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On January 11 2010 07:33 Liquid`NonY wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2010 06:40 StorkHwaiting wrote:On January 11 2010 06:38 Liquid`NonY wrote:On January 11 2010 06:32 StorkHwaiting wrote:
Lol they have antimatter technology but use explosive rockets to shoot things. It all makes sense now rofl.
Archer, you've succeeded in making the speculation in the movie look even more flimsy. GJ.
They have kinetic shields to protect a starship during interstellar travel, but they have nothing to stop wooden arrows on their helicopters.
Oh and they have superconducting magnets that are powerful enough to contain an antimatter reaction, yet they're still using projectile-based weaponry. Not railguns or any other magnet propelled technology that could like instantly tear through those giant rhinos we saw...
I feel really bad for the writer who got called in to write all this shit up. Because it's painfully obvious James Cameron just created wth he wanted, then told some poor sap to write up material to have it make sense. Which is impossible. But whoever wrote this sure did try hard and looked at a lot of NASA powerpoints.
But why would the corporation pay for better weapons than necessary? They knew how primitive the natives were when creating their security team. Their weapons should have been good enough by any reasonable reckoning. Because using explosive based weaponry weighs more and therefore costs more than magnetic based weaponry. It's cheaper to use more advanced tech when it's an exponential increase in performance/capability/energy source. There are more variables that go into cost than that. There's no way you can say one way is cheaper than the other when you have no knowledge of the economy. The relevant notion is still whether or not the weapons they had ought to have been good enough and I guess you tacitly agree that they should have been. I don't quite understand what you want from fiction anyway. If it doesn't agree with our current scientific knowledge to the greatest extent possible, then it's bad fiction? But it seems you even go beyond that and expect it to agree with scientific ideas that aren't on the level of knowledge yet, but rather just scientific guesses. Why does this matter? Fiction can choose to depart from reality at any point it wishes. Classic literature is full of unrealistic things, like dialogue or monologues so well thought out that regular human minds could not possibly utter it off the top of their heads, but we believe that these characters can do it. Authors will write characters to act in ways that they've never observed from real people. And readers of classic literature take the fiction's departures from reality in stride so that they may see what the author is trying to communicate. I think what Cameron is trying to do with Avatar is obvious and your complaints are missing the point of the piece.
You're right about regular fiction.
The thing is Avatar falls into a certain genre known as Science Fiction. One of the most important aspects of the SF genre is that things need to be internally consistent. It's considered a serious faux pas in SF to have a story break its own rules. I'm fine with an Avatar program. I'm fine with FTL travel. I'm fine with all kinds of exotic technologies.
But what doesn't make sense to me is that these kinds of elements are played out alongside plot devices like a man with a broken spine who somehow can't afford to get it fixed. Or having all this information and surveillance technology and remote control technology, yet they don't have any failsafes built into an Avatar possibly going rogue.
Avatar doesn't have to jive with what I want to see, but it should be consistent with its own rules. It doesn't make sense to me to create a society that has magnet technology far surpassing current day science, and yet people are using HE rockets like this was the Vietnam War era. The technology they showed is literally that low sophistication, other than the massive gunship, which was super cool looking but makes no sense in terms of weight/lift issues.
And there's a reason this kind of stuff is seen as bad in SF. You see it right here in this thread. There are a number of people who saw it, balked, and thought the story was bad. It's an incredibly successful film and I said several times already that I thought it was entertaining and the gfx were amazing. It obviously worked with enough of an audience to drive sales past a billion. But that doesn't somehow vanish its flaws. Just as Michael Jackson was a legend, but it doesn't mean he wasn't a very troubled man.
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On January 11 2010 07:44 StorkHwaiting wrote:
But what doesn't make sense to me is that these kinds of elements are played out alongside plot devices like a man with a broken spine who somehow can't afford to get it fixed.
See its ridiculous statements like this. This kind of stuff happens in America....like right now. Hes not making this up!
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On January 11 2010 07:48 Archerofaiur wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2010 07:44 StorkHwaiting wrote:
But what doesn't make sense to me is that these kinds of elements are played out alongside plot devices like a man with a broken spine who somehow can't afford to get it fixed. See its ridiculous statements like this. This kind of stuff happens in America....like right now. Hes not making this up!
