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On December 08 2011 21:02 rEalGuapo wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2011 19:55 shinarit wrote:On December 08 2011 17:44 DarkMatter_ wrote:
BW is purely about mechanics whereas SC2 is all about strategy so BW pros won't actually do well in SC2. Wait, do you even PLAY this game? SC2 is still demanding mechanically. Not as much as BW, but you have to click really fast. And we just scratching the surface of micro possibilities yet. Yeah, macro is easier, but macro is boring anyways, so its not a problem. On December 08 2011 17:46 Itsmedudeman wrote:
A lot of people coming in here to say "yeah, no shit!" No shit no shit, it's called the elephant in the room for a reason. It's the whole god damn point. An elephant would be something everyone knows of, but shyly not talks about. What people refer to when they say "no shit!!" its the fact, that OP states trivialities, and theres nothing suprising in this. The TL;DR of op would be something like this: "The more you practice, the better you will get. ps: also, SC2 sucks." TL;DR "Some players are untouchable like Boxer , Nada, Jaedong and Flash. Boxer and Nada already play SC2, not that great. So what till Jaedong and Flash join, they will be unstoppable" <- which to me just seems a retarded way to prove a point, but whatever... What OP actually means is: "I'm a little fangirl and you are all stupid, same as every pro right now, ps: also, SC2 sucks" Edit: The more I read it the more I hate it. All he does in OP is state statistics, which is fine. Sadly those statistics are from a different game and do not help to prove his point at all (again comparing Nada to MC in SC2 and BW) Then he says that players that were better in BW will do better in SC2, which he just proved wrong (as far as statistics go). and for the argument that those are two different games he just says "I know that these are different games but Flash is so good he will destroy everyone." WHAT KIND OF AN ARGUMENT IS THAT!? "I know you don't believe me this without proof, so here is that proof: It just is that way, mmkay?" Overall I think there is little doubt that a player who will train a lot more and propably with better set goals will become good faster than others. Even though "Jinro" who trains in Korea for a year and has shown nothing the past 8 months, congratz to him, says Flash could take a game off of MVP or MMA within a week of practice, I think that is just complete Bullshit. Why would you think that a person who played something else for sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo long and has THAT PARTICULAR GAME set soooooooooooooooooooo deep in his bones should just straight out do amazing!? Maybe the reason why those hardcore gamers Struggle is that they have spend incredible amounts of time on BW. Maybe they are sort of stuck in it and it takes a ton of effort to completely switch to SC2, if that is even possible. OR MAYBE SC2 and SC1 need different "Skills" and someone who was brilliant in SC1 is decent in SC2 if he lacks the necessary skills, vice versa. Either way, I have no idea, neither do you. So please don't state facts that are just bullshit pulled out of your ass.
First, you should really tone down your rhetoric. It's an opinion piece, so the author can say whatever he wants. And this isn't that hard to understand. I didn't even watch BW, but the author is arguing that Flash, JD are just that much better than everyone, even Boxer and Nada in their prime. And RTS games are RTS. I came from WC3 and had a fairly easy time switching over. I imagine the switch from BW is even easier, since both are economy focused RTS games. In the end, you are suggesting the opposite of the OP without anything at all the back it up, while the author at least states his claims with some reason behind it.
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On December 08 2011 21:02 rEalGuapo wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2011 19:55 shinarit wrote:On December 08 2011 17:44 DarkMatter_ wrote:
BW is purely about mechanics whereas SC2 is all about strategy so BW pros won't actually do well in SC2. Wait, do you even PLAY this game? SC2 is still demanding mechanically. Not as much as BW, but you have to click really fast. And we just scratching the surface of micro possibilities yet. Yeah, macro is easier, but macro is boring anyways, so its not a problem. On December 08 2011 17:46 Itsmedudeman wrote:
A lot of people coming in here to say "yeah, no shit!" No shit no shit, it's called the elephant in the room for a reason. It's the whole god damn point. An elephant would be something everyone knows of, but shyly not talks about. What people refer to when they say "no shit!!" its the fact, that OP states trivialities, and theres nothing suprising in this. The TL;DR of op would be something like this: "The more you practice, the better you will get. ps: also, SC2 sucks." TL;DR "Some players are untouchable like Boxer , Nada, Jaedong and Flash. Boxer and Nada already play SC2, not that great. So what till Jaedong and Flash join, they will be unstoppable" <- which to me just seems a retarded way to prove a point, but whatever... Dude, this has already been explained like a million times. Boxer and Nada were once legends in BW but those days are long, long gone. Towards the end of their BW careers, they were just washed up old pros who couldn't even make it out of the qualifying rounds of a starleague. They were pretty much some of the weakest players in the BW scene around the time of their switch. Despite that, they still managed to do reasonably well in SC2.
