• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 15:48
CEST 21:48
KST 04:48
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL22] Ro4 Preview: Mirror Mirror4[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: Within Reach5[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: In A Tizzy11[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Holy Diver5[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Rough Waters10
Community News
SC4ALL: II SC2 Complete Invited Player Lineup10StarCraft II 5.0.17 PTR Patch Notes (Sept 30, 2026)73Weekly Cups (Sept 21-27): herO and ByuN double2Weekly Cups (Sep 13-20): herO scores triple3BSL Season 2316
StarCraft 2
General
StarCraft II 5.0.17 PTR Patch Notes (Sept 30, 2026) SC4ALL: II SC2 Complete Invited Player Lineup How do you feel about the mass reverts in the 5.0.17 PTR? Back to SC2 after 14 years - Protoss CTRL groups? October World Ranking: herO stays #1, ByuN returns
Tourneys
Stellar Fest TWO the Moon (Dec 16-20) Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament 2026 GSTL Grand Finals Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond) SC2 INu's Battles#21 [ 3-Days tournament ]
Strategy
[H] ZvP Mid-Late Game: Stalkers Collossi HT
Custom Maps
[M] (2) Sweltering Sands [M] (2) Frigid Storage
External Content
Mutation # 546 Catch the Train The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 545 And Drops and Rifts Mutation # 544 Double Trouble
Brood War
General
20-year-old Valorant player starting StarCraft Sagi.gg Launcher Released Fantasy returning? Bot on ladder [ASL22] Ro4 Preview: Mirror Mirror
Tourneys
[ASL22] Semifinal A [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [ASL22] Ro8 Day 4 2v2v2v2 Tournament
Strategy
Cliff Jump Revisited (1 in a 1000 strategy) Replay Review Process - What do you do? Simple Questions, Simple Answers Odyssey Mineral Stack Saturation
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread General RTS Discussion Thread Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Total Annihilation Zero
Dota 2
Dota 2 Champions League Season 3 Begins April 25! Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Canadian Politics Mega-thread Artificial Intelligence Thread
Fan Clubs
Serral Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Diablo Animated Series on Netflix
Sports
Football (Soccer) Thread MLB/Baseball 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
Recent Gifted Posts
Blogs
[ASL22] Ro4 Day1 Ticket Giv…
bITt.mAN
Escaping Into Video Games: G…
TrAiDoS
38 yo Retired SWE loo…
PurE)Rabbit-SF
Can Bots Beat Pros?? Starcr…
namkraft
[meme] I finally understa…
LUCKY_NOOB
Regacy Esports:Our Goa…
regacyesports
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 8530 users

The Elephant in the Room - Page 250

Forum Index > Final Edits
6514 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 248 249 250 251 252 326 Next
Whatson
Profile Blog Joined January 2012
United States5357 Posts
January 29 2012 06:45 GMT
#4981
On January 29 2012 15:29 Apollo_Shards wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 29 2012 15:13 Whatson wrote:
On January 29 2012 15:07 Apollo_Shards wrote:
On January 29 2012 15:04 1Eris1 wrote:
On January 29 2012 14:47 Steveling wrote:
MMA didn't have his current work ethic in bw, just saying. Also he wasn't in the scene for long. Shortly after he joined sc2 was announced so he decided to play the new game since he didn't have any emotional ties with bw.
If he was playing bw as he is now, he would be s class.



I was going to agree with you until you said he would be S class.

Get that crap out of here, you have no idea what that means for BW


We'll see when BW dies and he switches over.

You're going to have to wait for a long time...as long as there is money to be made in BW, there is no way that Flash is switching over.



The BW scene is anemicin my opinion. What do you guys get now? The occasional teamleague? Compare that to the endless amount of SC2 tournaments. There looks like there is much more money to be made in SC2, so money wont hold them forever.

...just saying I play SC2 more than I play BW LOL..so you're sort of grouping 'you guys' into the wrong category.
The only problem with 'the occasional teamleague' is that it gets twice as many viewers in Korea, and it generates so much more money. Honestly, it's only in the international scene that SC2 is ahead of BW.
¯\_(シ)_/¯
nvs.
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Canada3609 Posts
January 29 2012 07:16 GMT
#4982
On January 29 2012 15:45 Whatson wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 29 2012 15:29 Apollo_Shards wrote:
On January 29 2012 15:13 Whatson wrote:
On January 29 2012 15:07 Apollo_Shards wrote:
On January 29 2012 15:04 1Eris1 wrote:
On January 29 2012 14:47 Steveling wrote:
MMA didn't have his current work ethic in bw, just saying. Also he wasn't in the scene for long. Shortly after he joined sc2 was announced so he decided to play the new game since he didn't have any emotional ties with bw.
If he was playing bw as he is now, he would be s class.