Avatar was set in America?
If I set a story in modern day America and had a healthy, athletic male dying of the common cold would that raise any eyebrows?
Because, like, in the 12th century, people died of the cold, you know.
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On January 11 2010 07:49 StorkHwaiting wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2010 07:48 Archerofaiur wrote:On January 11 2010 07:44 StorkHwaiting wrote:
But what doesn't make sense to me is that these kinds of elements are played out alongside plot devices like a man with a broken spine who somehow can't afford to get it fixed. See its ridiculous statements like this. This kind of stuff happens in America....like right now. Hes not making this up! Avatar was set in America?
Your saying its ridiculuos (to the point of unbelievable) that a society would have health care so dependant on socio-economic status. Ive got news for you...
On January 11 2010 07:49 StorkHwaiting wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2010 07:48 Archerofaiur wrote:On January 11 2010 07:44 StorkHwaiting wrote:
But what doesn't make sense to me is that these kinds of elements are played out alongside plot devices like a man with a broken spine who somehow can't afford to get it fixed. See its ridiculous statements like this. This kind of stuff happens in America....like right now. Hes not making this up! If I set a story in modern day America and had a healthy, athletic male dying of the common cold would that raise any eyebrows? Because, like, in the 12th century, people died of the cold, you know.
How about one where the insurance wont pay for his expensive chemo medicine? Would that be fiction?
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On January 11 2010 07:51 Archerofaiur wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2010 07:49 StorkHwaiting wrote:On January 11 2010 07:48 Archerofaiur wrote:On January 11 2010 07:44 StorkHwaiting wrote:
But what doesn't make sense to me is that these kinds of elements are played out alongside plot devices like a man with a broken spine who somehow can't afford to get it fixed. See its ridiculous statements like this. This kind of stuff happens in America....like right now. Hes not making this up! Avatar was set in America? Your saying its ridiculuos (to the point of unbelievable) that a society would have health care so dependant on socio-economic status. Ive got news for you... Show nested quote +On January 11 2010 07:49 StorkHwaiting wrote:On January 11 2010 07:48 Archerofaiur wrote:On January 11 2010 07:44 StorkHwaiting wrote:
But what doesn't make sense to me is that these kinds of elements are played out alongside plot devices like a man with a broken spine who somehow can't afford to get it fixed. See its ridiculous statements like this. This kind of stuff happens in America....like right now. Hes not making this up! If I set a story in modern day America and had a healthy, athletic male dying of the common cold would that raise any eyebrows? Because, like, in the 12th century, people died of the cold, you know. How about one where the insurance wont pay for his expensive chemo medicine? Would that be fiction?
We've had this debate before. I'm not going to rehash the same points just because you're being deliberately obtuse. They have the tech to create entire bodies by splicing freaking alien DNA to humans. A spine repair is already close to realization in today's world. It's going to be far, far from cutting edge in Avatar's universe. That's not crazy speculation. That's what's shown on screen in the movie every time you see Jake's Na'vi body gallivanting across a scene.
Chemo is a stalling treatment for a disease we have no cure for. Do you see the difference?
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On January 11 2010 07:57 StorkHwaiting wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2010 07:51 Archerofaiur wrote:On January 11 2010 07:49 StorkHwaiting wrote:On January 11 2010 07:48 Archerofaiur wrote:On January 11 2010 07:44 StorkHwaiting wrote:
But what doesn't make sense to me is that these kinds of elements are played out alongside plot devices like a man with a broken spine who somehow can't afford to get it fixed. See its ridiculous statements like this. This kind of stuff happens in America....like right now. Hes not making this up! Avatar was set in America? Your saying its ridiculuos (to the point of unbelievable) that a society would have health care so dependant on socio-economic status. Ive got news for you... On January 11 2010 07:49 StorkHwaiting wrote:On January 11 2010 07:48 Archerofaiur wrote:On January 11 2010 07:44 StorkHwaiting wrote:
But what doesn't make sense to me is that these kinds of elements are played out alongside plot devices like a man with a broken spine who somehow can't afford to get it fixed. See its ridiculous statements like this. This kind of stuff happens in America....like right now. Hes not making this up! If I set a story in modern day America and had a healthy, athletic male dying of the common cold would that raise any eyebrows? Because, like, in the 12th century, people died of the cold, you know. How about one where the insurance wont pay for his expensive chemo medicine? Would that be fiction? We've had this debate before. I'm not going to rehash the same points just because you're being deliberately obtuse. They have the tech to create entire bodies by splicing freaking alien DNA to humans. A spine repair is already close to realization in today's world. It's going to be far, far from cutting edge in Avatar's universe. That's not crazy speculation. That's what's shown on screen in the movie every time you see Jake's Na'vi body gallivanting across a scene. Chemo is a stalling treatment for a disease we have no cure for. Do you see the difference?
