at all obvious.
To the people who were mistakenly understood that we are arguing that former GSL champions were elephants: That wasn't the point. Point was that every GSL winner (except Polt) has been from BW. I would dare assert that something like at least 90% of the top players are from BW. And there is some correlation between their level in BW and their level in SC2. That is why MVP has been considered for a good part of the game the best. There is then a good reason to think that the BW guys who have the thirst and the talent to succeed, will bring the skill level of this game up by amounts that no other player has done. It will not be by that much however unless the whole BW pro-scene switches. Players are, in a way, bound by their scene. The better you are the slower you will learn (compared to the scene). The worse you are the faster you will learn (compared to the scene). What I wrote here is rather ambiguous and not as general as I make it sound. Ask for clarification if you wish.
Also, according to TLPD Happy is the second best foreigner. Moonglade the sixth. Beastygt better than Naniwa. Perhaps that is enough to show you that TLPD for foreigners isn't indicator of much anything. It works in Korean BW where the leagues are standardized and in which everyone tries to play. Perhaps for Korean SC2 too if you only count GSL.
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On January 30 2012 05:10 canikizu wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2012 01:07 Seraphone wrote:On January 29 2012 22:06 Bd.Snake wrote:On January 29 2012 22:01 Squeegy wrote:On January 29 2012 21:27 Choboo wrote:On January 29 2012 17:43 dsousa wrote:
Sase over ForGG 2-0 in the FXOpen... or
White Dude dominates former BW Proleague Champion and defeater of Flash.
0.0 To be fair SaSe represents the other elephant (the WC3 one) I don't think it's an elephant because people don't know what you mean. What do you mean? In the foriegner scene the war 3 switches have done better then the foreign bw switches in Star 2 Very dubious. Huk, Idra, Jinro, Dimaga, Mana, Sen, Ret, White Ra, Morrow stacks up just fine against Naniwa, Thorzain, Stephano, HasuObs, Kas. I'd say overall BW foreigners have done slightly better. THe funny thing is top 5 foreign TLPD are all former WC3 players.
He was talking about results, and there has been nothing conclusive over which foreign scene has done better. Some tournaments WC3 players do really well and in others they fall flat on their face.
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On January 30 2012 05:10 canikizu wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2012 01:07 Seraphone wrote:On January 29 2012 22:06 Bd.Snake wrote:On January 29 2012 22:01 Squeegy wrote:On January 29 2012 21:27 Choboo wrote:On January 29 2012 17:43 dsousa wrote:
Sase over ForGG 2-0 in the FXOpen... or
White Dude dominates former BW Proleague Champion and defeater of Flash.
0.0 To be fair SaSe represents the other elephant (the WC3 one) I don't think it's an elephant because people don't know what you mean. What do you mean? In the foriegner scene the war 3 switches have done better then the foreign bw switches in Star 2 Very dubious. Huk, Idra, Jinro, Dimaga, Mana, Sen, Ret, White Ra, Morrow stacks up just fine against Naniwa, Thorzain, Stephano, HasuObs, Kas. I'd say overall BW foreigners have done slightly better. THe funny thing is top 5 foreign TLPD are all former WC3 players.
Ahh, so by your accounts Happy is the 2nd best foreigner and the best terran foreigner?
And hmm, according to the Korean one Curious is now the 4th best player in the world, and the 2nd best zerg/
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Ok, I have an idea.
Flash vs Stephano in SC2. Someone make a showmatch, with 50k to the winner, 20k to the loser.... open ended invitation anytime Flash wants to accept.
Certainly BW elitists should view the French WC3 player Stephano as no threat, so if Flash can't beat Stephano.... then the elephant is dead :D
Best of 31 supermatch!
The world needs this!
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On January 30 2012 02:55 raga4ka wrote:
Aren't chinese players a scene of their own though ? I remember in BW there was like the korean, the chinese and the foreigner's scene . Also Nerchio was a former BW player from what i read from Liquipedia so i would say that the foreigner BW scene is doing slightly better .
Poland had their own servers/ladder and Russia did as well. It goes way beyond that. Doesn't mean we didn't get to play them because we sure as hell did.
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On January 30 2012 06:34 dsousa wrote:
Ok, I have an idea.
Flash vs Stephano in SC2. Someone make a showmatch, with 50k to the winner, 20k to the loser.... open ended invitation anytime Flash wants to accept.
Certainly BW elitists should view the French WC3 player Stephano as no threat, so if Flash can't beat Stephano.... then the elephant is dead :D
Best of 31 supermatch!
The world needs this!
And how realistic do you think this proposition is? I really have no idea what your point is.
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On January 30 2012 02:55 raga4ka wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2012 01:14 Eee wrote:On January 30 2012 01:07 Seraphone wrote:On January 29 2012 22:06 Bd.Snake wrote:On January 29 2012 22:01 Squeegy wrote:On January 29 2012 21:27 Choboo wrote:On January 29 2012 17:43 dsousa wrote:
Sase over ForGG 2-0 in the FXOpen... or
White Dude dominates former BW Proleague Champion and defeater of Flash.
0.0 To be fair SaSe represents the other elephant (the WC3 one) I don't think it's an elephant because people don't know what you mean. What do you mean? In the foriegner scene the war 3 switches have done better then the foreign bw switches in Star 2 Very dubious. Huk, Idra, Jinro, Dimaga, Mana, Sen, Ret, White Ra, Morrow stacks up just fine against Naniwa, Thorzain, Stephano, HasuObs, Kas. I'd say overall BW foreigners have done slightly better. Xigua! Aren't chinese players a scene of their own though ? I remember in BW there was like the korean, the chinese and the foreigner's scene . Also Nerchio was a former BW player from what i read from Liquipedia so i would say that the foreigner BW scene is doing slightly better .
they were in BW, but this is sc2. If we consider Sen to be a foreigner, who is from Taiwan which means he even shares the same server as the koreans. Then according to that logic China should be considerd foreigner and not a seperate one.
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EPT