I was going to agree with you until you said he would be S class.

Get that crap out of here, you have no idea what that means for BW


We'll see when BW dies and he switches over.

You're going to have to wait for a long time...as long as there is money to be made in BW, there is no way that Flash is switching over.



The BW scene is anemicin my opinion. What do you guys get now? The occasional teamleague? Compare that to the endless amount of SC2 tournaments. There looks like there is much more money to be made in SC2, so money wont hold them forever.

...just saying I play SC2 more than I play BW LOL..so you're sort of grouping 'you guys' into the wrong category.
The only problem with 'the occasional teamleague' is that it gets twice as many viewers in Korea, and it generates so much more money. Honestly, it's only in the international scene that SC2 is ahead of BW.


Sometimes you can hear crickets in the SC2 GOM studio. =(
dsousa
Profile Joined October 2011
United States1363 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-01-29 08:45:38
January 29 2012 08:43 GMT
#4983
Sase over ForGG 2-0 in the FXOpen... or

White Dude dominates former BW Proleague Champion and defeater of Flash.

0.0
Uncultured
Profile Joined September 2010
United States1340 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-01-29 09:33:54
January 29 2012 09:30 GMT
#4984
On January 29 2012 16:16 nvs. wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 29 2012 15:45 Whatson wrote:
On January 29 2012 15:29 Apollo_Shards wrote:
On January 29 2012 15:13 Whatson wrote:
On January 29 2012 15:07 Apollo_Shards wrote:
On January 29 2012 15:04 1Eris1 wrote:
On January 29 2012 14:47 Steveling wrote:
MMA didn't have his current work ethic in bw, just saying. Also he wasn't in the scene for long. Shortly after he joined sc2 was announced so he decided to play the new game since he didn't have any emotional ties with bw.
If he was playing bw as he is now, he would be s class.



I was going to agree with you until you said he would be S class.

Get that crap out of here, you have no idea what that means for BW


We'll see when BW dies and he switches over.

You're going to have to wait for a long time...as long as there is money to be made in BW, there is no way that Flash is switching over.



The BW scene is anemicin my opinion. What do you guys get now? The occasional teamleague? Compare that to the endless amount of SC2 tournaments. There looks like there is much more money to be made in SC2, so money wont hold them forever.

...just saying I play SC2 more than I play BW LOL..so you're sort of grouping 'you guys' into the wrong category.
The only problem with 'the occasional teamleague' is that it gets twice as many viewers in Korea, and it generates so much more money. Honestly, it's only in the international scene that SC2 is ahead of BW.


Sometimes you can hear crickets in the SC2 GOM studio. =(


It's a league open every day of the work week, every month, all year long. Is there anything like that in BW? I'd be curious to know what sort of number they get. GSL seems to get anywhere from 10-100 people, depending on the players/ stage of the tournament. probably averaging around 20-30.
Don't you rage when you lose too? -FruitDealer
stra
Profile Joined January 2012
5 Posts
January 29 2012 09:33 GMT
#4985
I thought this would be a thread about Patrice O'neal... slightly disapointed.
Squeegy
Profile Joined October 2009
Finland1166 Posts
January 29 2012 12:09 GMT
#4986
On January 29 2012 15:15 Apollo_Shards wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 29 2012 15:12 FlyingDike wrote:
On January 29 2012 15:05 Apollo_Shards wrote:
On January 29 2012 15:02 FlyingDike wrote:
On January 29 2012 14:47 Steveling wrote:
MMA didn't have his current work ethic in bw, just saying. Also he wasn't in the scene for long. Shortly after he joined sc2 was announced so he decided to play the new game since he didn't have any emotional ties with bw.
If he was playing bw as he is now, he would be s class.

I hate it when people post silly statements such as yours. MMA would will never be as talented as Flash.


Thank you for backing up that statement with your wonderful evidence and mountains of data. Since this is the internet I would be incredibly shocked to see somebody be hypocritical by calling someone who uses facts to back up their idea as silly and then post a blatant statement with no evidence.

There is no sense in using reason against delusion. Your remarks do not apply to this case where the truth is obvious.

EDIT: Also, your wrong in implying that he posted "evidence," as any half-witted individual can see.