Flash and Jaedong are in an entirely different league compared to Boxer and Nada. They are the dominant figures in modern day BW and their skill level is far, far superior to that of Boxer and Nada. Would it kill you guys to learn a bit more about the history of BW before getting involved in these arguments and making ignorant remarks?
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On December 08 2011 21:30 shinarit wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2011 21:26 DarkMatter_ wrote:On December 08 2011 19:55 shinarit wrote:On December 08 2011 17:44 DarkMatter_ wrote:
BW is purely about mechanics whereas SC2 is all about strategy so BW pros won't actually do well in SC2. Wait, do you even PLAY this game? SC2 is still demanding mechanically. Not as much as BW, but you have to click really fast. And we just scratching the surface of micro possibilities yet. Yeah, macro is easier, but macro is boring anyways, so its not a problem. Read my post again (and this time, read the whole thing and not quote half a sentence out of context). I didn't say what you seem to think I'm saying. I read your post. You try to say that BW to SC2 is something like basketball to chess. Which is a very stupid analogy, and very not true. With the same mechanic capabilities people would do more amazing stuff in SC2, so its equally demanding, just in other areas.
I repeat: read again. This is what I said:
"There are are a ton of SC2 people who didn't seem to get the memo because they constantly insist that saying that a top BW pro would dominate SC2 is the same as saying that Michael Jordan would dominate at chess, and that BW is purely about mechanics whereas SC2 is all about strategy so BW pros won't actually do well in SC2."
"They" in this case would be a subgroup of SC2 fans.
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On December 08 2011 21:44 DarkMatter_ wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2011 21:30 shinarit wrote:On December 08 2011 21:26 DarkMatter_ wrote:On December 08 2011 19:55 shinarit wrote:On December 08 2011 17:44 DarkMatter_ wrote:
BW is purely about mechanics whereas SC2 is all about strategy so BW pros won't actually do well in SC2. Wait, do you even PLAY this game? SC2 is still demanding mechanically. Not as much as BW, but you have to click really fast. And we just scratching the surface of micro possibilities yet. Yeah, macro is easier, but macro is boring anyways, so its not a problem. Read my post again (and this time, read the whole thing and not quote half a sentence out of context). I didn't say what you seem to think I'm saying. I read your post. You try to say that BW to SC2 is something like basketball to chess. Which is a very stupid analogy, and very not true. With the same mechanic capabilities people would do more amazing stuff in SC2, so its equally demanding, just in other areas. I repeat: read again. This is what I said: "There are are a ton of SC2 people who didn't seem to get the memo because they constantly insist that saying that a top BW pro would dominate SC2 is the same as saying that Michael Jordan would dominate at chess, and that BW is purely about mechanics whereas SC2 is all about strategy so BW pros won't actually do well in SC2." "They" in this case would be a subgroup of SC2 fans.
If BW is basketball and SC2 is chess, then I know what I'll be watching 
Also, epic bump HotBid.
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I have a slightly relevant question to ask because this has been debated a bit in other places as well but not in depth ( so far as I recall, forgive me if it's been discussed before and point me in that direction). If JD, Bisu and Flash switched over and kept their current races who do you think would be successful first and who would be most successful long term? None of the races are exactly like they used to be in BW and not all old playstyles carry over either. Given the limits of the units available and the changed mechanics etc who is most likely to figure out how to master and abuse their race first and who becomes most dominant?
It's all speculation ( and I expect everyone to say Flash anyways) but I'd like to see people's reasonings for why they think a certain player would get the most from their race and perhaps the playstyle they'd use. I want to see what people think not only of a player's potential but the potential they think the races hold in certain hands.
