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Personal attacks in this thread will draw a temp ban. |
On January 07 2011 07:01 darmousseh wrote:
Hi IdrA, big fan, but I have a single criticism of your play.
You leave too early while laddering. If starcraft is anything like chess, then chances are your opponent will not play perfectly. In chess, one very important skill to have is to be able to take advantage of opponent's weaknesses. If an opponent has a hung piece, take advantage. If the opponent is winning, but you think you can win by incorporating a different strategy, do it. There is absolutely no reason to leave until you are absolutely in a lost position. In chess it's very possible to tell who is ahead at any given time, but chess is a game of small advantages. It's possible to overcome a 2-3 point disadvantage simply by taking the initiative. By quitting early you are harming your chances at winning a game in a major tournament. All sports are competitive and should be played perfectly and yes you should never be satisfied until you win every game, however, almost equally important is a competitive spirit. Joe Montana wouldn't be a known person today if he gave up in a losing situation. In fact, overcoming adversity is something we strive for. If you still have a fighting shot, take it, learn from it. Learn ways to come back from a disadvantage. I know you think playing at a disadvantage is a waste of time, but if you have 1% more wins, then it is worth it. That 1 win could mean the difference between winning the GSL. If you are a true competitor I wish for you to take every win you can get and by that I don't mean incorporating bad strategies like 6pool into your play, i mean like, you've lose your 3rd expansion and protoss also has 3. That is a situation where you give up almost 100% of the time. If anything, the game you should have won with the base you didn't scout should be the perfect example. Take a risk. Risky behaviour in a losing position is significantly better than playing from behind. If you can sneak an expansion or go for an unusual tech (like burrow or fast broodlords or nydus) you can come from behind. Expect your opponent to play perfect, but also expect them to make mistakes.
a) he will probably not read/reply/care to your post
b) he allready stated that he only leaves if he thinks it's absolutely over, if he thinks he can win he stays
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On January 07 2011 07:08 Woony wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2011 07:01 darmousseh wrote:
Hi IdrA, big fan, but I have a single criticism of your play.
You leave too early while laddering. If starcraft is anything like chess, then chances are your opponent will not play perfectly. In chess, one very important skill to have is to be able to take advantage of opponent's weaknesses. If an opponent has a hung piece, take advantage. If the opponent is winning, but you think you can win by incorporating a different strategy, do it. There is absolutely no reason to leave until you are absolutely in a lost position. In chess it's very possible to tell who is ahead at any given time, but chess is a game of small advantages. It's possible to overcome a 2-3 point disadvantage simply by taking the initiative. By quitting early you are harming your chances at winning a game in a major tournament. All sports are competitive and should be played perfectly and yes you should never be satisfied until you win every game, however, almost equally important is a competitive spirit. Joe Montana wouldn't be a known person today if he gave up in a losing situation. In fact, overcoming adversity is something we strive for. If you still have a fighting shot, take it, learn from it. Learn ways to come back from a disadvantage. I know you think playing at a disadvantage is a waste of time, but if you have 1% more wins, then it is worth it. That 1 win could mean the difference between winning the GSL. If you are a true competitor I wish for you to take every win you can get and by that I don't mean incorporating bad strategies like 6pool into your play, i mean like, you've lose your 3rd expansion and protoss also has 3. That is a situation where you give up almost 100% of the time. If anything, the game you should have won with the base you didn't scout should be the perfect example. Take a risk. Risky behaviour in a losing position is significantly better than playing from behind. If you can sneak an expansion or go for an unusual tech (like burrow or fast broodlords or nydus) you can come from behind. Expect your opponent to play perfect, but also expect them to make mistakes. a) he will probably not read/reply/care to your post b) he allready stated that he only leaves if he thinks it's absolutely over, if he thinks he can win he stays
I've watched his games enough to see him leaving really early and he's mentioned a few times places where he could have stayed and relied on his opponent's mistakes but didn't want to spend the time. He does it a lot more on his stream.