I'm right because I'm right because its obvious.


Nice try. It's actually your job to provide the evidence not his. Once you have done that only then does he have to refute it.
Stan: Dude, dolphins are intelligent and friendly. Cartman: Intelligent and friendly on rye bread with some mayonnaise.
TyrantPotato
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Australia1541 Posts
January 29 2012 12:14 GMT
#4987
i just realised this was posted on my birthday.....

does that mean....

im going to be the greatest SC2 player ever to live?

brb going to practice my signature
Forever ZeNEX.
Klogon
Profile Blog Joined November 2002
MURICA15980 Posts
January 29 2012 12:14 GMT
#4988
On January 29 2012 18:30 Uncultured wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 29 2012 16:16 nvs. wrote:
On January 29 2012 15:45 Whatson wrote:
On January 29 2012 15:29 Apollo_Shards wrote:
On January 29 2012 15:13 Whatson wrote:
On January 29 2012 15:07 Apollo_Shards wrote:
On January 29 2012 15:04 1Eris1 wrote:
On January 29 2012 14:47 Steveling wrote:
MMA didn't have his current work ethic in bw, just saying. Also he wasn't in the scene for long. Shortly after he joined sc2 was announced so he decided to play the new game since he didn't have any emotional ties with bw.
If he was playing bw as he is now, he would be s class.



I was going to agree with you until you said he would be S class.

Get that crap out of here, you have no idea what that means for BW


We'll see when BW dies and he switches over.

You're going to have to wait for a long time...as long as there is money to be made in BW, there is no way that Flash is switching over.



The BW scene is anemicin my opinion. What do you guys get now? The occasional teamleague? Compare that to the endless amount of SC2 tournaments. There looks like there is much more money to be made in SC2, so money wont hold them forever.

...just saying I play SC2 more than I play BW LOL..so you're sort of grouping 'you guys' into the wrong category.
The only problem with 'the occasional teamleague' is that it gets twice as many viewers in Korea, and it generates so much more money. Honestly, it's only in the international scene that SC2 is ahead of BW.


Sometimes you can hear crickets in the SC2 GOM studio. =(


It's a league open every day of the work week, every month, all year long. Is there anything like that in BW? I'd be curious to know what sort of number they get. GSL seems to get anywhere from 10-100 people, depending on the players/ stage of the tournament. probably averaging around 20-30.


BW's live audience is much larger for sure.
Big J
Profile Joined March 2011
Austria16289 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-01-29 12:22:28
January 29 2012 12:22 GMT
#4989
Please thread die... DIE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Choboo
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Sweden2088 Posts
January 29 2012 12:27 GMT
#4990
On January 29 2012 17:43 dsousa wrote:
Sase over ForGG 2-0 in the FXOpen... or

White Dude dominates former BW Proleague Champion and defeater of Flash.

0.0

To be fair SaSe represents the other elephant (the WC3 one)
SaSe fan club manager
madcow305
Profile Joined January 2010
United States152 Posts
January 29 2012 12:32 GMT
#4991
I really wish some high-roller with deep pockets would make a bet with another high-roller with deep pockets about this issue.

Something like: "If 10 BW players with Proleague records better than MVP's switch to SC2, and none of them win a GSL title within 4 months of switching, I'll donate $100,000 to some charity or use it to fund a tournament."

That would make this thread interesting because it would give stakes to the argument, instead of it being just two sides going back and forth.
Squeegy
Profile Joined October 2009
Finland1166 Posts
January 29 2012 13:01 GMT
#4992
On January 29 2012 21:27 Choboo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 29 2012 17:43 dsousa wrote:
Sase over ForGG 2-0 in the FXOpen... or

White Dude dominates former BW Proleague Champion and defeater of Flash.

0.0

To be fair SaSe represents the other elephant (the WC3 one)


I don't think it's an elephant because people don't know what you mean. What do you mean?
Stan: Dude, dolphins are intelligent and friendly. Cartman: Intelligent and friendly on rye bread with some mayonnaise.
Bd.Snake
Profile Joined October 2011
Australia163 Posts
January 29 2012 13:06 GMT
#4993
On January 29 2012 22:01 Squeegy wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 29 2012 21:27 Choboo wrote:
On January 29 2012 17:43 dsousa wrote:
Sase over ForGG 2-0 in the FXOpen... or

White Dude dominates former BW Proleague Champion and defeater of Flash.

