On January 20 2011 04:49 dsousa wrote: <3 Idra.... but
In competition, or sporting events, sometimes you need to force your opponent to finish the job. By GG'ing so early in game 2 Idra let Jinro off the hook from having to actually earn the win and overcome his nerves. You could say he was likely to lose anyways, but the fact remains that the situation was extremely high pressure and Jinro would have had to still step up and win that game.
Pressure of the moment changes things alot.... watch any sport... free throws at the end of the game, field goals from short distance, tennis pro's double faulting on match point..... it happens all the time in every form of sport.
Jinro's shown he can be affected by the pressure, but instead of having to overcome that and work to get his first win in the series, Idra just gave it to him.
Did you see the look of relief on Jinro's face when Idra gg'd out? The smart move would have been to make Jinro work hard to every scrap... give him NOTHING! Make him beat the pressure.
It is a lot harder and a lot more draining to play from behind in a long game and end up losing than it is to cruise to victory.
On January 20 2011 04:49 dsousa wrote: <3 Idra.... but
In competition, or sporting events, sometimes you need to force your opponent to finish the job. By GG'ing so early in game 2 Idra let Jinro off the hook from having to actually earn the win and overcome his nerves. You could say he was likely to lose anyways, but the fact remains that the situation was extremely high pressure and Jinro would have had to still step up and win that game.
Pressure of the moment changes things alot.... watch any sport... free throws at the end of the game, field goals from short distance, tennis pro's double faulting on match point..... it happens all the time in every form of sport.
Jinro's shown he can be affected by the pressure, but instead of having to overcome that and work to get his first win in the series, Idra just gave it to him.
Did you see the look of relief on Jinro's face when Idra gg'd out? The smart move would have been to make Jinro work hard to every scrap... give him NOTHING! Make him beat the pressure.
By this logic, bad maps and positions instantly give "free throws" to certain races. Why should IdrA lose in a heartbreaking slugfest just because he's a Zerg and his opponent happens to be Terran? Same logic for Jungle Basin.
On January 20 2011 02:31 Foreplay wrote: seeing that 1 health marine get away hurt my brain so much.
Proof that timing is very important in Starcraft 2.
Actually, Jinro said that during the first attempt to cancel the rax, he cancelled the marine instead. And then rebuilt it. So it came out a good deal AFTER it was supposed to.
Admittedly, this threw Idra off, because he was expecting it sooner. But when you have nothing but your lings and drones to look at, you should still be able to catch that bastard.
Yep, even canceling and remaking the marine still defends 6 pool, and dont talk about what threw or didnt throw Idra off, you dont have insight into anyone's mind but your own.
Also one cannot kill the marine that running through scvs, that game showed quite well. It really sucks to see one single marine in a bunker defeat a push with 8 lings and 7 drones. But Idra make a right choice, ZvT on JB is basically impossible. Too bad that 2 and 3rd game didnt go Idra's way.
I'm not talking about what defends and what doesn't defend 6pool. I personally think 6pool is crap and micro should defend it.
That being said, Idra should have taken the game easily. The barracks was isolated and surrounded. He made a mistake. I don't care what you wanna call it, but i was 100% a mistake. It had nothing to do with maps/balance/whatever. I bet that 4 times out of 5 Idra would have easily killed that marine. We've seen him stop a marine during bunker rushes with 4-5 drones ALONE not to mention that + 8 lings. Please.
Why he made the mistake, I don't know, but as I said, give him the exact same scenario 5 times and I bet he would've killed the marine 4 times easily. The SCVs helped distract, but should NOT be enough to block that many units. Especially at that level of skill.
And I don't get it, I used to hate Idra, then I started really liking his play style, since I saw interviews, and saw him mix it up, etc, but I still dislike Idra fanboysm. How is it that every time he loses it's because of maps and/or positioning. It's never about him making a mistake. Come on, wake up and admit it.
Anyway, GG Idra. Just because we'll be rooting for Jinro during the rest of the GSL doesn't mean we like you any less. And no, this is not trolling, it's just sportsmanship. I don't see why you WOULDN'T want the guy who took down Idra to win. It will only make Idra look that much better.
It is a lot harder and a lot more draining to play from behind in a long game and end up losing than it is to cruise to victory.
This is true... but its hard to get your first victory of a series. Playing a long game down 0-1 is alot of pressure on Jinro.
Lets put it this way... I'm pretty sure Jinro is happy Idra just gg'd there.
All that being said... I think the maps are shit, close position on Met sux... Marines are OP..... Thors are just wrong.... its all true.
I rage at T all the time... hate them.... zerg early game is complete BS.
Idra is the better player, but Terran is the better race.
I want Idra to be the best player in the world... I think he has a good chance at it..... thats why I posted my thoughs on his early gg. I stand by what I said. Make Jinro finish the job! It sux to see i know.... believe me i know.... zerglings getting melted in milliseconds by marines, but there was still a chance.
You guys make the same points you used to make back when NesTea won the GSL. Everyone was crying Terran imba but someone managed to plow through Terrans and get the title.
I guess some people never learn.
You should support the player, and hope for him to improve even when the odds are against him. Not hope that patches will come and make it easier for him. Where's the support for Idra? Really.
On January 20 2011 05:38 CubEdIn wrote: You guys make the same points you used to make back when NesTea won the GSL. Everyone was crying Terran imba but someone managed to plow through Terrans and get the title.
Go away, troll. Do not insult everyone on this thread.
Idra is a trail blazer. He's literally a 20 year old kid, in a foreign land, with a crappy team ( compared w/ TeamLiquid) fighting all comers and showing no fear!
He's a hero. He's an American and he's good.
He is made of win!
We're just disappointed he lost... but he's like the white Boxer... nothing can undo his legacy or what he's already done relative to his peers.
