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On July 16 2012 00:46 Azarkon wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2012 00:34 KainiT wrote:
mvp loses in hsc, reaction in fanclub is like: terran weak atm, jetlag, wrist problems etc.
after mkp's recent defeats pretty much the same, not to mention mc's fanclub atm
when stephano is winning french wcs without dropping a single map people(azarkon) want to discuss his decline in skill, when he beats hero and mc people(still azarkon) want to discuss how bad he played in certain situations
->thank god stephano doesn't need encouragement from his fans cause he happens to get none Stephano doesn't need a confidence boost. He has that. What he needed was to sit down, practice, and get new builds and to improve his ZvZ. MVP and MKP have their fanboys, but they're not in the same situation. They don't need to sit down and practice. We know that they practice a huge amount of time and develop / are fed strategies by their teams. Stephano is quite different. He loses when he underestimates his opponents and when he doesn't prepare and practice. Being drunk and losing, being late and getting a forfeit, and not practicing because he doesn't want to are his weaknesses, and that's what his fanclub needs to help him get away from. He's not in TSL 4 because of it and has forfeited tons of tournaments because nobody helped him show up.
Thanks for your thoughts about what the fanclub should be doing. Also since Stephano has not indicated he even reads this, we're doing this more or less for ourselves, so if we want to celebrate his achievements we do so here, rather than relentlessly carp about perceived faults in his play.
Stephano believes that almost everyone he plays is not good (e.g., in the pre-game interview in his match against Illusion, he said he was confident he would beat him because Illusion "wasn't good" and he's expressed similar levels of confidence about his chances against Thorzain, Grubby, Kas, Bling, Puma, Bly, etc. either in chat and in interviews) and his record against the players he thinks he should win against aren't good; they are spectacular. If anyone is not affected by overconfidence it's Stephano. Since you base all of your analysis on his losses against Mana at Dreamhack and Sase at MLG you will disagree, but the fact you base all of your analysis on those games is a good reason to disregard everything you say.
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On July 16 2012 04:52 Otolia wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2012 04:47 The_Darkness wrote:On July 16 2012 02:00 Azarkon wrote:On July 16 2012 01:49 Energy94 wrote:On July 16 2012 00:46 Azarkon wrote:On July 16 2012 00:34 KainiT wrote:
mvp loses in hsc, reaction in fanclub is like: terran weak atm, jetlag, wrist problems etc.
after mkp's recent defeats pretty much the same, not to mention mc's fanclub atm
when stephano is winning french wcs without dropping a single map people(azarkon) want to discuss his decline in skill, when he beats hero and mc people(still azarkon) want to discuss how bad he played in certain situations
->thank god stephano doesn't need encouragement from his fans cause he happens to get none Stephano doesn't need a confidence boost. He has that. What he needed was to sit down, practice, and get new builds and to improve his ZvZ. MVP and MKP have their fanboys, but they're not in the same situation. They don't need to sit down and practice. We know that they practice a huge amount of time and develop / are fed strategies by their teams. Stephano is quite different. He loses when he underestimates his opponents and when he doesn't prepare and practice. Being drunk and losing, being late and getting a forfeit, and not practicing because he doesn't want to are his weaknesses, and that's what his fanclub needs to help him get away from. He's not in TSL 4 because of it and has forfeited tons of tournaments because nobody helped him show up. MVP doesn't practice a lot, MKP does, not MVP. MVP was a BW pro. He practiced A LOT, but his wrists were injured because of it and today he doesn't practice the same amount, and it has affected his results - ie he got stomped by Ret in HSC. When it comes to practice, uninjured top tier pro-gamers in Korea are in no shortage of it. The best NA / EU players also practice a hell of a lot. SaSe is a practice beast, and Naniwa is too. Ret and Nerchio both practice a lot, and the same goes for Kas, Thorzain, and Lucifron. Where do you get your information from? I'm guessing you just make it up as you go as needed to support whatever point you're trying to make, hoping no one will call you out on it. Nerchio and Ret are reknowned for not practicing a lot, as has been stated by nearly every caster familiar with them (DJ wheat, Mr. Bitters, etc.). Ret himself said that, even when he was in Korea in the OGS house, he was practicing no more than 6 hours a day, which does not qualify as a lot. I have heard from Khaldor that Sase practices a tremendous amount so I agree there. Naniwa claims to practice around 8 hours a day, which doesn't seem like an incredible amount. Also you have such a weird take on everything. Yes, Ret beat MVP (and Idra did too in Iron Squid) but MVP went on to win the GSL after he injured his wrists -- so did his lack of practicing really hurt him as much as you're implying it did? Your posts are so full of misinformation, poor analysis and an overall lack of insight or anything worthwhile about seemingly everything you care to comment on that you would do well not to post here anymore, as has been requested by most of the actively posting members of this fanclub. Take the hint. Working 8 hours a day isn't good enough for you ? You have high standars, overachiever.
