|
EG hater but huk lover..... arggg still love you huk! keep owning. To satisfy my needs im just going to be happy when all of eg gets rocked at MLG execpt you and maybe Idra <3333 0-10 incontrol ftw
|
Huk, IdrA, and Puma in Korea will be pretty awesome!!
|
On August 17 2011 07:26 LiGhtoftheSwaRm wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2011 07:16 HolyArrow wrote:
I'm worried that HuK will decline as a player simply because he's living with IdrA and PuMa instead of the entire oGs house. Hopefully he'll still be able to practice with all of them, but it's not the same as being in the same room. I just don't understand this at all. Because of these past few days, as well as Huk's performance in the past few months I have become a fan; however, some people on the forum here are doing a great disservice to HuK as a player to immidietly assume his skill level will suffer atrophy for the express reason that he will no longer be in the TL-oGs house. HuK is where he is now through hard work and extreme perseverence, to think any different would be a knock on HuK himself. I understand how valuable strong practice partners can be in achieving such a goal, but let's be frankly honest, there is a certain amount of talent and aptitude that plays a large part in this process as well. Players like HuK (as well I believe someone like IdrA) understand the game at a different level than many other foreigners. This is why we have not seen similiar results from Haypro and from Jinro (recently, as much as I love the guy,) who have been in the exact same environment as HuK. IdrA left Korea 6 months ago because he was virtually alone, he wasn't really living with anyone and was not in a Team House environment, but he STILL was able to qualify and maintain a position in Code S despite these factors. Why? He was devoted to Starcraft at that time, and nothing else was on his mind. Also he had many Korean practice partners from various teams who were more than willing to help him train for various matchups as it was mutually beneficial for them. In the same way, HuK as long as he stays in Korea and stays FOCUSED will suffer no atrophy in his game play as long as his focus stays on improving his own skill level. All in all, I find this baseless criticism of HuK's decision to go to EG as a future loss in ability to be rooted in the fact TL members just can't come to grips with the fact there might be better situations for some players outside of what to them has become a storied experience in Korea with the TL-oGs team house. I don't believe this decision by HuK was made simply because of the money (though I'm sure it played a large part,) but it is quite possible that he felt he would have more opportunities to win tournaments in the future by joining EG. Which, if you are a fan of HuK and think he is a good player, then you should too. If you think however, that he will suffer atrophy and will simply be a terrible player now because he no longer is a member of your precious Liquid, then I guess we know what you were a fan of in the first place.
In oGs-TL he sat next to MC, Inca, Hero and Vines. How can sitting next to the best protoss in the world, the best pvp in the world and two other korean grandmaster protoss hurt?! His quality of practice is going to decline, only time will tell if his quality of play does too.
|
On August 17 2011 08:16 Oreo7 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2011 07:26 LiGhtoftheSwaRm wrote:On August 17 2011 07:16 HolyArrow wrote:
I'm worried that HuK will decline as a player simply because he's living with IdrA and PuMa instead of the entire oGs house. Hopefully he'll still be able to practice with all of them, but it's not the same as being in the same room. I just don't understand this at all. Because of these past few days, as well as Huk's performance in the past few months I have become a fan; however, some people on the forum here are doing a great disservice to HuK as a player to immidietly assume his skill level will suffer atrophy for the express reason that he will no longer be in the TL-oGs house. HuK is where he is now through hard work and extreme perseverence, to think any different would be a knock on HuK himself. I understand how valuable strong practice partners can be in achieving such a goal, but let's be frankly honest, there is a certain amount of talent and aptitude that plays a large part in this process as well. Players like HuK (as well I believe someone like IdrA) understand the game at a different level than many other foreigners. This is why we have not seen similiar results from Haypro and from Jinro (recently, as much as I love the guy,) who have been in the exact same environment as HuK. IdrA left Korea 6 months ago because he was virtually alone, he wasn't really living with anyone and was not in a Team House environment, but he STILL was able to qualify and maintain a position in Code S despite these factors. Why? He was devoted to Starcraft at that time, and nothing else was on his mind. Also he had many Korean practice partners from various teams who were more than willing to help him train for various matchups as it was mutually beneficial for them. In the same way, HuK as long as he stays in Korea and stays FOCUSED will suffer no atrophy in his game play as long as his focus stays on improving his own skill level. All in all, I find this baseless criticism of HuK's decision to go to EG as a future loss in ability to be rooted in the fact TL members just can't come to grips with the fact there might be better situations for some players outside of what to them has become a storied experience in Korea with the TL-oGs team house. I don't believe this decision by HuK was made simply because of the money (though I'm sure it played a large part,) but it is quite possible that he felt he would have more opportunities to win tournaments in the future by joining EG. Which, if you are a fan of HuK and think he is a good player, then you should too. If you think however, that he will suffer atrophy and will simply be a terrible player now because he no longer is a member of your precious Liquid, then I guess we know what you were a fan of in the first place. In oGs-TL he sat next to MC, Inca, Hero and Vines. How can sitting next to the best protoss in the world, the best pvp in the world and two other korean grandmaster protoss hurt?! His quality of practice is going to decline, only time will tell if his quality of play does too.