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On January 07 2011 07:20 darmousseh wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2011 07:08 Woony wrote:On January 07 2011 07:01 darmousseh wrote:
Hi IdrA, big fan, but I have a single criticism of your play.
You leave too early while laddering. If starcraft is anything like chess, then chances are your opponent will not play perfectly. In chess, one very important skill to have is to be able to take advantage of opponent's weaknesses. If an opponent has a hung piece, take advantage. If the opponent is winning, but you think you can win by incorporating a different strategy, do it. There is absolutely no reason to leave until you are absolutely in a lost position. In chess it's very possible to tell who is ahead at any given time, but chess is a game of small advantages. It's possible to overcome a 2-3 point disadvantage simply by taking the initiative. By quitting early you are harming your chances at winning a game in a major tournament. All sports are competitive and should be played perfectly and yes you should never be satisfied until you win every game, however, almost equally important is a competitive spirit. Joe Montana wouldn't be a known person today if he gave up in a losing situation. In fact, overcoming adversity is something we strive for. If you still have a fighting shot, take it, learn from it. Learn ways to come back from a disadvantage. I know you think playing at a disadvantage is a waste of time, but if you have 1% more wins, then it is worth it. That 1 win could mean the difference between winning the GSL. If you are a true competitor I wish for you to take every win you can get and by that I don't mean incorporating bad strategies like 6pool into your play, i mean like, you've lose your 3rd expansion and protoss also has 3. That is a situation where you give up almost 100% of the time. If anything, the game you should have won with the base you didn't scout should be the perfect example. Take a risk. Risky behaviour in a losing position is significantly better than playing from behind. If you can sneak an expansion or go for an unusual tech (like burrow or fast broodlords or nydus) you can come from behind. Expect your opponent to play perfect, but also expect them to make mistakes. a) he will probably not read/reply/care to your post b) he allready stated that he only leaves if he thinks it's absolutely over, if he thinks he can win he stays I've watched his games enough to see him leaving really early and he's mentioned a few times places where he could have stayed and relied on his opponent's mistakes but didn't want to spend the time. He does it a lot more on his stream.
Since ladder is for learning. Getting into a position your opponent needs to make a massive mistake in order for you to win is not teaching you anything. Hence why he quits. Thus quit when you screwed up and should lose so one can try the next time to not get into that position. That is where improvement takes place.
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On January 07 2011 07:01 darmousseh wrote:
Hi IdrA, big fan, but I have a single criticism of your play.
You leave too early while laddering. If starcraft is anything like chess, then chances are your opponent will not play perfectly. In chess, one very important skill to have is to be able to take advantage of opponent's weaknesses. If an opponent has a hung piece, take advantage. If the opponent is winning, but you think you can win by incorporating a different strategy, do it. There is absolutely no reason to leave until you are absolutely in a lost position. In chess it's very possible to tell who is ahead at any given time, but chess is a game of small advantages. It's possible to overcome a 2-3 point disadvantage simply by taking the initiative. By quitting early you are harming your chances at winning a game in a major tournament. All sports are competitive and should be played perfectly and yes you should never be satisfied until you win every game, however, almost equally important is a competitive spirit. Joe Montana wouldn't be a known person today if he gave up in a losing situation. In fact, overcoming adversity is something we strive for. If you still have a fighting shot, take it, learn from it. Learn ways to come back from a disadvantage. I know you think playing at a disadvantage is a waste of time, but if you have 1% more wins, then it is worth it. That 1 win could mean the difference between winning the GSL. If you are a true competitor I wish for you to take every win you can get and by that I don't mean incorporating bad strategies like 6pool into your play, i mean like, you've lose your 3rd expansion and protoss also has 3. That is a situation where you give up almost 100% of the time. If anything, the game you should have won with the base you didn't scout should be the perfect example. Take a risk. Risky behaviour in a losing position is significantly better than playing from behind. If you can sneak an expansion or go for an unusual tech (like burrow or fast broodlords or nydus) you can come from behind. Expect your opponent to play perfect, but also expect them to make mistakes.