* This question is not meant to start an argument but genuine discussion on a topic that interests me as a fan of both BW & SC2.
Bonus question: Do you think Flash would be one of the rare players who actually build a raven in Sc2 vs zerg.
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On December 08 2011 22:08 ladyumbra wrote:
I have a slightly relevant question to ask because this has been debated a bit in other places as well but not in depth ( so far as I recall, forgive me if it's been discussed before and point me in that direction). If JD, Bisu and Flash switched over and kept their current races who do you think would be successful first and who would be most successful long term? None of the races are exactly like they used to be in BW and not all old playstyles carry over either. Given the limits of the units available and the changed mechanics etc who is most likely to figure out how to master and abuse their race first and who becomes most dominant?
It's all theorycrafting ( and I expect everyone to say Flash anyways) but I'd like to see people's reasonings for why they think a certain player would get the most from their race and perhaps the playstyle they'd use. I want to see what people think not only of a player's potential but the potential they think the races hold in certain hands.
* This question is not meant to start an argument but genuine discussion on a topic that interests me as a fan of both BW & SC2.
Bonus question: Does Flash build a raven in TvZ?
this discussion wouldnt bring anything new, none of them are playing sc2 but BW, wait a year or few and maybe they will change (not necceserily). Im not a fan of speculations, sc2 in a year after expansion can look completely different, also race roles in sc2 are kinda inverted, terran is not a pure-macro turtle race in sc2, zerg became that for example we can speculate all the time, but at the end it will bring nothing new. For now we have forgg to talk about, at least that is not speculation.
and how would flash build a raven in tvz if hes not playing sc2 oO?
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Flash is usually not building Ravens in SC/BW because he sees no need for them.
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I'm missing something...Flash/Jaedong/Bisu/(insert more names I don't know) are the kings of BW and make a pretty good living at it, right? They are super-dominant I hear. Seems to me the only reason these guys or anyone else in their shoes would switch is if A) the BW scene fell apart or B) the SC2 scene offered more in incentives, but remember these guys are in their prime, right? The time it would take to switch, well I have no clue how much time that would take, but do you think it's worth risking all that money/fame? (not rhetorical, idk, I'm asking)
For example, even if it only took a week to make the change to SC2, then the incentive (prize money in SC2) to switch would only have to be more than equal to that in the BW scene (otherwise they'd be losing time and money by making the change).
Anyone want to post the differences in prizes/salaries/compensation between BW and SC2? I don't know much about the BW pro scene. If the compensation for BW players (good ones) remains higher than what they could receive through SC2, then there is no reason to switch. Lesser players would continue to switch over though and maybe there is a critical point where the BW scene can no longer support itself? Of course, the SC2 is growing fast and maybe someday very soon it will be a poor man's game to play BW. I mean I do believe SC2 will overtake BW eventually (I am at a loss for comparing the two financially), but am not certain it will happen during the prime of the aforementioned players. Still, others like them will arise and the younger ones would probably be making a smarter long term decision to play SC2 instead of BW.
Just my thoughts.
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Seems to me Brood War fans are being too zealous in their support of Brood War players and SC2 fans are being too zealous in their support of SC2 players. The notion that BW pros will dominate SC2 pros because when they switch to SC2 they will practice harder makes perfect sense to me - provided they do actually practice harder than SC2 pros. At the same time, these BW pros weren't born with the skill they now possess. If new talent can grow to excel in BW, then it can in SC2 as well.
For all their similarities SC2 and BW are still different games, and whilst the mechanics of playing should transfer over from BW to SC2 perfectly, one advantage SC2 players will undeniably have is that SC2 is still evolving whereas BW is not. The current crop of BW pros did not pave the way, they refined, and in SC2 there's still a lot more room for creativity. I have no doubt that the top BW players will be successful in SC2 simply by virtue of them having everything required to succeed, but I would not be surprised if the status quo is upset, and some BW pros struggle to adapt to the rapidly changing meta-game as well as many BW fans expect them to.