Hah, I'm an attorney. I often work 14+hours a day for long stretches of time. 8 hours does not seem like a lot to me. To each his own
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On July 16 2012 02:00 Azarkon wrote:
Ret and Nerchio both practice a lot, and the same goes for Kas, Thorzain, and Lucifron.
Ret and Nerchio's situation has been mentioned and it is pretty well known, while Thorzain said several times he plays 4-5 hours a day on average, although it varies a lot. To not seem like I make this up, I can name several occasions that I remember(yes, I'm a big fan):
1. Red Bull Training LAN: He said he would be going to university this fall(before deciding for 1 more year off) and only play part time. He mentioned he probably wouldn't have won any more tournaments but since he isn't a player who needs to play a lot to be good he would still be a strong player.
2. Dreamhack Summer: GD interviewed him and he said he doesn't play much, when he heard Apollo was playing 8 hours per day he was surprised and said: "He plays more than me".
3. EG house: Before flying to Korea, he went to the EG lair and according to him and Idra he played more Guitar Hero than he practiced SC2, which sounds like an overstatement but I doubt he'd have time for that if he practiced hard as you say.
I also heard him mention his practice habits in interviews that I can't remember but they all go the same way. Sure, he is in Korea now and may play more but he obtained most of his achievements while practicing like I mentioned. I don't know where you get your info from but it seems like you make it up. You basically name the foreigners that can beat top koreans right now (arguable for Lucifron) and assume they all practice a lot.
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On July 16 2012 05:25 ne0lith wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2012 02:00 Azarkon wrote:
Ret and Nerchio both practice a lot, and the same goes for Kas, Thorzain, and Lucifron. Ret and Nerchio's situation has been mentioned and it is pretty well known, while Thorzain said several times he plays 4-5 hours a day on average, although it varies a lot. To not seem like I make this up, I can name several occasions that I remember(yes, I'm a big fan): 1. Red Bull Training LAN: He said he would be going to university this fall(before deciding for 1 more year off) and only play part time. He mentioned he probably wouldn't have won any more tournaments but since he isn't a player who needs to play a lot to be good he would still be a strong player. 2. Dreamhack Summer: GD interviewed him and he said he doesn't play much, when he heard Apollo was playing 8 hours per day he was surprised and said: "He plays more than me". 3. EG house: Before flying to Korea, he went to the EG lair and according to him and Idra he played more Guitar Hero than he practiced SC2, which sounds like an overstatement but I doubt he'd have time for that if he practiced hard as you say. I also heard him mention his practice habits in interviews that I can't remember but they all go the same way. Sure, he is in Korea now and may play more but he obtained most of his achievements while practicing like I mentioned. I don't know where you get your info from but it seems like you make it up. You basically name the foreigners that can beat koreans right now and assume they all practice a lot.
Ret has been practicing _alot_ since around the time of DH. He's stated this in interviews, and the casters have also mentioned it. I follow Ret a bit, and I know that he's stated in interviews around the time of Stockholm that he regrets not practicing a lot before and that it's time to get serious about the game. He's been doing it from what the people who know him are saying.
Nerchio practices less, but he was #1 EU GM for a the better length of the last six months. You don't get that by not playing, both ladder and custom games. I believe Nerchio's practice schedule has become a lot better with summer because he's a student and student pro-gamers turn up the practice during summer.