He could of relied on his opponent's mistakes and came back, but for what? 15 ladder points? In the GSL the opponent won't make mistakes and it becomes a complete uphill struggle.
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The feeling of coming back after a huge disadvantage is really worth the fight imo, even if it happens once in 20 games.
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I know Idra dislikes HD and Husky but what's Idra's opinion of Day9?
I'm really hoping Day9 will set up a Friendday Wednesday with him,
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On January 07 2011 08:04 Denzil wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2011 07:01 darmousseh wrote:
Hi IdrA, big fan, but I have a single criticism of your play.
You leave too early while laddering. If starcraft is anything like chess, then chances are your opponent will not play perfectly. In chess, one very important skill to have is to be able to take advantage of opponent's weaknesses. If an opponent has a hung piece, take advantage. If the opponent is winning, but you think you can win by incorporating a different strategy, do it. There is absolutely no reason to leave until you are absolutely in a lost position. In chess it's very possible to tell who is ahead at any given time, but chess is a game of small advantages. It's possible to overcome a 2-3 point disadvantage simply by taking the initiative. By quitting early you are harming your chances at winning a game in a major tournament. All sports are competitive and should be played perfectly and yes you should never be satisfied until you win every game, however, almost equally important is a competitive spirit. Joe Montana wouldn't be a known person today if he gave up in a losing situation. In fact, overcoming adversity is something we strive for. If you still have a fighting shot, take it, learn from it. Learn ways to come back from a disadvantage. I know you think playing at a disadvantage is a waste of time, but if you have 1% more wins, then it is worth it. That 1 win could mean the difference between winning the GSL. If you are a true competitor I wish for you to take every win you can get and by that I don't mean incorporating bad strategies like 6pool into your play, i mean like, you've lose your 3rd expansion and protoss also has 3. That is a situation where you give up almost 100% of the time. If anything, the game you should have won with the base you didn't scout should be the perfect example. Take a risk. Risky behaviour in a losing position is significantly better than playing from behind. If you can sneak an expansion or go for an unusual tech (like burrow or fast broodlords or nydus) you can come from behind. Expect your opponent to play perfect, but also expect them to make mistakes. He could of relied on his opponent's mistakes and came back, but for what? 15 ladder points? In the GSL the opponent won't make mistakes and it becomes a complete uphill struggle.
Have you been watching the GSL? If you think all or even a small minority of players are playing perfectly, you are sorely mistaken.
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On January 07 2011 07:20 darmousseh wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2011 07:08 Woony wrote:On January 07 2011 07:01 darmousseh wrote:
Hi IdrA, big fan, but I have a single criticism of your play.
You leave too early while laddering. If starcraft is anything like chess, then chances are your opponent will not play perfectly. In chess, one very important skill to have is to be able to take advantage of opponent's weaknesses. If an opponent has a hung piece, take advantage. If the opponent is winning, but you think you can win by incorporating a different strategy, do it. There is absolutely no reason to leave until you are absolutely in a lost position. In chess it's very possible to tell who is ahead at any given time, but chess is a game of small advantages. It's possible to overcome a 2-3 point disadvantage simply by taking the initiative. By quitting early you are harming your chances at winning a game in a major tournament. All sports are competitive and should be played perfectly and yes you should never be satisfied until you win every game, however, almost equally important is a competitive spirit. Joe Montana wouldn't be a known person today if he gave up in a losing situation. In fact, overcoming adversity is something we strive for. If you still have a fighting shot, take it, learn from it. Learn ways to come back from a disadvantage. I know you think playing at a disadvantage is a waste of time, but if you have 1% more wins, then it is worth it. That 1 win could mean the difference between winning the GSL. If you are a true competitor I wish for you to take every win you can get and by that I don't mean incorporating bad strategies like 6pool into your play, i mean like, you've lose your 3rd expansion and protoss also has 3. That is a situation where you give up almost 100% of the time. If anything, the game you should have won with the base you didn't scout should be the perfect example. Take a risk. Risky behaviour in a losing position is significantly better than playing from behind. If you can sneak an expansion or go for an unusual tech (like burrow or fast broodlords or nydus) you can come from behind. Expect your opponent to play perfect, but also expect them to make mistakes. a) he will probably not read/reply/care to your post b) he allready stated that he only leaves if he thinks it's absolutely over, if he thinks he can win he stays I've watched his games enough to see him leaving really early and he's mentioned a few times places where he could have stayed and relied on his opponent's mistakes but didn't want to spend the time. He does it a lot more on his stream.
