EPTMC Fan Club - Page 242
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Heavenly
2172 Posts
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SeaSwift
Scotland4486 Posts
On November 08 2011 04:15 Heavenly wrote: Looks like he went 1-2 v MKP. Puts them at 2-2 lately and got second in his group to get into the ro16 for IPL 4 Qualifier. Wonder how those games went. I never really see MKP win macro games vP but I rarely see him play vP anyway. I would imagine there were a couple of 1 or 2 base pushes and MKP got the better of MC with some MM micro. Don't quote that, though - that was a guess based on their playstyles. I do find it really interesting to watch MKP vs MC, not just because I think MC is better, but also because of the clash of styles: both are really good at 1-2 base aggression, but MC also thrives in macro games and greediness, whereas MKP relies on micro and mass Barracks play. Another guess: MKP "abused" a Ghost timing. He seems to do 2base Ghost timings more and more often in TvP these days. Note: I could be entirely wrong, but especially with how poor the whole event is turning out to be, we who did not watch the stream may never know. | ||
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Heff87
United States106 Posts
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SeaSwift
Scotland4486 Posts
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Checkm8
Japan627 Posts
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SeaSwift
Scotland4486 Posts
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Dragonmaster26
Australia311 Posts
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pPingu
Switzerland2892 Posts
On November 08 2011 19:20 Dragonmaster26 wrote: Rather than better control; what could have MC have done better in his match against Sen? Yeah, I don't really know too. Maybe he could have used dt to harass sen and take the map control? Anyways, MC played really well in game 1 even after being so behind. He might have had a chance to take the game if sen didn't do the supply trick. | ||
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Dragonmaster26
Australia311 Posts
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SeaSwift
Scotland4486 Posts
On November 08 2011 19:32 Dragonmaster26 wrote: Hopefully he was jsut hiding his best builds and still has some sick new strats to win GSL this season. Boss Toss fighting! Honestly? I think MC's (along with every other decent Protoss's) PvZ is burned out. He looks hopeless against decent Zergs, and even HerO (famed for his "amazing" PvZ), barely scraped through the Code A Ro48 vs a no-name Zerg. I think that if MC can get through PvZ at all, it will be through some early game pushes. Back to what first made Zergs rage about early game ZvP, I guess. Just utterly metagaming them with pushes that were nerfed so hard nobody expects them. That's pretty much all I can see for success. | ||
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Ghrimnar
Germany260 Posts
On November 08 2011 20:24 SeaSwift wrote: Honestly? I think MC's (along with every other decent Protoss's) PvZ is burned out. He looks hopeless against decent Zergs, and even HerO (famed for his "amazing" PvZ), barely scraped through the Code A Ro48 vs a no-name Zerg. I think that if MC can get through PvZ at all, it will be through some early game pushes. Back to what first made Zergs rage about early game ZvP, I guess. Just utterly metagaming them with pushes that were nerfed so hard nobody expects them. That's pretty much all I can see for success. That's exactly what i think. Protoss all hope that MC is hiding is new ownage builds. But don't fool yourself, guise. That's not the case. The match-up is just broken at the moment and the patch won't change a bit. A major patch will be needed, to even out the win rates on pro level. | ||
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double620
China804 Posts
On November 08 2011 21:21 Ghrimnar wrote: That's exactly what i think. Protoss all hope that MC is hiding is new ownage builds. But don't fool yourself, guise. That's not the case. The match-up is just broken at the moment and the patch won't change a bit. A major patch will be needed, to even out the win rates on pro level. What Mc did in game2 is supposed to be a stand PvZ build? But you know what, a lesson says if toss plays stand against zerg, it is hopeless. ppl keep saying Mc is not innovative now, he goes stargate every time aganst zerg. But, if there is no voidray, how is toss supposed to do to survive from mass roaches. idk | ||
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SeaSwift
Scotland4486 Posts
On November 08 2011 22:24 double620 wrote: What Mc did in game2 is supposed to be a stand PvZ build? But you know what, a lesson says if toss plays stand against zerg, it is hopeless. I often see this fast 6 or 7gates from HuK to force some units from Zerg then taking a fast 3rd off of that. It seems like pretty much the only way to get a remotely fast 3rd base for Protoss. Unfortunately, those units that Zerg made to defend the 6-7gates can just as easily be used to force a cancel on that 3rd base, or else Zerg can just go Mutas after Roach/ling and shit all over those Gateway units, because Mutas can only be dealt with effectively by Storm, and when P only has basic Gateway units the situation looks pretty hopeless. On November 08 2011 22:24 double620 wrote: ppl keep saying Mc is not innovative now, he goes stargate every time aganst zerg. But, if there is no voidray, how is toss supposed to do to survive from mass roaches. idk There seems to be a misconception, largely put out there by ignorant casters, that MC is not innovative and won all his games off the back of 1-2base timings. While his 1-2 base timings did look near unstoppable in the hands of MC, he is pretty much the Nal-Ra of SC2 so far: he created many of the basic builds and timings that P players use all the time, from 1gate FE Stargate vs Zerg to 1gate FE into Gateway pressure vs Terran, and those that he didn't invent he refined and perfected. And the amazing thing is that the builds he invented and made popular can still be successful: it shows just how far ahead of everyone else he was when he won the GSL. Personally, I think that Protoss always looks massively behind in earlygame PvZ unless they cripple the Zerg with an early push. Things like FFE, fast Stargate etc were all invented to try to either stay even in economy or deal damage while not going all-in. Unfortunately, now that these are standard Zerg's have learned how to deal with them with ease and MC has to play from behind throughout the whole game. I agree with MC actually in his interviews. While PvT certainly doesn't look completely fine, it is a hell of a lot better than PvZ. With the EMP nerf, PvT may actually be pretty much balanced, while PvZ is going downhill all the time. Still: more Terrans in Code S than Zergs, so MC has a good chance with his beastly PvT! MC fighting! | ||
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Olinimm
1471 Posts
 but i guess every Protoss is. Hopefully his group is all terran or Protoss in GSL :D. | ||
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SeaSwift
Scotland4486 Posts
On November 08 2011 23:35 Olinimm wrote: MC seems lost in PvZ but i guess every Protoss is. Hopefully his group is all terran or Protoss in GSL :D.I'm really hoping for Clide or July. Standard PvZ seems broken, but July never played standard, and I have confidence that MC can pull out some hard pressure to beat July's style. Clide is Terran. And MC wins PvT. | ||
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Amornthep
Singapore2605 Posts
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double620
China804 Posts
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double620
China804 Posts
On November 09 2011 00:18 Amornthep wrote: July would be the best opponent he can hope for, he's the weakest zerg in Code S now. Although Clide's TvP is not that good, he practices with MC so he might know MC's weaknesses. how do u know he practice with Mc? | ||
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SeaSwift
Scotland4486 Posts
On November 09 2011 00:19 double620 wrote: It is funny that now casters call Oz the innovative toss and Oz recently lost many pvz games, and the only two he won against coca and bongbong was a copy of Mc's stargate play. Well. Idk if he is really that innovative?? Pffft. I barely listen to casters' analysis of play any more, especially on the Protoss side. Partly because it is their job to hype the game, and telling the audience that PvZ is broken and Protoss barely has a chance wouldn't be very good for their job. Partly because they constantly put down players like MC and have their own prejudices and biases. Partly because they plain miss things on the map a lot, like MC's play vs Idra in MLG - Tasteosis completely missed most of the mindgames MC was playing in that series. | ||
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Dragonmaster26
Australia311 Posts
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