Thorzain is in Korea, and you don't stay in Korea and not practice. I don't know why you think Thorzain has been very successful, however, in the tournaments that you cited. His biggest successes are TSL 3, Dreamhack Valencia, and Dreamhack Stockholm. He was practicing a lot for all three. TSL 3 was his breakout tournament and I see no cause to believe that he was not practicing his ass off for it. He stated in his interview for Stockholm that his practice at the time was great because of all the events going on. For Valencia, he was straight out of a month of practice in Korea. This was before he joined EG and obviously before he started playing Guitar Hero.
For an EU / NA player, practicing 8-10 hours a day is extremely hard work.
That's about the amount that a lot of Korean pros practice, from what Artosis said.
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On July 16 2012 04:47 The_Darkness wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2012 02:00 Azarkon wrote:On July 16 2012 01:49 Energy94 wrote:On July 16 2012 00:46 Azarkon wrote:On July 16 2012 00:34 KainiT wrote:
mvp loses in hsc, reaction in fanclub is like: terran weak atm, jetlag, wrist problems etc.
after mkp's recent defeats pretty much the same, not to mention mc's fanclub atm
when stephano is winning french wcs without dropping a single map people(azarkon) want to discuss his decline in skill, when he beats hero and mc people(still azarkon) want to discuss how bad he played in certain situations
->thank god stephano doesn't need encouragement from his fans cause he happens to get none Stephano doesn't need a confidence boost. He has that. What he needed was to sit down, practice, and get new builds and to improve his ZvZ. MVP and MKP have their fanboys, but they're not in the same situation. They don't need to sit down and practice. We know that they practice a huge amount of time and develop / are fed strategies by their teams. Stephano is quite different. He loses when he underestimates his opponents and when he doesn't prepare and practice. Being drunk and losing, being late and getting a forfeit, and not practicing because he doesn't want to are his weaknesses, and that's what his fanclub needs to help him get away from. He's not in TSL 4 because of it and has forfeited tons of tournaments because nobody helped him show up. MVP doesn't practice a lot, MKP does, not MVP. MVP was a BW pro. He practiced A LOT, but his wrists were injured because of it and today he doesn't practice the same amount, and it has affected his results - ie he got stomped by Ret in HSC. When it comes to practice, uninjured top tier pro-gamers in Korea are in no shortage of it. The best NA / EU players also practice a hell of a lot. SaSe is a practice beast, and Naniwa is too. Ret and Nerchio both practice a lot, and the same goes for Kas, Thorzain, and Lucifron. Where do you get your information from? I'm guessing you just make it up as you go as needed to support whatever point you're trying to make, hoping no one will call you out on it. Nerchio and Ret are reknowned for not practicing a lot, as has been stated by nearly every caster familiar with them (DJ wheat, Mr. Bitters, etc.). Ret himself said that, even when he was in Korea in the OGS house, he was practicing no more than 6 hours a day, which does not qualify as a lot. I have heard from Khaldor that Sase practices a tremendous amount so I agree there. Naniwa claims to practice around 8 hours a day, which doesn't seem like an incredible amount. Also you have such a weird take on everything. Yes, Ret beat MVP (and Idra did too in Iron Squid) but MVP went on to win the GSL after he injured his wrists -- so did his lack of practicing really hurt him as much as you're implying it did? Your posts are so full of misinformation, poor analysis and an overall lack of insight or anything worthwhile about seemingly everything you care to comment on that you would do well not to post here anymore, as has been requested by most of the actively posting members of this fanclub. Take the hint.
MVP's wrists did affect how he played his games, which is why he resorted to fast wins and cheeses in the GSL for the bulk of his games, taking advantage of the greedy meta-game Protoss were doing at the time. Had you watched the GSL you'd have known this. You obviously did not.
As for the rest of your post, how about you take the hint and stop responding to me?
I'm not going away, and there is absolutely nothing you can do I also owe nothing to the 'most active members of this fanclub,' considering a lot of those who are 'requesting me to leave this thread' are flat out fanboys who have not contributed a single thing to TL beyond one liners in this thread. I understand quite well coming in that a chunk of Stephano's fanbase is as rabid / bad as IdrA's fanbase used to be. I'm obviously not going to be intimidated by that sort of people, into which group I'm starting to place you. You joined in December 2011, and out of the ~300 posts you've made on this forum from that time, just about every one of them has to do with rabidly hyping Stephano. You're not a fan of the game and its players, you're a fanboy of Stephano.