0.0

To be fair SaSe represents the other elephant (the WC3 one)


I don't think it's an elephant because people don't know what you mean. What do you mean?

In the foriegner scene the war 3 switches have done better then the foreign bw switches in Star 2
Well see the thing of it is you know theres alot of ugly people out there walking around but they dont know there ugly because nobody actually tells them
Eee
Profile Joined August 2011
Sweden2712 Posts
January 29 2012 13:12 GMT
#4994
On January 29 2012 22:01 Squeegy wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 29 2012 21:27 Choboo wrote:
On January 29 2012 17:43 dsousa wrote:
Sase over ForGG 2-0 in the FXOpen... or

White Dude dominates former BW Proleague Champion and defeater of Flash.

0.0

To be fair SaSe represents the other elephant (the WC3 one)


I don't think it's an elephant because people don't know what you mean. What do you mean?

He means the wc3 pros. Sase was one of the foreigners that lived in China (wc3 mecca) and managed to compete with the Chinese players. Many people (at least in eu) have been discussing whether if players like sky, fly100%, infi,th000 will be able to dominate the sc2 scene since the mid tier and low tier wc3 players that switched over have had much success (nani, kas, thorzain, sjow etc.)
Longshank
Profile Joined March 2010
1648 Posts
January 29 2012 13:14 GMT
#4995
On January 29 2012 22:06 Bd.Snake wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 29 2012 22:01 Squeegy wrote:
On January 29 2012 21:27 Choboo wrote:
On January 29 2012 17:43 dsousa wrote:
Sase over ForGG 2-0 in the FXOpen... or

White Dude dominates former BW Proleague Champion and defeater of Flash.

0.0

To be fair SaSe represents the other elephant (the WC3 one)


I don't think it's an elephant because people don't know what you mean. What do you mean?

In the foriegner scene the war 3 switches have done better then the foreign bw switches in Star 2

No they haven't, it's pretty much equal between the two games. There is no WC3 version of the elephant, that's ridiculous. Choboo doesn't understand the concept laid out in the OP.
Longshank
Profile Joined March 2010
1648 Posts
January 29 2012 13:16 GMT
#4996
On January 29 2012 22:12 Eee wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 29 2012 22:01 Squeegy wrote:
On January 29 2012 21:27 Choboo wrote:
On January 29 2012 17:43 dsousa wrote:
Sase over ForGG 2-0 in the FXOpen... or

White Dude dominates former BW Proleague Champion and defeater of Flash.

0.0

To be fair SaSe represents the other elephant (the WC3 one)


I don't think it's an elephant because people don't know what you mean. What do you mean?

He means the wc3 pros. Sase was one of the foreigners that lived in China (wc3 mecca) and managed to compete with the Chinese players. Many people (at least in eu) have been discussing whether if players like sky, fly100%, infi,th000 will be able to dominate the sc2 scene since the mid tier and low tier wc3 players that switched over have had much success (nani, kas, thorzain, sjow etc.)


That has already been answered by players like Grubby, Happy, Infi and Check.
Squeegy
Profile Joined October 2009
Finland1166 Posts
January 29 2012 13:18 GMT
#4997
On January 29 2012 22:12 Eee wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 29 2012 22:01 Squeegy wrote:
On January 29 2012 21:27 Choboo wrote:
On January 29 2012 17:43 dsousa wrote:
Sase over ForGG 2-0 in the FXOpen... or

White Dude dominates former BW Proleague Champion and defeater of Flash.

0.0

To be fair SaSe represents the other elephant (the WC3 one)


I don't think it's an elephant because people don't know what you mean. What do you mean?

He means the wc3 pros. Sase was one of the foreigners that lived in China (wc3 mecca) and managed to compete with the Chinese players. Many people (at least in eu) have been discussing whether if players like sky, fly100%, infi,th000 will be able to dominate the sc2 scene since the mid tier and low tier wc3 players that switched over have had much success (nani, kas, thorzain, sjow etc.)


But on the other hand some of (if not) the very best (Moon, Grubby) have not done that well. Including Sase himself. Seems to me that there is not all that much correlation between history in WC3 and SC2. I think the notion of elephant in the room was misunderstood by Choboo.
Stan: Dude, dolphins are intelligent and friendly. Cartman: Intelligent and friendly on rye bread with some mayonnaise.
raga4ka
Profile Joined February 2008
Bulgaria5679 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-01-29 13:40:13
January 29 2012 13:22 GMT
#4998
On January 29 2012 17:43 dsousa wrote:
Sase over ForGG 2-0 in the FXOpen... or

White Dude dominates former BW Proleague Champion and defeater of Flash.