You don't need the best practice partners in the world to be good. If it was like that no one would be a good anything without practicing with MC/nestea/mvp. It's helpful but not a prerequisite.
|
On August 17 2011 08:00 Talin wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2011 06:28 cavalier117 wrote:
"Can there be successful esports organizations without successful esports? That's something the west never really had in the first place, not in small part due to the superficial and greedy understanding of "business" that people at the forefront of western esports always seem to have."
the west never had a big sports scene bc bw started before the age of internet in every household, and when there was internet, noone gave a shit about an antiquated game like BW. "moral business models" had nothing to do with it. but then you say that the korean model is the best way to do it to make esports successful. Reality check. Korea's "model" is failing and the they are falling off. (hence all the TSL crying and all the Korean teams dropping out of the NASL bc of lack of money) so what model works again? oh yea. the obvious one. I can't believe you're even trying to argue that western esports model is successful in any way, shape or form, while the Korean model that has brought e-sports at NATIONAL LEVEL and kept it there for a DECADE based almost on one single game unsupported by the developers is "falling off" just because Brood War can't push its age for what... 15, 20, 50 years and because the Korean scene is undergoing a major transition right now... Don't be silly. What makes Korean model WORK in a long run is that all the pro teams stick together and are very much directly invested in keeping, growing and protecting the (BW) scene, instead of greedily leeching off of each other until there's nothing left anymore. Talking about real world requires considering real facts. Real facts say that the way many people and organizations involved in western esports behave and do business is bad for everyone except themselves, and especially, you know, actual fans...
Not that this discussion belongs here, but..
Don't be silly. The reason the Korean Model works has almsot nothing to do at all with the players or teams within the system. The Korean Model worked because not only was the Korean population ready for a source of entertainment, but it was also small enough that even a fiber could become something quite grand in their entertainment scope.
Now look at America, Video Games in general already have a serious stigma to them thus it is very difficult to attract a fan base outside of people who are interested and/or play video games thus limiting the scope to smaller pockets in the fabric of a much larger group of people. This, coupled with the fact that in America, people look down on the accomplishments of Professional Gamers as a whole. Until this changes (and hopefully it does) Esports in the west, and most specifically in America will not be able to achieve what has happened in Korea with BW.
So honestly, failure of the foreign scene to develop has very little to do with (in my opinion) the teams, and much more to do with a much larger picture.
|
I've been a big HuK fan for awhile, a Liquid fan too. I just never signed up for the fan club, for no real reason really.
However, given the recent developments, sign me the fuck up.