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On December 08 2011 21:44 DarkMatter_ wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2011 21:30 shinarit wrote:On December 08 2011 21:26 DarkMatter_ wrote:On December 08 2011 19:55 shinarit wrote:On December 08 2011 17:44 DarkMatter_ wrote:
BW is purely about mechanics whereas SC2 is all about strategy so BW pros won't actually do well in SC2. Wait, do you even PLAY this game? SC2 is still demanding mechanically. Not as much as BW, but you have to click really fast. And we just scratching the surface of micro possibilities yet. Yeah, macro is easier, but macro is boring anyways, so its not a problem. Read my post again (and this time, read the whole thing and not quote half a sentence out of context). I didn't say what you seem to think I'm saying. I read your post. You try to say that BW to SC2 is something like basketball to chess. Which is a very stupid analogy, and very not true. With the same mechanic capabilities people would do more amazing stuff in SC2, so its equally demanding, just in other areas. I repeat: read again. This is what I said: "There are are a ton of SC2 people who didn't seem to get the memo because they constantly insist that saying that a top BW pro would dominate SC2 is the same as saying that Michael Jordan would dominate at chess, and that BW is purely about mechanics whereas SC2 is all about strategy so BW pros won't actually do well in SC2." "They" in this case would be a subgroup of SC2 fans.
Man, you are right, i suck at english, sorry :C
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On December 08 2011 22:14 bgx wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2011 22:08 ladyumbra wrote:
I have a slightly relevant question to ask because this has been debated a bit in other places as well but not in depth ( so far as I recall, forgive me if it's been discussed before and point me in that direction). If JD, Bisu and Flash switched over and kept their current races who do you think would be successful first and who would be most successful long term? None of the races are exactly like they used to be in BW and not all old playstyles carry over either. Given the limits of the units available and the changed mechanics etc who is most likely to figure out how to master and abuse their race first and who becomes most dominant?
It's all theorycrafting ( and I expect everyone to say Flash anyways) but I'd like to see people's reasonings for why they think a certain player would get the most from their race and perhaps the playstyle they'd use. I want to see what people think not only of a player's potential but the potential they think the races hold in certain hands.
* This question is not meant to start an argument but genuine discussion on a topic that interests me as a fan of both BW & SC2.
Bonus question: Does Flash build a raven in TvZ? this discussion wouldnt bring anything new, none of them are playing sc2 but BW, wait a year or few and maybe they will change (not necceserily). Im not a fan of speculations, sc2 in a year after expansion can look completely different, also race roles in sc2 are kinda inverted, terran is not a pure-macro turtle race in sc2, zerg became that for example we can speculate all the time, but at the end it will bring nothing new. For now we have forgg to talk about, at least that is not speculation. and how would flash build a raven in tvz if hes not playing sc2 oO?
Um the whole point is to do speculation even if it has no current meaning, if you don't want to you're not required to, no offense or anything. Sorry the bonus question was meant to apply to TvZ in sc2 as well in reference to how most terrans would rather save up energy for scans than build and protect a raven. I meant to be asking if people thought he would prefer the common scan style or if he'd be more likely to just make a raven and work to protect it.
Edit: I won't deny your point that speculation means little given how much the game can change and the unlikelihood that these players will ever bother to switch over but I don't think it hurts anything either.
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forgg made it pretty far on HIS FIRST TRY. i think this article might have more truth in it than you people think
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On December 08 2011 17:09 hp.Shell wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2011 16:32 sereniity wrote:
Do people don't understand that BW is a RTS game, ofcourse that experience will help you in SC2 since it's also an RTS game. What's this fucking theory about every BW pro becoming some god when he plays BW which will make him unbeatable in SC2?
They have the experience (of being a progamer) from BW.
They have the mechanics from BW.
They have the work ethic from BW.
They have the mindset from BW.
If they put the same amount of energy on SC2 as they did on BW, yes then they will most likely become top players indeed, I don't see what's so hard to see about this?