0.0


What about Hyun ? He practised SC2 for 3 months and dominated Jinro who practises SC2 in the oGs house since SC2's release ? You can't deny the BW pro's results . in the end it's all about the practise amount that each player puts in to the game , but BW pros level increase that much quickly by having a lot of skills and experience from BW . Ain't it amazing how in the right environment they progress. A good example is SuperNova who when he switched made Code-S pretty quickly and now he is a top 5 terran .
Sanjuro
Profile Joined November 2010
Indonesia252 Posts
January 29 2012 13:34 GMT
#4999
On January 29 2012 22:22 raga4ka wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 29 2012 17:43 dsousa wrote:
Sase over ForGG 2-0 in the FXOpen... or

White Dude dominates former BW Proleague Champion and defeater of Flash.

0.0


What about Hyun ? He practised SC2 for 3 months and dominated Jinro who practises SC2 in the oGs house since SC2's release ? You can't deny the BW pro's results .


Seriously where do you guys get the facts for "he has been practicing for amount of time and he dominates bla bla bla" Please don't use that as an argument.
im the Villain of the Story, im not meant to be saved
Daray
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
6006 Posts
January 29 2012 13:39 GMT
#5000
On January 29 2012 22:34 Sanjuro wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 29 2012 22:22 raga4ka wrote:
On January 29 2012 17:43 dsousa wrote:
Sase over ForGG 2-0 in the FXOpen... or

White Dude dominates former BW Proleague Champion and defeater of Flash.

0.0


What about Hyun ? He practised SC2 for 3 months and dominated Jinro who practises SC2 in the oGs house since SC2's release ? You can't deny the BW pro's results .


Seriously where do you guys get the facts for "he has been practicing for amount of time and he dominates bla bla bla" Please don't use that as an argument.


I bet 6 months from now people will say ForGG started to practise 6 months ago.
Prev 1 248 249 250 251 252 326 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Monday Night Weeklies
01:00
#66
TKL 1552
RotterdaM953
TaKeTV 366
IndyStarCraft 199
SteadfastSC164
ZombieGrub97
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
TKL 1552
RotterdaM 953
IndyStarCraft 199
MaxPax 179
SteadfastSC 164
RuFF_SC2 142
ZombieGrub97
UpATreeSC 70
MindelVK 23
StarCraft: Brood War
Calm 2722
Shuttle 509
Dewaltoss 110
910 68
Mind 60
Bale 14
Counter-Strike
fl0m3932
pashabiceps1420
Fnx 678
Heroes of the Storm
Grubby4943
Liquid`Hasu571
Other Games
Beastyqt897
summit1g700
shahzam406
mouzStarbuck382
ToD219
C9.Mang0173
Organizations
Other Games
BasetradeTV207
Dota 2
PGL Dota 2 - Main Stream30
[ Show 16 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• kabyraGe 182
• Reevou 6
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• 80smullet 19
• Eskiya23 13
• niya90s 1
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• TFBlade350
Other Games
• imaqtpie860
• Shiphtur334
Upcoming Events
Replay Cast
3h 12m
Afreeca Starleague
14h 12m
Soma vs Soulkey
INu's Battles
15h 12m
SHIN vs Cure
ByuN vs Zoun
PiGosaur Cup
1d 4h
Patches Events
1d 20h
The PondCast
2 days
INu's Battles
2 days
Percival vs TBD
TBD vs herO
OSC
3 days
Replay Cast
3 days
OSC
4 days
[ Show More ]
BSL: Ladder Tournament
4 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
5 days
Patches Events
5 days
BSL Open Qualifier
5 days
BSL Open Qualifier
5 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

CSL 2026 AUTUMN (S22)
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
Copium Cup

Ongoing

ASL Season 22
Super Anchor Qualifying S3
Acropolis #5
Acropolis #5 - GSB
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
1win Private Club #1
Logitech G Play Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #3
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual

Upcoming

Acropolis #5 - GSC
BSL Season 23
SC4ALL II: Brood War
BSL 23: Non-Korean Championship
HSC XXX
Stellar Fest 2: Lunar Cup
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Offline Finals
HCC Season 3
eXTREMESLAND 2026
PGL Major Singapore 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 6
BLAST Rivals Fall 2026
IEM Beijing 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 5
PGL Masters Bucharest 2026
1win Private Club #2
Thunderpick World Champ. '26
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.