|
On August 17 2011 08:20 Serpico wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2011 08:16 Oreo7 wrote:On August 17 2011 07:26 LiGhtoftheSwaRm wrote:On August 17 2011 07:16 HolyArrow wrote:
I'm worried that HuK will decline as a player simply because he's living with IdrA and PuMa instead of the entire oGs house. Hopefully he'll still be able to practice with all of them, but it's not the same as being in the same room. I just don't understand this at all. Because of these past few days, as well as Huk's performance in the past few months I have become a fan; however, some people on the forum here are doing a great disservice to HuK as a player to immidietly assume his skill level will suffer atrophy for the express reason that he will no longer be in the TL-oGs house. HuK is where he is now through hard work and extreme perseverence, to think any different would be a knock on HuK himself. I understand how valuable strong practice partners can be in achieving such a goal, but let's be frankly honest, there is a certain amount of talent and aptitude that plays a large part in this process as well. Players like HuK (as well I believe someone like IdrA) understand the game at a different level than many other foreigners. This is why we have not seen similiar results from Haypro and from Jinro (recently, as much as I love the guy,) who have been in the exact same environment as HuK. IdrA left Korea 6 months ago because he was virtually alone, he wasn't really living with anyone and was not in a Team House environment, but he STILL was able to qualify and maintain a position in Code S despite these factors. Why? He was devoted to Starcraft at that time, and nothing else was on his mind. Also he had many Korean practice partners from various teams who were more than willing to help him train for various matchups as it was mutually beneficial for them. In the same way, HuK as long as he stays in Korea and stays FOCUSED will suffer no atrophy in his game play as long as his focus stays on improving his own skill level. All in all, I find this baseless criticism of HuK's decision to go to EG as a future loss in ability to be rooted in the fact TL members just can't come to grips with the fact there might be better situations for some players outside of what to them has become a storied experience in Korea with the TL-oGs team house. I don't believe this decision by HuK was made simply because of the money (though I'm sure it played a large part,) but it is quite possible that he felt he would have more opportunities to win tournaments in the future by joining EG. Which, if you are a fan of HuK and think he is a good player, then you should too. If you think however, that he will suffer atrophy and will simply be a terrible player now because he no longer is a member of your precious Liquid, then I guess we know what you were a fan of in the first place. In oGs-TL he sat next to MC, Inca, Hero and Vines. How can sitting next to the best protoss in the world, the best pvp in the world and two other korean grandmaster protoss hurt?! His quality of practice is going to decline, only time will tell if his quality of play does too. You don't need the best practice partners in the world to be good. If it was like that no one would be a good anything without practicing with MC/nestea/mvp. It's helpful but not a prerequisite.
Obviously Huk will still be very good, but he it is very likely he will play worse, even if it is slight. I hope I'm wrong, but it's very likely.
|
On August 17 2011 08:21 ZAiNs wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2011 08:20 Serpico wrote:On August 17 2011 08:16 Oreo7 wrote:On August 17 2011 07:26 LiGhtoftheSwaRm wrote:On August 17 2011 07:16 HolyArrow wrote:
I'm worried that HuK will decline as a player simply because he's living with IdrA and PuMa instead of the entire oGs house. Hopefully he'll still be able to practice with all of them, but it's not the same as being in the same room. I just don't understand this at all. Because of these past few days, as well as Huk's performance in the past few months I have become a fan; however, some people on the forum here are doing a great disservice to HuK as a player to immidietly assume his skill level will suffer atrophy for the express reason that he will no longer be in the TL-oGs house. HuK is where he is now through hard work and extreme perseverence, to think any different would be a knock on HuK himself. I understand how valuable strong practice partners can be in achieving such a goal, but let's be frankly honest, there is a certain amount of talent and aptitude that plays a large part in this process as well. Players like HuK (as well I believe someone like IdrA) understand the game at a different level than many other foreigners. This is why we have not seen similiar results from Haypro and from Jinro (recently, as much as I love the guy,) who have been in the exact same environment as HuK. IdrA left Korea 6 months ago because he was virtually alone, he wasn't really living with anyone and was not in a Team House environment, but he STILL was able to qualify and maintain a position in Code S despite these factors. Why? He was devoted to Starcraft at that time, and nothing else was on his mind. Also he had many Korean practice partners from various teams who were more than willing to help him train for various matchups as it was mutually beneficial for them. In the same way, HuK as long as he stays in Korea and stays FOCUSED will suffer no atrophy in his game play as long as his focus stays on improving his own skill level. All in all, I find this baseless criticism of HuK's decision to go to EG as a future loss in ability to be rooted in the fact TL members just can't come to grips with the fact there might be better situations for some players outside of what to them has become a storied experience in Korea with the TL-oGs team house. I don't believe this decision by HuK was made simply because of the money (though I'm sure it played a large part,) but it is quite possible that he felt he would have more opportunities to win tournaments in the future by joining EG. Which, if you are a fan of HuK and think he is a good player, then you should too. If you think however, that he will suffer atrophy and will simply be a terrible player now because he no longer is a member of your precious Liquid, then I guess we know what you were a fan of in the first place. In oGs-TL he sat next to MC, Inca, Hero and Vines. How can sitting next to the best protoss in the world, the best pvp in the world and two other korean grandmaster protoss hurt?! His quality of practice is going to decline, only time will tell if his quality of play does too. You don't need the best practice partners in the world to be good. If it was like that no one would be a good anything without practicing with MC/nestea/mvp. It's helpful but not a prerequisite. Obviously Huk will still be very good, but he it is very likely he will play worse, even if it is slight. I hope I'm wrong, but it's very likely.
