EPTBtw someone needs to tell him to stream again! : D
The IdrA Fan Club - Page 554
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Smapz
Norway405 Posts
Btw someone needs to tell him to stream again! : D | ||
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DharmaTurtle
United States283 Posts
On May 24 2011 12:17 Moralez wrote: He did nothing because he couldnt, because of 15 sentries can't you understand that? /facepalm He tried to attack he just kept getting FFed back and loosing units >_< There were not 15 sentries, liar. There were 15 stalkers, with zero sentry support wandering onto creep, close to a mass of zerglings and roaches. And then wandered off again, scot free. Zero losses. At no point in either game were there 15 sentries, anywhere. | ||
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TheLight
Australia410 Posts
On May 24 2011 12:34 Smapz wrote: I'm sorry to interrupt the qq-ing and balance discussion, but are there any VoDs from the matches? Btw someone needs to tell him to stream again! : D Right here: http://www.justin.tv/iccuptv/b/286533834 | ||
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JKira
Canada1002 Posts
On May 24 2011 12:02 DharmaTurtle wrote: Oh, I agree completely! Idra was ahead, and by quite a bit. He just did nothing with his food advantage and allowed Toss to max out. This was a crucial mistake and renders the previous food advantage completely pointless. I just need to point something out. Food advantages are usually not good indicators of who is ahead in PvZ. This is because due to how Toss works, there will be a period where after you expand where you can't really do pressure damage unless your build was a timing attack/allin/stargate play, because you built a bunch of sentries without attacking units (standard protoss play). This leaves the Zerg free to take a third and drone up massively, which IdrA did perfectly in that 2nd game. As soon as he finished droning, he made nothing but roaches, which as we all know, are supply inefficient. This means that in ANY typical PvZ where the Zerg is taking a quick third and going roach play you will see a disparity in supply, where the Zerg looks like he has a massive advantage. It doesn't really mean that IdrA "outplayed" XiaoT just because he made cheaper units than XiaoT, who was chronoboosting the fastest +3 Attack you've ever seen in your life and getting blink, which naturally means you have less of an army cause you are getting more tech. Conclusion: supply advantages in early-mid game PvZ are not indicative of the Zerg being ahead. Since XiaoT didn't even go Collosus tech until really late IdrA could've punished it with Infestor Ling Baneling, which is a great composition vs Blink Stalkers and Sentries. Now I'm not saying that IdrA would've won the game if he did that since XiaoT could've scouted and possibly changed his composition, but don't be mad when he can't do anything with Roach and ground Banelings. Can you think of any other Zerg unit composition more susceptible to good forcefield play besides like Roach/Ling or Ling/Baneling? (lol) Anyways, I know I might be preaching to deaf ears in this thread, but I feel like it's better to discuss what IdrA could've done differently to win instead of how unwinnable and broken the game is. | ||
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Azarkon
United States21060 Posts
On May 24 2011 12:23 babylon wrote: + Show Spoiler + To clear up any misunderstandings: Game 1 was played on the CHN server, Game 2 on the NA server, so they both had to deal with lag. It's a good system, I think, as it pretty much gives both players home server advantage at least once. I'm not sure what they would've done had it gone onto a Game 3. Neutral server? + Show Spoiler + Yeah, I can understand Idra's choice to cheese in the first game since it was against a nexus first and it was on the CHN server. I can also understand his choice to macro the second game since it was on the NA server and on Metalopolis. But that style on Metalopolis doesn't seem to be very effective. He was probably afraid that if he loaded his banelings into his overlords he'd lose them to blink stalker snipes, but XiaoT just exploited that fear by getting more FFs. Idra really needed to flank but as you said, XiaoT's scouting was good. Still, flanking and constantly dropping and trading units is how you beat Protoss. | ||
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DharmaTurtle
United States283 Posts
Err, but you don't really want to attack into a protoss army with forcefields. With this reasoning, you never attack Protoss, ever, because Z doesn't have EMP. | ||