People don't give him nearly enough credit... I mean being the only white player on the BW team is amazing in itself.. being in Korea doing all this w/o a team house like liquid... is nuts.... he's one of kind.
On January 20 2011 05:46 dsousa wrote: Idra is a trail blazer. He's literally a 20 year old kid, in a foreign land, with a crappy team ( compared w/ TeamLiquid) fighting all comers and showing no fear!
He's a hero. And he's good.
He is made of win!
We're just disappointed he lost... but he's like the white Boxer... nothing can undo his legacy or what he's already done relative to his peers.
People don't give him nearly enough credit... I mean being the only white player on the BW team is amazing in itself.. being in Korea doing all this w/o a team house like liquid... is nuts.... he's one of kind.
On January 20 2011 02:31 Foreplay wrote: seeing that 1 health marine get away hurt my brain so much.
Proof that timing is very important in Starcraft 2.
Actually, Jinro said that during the first attempt to cancel the rax, he cancelled the marine instead. And then rebuilt it. So it came out a good deal AFTER it was supposed to.
Admittedly, this threw Idra off, because he was expecting it sooner. But when you have nothing but your lings and drones to look at, you should still be able to catch that bastard.
Yep, even canceling and remaking the marine still defends 6 pool, and dont talk about what threw or didnt throw Idra off, you dont have insight into anyone's mind but your own.
It did throw IdrA off. If you looked at the game carefully, we was running lings around the marines spawn point exactly when it should have spawned. Except Jinro accidentally canceled it which threw the timing off completely. Tell me how that didn't throw IdrA off. It lead to wasted DPS time (lings were running around doing nothing) and probably distracted him from getting the marine when it did spawn. And it bought Jinro time to bring SCVs.
That being said, Idra should have taken the game easily. The barracks was isolated and surrounded. He made a mistake. I don't care what you wanna call it, but i was 100% a mistake. It had nothing to do with maps/balance/whatever.
I don't see how that is a mistake. He had his lings ready right when a marine should have spawned. It was luck IMO when Jinro canceled that Marine. If it would've stayed queued, the marine would have been instantly surrounded and IdrA would have likely took that game.
And don't say that you shouldn't assume what your opponent would do. I cannot imagine a reason that a player would intentionally cancel his only Marine with lings inside his base.
I really think IdrA's choice of 6 pool was perfect, but this is one of the reasons he hates cheese. It is so fragile. He loss to his opponent making a mistake. Not many times can you say that in Starcraft
On January 20 2011 04:49 dsousa wrote: <3 Idra.... but
In competition, or sporting events, sometimes you need to force your opponent to finish the job. By GG'ing so early in game 2 Idra let Jinro off the hook from having to actually earn the win and overcome his nerves. You could say he was likely to lose anyways, but the fact remains that the situation was extremely high pressure and Jinro would have had to still step up and win that game.
Pressure of the moment changes things alot.... watch any sport... free throws at the end of the game, field goals from short distance, tennis pro's double faulting on match point..... it happens all the time in every form of sport.
Jinro's shown he can be affected by the pressure, but instead of having to overcome that and work to get his first win in the series, Idra just gave it to him.
Did you see the look of relief on Jinro's face when Idra gg'd out? The smart move would have been to make Jinro work hard to every scrap... give him NOTHING! Make him beat the pressure.
This is actually really interesting. I understand IdrA's point of view completely about not wanting to stress himself, but what if he plays with the mindset of just trying to stall the game. Yes, he will still probably lose, but if he just thinks to play with the purpose of stressing his opponent out, regardless of win or loss, I think it would be more beneficial. Maybe in practice he shouldn't do this, but in an important match...why not? Hell, he might even snag some wins because his opponent might mess up. The only thing that will suck is physical fatigue, but I don't know how much that affects him.
On January 20 2011 04:49 dsousa wrote: <3 Idra.... but
In competition, or sporting events, sometimes you need to force your opponent to finish the job. By GG'ing so early in game 2 Idra let Jinro off the hook from having to actually earn the win and overcome his nerves. You could say he was likely to lose anyways, but the fact remains that the situation was extremely high pressure and Jinro would have had to still step up and win that game.
Pressure of the moment changes things alot.... watch any sport... free throws at the end of the game, field goals from short distance, tennis pro's double faulting on match point..... it happens all the time in every form of sport.
Jinro's shown he can be affected by the pressure, but instead of having to overcome that and work to get his first win in the series, Idra just gave it to him.
Did you see the look of relief on Jinro's face when Idra gg'd out? The smart move would have been to make Jinro work hard to every scrap... give him NOTHING! Make him beat the pressure.
While I agree somewhat, it's a lot more stressful playing from behind then playing in a comfortable position like Jinro was in. Idra said before in this thread that its simply very easy to get into an unwinnable situation as zerg, even with major screw ups by the terran opponent.
On January 20 2011 06:18 Whole wrote: It did throw IdrA off. If you looked at the game carefully, we was running lings around the marines spawn point exactly when it should have spawned.
No, you are still wrong. SCVs came just before the marine was out, so Idra had to engage the SCVs, which let the marine escape. There was nothing that idra could do about that.
On January 20 2011 06:18 Whole wrote: It did throw IdrA off. If you looked at the game carefully, we was running lings around the marines spawn point exactly when it should have spawned.
No, you are still wrong. SCVs came just before the marine was out, so Idra had to engage the SCVs, which let the marine escape. There was nothing that idra could do about that.
The marine was canceled which made the marine come later. If it wouldn't have been canceled, IdrA would have utilized his 100% surround on the Rax and killed it instantly. Since the marine was canceled, the first one came at a later time allowing Jinro to bring SCVs when IdrA was probably confused as fuck.
EPT
Cheering for you no matter what!