Idra doesn't care about ladder, if I'm not mistaken. If he doesn't think a game is worth his time, he will leave and move on to the next game. In tournaments and such you see him stay in games much longer.
And honestly a lot of the other players he plays randomly laddering do the exact same thing.
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1 long stressing games drains the energy of 5 games, actually quitting in ladder games if he thinks it's lost is a good attitude towards getting more games to practice, imho.
Anyway, im really new here, and I want to be in this fanclub, been following each of IdrA's games in tournaments, and really hope witha a litle timings imporvement he can do really well in GSL through 2011.
lots of "manly hetero love" from Spain, IdrA *properly pronounced*
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Everyone else has rightly noted that leaving early on ladder doesn't really matter. But I too would like to see him stay longer in tournament games he thinks he's lost - every sports fan can think of games where the impossible has happened and a player/team that was behind has come back. Sometimes by doing something remarkable, sometimes because their opponents have made a mistake - but it happens nevertheless.
On January 07 2011 08:20 Denzil wrote:
I know Idra dislikes HD and Husky but what's Idra's opinion of Day9?
I'm really hoping Day9 will set up a Friendday Wednesday with him,
Dunno if they are actually friends but they seem to be on really good terms, so yeah, would be nice to see him in a daily.
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On January 07 2011 08:20 Denzil wrote:
I know Idra dislikes HD and Husky but what's Idra's opinion of Day9?
I'm really hoping Day9 will set up a Friendday Wednesday with him,
Idra seems to respect him for being a commentator who actually understands the game and for trying to raise the general skill level. They've always seemed friendly on SOTG.
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On January 07 2011 17:27 Robstickle wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2011 08:20 Denzil wrote:
I know Idra dislikes HD and Husky but what's Idra's opinion of Day9?
I'm really hoping Day9 will set up a Friendday Wednesday with him, Idra seems to respect him for being a commentator who actually understands the game and for trying to raise the general skill level. They've always seemed friendly on SOTG.
In people's mind, IdrA hates the entire world. I'm sure some people wouldn't believe what you said.
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I remember His Nineness stating IdrA'd already agreed to do a Friendday Wednesday? Been waiting eagerly for it since, but Day's been rather busy and all.