He has the Korean server, his oGs friends to help him out, Idra and Puma, and we still don't know where his practice house will be. For one, this could still be on the same level of training as before.
|
On August 17 2011 08:21 ZAiNs wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2011 08:20 Serpico wrote:On August 17 2011 08:16 Oreo7 wrote:On August 17 2011 07:26 LiGhtoftheSwaRm wrote:On August 17 2011 07:16 HolyArrow wrote:
I'm worried that HuK will decline as a player simply because he's living with IdrA and PuMa instead of the entire oGs house. Hopefully he'll still be able to practice with all of them, but it's not the same as being in the same room. I just don't understand this at all. Because of these past few days, as well as Huk's performance in the past few months I have become a fan; however, some people on the forum here are doing a great disservice to HuK as a player to immidietly assume his skill level will suffer atrophy for the express reason that he will no longer be in the TL-oGs house. HuK is where he is now through hard work and extreme perseverence, to think any different would be a knock on HuK himself. I understand how valuable strong practice partners can be in achieving such a goal, but let's be frankly honest, there is a certain amount of talent and aptitude that plays a large part in this process as well. Players like HuK (as well I believe someone like IdrA) understand the game at a different level than many other foreigners. This is why we have not seen similiar results from Haypro and from Jinro (recently, as much as I love the guy,) who have been in the exact same environment as HuK. IdrA left Korea 6 months ago because he was virtually alone, he wasn't really living with anyone and was not in a Team House environment, but he STILL was able to qualify and maintain a position in Code S despite these factors. Why? He was devoted to Starcraft at that time, and nothing else was on his mind. Also he had many Korean practice partners from various teams who were more than willing to help him train for various matchups as it was mutually beneficial for them. In the same way, HuK as long as he stays in Korea and stays FOCUSED will suffer no atrophy in his game play as long as his focus stays on improving his own skill level. All in all, I find this baseless criticism of HuK's decision to go to EG as a future loss in ability to be rooted in the fact TL members just can't come to grips with the fact there might be better situations for some players outside of what to them has become a storied experience in Korea with the TL-oGs team house. I don't believe this decision by HuK was made simply because of the money (though I'm sure it played a large part,) but it is quite possible that he felt he would have more opportunities to win tournaments in the future by joining EG. Which, if you are a fan of HuK and think he is a good player, then you should too. If you think however, that he will suffer atrophy and will simply be a terrible player now because he no longer is a member of your precious Liquid, then I guess we know what you were a fan of in the first place. In oGs-TL he sat next to MC, Inca, Hero and Vines. How can sitting next to the best protoss in the world, the best pvp in the world and two other korean grandmaster protoss hurt?! His quality of practice is going to decline, only time will tell if his quality of play does too. You don't need the best practice partners in the world to be good. If it was like that no one would be a good anything without practicing with MC/nestea/mvp. It's helpful but not a prerequisite. Obviously Huk will still be very good, but he it is very likely he will play worse, even if it is slight. I hope I'm wrong, but it's very likely.
I disagree somewhat, at worst imo his pvp would decline. even then I think he can easily request certain practice partners from other teams because he's popular in Korea. I feel like he has more friends to lean on then people think and EG is going to add more people to the house for sure. Three people has to be temporary. Imo sending players like demuslim while filling the house up with more established players to provide more practice partners is EG's goal. Demuslim is a perfect developmental player because he has the legit talent to be great I think. EG seems to be spending the money to show they're committed to creating a high level practice environment. I agree that not practicing with MC hurts, but if you can only be great practicing with that one player you may be too dependent on them.
|
GL huk I hope you keep your work ethic and only lose to liquid players and also maybe to naniwa.
beat everyone else though :-)
|
Don't like this decision from HuK. EG might be offering him more money but at what cost.. EG's players are all pretty shitty except for PuMa and maybe IdrA if he stops dicking around. They're also all pretty BM unlike TL's line up..
Don't know why he would be a sellout like this..
|
-.- Well Huk may lose a portion of his face-to-face interaction with people like MC, but if Huk has a big PvP coming up, and then needs some practice, calls up MC, will MC be like "naw brah, you ain't my friend anymore because you changed temas."? He is still going to have the connections and friendships he made and changing teams =/= burning bridges
|
On August 17 2011 08:32 CeriseCherries wrote:
-.- Well Huk may lose a portion of his face-to-face interaction with people like MC, but if Huk has a big PvP coming up, and then needs some practice, calls up MC, will MC be like "naw brah, you ain't my friend anymore because you changed temas."? He is still going to have the connections and friendships he made and changing teams =/= burning bridges
Sure MC will help him, but it's a COMPLETELY different situation to sitting next to MC and living in the same house as him.