If you spent 12 hours a game on the previous game in the series for 8 years, then yeah NO FUCKING SHIT SHERLOCK you'll be good at the next game in the series...
so much fucking bias thinking BW players are gods or some shit, jesus... You should really try playing BW before you make a blanket judgment about its mechanics, work ethic, and mindset. Here are the differences in control between the two games that I can think of atm: 1. Auto-mine. You do not have to tell your workers to mine in SC2 when they finish making. This is slightly made up by chronoboost, MULEs, and queens. 2. MBS. In SC2 you do not have to click (or hotkey-tap) each individual building to make units out of all of your production facilities. You simply press one or two hotkeys for gates/robos/starports/factories/hatches etc and you're done. 3. Infinite unit group. This allows for 1a victories instead of 1a2a3a4a5a victories. 4. SC2 has better hotkeys. None of this b->p to build a pylon, 4z5z6d to make zealots and dragoons, and then L to upgrade zealot legspeed. 5. Uphill advantage is gone. 6. When you build anything, the minerals are used when the command is issued, not when the building is actually placed. This is a lot bigger of a deal than you might think. Imagine you have 500 minerals and you want to expand. In BW, you tell a worker to go make an expo, and then you probably spend the other 100-200 minerals right away on units or another building. Don't go over though. If you do, and you're under 400 (or 300 for zerg) minerals when your worker gets there to make the expo, that building isn't going up. For weaker players this means losing games because a building that should have finished 5 minutes ago isn't there. In SC2 you simply issue the command and you're done worrying. This is also why players in BW "confirm" building placement as part of their macro cycle. (e.g. "did the pylon go down? yes. good.") 7. Minimal AI glitching in SC2. All of these factors, when subtracted from the game as they are in SC2, allow super-pros from BW, such as ForGG, to play with godly multitask, macro and micro all at the same time. There are simply fewer things to do, so by increasing the number of things they do in the game (multi-attack, drops, super-micro every unit) they do become gods. I don't mean to be rude, but you're simply wrong when you believe otherwise.
What the fuck is this LOL?
This has to be the most nonsensical thing ever... I know how BW works, what the fuck in my post says otherwise? Maybe you should work on your reading comprehension, you post has nothing to do with what I wrote.
1-5. What does this have ANYTHING to do with my post? No comment.
6. uuuh, okay? Well I'm sure we'll see people sending a worker to an expo, spending money while the worker is running there and then timing it perfectly to have just the right amount of minerals when it's in range of putting down the expo. I don't see what your point is really lol? That you can't blindly spend your money when you put down an expo far away on the map? Well if you want to maximize your unit production you can't do that in SC2 neither, just that nobody does what I wrote above (yet).
7. oh no the game doesn't glitch!
As someone said above, the only thing you did here was to make yourself look ridicolous and strengthen my point. I was saying that BW players already have all it takes to become a good SC2 player, except the knowledge of the specific units in the game.
The things you wrote have NOTHING with work ethic, mindset, experience to do. Just about a part of mechanics which I said that they do have, so don't know what you're ranting about?
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On December 08 2011 14:19 YMCApylons wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2011 13:50 Doodsmack wrote:
Good to see BW elitists already have their excuses ready for when their top players come to SC2 and don't have the dominant performance they predicted. Current Code S top ten: MVP, NesTea, MC, MMA, Polt, MKP, July, TOP, NaDa, Jjakji. All but Jjakji are former pro-BW. Sounds pretty dominant to me.
All those players have been playing SC2 for the greater part of SC2's lifespan thus far. Therefore your examples are irrelevant to my point, which concerns only the speed at which BW pros will reach the top tier of SC2.
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As Day9 says:
"Just be happy with your own wives!"
I don't care about how the SC2 pro scene would look like IF the BW pros changed games. I am more than happy with what I have. I have a GREAT time watching pro matches, and enjoy the community alot. If some of the best BW pros decide to change games, great! We'll cross that bridge when we get to it, and see what that brings to the pro scene. Hopefully tougher competition.
But demeaning the SC2 pro scene because, somebody is better at a similar game is just... well stupid. Fact of the matter is that the BW pros don't play SC2 right now, so let off those that do. If you want to watch the gosu bw pros then do. But stop belittling (spelling?) the achievements of others. Be happy for them instead.
Look at your own wife, instead of thinking that other wives would be better.