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lets argue about other players on the Stephano fanclub thread!
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On July 16 2012 06:09 FeUerFlieGe wrote:
lets argue about other players on the Stephano fanclub thread!
that's what "I don't like his attitude but his playstyle impresses me sometimes, but he needs to do that and that and ..." -fans like to do, just after saying that he gets worse all the time, people will probably even do it after he has won nasl3, not to mention what would happen if he only gets 2nd, that would probably cause people to say that he should finally stop playing cause he can not compete anymore
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On July 16 2012 05:30 Azarkon wrote:
Nerchio practices less, but he was #1 EU GM for a the better length of the last six months. You don't get that by not playing, both ladder and custom games. I believe Nerchio's practice schedule has become a lot better with summer because he's a student and student pro-gamers turn up the practice during summer.
Thorzain is in Korea, and you don't stay in Korea and not practice. I don't know why you think Thorzain has been very successful, however, in the tournaments that you cited. His biggest successes are TSL 3, Dreamhack Valencia, and Dreamhack Stockholm. He was practicing a lot for all three. TSL 3 was his breakout tournament and I see no cause to believe that he was not practicing his ass off for it. He stated in his interview for Stockholm that his practice at the time was great because of all the events going on. For Valencia, he was straight out of a month of practice in Korea. This was before he joined EG and obviously before he started playing Guitar Hero.
For an EU / NA player, practicing 8-10 hours a day is extremely hard work.
That's about the amount that a lot of Korean pros practice, from what Artosis said.
Almost all decent players practice a lot, to choose Ret, who stepped it up, Nerchio, who was studying and is on summer holiday and Thorzain as standout practice machines over guys like Happy and equal with Kas would be arguable at best. You just choose specific and convenient time periods(before they win tournaments or place highly) and just say they have to play more than others right? Ironic to make those assumptions on Stephano's fan club. Also, Stephano said he played 8 hours a day in Korea for lack of other activities, let's pick that period as representative for his practice regiment, right?
Regarding Thorzain and TSL 3, he said he practiced "more than he ever practiced before" but when he went back to normal schedule he said multiple times that he doesn't practice a hell of a lot. Before Dreamhack, he didn't say his practice was "great" as you stretch it to your liking, he said he hasn't trained more than usual because there's always something to train for. And his usual is not a lot. Which means he wasn't practicing "his ass off" for DH, it just means he had consistent practice(like Stephano used to) for the upcoming tournaments. He had periods of more training than his normal but so did Stephano. Would you attribute Stephano's entire success to his stay in Korea? They both built their careers through smart play, not by practicing like crazy. It is a little pointless to compare these two but you get the picture.
When he got to Korea, Thorzain beat Gumiho despite the lack of hard practice in the EG house, which goes back to prove his saying that he doesn't need to grind a lot of games to be good. But you know better. You know better than the players how much they play, when and why they don't admit it. Everyone is crazy and a fanboy, only you see the truth.
But yeah, I guess I'll have to realise this is not going anywhere with you.
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On July 16 2012 07:27 ne0lith wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2012 05:30 Azarkon wrote:
Nerchio practices less, but he was #1 EU GM for a the better length of the last six months. You don't get that by not playing, both ladder and custom games. I believe Nerchio's practice schedule has become a lot better with summer because he's a student and student pro-gamers turn up the practice during summer.
Thorzain is in Korea, and you don't stay in Korea and not practice. I don't know why you think Thorzain has been very successful, however, in the tournaments that you cited. His biggest successes are TSL 3, Dreamhack Valencia, and Dreamhack Stockholm. He was practicing a lot for all three. TSL 3 was his breakout tournament and I see no cause to believe that he was not practicing his ass off for it. He stated in his interview for Stockholm that his practice at the time was great because of all the events going on. For Valencia, he was straight out of a month of practice in Korea. This was before he joined EG and obviously before he started playing Guitar Hero.
For an EU / NA player, practicing 8-10 hours a day is extremely hard work.