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Mycl
Australia1370 Posts
On May 24 2011 12:45 DharmaTurtle wrote: With this reasoning, you never attack Protoss, ever, because Z doesn't have EMP. "Don't attack the Protoss!' Seems to be the common theme of defending the match up these days. I would love to get the opinion of some of these players who argue the match up is balanced, at what point does the protoss get to the 'This control group is now unstoppable' stage? I used to think it was 200/200 but from the results of the Starwars tournament people argue it comes earlier now. | ||
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phfantunes
Brazil170 Posts
Even if they made Roaches 1 supply again, gave Broodlords Yamato Cannon, made Kerrigan and the Overmind hero units and Infested Sentries our tier 1 unit, here, Zerg would still be underbalanced when IdrA loses. Seriously, take your balance argument elsewhere, nobody wants to hear that here. | ||
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Chriscras
Korea (South)2812 Posts
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xtfftc
United Kingdom2343 Posts
On May 24 2011 12:44 JKira wrote: I just need to point something out. Food advantages are usually not good indicators of who is ahead in PvZ. This is because due to how Toss works, there will be a period where after you expand where you can't really do pressure damage unless your build was a timing attack/allin/stargate play, because you built a bunch of sentries without attacking units (standard protoss play). This leaves the Zerg free to take a third and drone up massively, which IdrA did perfectly in that 2nd game. As soon as he finished droning, he made nothing but roaches, which as we all know, are supply inefficient. This means that in ANY typical PvZ where the Zerg is taking a quick third and going roach play you will see a disparity in supply, where the Zerg looks like he has a massive advantage. It doesn't really mean that IdrA "outplayed" XiaoT just because he made cheaper units than XiaoT, who was chronoboosting the fastest +3 Attack you've ever seen in your life and getting blink, which naturally means you have less of an army cause you are getting more tech. Conclusion: supply advantages in early-mid game PvZ are not indicative of the Zerg being ahead. Since XiaoT didn't even go Collosus tech until really late IdrA could've punished it with Infestor Ling Baneling, which is a great composition vs Blink Stalkers and Sentries. Now I'm not saying that IdrA would've won the game if he did that since XiaoT could've scouted and possibly changed his composition, but don't be mad when he can't do anything with Roach and ground Banelings. Can you think of any other Zerg unit composition more susceptible to good forcefield play besides like Roach/Ling or Ling/Baneling? (lol) Anyways, I know I might be preaching to deaf ears in this thread, but I feel like it's better to discuss what IdrA could've done differently to win instead of how unwinnable and broken the game is. I hope more casters realise this.. I honestly don't understand why even good commentators keep on comparing supplies, especially when there's a Zerg massing roaches. | ||
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phfantunes
Brazil170 Posts
On May 24 2011 14:13 Chriscras wrote: I <3<3<3 IdrA, but does anyone know why he maxed out on 200 supply roaches and then did NOT have burrow movement when fighting XiaoT? From what I can tell from his stream, he's favoring banelings against the sentries. I haven't seen him research Tunneling Claws in a while. Burrow+Tunneling Claws is only 50m/50gas cheaper than Overlord Speed/Drops and the latter is way, way, way more useful that the previous combination. | ||
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Essentia
1150 Posts
On May 24 2011 10:28 DharmaTurtle wrote: Lol, what are you suggesting? Broodlings already fly over FFs and ultras crush FFs. Zerg tier 3 DOES negate FFs. But nooooo TOSS OP. LOL ya so zerg has to get a tier 3 unit that costs 300/200 in order to counter a tier 1 unit that costs 50/100, makes a lot of sense to me! | ||
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routinetrafficstop
United States180 Posts
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Deleted User 101379
4849 Posts