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Maybe these recent posts just don't read articles in the BW section, but its been stated over and over again with all these recent retirements that the bw pros see sc2 as the eventual next step. Jaedong, flash, midas, and literally thousands of other progamers all have new setups in their gamimg houses. These upgrades were made specifically for the purpose of the playing and trying some sc2. Every A-line pro or S-rank pro has stated that they can't believe how much easier sc2 is. This isn't a statement from me, its theirs. The coaches stated they were astonished that their entire B-lines were high masters and gm level across the board on their first ever games. Some did not even know what units did what yet and they were just and I quote "naturally masters or higher". These aren't even my words. They are the words of KT Rolster head coaches and from the blogs and updates of all BW pros. There is nothing wrong with having a much easier and simpler game, but don't deny pure fact.
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On December 09 2011 00:55 sCCrooked wrote:
Maybe these recent posts just don't read articles in the BW section, but its been stated over and over again with all these recent retirements that the bw pros see sc2 as the eventual next step. Jaedong, flash, midas, and literally thousands of other progamers all have new setups in their gamimg houses. These upgrades were made specifically for the purpose of the playing and trying some sc2. Every A-line pro or S-rank pro has stated that they can't believe how much easier sc2 is. This isn't a statement from me, its theirs. The coaches stated they were astonished that their entire B-lines were high masters and gm level across the board on their first ever games. Some did not even know what units did what yet and they were just and I quote "naturally masters or higher". These aren't even my words. They are the words of KT Rolster head coaches and from the blogs and updates of all BW pros. There is nothing wrong with having a much easier and simpler game, but don't deny pure fact.
You are exaggerating what the BW pros and coaches have said. At least one top level pro complained that SC2 is hard in the sense that he has little idea of all the timings. You saying that "every A-line pro or S-rank pro" has said SC2 is easy is just you talking out of your ass after having seen a couple of them say it. Same with you saying that teams' "entire" B-lines were masters and GM. If I'm not mistaken none placed directly into GM with their "first ever games." One coach saying his players were naturally master league (he didn't say "higher") doesn't necessarily mean all of his players and certainly doesn't speak for all other teams. If I'm not mistaken HyuN placed into diamond initially.
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On December 08 2011 16:24 Inori wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2011 16:16 DarkMatter_ wrote:On December 08 2011 14:19 YMCApylons wrote:On December 08 2011 13:50 Doodsmack wrote:
Good to see BW elitists already have their excuses ready for when their top players come to SC2 and don't have the dominant performance they predicted. Current Code S top ten: MVP, NesTea, MC, MMA, Polt, MKP, July, TOP, NaDa, Jjakji. All but Jjakji are former pro-BW. Sounds pretty dominant to me. And SC2 might be more luck-based, although it is too early to tell, as the meta-game is still changing very fast. A game that has less luck should see the best player winning more often, and BW has had stretches of truly dominant gameplay by certain players. SC2 doesn't have the history yet to make that judgement. All we see is BW pros proving over and over again something that many SC2 fans just refuse to acknowledge by using arguments that have no basis in reality. Proving what, exactly? That you will be good in a successor to the game you've played professionally for 8 hours a day for the last 5-10 years? Whoa, you guys might be on to something!
Yes, that's EXACTLY it.
YET, a fair number of SC2 kids STILL try to argue otherwise.
It's not you; it's the considerable amount of other SC2 kids that are screaming the games are too different, and that it's not certain top tier BW pros would become top tier SC2 pros.
/e
On December 09 2011 01:41 Doodsmack wrote:Show nested quote +On December 09 2011 00:55 sCCrooked wrote:
Maybe these recent posts just don't read articles in the BW section, but its been stated over and over again with all these recent retirements that the bw pros see sc2 as the eventual next step. Jaedong, flash, midas, and literally thousands of other progamers all have new setups in their gamimg houses. These upgrades were made specifically for the purpose of the playing and trying some sc2. Every A-line pro or S-rank pro has stated that they can't believe how much easier sc2 is. This isn't a statement from me, its theirs. The coaches stated they were astonished that their entire B-lines were high masters and gm level across the board on their first ever games. Some did not even know what units did what yet and they were just and I quote "naturally masters or higher". These aren't even my words. They are the words of KT Rolster head coaches and from the blogs and updates of all BW pros. There is nothing wrong with having a much easier and simpler game, but don't deny pure fact. You are exaggerating what the BW pros and coaches have said. At least one top level pro complained that SC2 is hard in the sense that he has little idea of all the timings. You saying that "every A-line pro or S-rank pro" has said SC2 is easy is just you talking out of your ass after having seen a couple of them say it. Same with you saying that teams' "entire" B-lines were masters and GM. If I'm not mistaken none placed directly into GM with their "first ever games." One coach saying his players were naturally master league (he didn't say "higher") doesn't necessarily mean all of his players and certainly doesn't speak for all other teams. If I'm not mistaken HyuN placed into diamond initially.