That's about the amount that a lot of Korean pros practice, from what Artosis said. Almost all decent players practice a lot, to choose Ret, who stepped it up, Nerchio, who was studying and is on summer holiday and Thorzain as standout practice machines over guys like Happy and equal with Kas would be arguable at best. You just choose specific and convenient time periods(before they win tournaments or place highly) and just say they have to play more than others right? Ironic to make those assumptions on Stephano's fan club. Also, Stephano said he played 8 hours a day in Korea for lack of other activities, let's pick that period as representative for his practice regiment, right? Regarding Thorzain and TSL 3, he said he practiced "more than he ever practiced before" but when he went back to normal schedule he said multiple times that he doesn't practice a hell of a lot. Before Dreamhack, he didn't say his practice was "great" as you stretch it to your liking, he said he hasn't trained more than usual because there's always something to train for. And his usual is not a lot. Which means he wasn't practicing "his ass off" for DH, it just means he had consistent practice(like Stephano used to) for the upcoming tournaments. He had periods of more training than his normal but so did Stephano. Would you attribute Stephano's entire success to his stay in Korea? They both built their careers through smart play, not by practicing like crazy. It is a little pointless to compare these two but you get the picture. When he got to Korea, Thorzain beat Gumiho despite the lack of hard practice in the EG house, which goes back to prove his saying that he doesn't need to grind a lot of games to be good. But you know better. You know better than the players how much they play, when and why they don't admit it. Everyone is crazy and a fanboy, only you see the truth. But yeah, I guess I'll have to realise this is not going anywhere with you.
Thanks for agreeing with me. What is the gist of your post again? That Thorzain didn't practice a lot before his major tournament wins? I know that he practiced a lot for TSL 3 and Valencia. Your only argument is Stockholm and it's not a great one, because we don't know what 'normal practice' for Thorzain is when he has a lot of tournaments going on. I reckon it wasn't what he did in the EG house and when he had nothing going on.
Great players have to put in the time. I don't believe that Stephano fails to practice and prepare before tournaments that he wins. I'm willing to say that he doesn't practice enough, but people who are in the know about Stephano has said that he practices way beyond what people think he does. It's not that I know better than the players, it's that I know what the vast majority of high tier players - ie the Koreans - do to have the results that they obtain.
The bulk of EU and NA does not practice enough, which is why the list of high tier players in the EU and NA isn't that large.
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Russian Federation1849 Posts
On July 16 2012 07:44 Azarkon wrote:
people who are in the know about Stephano has said that he practices way beyond what people think he does.
where did you get that info? any possible links or quotes?
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On July 16 2012 07:44 Azarkon wrote:
Thanks for agreeing with me. What is the gist of your post again? That Thorzain didn't practice a lot before his major tournament wins? I know that he practiced a lot for TSL 3 and Valencia. Your only argument is Stockholm and it's not a great one, because we don't know what 'normal practice' for Thorzain is when he has a lot of tournaments going on. I reckon it wasn't what he did in the EG house and when he had nothing going on.
Haha, so typical of you! You completely avoid addressing the points that you have no arguments for and choose to take things out of context, like small children would do. Since you have reading comprehension problems, I'll make it more simple now. Yes, Thorzain is not the most practice heavy player.
Regarding the part I bolded in your post. When he was at the EG house he had MLG, GSL and DH within 10 days and he did not train hardcore which stands true to what he always said..
He had periods of more practice. For TSL he said he trained harder than ever before and he went to Korea. Does this make him a hard worker among the other players? Does Stephano's 8 hours per day period in Korea make him a hard worker? Can you answer these simple questions or are you going to avoid them? I think you realise you're terribly misinformed but instead of backing off or admiting you're wrong, you just stubbornly persist in fear that you may look even more ridiculous.
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On July 16 2012 08:39 ne0lith wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2012 07:44 Azarkon wrote:
Thanks for agreeing with me. What is the gist of your post again? That Thorzain didn't practice a lot before his major tournament wins? I know that he practiced a lot for TSL 3 and Valencia. Your only argument is Stockholm and it's not a great one, because we don't know what 'normal practice' for Thorzain is when he has a lot of tournaments going on. I reckon it wasn't what he did in the EG house and when he had nothing going on.