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new quote that i missed last week
+ Show Spoiler +On December 31 2010 11:10 IdrA wrote:Show nested quote +On December 31 2010 05:43 Liquid`HuK wrote:On December 31 2010 01:53 MorroW wrote:On December 29 2010 17:08 IdrA wrote:On December 29 2010 17:01 Beef Noodles wrote:On December 29 2010 16:21 IdrA wrote:On December 29 2010 15:44 Liquid`Ret wrote:all these theories on idra ladder are untrue...he ladders to win games...just watch his stream...it also explains why zerg isnt in top10 and why there are less of us in the top200  indeed if i think i can win i stay in the game. there are times when ive left a game and my opponent couldve made a gigantic mistake and handed me the win, but thats rare and irrelevant. its just really fucking easy to lose as zerg. Do you think that zerg is currently at a disadvantage or do you think it is a momentum race that cannot lose momentum if they want to win? I know that you don't like to respond very often, but I would like to hear your views on the current state of the zerg race (without iNcontrol telling you to shut up like on SOTG lol) zerg is fucking awful clearly weakest, least reliable options early game. any viable pressure is nearly a complete allin, besides light roach aggression which is easily nullified. both t and p have lots of ways to put game ending pressure on z early and half of them arent even close to allin, and most are unscoutable and have different counters. and the idea that z is somehow the strongest late game race is fuckin absurd. hive units are nearly useless and horribly cost inefficient unless broodlords catch them off guard. ya, you can insta remax if you're allowed to get a giant econ, but remaxing on lair units vs collosus or tank based armies hardly matters when you can trade 200/200 for a tenth of their army. if z guesses, and guessing is required if t and p dont show a ridiculously early expansion, correctly and hits drone timings perfectly then they have a mid game advantage, but its not an advantage that can be used very well. its very easy for t or p to make themselves unkillable and head for that invincible late game army. z gets to use their unit advantage to tech towards hive, which can be nullified, or to expand a bunch so they can throw away a few extra 200/200 armies before getting rolled. zerg is failing massively in just about every statistic besides gsl first places. the race is fucking awful. i honestly have no idea how so many people dont acknowledge it yet. zergs performance in the foreign scene is very nearly non existent. i think morrow has won one viking cup and otherwise 0 z wins since i won mlg dc. and a pitiful number of titles before that. to be fair u cant really make alot of statistics of the foreigner scene. i think zerg is a race that simply needs more time put into it than terran for example, doesnt make it imbalanced. just compare t and p in sc1 tosses won more in the foreigner scene aswell because we dont play as much as the koreans. talked to dimaga he has been inactive if i understood him correctly and darkforce has been busy with studies afaik like most foreigners and i well, im not good enough yet. who do you want to win in the foreigner scene? actionjesus? daboo? skruf? lol i cant make a good statement what i think about balance since i have so much to learn still but as far as my games go and games in europe i almost hear every p/t say z is imba while all zergs around me tell p is imba my point is, the level in europe is probably not high enough to draw fair statics from. but i think most of us has already agreed zerg needs more practice hours than a terran to win big tournaments always such a great manner bear^^. Although I agree with most of this I think its still a lot harder to win in some aspects as zerg compared to the other races, especially at lower levels. To early though to make such broad whine posts as many zergs have though as well. the fact that you ever win games is more than enough justification for any amount of whining
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My browsing patterns
1. Load up firefox to blank page
2. Click Team Liquid link on bookmarks toolbar
3. Click Starcraft II
4. No IdrA =(
5. f5
6. f5
7. Check IdrA's twitter
8. Check my facebook to see if IdrA accepted my friend request
9. Close firefox
I personally believe there are only 1 or 2 others who are even worth watching =(
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IdrA is by far the most entertaining player out there.
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On January 08 2011 08:52 SlapMySalami wrote:
My browsing patterns
1. Load up firefox to blank page
2. Click Team Liquid link on bookmarks toolbar
3. Click Starcraft II
4. No IdrA =(
5. f5
6. f5
7. Check IdrA's twitter
8. Check my facebook to see if IdrA accepted my friend request
9. Close firefox
I personally believe there are only 1 or 2 others who are even worth watching =(
Same.
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On January 08 2011 08:52 SlapMySalami wrote:
My browsing patterns
1. Load up firefox to blank page
2. Click Team Liquid link on bookmarks toolbar
3. Click Starcraft II
4. No IdrA =(
5. f5
6. f5
7. Check IdrA's twitter
8. Check my facebook to see if IdrA accepted my friend request
9. Close firefox
I personally believe there are only 1 or 2 others who are even worth watching =(
same here but i got chrome...and i just open chrome (my homepage is set to open 2 tabs with idra's stream and idra's twitter) then i leave it like that =[ =[ =[ =[
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On January 08 2011 08:52 SlapMySalami wrote:
My browsing patterns
1. Load up firefox to blank page
2. Click Team Liquid link on bookmarks toolbar
3. Click Starcraft II
4. No IdrA =(
5. f5
6. f5
7. Check IdrA's twitter
8. Check my facebook to see if IdrA accepted my friend request
9. Close firefox
I personally believe there are only 1 or 2 others who are even worth watching =(
ditto, my life is so dull.