On May 24 2011 13:49 Mycl wrote: "Don't attack the Protoss!' Seems to be the common theme of defending the match up these days. I would love to get the opinion of some of these players who argue the match up is balanced, at what point does the protoss get to the 'This control group is now unstoppable' stage? I used to think it was 200/200 but from the results of the Starwars tournament people argue it comes earlier now. Well, "Don't attack the Protoss!" is correct, though incomplete. The full sentence is "Don't attack the Protoss head-on!". The Protoss army is a lot like terran mech, it's very immobile but can kill almost everything in an open fight. The Zerg army is the exact opposite, it's fast and mobile, especially with drop tech. Spanishiwas midgame style is an excellent example of how it can work. IdrA is a really good player in terms of mechanics, macro, micro, etc, now he just needs to learn that brute force frontal assaults don't always get you a win. I do think that he is already improving in that regard, so i think he will revise his balance views soon and maybe rage a little less :p Edit: Oh no, i got caught by the balance discussion  | ||
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KimJongChill
United States6429 Posts
On May 24 2011 13:57 phfantunes wrote: Stop this stupid balance argument that infects the entire forum. Protoss player, begone. Even if they made Roaches 1 supply again, gave Broodlords Yamato Cannon, made Kerrigan and the Overmind hero units and Infested Sentries our tier 1 unit, here, Zerg would still be underbalanced when IdrA loses. Seriously, take your balance argument elsewhere, nobody wants to hear that here. Hey, I'd be pretty happy with just 1 supply roach. I think having 120 roaches instead of 60 would actually allow zerg to fight evenly against collosus/sentry/stalker deathball without having to rely on infestors and drops. | ||
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epikAnglory
United States1120 Posts
ON TOPIC, I hope IdrA succeeds in his future tournaments, he seems to definitely be a top foreigner right now with the most potential. Really hope he returns back to Korea when he finds that the time is appropriate. | ||
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Mailing
United States3087 Posts
On May 24 2011 14:53 Morfildur wrote: Well, "Don't attack the Protoss!" is correct, though incomplete. The full sentence is "Don't attack the Protoss head-on!". The Protoss army is a lot like terran mech, it's very immobile but can kill almost everything in an open fight. The Zerg army is the exact opposite, it's fast and mobile, especially with drop tech. Spanishiwas midgame style is an excellent example of how it can work. IdrA is a really good player in terms of mechanics, macro, micro, etc, now he just needs to learn that brute force frontal assaults don't always get you a win. I do think that he is already improving in that regard, so i think he will revise his balance views soon and maybe rage a little less :p Edit: Oh no, i got caught by the balance discussion Chinese protoss favor blink stalkers, which are more mobile than roaches, lol. The only thing faster is zergling/muta comps, which are awful against competent protoss who defend until they get psi storm and then you can't use your units at all without mass tech switching to T3 As for people spouting "drop banes".... blink stalkers also counter that quite heavily. You only seen it working on protoss like Inca. | ||
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Deleted User 101379
4849 Posts
On May 24 2011 15:27 Mailing wrote: Chinese protoss favor blink stalkers, which are more mobile than roaches, lol. The only thing faster is zergling/muta comps, which are awful against competent protoss who defend until they get psi storm and then you can't use your units at all without mass tech switching to T3 As for people spouting "drop banes".... blink stalkers also counter that quite heavily. You only seen it working on protoss like Inca. Well, every strategy requires a different counter. Massing roaches against anything is as wrong as massing only Zerglings against Zealot/Sentry/Colossi... also: Sentries can't blink, so no forcefields if you force them to run around and blink everywhere and zealots can't blink either, so no zealots (except for warp-ins of course) preventing the lings to bite the stalkers in the ankles. Ok, i'll stop adding to the discussion now, it's not the right place. | ||
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enemy2010
Germany1972 Posts
The video is like 10 minutes long, and just at the end there is a guys appearing for 3 seconds who looks EXACTLY like Idra? | ||
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VashTS
United States1675 Posts
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