Haha, so typical of you! You completely avoid addressing the points that you have no arguments for and choose to take things out of context, like small children would do. Since you have reading comprehension problems, I'll make it more simple now. Yes, Thorzain is not the most practice heavy player. Regarding the part I bolded in your post. When he was at the EG house he had MLG, GSL and DH within 10 days and he did not train hardcore which stands true to what he always said.. He had periods of more practice. For TSL he said he trained harder than ever before and he went to Korea. Does this make him a hard worker among the other players? Does Stephano's 8 hours per day period in Korea make him a hard worker? Can you answer these simple questions or are you going to avoid them? I think you realise you're terribly misinformed but instead of backing off or admiting you're wrong, you just stubbornly persist in fear that you may look even more ridiculous.
Why don't you start addressing my answers instead of picking one specific response and being pedantic about it?
To answer your questions - is Thorzain a hard worker among other players? Yes, he is. The inside joke that you don't get from Cloud is that EU pros practice very little. Thorzain practicing 5-6 hours a day makes him better than the vast majority of them. Also, speaking of reading comprehension - I did not say that Thorzain was 'the most practice heavy player'. I said that top EU players practice a lot.
Does Stephano's eight hours per day in Korea make him a hard worker? Yes, it does. But he stopped doing that after coming back from Korea. Whether he's still a hard worker is difficult to say, but Stephano didn't just decide one day to own up the EU scene. He put in A LOT of work early on, and people who have been a fan of him long enough understand that. There was a time when Stephano played hundreds of games on ladder each season, and when he first became a full-time pro, the improvements in his skill were tangible.
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@azarkon why being so critical at stephano's performance and play? The way he trains and the way how he views the game? Doesn't he have the right to do what he wants to do? As Mr. Bitter and Rotteradam used to always say during their nasl playoffs casting- "Stephano does what Stephano does". Why focus on his losses and not appreciate his wins? And the fact is you are in his fanclub? Why not pick a player that trains a lot and doesn't lose that much, the fact is all player losses, and all player comes to a peak. He is still young and he doesnt see his life stuck in sc2, that affects his views and approach to the game. Don't you think his win against MC a proof that he is still in the top?You talk about Nerchio, he just eats Nerchio, now u tell him the best in EU? Are you truly a fan.And Stephano says in his interview from NASL. "Don't expect too much from me". He got the right to do whatever he wants to do or trains the way he trains. Accept him as he is, otherwise pick your player who trains a lot that also back up his profiles with high placings and solid results.
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Just ignore him, even if he posts those huge walls of text. He's just that kind of guy.
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On July 16 2012 08:50 NevaN wrote:
@azarkon why being so critical at stephano's performance and play? The way he trains and the way how he views the game? Doesn't he have the right to do what he wants to do? As Mr. Bitter and Rotteradam used to always say during their nasl playoffs casting- "Stephano does what Stephano does". Why focus on his losses and not appreciate his wins? And the fact is you are in his fanclub? Why not pick a player that trains a lot and doesn't lose that much, the fact is all player losses, and all player comes to a peak. He is still young and he doesnt see his life stuck in sc2, that affects his views and approach to the game. Don't you think his win against MC a proof that he is still in the top?You talk about Nerchio, he just eats Nerchio, now u tell him the best in EU? Are you truly a fan.And Stephano says in his interview from NASL. "Don't expect too much from me". He got the right to do whatever he wants to do or trains the way he trains. Accept him as he is, otherwise pick your player who trains a lot that also back up his profiles with high placings and solid results.
Because when you are a fan of a player, you want him to improve and to reach his potential. I do not believe that Stephano has reached his potential, which is why I give my opinion on what he needs to improve. But that's for my own benefit - I don't pretend to think that Stephano needs me to tell him what he needs to improve; rather, I do it to improve my own understanding of the game and the players who play it.
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What mouse does monsieur Stephano use?
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did you guys see how the lack of training was shown in stephano's play? he would have won way easier with proper preperation, gotta step it up man! haha
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On July 16 2012 09:27 KainiT wrote:
did you guys see how the lack of training was shown in stephano's play? he would have won way easier with proper preperation, gotta step it up man! haha
Yea... it's unfortunate he wastes so much potential...
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Cute play in the first game. P can be strong, but miss FF and bad engagement, and it's over.
Nice way to didn't care too much and let the opponent commit to much to a canon rush in the second game.
But i really think Alicia played the second one really bad, he almost look like Incontrol, canon rushing and loosing.
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EPT