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On January 08 2011 06:29 Whole wrote:new quote that i missed last week + Show Spoiler +On December 31 2010 11:10 IdrA wrote:Show nested quote +On December 31 2010 05:43 Liquid`HuK wrote:On December 31 2010 01:53 MorroW wrote:On December 29 2010 17:08 IdrA wrote:On December 29 2010 17:01 Beef Noodles wrote:On December 29 2010 16:21 IdrA wrote:On December 29 2010 15:44 Liquid`Ret wrote:all these theories on idra ladder are untrue...he ladders to win games...just watch his stream...it also explains why zerg isnt in top10 and why there are less of us in the top200 indeed if i think i can win i stay in the game. there are times when ive left a game and my opponent couldve made a gigantic mistake and handed me the win, but thats rare and irrelevant. its just really fucking easy to lose as zerg. Do you think that zerg is currently at a disadvantage or do you think it is a momentum race that cannot lose momentum if they want to win? I know that you don't like to respond very often, but I would like to hear your views on the current state of the zerg race (without iNcontrol telling you to shut up like on SOTG lol) zerg is fucking awful clearly weakest, least reliable options early game. any viable pressure is nearly a complete allin, besides light roach aggression which is easily nullified. both t and p have lots of ways to put game ending pressure on z early and half of them arent even close to allin, and most are unscoutable and have different counters. and the idea that z is somehow the strongest late game race is fuckin absurd. hive units are nearly useless and horribly cost inefficient unless broodlords catch them off guard. ya, you can insta remax if you're allowed to get a giant econ, but remaxing on lair units vs collosus or tank based armies hardly matters when you can trade 200/200 for a tenth of their army. if z guesses, and guessing is required if t and p dont show a ridiculously early expansion, correctly and hits drone timings perfectly then they have a mid game advantage, but its not an advantage that can be used very well. its very easy for t or p to make themselves unkillable and head for that invincible late game army. z gets to use their unit advantage to tech towards hive, which can be nullified, or to expand a bunch so they can throw away a few extra 200/200 armies before getting rolled. zerg is failing massively in just about every statistic besides gsl first places. the race is fucking awful. i honestly have no idea how so many people dont acknowledge it yet. zergs performance in the foreign scene is very nearly non existent. i think morrow has won one viking cup and otherwise 0 z wins since i won mlg dc. and a pitiful number of titles before that. to be fair u cant really make alot of statistics of the foreigner scene. i think zerg is a race that simply needs more time put into it than terran for example, doesnt make it imbalanced. just compare t and p in sc1 tosses won more in the foreigner scene aswell because we dont play as much as the koreans. talked to dimaga he has been inactive if i understood him correctly and darkforce has been busy with studies afaik like most foreigners and i well, im not good enough yet. who do you want to win in the foreigner scene? actionjesus? daboo? skruf? lol i cant make a good statement what i think about balance since i have so much to learn still but as far as my games go and games in europe i almost hear every p/t say z is imba while all zergs around me tell p is imba my point is, the level in europe is probably not high enough to draw fair statics from. but i think most of us has already agreed zerg needs more practice hours than a terran to win big tournaments always such a great manner bear^^. Although I agree with most of this I think its still a lot harder to win in some aspects as zerg compared to the other races, especially at lower levels. To early though to make such broad whine posts as many zergs have though as well. the fact that you ever win games is more than enough justification for any amount of whining
I watch for Idra posts just for the one-liners 
In the future though, could you please link the thread that the quote is from? Thanks.
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EPT
