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Personal attacks in this thread will draw a temp ban. |
Ok I don't feel like countering every single point again but:
1- Beside if you engage in a very opened space (shattered temple, as you said, provides it but it's one of the only map which gives you such an easy opportunity of surrounding), it's hard to micro your ultralisks and banelings correctly, and that's considering the protoss doesn't micro at all
2- I love using banelings with overlord to carpet drop a ball, so I know the banelings can be effective if you're using them in their full potential, but as the banelings would stream through the ultralisks, it wouldn't do that much damage. The exception being if you surround the ball (which gives the zerg such an advantage that it can win VS a deathball - sadly it's very hard to come up with on most maps).
3- Talking about pure cost effectiveness, Void Rays completely slaughter corrupters, and in high numbers (~12+), they become cost effective VS hydralisks as well. There's a reason why the dreaded Colossi/VoidRays combo hurt so much lately.
Also the IdrA won that match on steppes with ultralisks. But he still used them on many other maps. I think he stopped using them that much after 1.12 or 1.13. Anyway, the ultralisk should be about ~15% smaller (along with the goddamned infestors).
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Just a thought I'd like to throw out there: during the beta TvZ was kind of imbalanced and Idra whined about it and Terran in general. Now that TvZ seems to be pretty damn balanced (and fun to watch), Idra hasn't said a thing about Terran. But he did get some flak for complaining about T back then.
Now he's doing the same for PvZ and he's getting flak again. I think it's kind of a shame, because he's right. People are killing the [very rude] messenger imo.
idra <3
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On April 14 2011 13:16 Mitchlew wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2011 13:06 mentallyafk wrote:On April 14 2011 13:03 Mitchlew wrote:On April 14 2011 12:57 mentallyafk wrote:
cruncher vs darkforce kinda proves idra's point about protoss deathball If it was so good how come every protoss doesn't use it. How come NASL day 1 no protoss took a set? 1. i have no idea why every protoss doesn't use it. 2. they lost because they didn't I will just listen to the progamers and expeerts opinion. This excludes idra because according to incontrol tyler and day9 the imbalance is all in his head and he loses before he starts. Protoss is not OP. Lets look at artosis, he is having a terrible time as protoss than he was with zerg, grass is always greener on the other side. gg
lets look at every single pro zerg, all of them HATE zvp.
lets look at artosis, he doesn't play the game nearly as much as every other pro player. Lets look at artosis' strategy, he went few collossi many gateway units. that's the "i hope he over makes corruptors" build, but in fact it was the opposite. sheths pure roach baneling bomb would have been completely nullified if the toss had included a stargate into his play, but it was the perfect counter to what artosis had. (sheth owns, i'm sure he did that after scouting, or would have transitioned had there been more tech units) Mass gateway units are NOT something you should be relying on through the mid game to late game. It's either early - mid game timings, or switching to mass gates at the end of the game when there's 20 corruptors flying around.
I personally have no idea why stargates are not used more often, and i'm a zerg player. Start off with phoenixs and mutas/drops/overlord map scouting is shut down, you have the stargates to put voids in your army and you have a great counter for a wide variety of situations that have managed to beat protosses lately. (mostly, just, drops of all kinds)
the deathball is pretty untouchable, the best responses are mass mass corruptors and remax, or infestors, and both of those are mediocre responses. Tyler said that zerg shouldn't be able to beat the deathball, which is an interesting point. but with phoenixs flying everywhere then drops and army split ups will be scouted and stopped. He then went on to mention that high level TvZ involved trying to drop even though zerg had counters to dropships flying everywhere, so maybe that's what zergs need to do more of here, but I don't know.
you have to drop a crap ton to break any protoss base, even assuming there's no units nearby, as cannons are dropped down all willy nilly at every expo and forcing a base trade generally ends terribly for a zerg.
at this point i'd say mass drops would result in a higher win % for pro zergs, but it depends on how it's handled. (I always remember thinking, "don't go back! just go kill him!" and then the toss goes back, kills the zerg army after losing a mining base, the zerg is remaxed and scraps out the victory 1 more remax later.)
Personally, i'm not happy with how things are. I've never been one to blindly copy pro zergs, but lately i've been trying both my own strategies and pro strategies in order to win. Then I lost a ZvP with 15k more resource score, 20k more unit score and I wanted to blow up the world afterwards. So I'm breaking till Pro Zergs find some quality responses to standard protoss play or till zerg gets buffed.
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What a mother fucking boss Idra is. <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3
![[image loading]](http://s.sk-gaming.com/image/album/361683/17efded018540eb8.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://s.sk-gaming.com/image/album/361683/20db976038240e22.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://s.sk-gaming.com/image/album/361683/96f3e21de4640e26.jpg)
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Can I be added to the fan club please? I love how he says it like it is. Minces no words, dood. I'm a fan!!
So a sidenote, I also love how the fanclub thread is filled with people whining about balance. LOL! Birds of a feather flock together, I guess.
