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This isn't a thread about Artosis. |
The old version Shakuras Plateau makes defending 3 bases for protoss very easy, because all entrances are very narrow.
The way Mondragon played in game 2 would have killed Cruncher on any other map in the mappool. Watch game 1 again. Terminus Re is a map where you can defend 3 bases with 1 choke pretty easily and it was even the version without the rockblocked entrance to the third. Both played pretty much the exact same as game 2 but Mondragon won that pretty safely.
Now what does that tell you about Shakuras Plateau? There was no way to kill the cannons at the backdoor in any acceptable way. Natural has a very small choke which when walled off with cannons behind is very hard to break, too.
Also there is no air space behind any of that bases.
That is partly why Blizzard changed the map. The other reasons are related to the backdoor expansion, too.
Anyway props to cruncher for taking game 3 and 4. I may not like the way he did win, but he did and it would still have worked on other maps.
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Just saw you get owned by Incontrol
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BL against incontrol today. PvP very volatile.
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On April 21 2011 09:04 Jojo131 wrote:Wow, this is so full of bias I don't even know what to say. I saw the games, let me tell you what you saw, and what actually happened. Show nested quote +Much of it will look something like "kill destructable rocks - lose 5 roaches", "kill forge - lose 7 roaches" What actually happened was that Mondragon distracted Cruncher by attacking the backdoor rocks so that his army would be displaced. Then Mondragon attacks with a more sizable roach army to break the front wall while the main air army of Cruncher is all the way on the other side of the map killing 5 roaches. Mondragon snipes a forge before the upgrade is complete. Don't take my word for it, the commentators acknowledge it too. It was smart, and clearly more then Cruncher could handle to stop. (hint: outplayed)
That doesn't contradict anything I said. Yes, preventing the upgrade was also nice. It simply wasn't worth all the units he lost to pull it off in my opinion. Don't forget all the units he lost after this as well. Engaging in disadvantageous trades isn't "outplaying". Appealing to the commentators is a poor argument -- commentators don't always get things right.
The reason why people are on the "he got outplayed" boat is because Cruncher didn't do anything out of the ordinary (herp derp deathball) while Mondragon was all over the place. The "outplayed" part came by virtue of comparing two people, one who clearly showed that he worked harder then the other player. Outplaying someone doesn't necessarily mean beating someone (as we can see from this example), it just means demonstrating more talent and skill.
Being "all over the place" and playing "out of the ordinary" doesn't mean you're playing better. It sounds like you just assume having a flashier style makes you the better player. I have a hard time taking your arguments seriously at this point, but you're certainly entitled to your opinion.
In the end, even Mondragon realized after the matches that he lost because he didn't tech infestors. That doesn't change the fact that he didn't outplay Cruncher, he just wasn't aware of how good infestors really are.
Part of playing well is making good tech decisions and knowing what units are effective in what situations.... This is almost as nonsensical as saying "Player X outplayed Player Y, he just lost because he had terrible micro".
Some people argue that Cruncher "defended well" but I don't even agree that Cruncher defended well at all. Defending is supposed to be easier then attacking in the first place due to defender's advantage. It's so stupid when people argue "His drops were shit, he didn't kill enough" because you could easily say "Cruncher's defense was so shit, he shouldn't have lost anything". With defender's advantage, why couldn't we expect Cruncher to not lose a Nexus from all that harass if he defense was "so good?". Again, flawed argument.
The attacks hurt the attacker more than the defender, that's all that matters. The bolded portion above is almost too silly to respond to.
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Man I love this guy. Say what you will about him but I think he's a really fun Protoss to watch. I can't wait to see him try to upset Naniwa tomorrow. Count me in.
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I love this guy for setting Idra straight, I'm a fan.
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Good showing by Cruncher was by now means destroyed by Nani.
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Damn, bad luck cruncher. I so wanted you to win that. 3-2 so so close.
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naniwa
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What's with the trolls?
So close Cruncher! If you didn't go robo you had that 
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Even if cruncher won the whiners would still whine.
Naniwa wins - "skill"
if cruncher wins - "PvP is broke"
Someone who can take 2 games off Naniwa in a BO 5 isn't "bad"
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On April 25 2011 04:32 Mitchlew wrote:
Even if cruncher won the whiners would still whine.
Naniwa wins - "skill"
if cruncher wins - "PvP is broke"
Someone who can take 2 games off Naniwa in a BO 5 isn't "bad"
Not aggreeing with anyone that cruncher is bad, but his 2 game wins did come of BO wins (i.e He blind countered Naniwa which can make a bad playe beat a good player in pvp) and his Micro is deff. not "stellar" by any means, but both him and naniwa did provide some pretty good games today. We'll see how cruncher does in NASL now.
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Good job imo, Naniwa is one of the best players right now and you did quite well against him. At least you made it as far as MC did ^^
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I'm not a fan, but there is definitely to much hate for him going on. He plays pretty solid, good mechanics (not the best, but something he can work on), good decisionmaking, far superior intelligence to Idra and definitely a player to watch in the future.
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love how cruncher lost cause he is bad
PvP isn't about skill generally its a coinflip naniwa can macro the shit around cruncher everyday he doesnt belong in the competitive scene
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It just annoys me when I hear him being called bad. Maybe its my definition of bad, When I hear bad I think combat ex
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EPT