Yes, he is exaggerating a bit, but I read up on the topic quite a bit as well, so I'll try to be as impartial as possible. Of course no one is going to be GM or high masters on their very first game, there are simply too many timings and build order variations that you just cannot hope to hit on your first games, but the KT Rolster coach did say that so I guess it was him that was exaggerating a bit, or the translation was totally off. However, he is NOT making an hyperbole when he says many of the players were "naturally masters or higher". Now, Korean master league players are no slouch, so this is quite impressive. It was the same for me really; C+ in BW back in the days, and when I switched I got placed in diamond, either losing games in total humiliation or winning in total domination, because my mechanics were 2x better than everyone else's. Thus as long as a tiny ounce of luck was on my side and I didn't make the worst unit composition possible, I was dominating. I imagine it's the same situation for BW pros that tried out SC2; if top BW pros can micro/macro close to perfection with all the infinitely harder mechanics from BW, with SC2 being an easier game, then they could micro/harass almost CONSTANTLY (thanks forgg), which is a nightmare for anyone who doesn't have top GM multitasking. I have full confidence that on his first game, Flash was able to split marines faster than MKP and on his first PvT, Bisu was able to have high kill count stalkers from the perfect kiting of marines.
Which brings me to another point: more than just mechanics carry over from BW to SC2. In fact, a LOT of the non-mechanical skills honed in BW is supremely beneficial to SC2 as well, including: MICRO, worker/building counting during scouting, unit positioning/army movement, map awareness, constant minimap glances, etc. I wouldn't call the ability to count the # of drones super fast as a mechanical skills, nor the drilled-in habit of glancing at the minimap at constant intervals.
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I don't think many SC2 fans are trying to deny that being very good at an RTS would help you succeed at another RTS; especially when the next RTS is the sequel of the game that you are very good at.
I think they are arguing the perception that someone like Flash could come in and dominate from day 1, without any trouble at all. The idea of the dude taking GSL within a week and then continuing to take it for seven more years.
Obviously, BW pros will be very good at any RTS game, especially SC2. Obviously some of them will eventually dominate. Obviously they will not all dominate, nor will they remain dominant forever.
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On December 09 2011 03:54 HardMacro wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2011 16:24 Inori wrote:On December 08 2011 16:16 DarkMatter_ wrote:On December 08 2011 14:19 YMCApylons wrote:On December 08 2011 13:50 Doodsmack wrote:
Good to see BW elitists already have their excuses ready for when their top players come to SC2 and don't have the dominant performance they predicted. Current Code S top ten: MVP, NesTea, MC, MMA, Polt, MKP, July, TOP, NaDa, Jjakji. All but Jjakji are former pro-BW. Sounds pretty dominant to me. And SC2 might be more luck-based, although it is too early to tell, as the meta-game is still changing very fast. A game that has less luck should see the best player winning more often, and BW has had stretches of truly dominant gameplay by certain players. SC2 doesn't have the history yet to make that judgement. All we see is BW pros proving over and over again something that many SC2 fans just refuse to acknowledge by using arguments that have no basis in reality. Proving what, exactly? That you will be good in a successor to the game you've played professionally for 8 hours a day for the last 5-10 years? Whoa, you guys might be on to something! Yes, that's EXACTLY it. YET, a fair number of SC2 kids STILL try to argue otherwise.It's not you; it's the considerable amount of other SC2 kids that are screaming the games are too different, and that it's not certain top tier BW pros would become top tier SC2 pros.
Calling people kids, good argument practice.
They do not say "BW players won't be good", like you are rudely insinuating. They are saying, that it's not guaranteed that within 10 minutes of picking up SC2, they will easily have a 99% win rate against the best Code S players.
This seems to be what BW players "actually think" 
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EPT