|
On August 17 2011 08:00 Talin wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2011 06:28 cavalier117 wrote:
"Can there be successful esports organizations without successful esports? That's something the west never really had in the first place, not in small part due to the superficial and greedy understanding of "business" that people at the forefront of western esports always seem to have."
the west never had a big sports scene bc bw started before the age of internet in every household, and when there was internet, noone gave a shit about an antiquated game like BW. "moral business models" had nothing to do with it. but then you say that the korean model is the best way to do it to make esports successful. Reality check. Korea's "model" is failing and the they are falling off. (hence all the TSL crying and all the Korean teams dropping out of the NASL bc of lack of money) so what model works again? oh yea. the obvious one. I can't believe you're even trying to argue that western esports model is successful in any way, shape or form, while the Korean model that has brought e-sports at NATIONAL LEVEL and kept it there for a DECADE based almost on one single game unsupported by the developers is "falling off" just because Brood War can't push its age for what... 15, 20, 50 years and because the Korean scene is undergoing a major transition right now... Don't be silly. We can talk about reality checks when any western e-sport bubble survives and thrives past like TWO years with reasonably high level organization, let alone becomes anywhere close to mainstream for a decade. Oh, and I'm not advocating business based on morals at all. Just long term sustainability. Teams like EG and SK can sustain themselves by jumping wagons from one hot esport title to the other and reaping the benefits. They are not in any way invested and couldn't care less about long term survival of Starcraft 2, it's just one game in the line for them - they will exploit the publicity it until it's no longer worth it, and then move to Dota 2, the new CS thing or whatever comes out next, because there's always the next big bubble. What makes Korean model WORK in a long run is that all the pro teams stick together and are very much directly invested in keeping, growing and protecting the (BW) scene, instead of greedily leeching off of each other until there's nothing left anymore. Talking about real world requires considering real facts. Real facts say that the way many people and organizations involved in western esports behave and do business is bad for everyone except themselves, and especially, you know, actual fans...
you still dont make sense... lets compare Korea/foreign success;
Korea- one tournament where you HAVE to be there in person, and if you do well, cant leave to compete in other tournements due to having to be there. and no VODs for free...
-teams have less money and cant afford to send their players abroad on their own, sadly even though they are the best players.
Everywhere else- great tourneys both offline and online and much easier to access and more money.
-teams have money to send their players everywhere and provide better conditions for them.
-VODs are usually always free
who is doing better and sustaining themselves?
next you cry about about teams doing multiple games? why are you mad at that? whats wrong with branching out to more people? your just blind and since you dont care about these other games, you just assume EG does it "to leech until there's nothing left" im pretty sure the 80k viewers watching EVO disagree with you.
regarding Koreans lasting a decade, that same investment is what is killing them. BW is dieing, even in Korea, less and less people are watching, even koreans, and bc they have invested so much in BW, they arent willing to start moving on to help grow SC2. ask anyone involved, thats why sc2 is so slow to take off in Korea, bc BW wont die, but BW isnt getting any bigger, just smaller.
as for Korean teams sticking together.... the sc2con fiasco doesnt seem very "unified"....
then you say teams only do things that benefit themselves... the players that reap these benefits seem to disagree with you. and they are getting more fans than ever.
|
I don't believe this decision by HuK was made simply because of the money
Have you even read the statements on the matter? HuK himself said the only reason he switched was $$ EG offered him.
That said, can't blame the guy if he got a great offer, although I can't see myself rooting for him any more. Not a fan of EG at all, even less so after this buy out.
|
:O :'(
This makes me sad... I hope it works out for him.
|
Best of luck HuK, I will keep watching and rooting for you!
|
If you have to have the best practice partners then how do mvp and nestea constantly improve, when they are the best at their race?
|
I'm not entirely sure how I feel about your choice HuK, but one thing remains true, I remember watching at the edge of my seat during MLG Raleigh, rooting for a Canadian Protoss named HuK.
You're still HuK and I'm still a fan. Fighting!
|
i laugh at those who say that "Liquid will hopefully one day grow to rival EG".
as it is Liquid is already better team. except Idra, EG sucks, when has that changed? sure they bough out code s material in puma and huk in a recent month, but while that was happening Liquid made players such as Jinro and Huk into most sucesfull foreigners in sc2 history to date (because getting the results in Korea > petty shit in the west)
i'm so sad to see Liquid's vision and hard work destroyed just by the ability to pay more.
that said, i cant bring myself to care for Huk in the future.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