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Made this 4 you Idra ^^
![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/rm5dt.jpg)
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i feel like i should leave my name here :D i like the guy
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On April 14 2011 18:32 Walegon wrote:Made this 4 you Idra ^^
hahahahahahaha oh my gosh you are a brave man! Love it
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HAhahaha that is so funny
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Italy68 Posts
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If TL had a "Like" system like facebook I'd like that post a hundred times :D
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Eh, I feel sorry for the 'fat' Huk fan. Kinda low.
And to be attributing that to Idra...
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They made an interesting point on SOTG where Corruptor Brood Lord Infestor + X is strong. Infestors with Neural Parasite are indeed pretty strong. I was thinking of something like 6 Ultras 12 Infestors 9 Brood Lords and rest Corruptors to be a strong looking way to break the ball.
Ultras make room for the Infestors to NP Voidrays which the Corruptors + VRs will eat the rest. Fungals keep the Stalkers in place from which if they blink to kill Broods or Infestors even if they did Ultras end up with a better splash damage area.
Of course this is all just theorycrafting and ideas but I've tried it a few times and it hasn't been so bad.
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On April 14 2011 01:13 OrchidThief wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2011 21:54 Pinna wrote:Hmm, IdrA, you sneaky little pirate! I was watching one of his old streams, and guess what I saw on his desktop! A bittorrent shortcut! Oh dear, IdrA, you should show us how to behave, and you just pirate it away! I am still your fan thought  Filesharing isn't illegal y'know? Sharing stuff you don't own -- is.
Oh wait, you're right! But who knows, maybe he is a top downloader in piratebay? Nah, IdrA wouldn't play anything else than StarCraft, he doesn't have time for movies, and I think he buys the CD's of the bands which he loves.
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Love this :D Huk seems a nice guy, but IdrA is way too badass for him.
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On April 14 2011 13:16 Mitchlew wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2011 13:06 mentallyafk wrote:On April 14 2011 13:03 Mitchlew wrote:On April 14 2011 12:57 mentallyafk wrote:
cruncher vs darkforce kinda proves idra's point about protoss deathball If it was so good how come every protoss doesn't use it. How come NASL day 1 no protoss took a set? 1. i have no idea why every protoss doesn't use it. 2. they lost because they didn't I will just listen to the progamers and expeerts opinion. This excludes idra because according to incontrol tyler and day9 the imbalance is all in his head and he loses before he starts. Protoss is not OP. Lets look at artosis, he is having a terrible time as protoss than he was with zerg, grass is always greener on the other side. gg
If you thought Artosis was playing well, or even average, you're off. It looked like he thought he knew what he should do, but wasn't doing it. Referencing Artosis to get your point across makes no sense. He played terribly, and he's aware of his mistakes. And as for incontrol/tyler/day9 Two protosses and a person who doesn't even play on the same competitive level anymore. Who do you think understands the game's perspective from the Zerg point of view more, IdrA, a world class Zerg? Or Day9? I love Day9, but I'm not going to sit here and pretend I think he's right just for being Day9. Almost all of his suggestions for the Zerg race to beat Protoss are completely unrealistic, and would only work in a world where Zerg units cost a fraction of what they cost now, and hatcheries are free.
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ok I usually think idra fanarts are reta... questionable but this one is actually great :D
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On April 14 2011 13:03 Mitchlew wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2011 12:57 mentallyafk wrote:
cruncher vs darkforce kinda proves idra's point about protoss deathball If it was so good how come every protoss doesn't use it. How come NASL day 1 no protoss took a set?
Well lets see:
Grubby was outclassed by moon
Artosis was even more horribly outclassed by Sheth, and it still took sheth 30 minutes to win despite being up 3 bases after the 15 minute mark
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On April 15 2011 00:15 loveeholicce wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2011 13:03 Mitchlew wrote:On April 14 2011 12:57 mentallyafk wrote:
cruncher vs darkforce kinda proves idra's point about protoss deathball If it was so good how come every protoss doesn't use it. How come NASL day 1 no protoss took a set? Well lets see: Grubby was outclassed by moon Artosis was even more horribly outclassed by Sheth, and it still took sheth 30 minutes to win despite being up 3 bases after the 15 minute mark
Its not just that. In the Grubby vs Moon series, that map was so terrible for zerg. Engagement was impossible in so many areas without getting forcefilede and owned. Moon only managed to win game with good tech switches.
And yea, its hilarious how long Sheth needed to kill Artosis and how many unit switches he had to make to seal the deal, even on a relatively open map.
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On April 14 2011 22:18 Denzil wrote:
They made an interesting point on SOTG where Corruptor Brood Lord Infestor + X is strong. Infestors with Neural Parasite are indeed pretty strong. I was thinking of something like 6 Ultras 12 Infestors 9 Brood Lords and rest Corruptors to be a strong looking way to break the ball.
Ultras make room for the Infestors to NP Voidrays which the Corruptors + VRs will eat the rest. Fungals keep the Stalkers in place from which if they blink to kill Broods or Infestors even if they did Ultras end up with a better splash damage area.
Of course this is all just theorycrafting and ideas but I've tried it a few times and it hasn't been so bad.
Just gonna say what everyone looking at this post is thinking... gasssssssssssssssssssssss
It takes a long time to build up that ball of units, and during that time you're vulnerable - I agree it's strong, but there's a piece missing (the part where you don't die).
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EPT