Yah. That you dont understand that the capability for society heal someone and the economic cost for society to heal someone aren't the same thing. Your basically saying "oh they can do this so it must be cheap."
How many africans could we save from malaria? Do we. No. The reason isnt Science Fiction, its human nature.
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On January 11 2010 08:00 Archerofaiur wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2010 07:57 StorkHwaiting wrote:On January 11 2010 07:51 Archerofaiur wrote:On January 11 2010 07:49 StorkHwaiting wrote:On January 11 2010 07:48 Archerofaiur wrote:On January 11 2010 07:44 StorkHwaiting wrote:
But what doesn't make sense to me is that these kinds of elements are played out alongside plot devices like a man with a broken spine who somehow can't afford to get it fixed. See its ridiculous statements like this. This kind of stuff happens in America....like right now. Hes not making this up! Avatar was set in America? Your saying its ridiculuos (to the point of unbelievable) that a society would have health care so dependant on socio-economic status. Ive got news for you... On January 11 2010 07:49 StorkHwaiting wrote:On January 11 2010 07:48 Archerofaiur wrote:On January 11 2010 07:44 StorkHwaiting wrote:
But what doesn't make sense to me is that these kinds of elements are played out alongside plot devices like a man with a broken spine who somehow can't afford to get it fixed. See its ridiculous statements like this. This kind of stuff happens in America....like right now. Hes not making this up! If I set a story in modern day America and had a healthy, athletic male dying of the common cold would that raise any eyebrows? Because, like, in the 12th century, people died of the cold, you know. How about one where the insurance wont pay for his expensive chemo medicine? Would that be fiction? We've had this debate before. I'm not going to rehash the same points just because you're being deliberately obtuse. They have the tech to create entire bodies by splicing freaking alien DNA to humans. A spine repair is already close to realization in today's world. It's going to be far, far from cutting edge in Avatar's universe. That's not crazy speculation. That's what's shown on screen in the movie every time you see Jake's Na'vi body gallivanting across a scene. Chemo is a stalling treatment for a disease we have no cure for. Do you see the difference? Yah. That you dont understand that the capability for society heal someone and the economic cost for society to heal someone aren't the same thing. Your basically saying "oh they can do this so it must be cheap."
How much does it cost nowadays for a Pentium 1 computer?
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Where do people get the notion that spine repair is close to realization? There are so many problems/factors/unknowns (I am not talking about medical only) that it's will be a good while, aka don't bank it on it in our lifetimes.
We could cure allot of people in Africa. Do we. No.
Let me know when you find the AIDS vaccine.
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On January 11 2010 08:04 Judicator wrote:Where do people get the notion that spine repair is close to realization? There are so many problems/factors/unknowns (I am not talking about medical only) that it's will be a good while, aka don't bank it on it in our lifetimes. Let me know when you find the AIDS vaccine.
Malaria causes about 250 million cases of fever and approximately one million deaths annually.
On January 11 2010 08:03 StorkHwaiting wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2010 08:00 Archerofaiur wrote:On January 11 2010 07:57 StorkHwaiting wrote:On January 11 2010 07:51 Archerofaiur wrote:On January 11 2010 07:49 StorkHwaiting wrote:On January 11 2010 07:48 Archerofaiur wrote:On January 11 2010 07:44 StorkHwaiting wrote:
But what doesn't make sense to me is that these kinds of elements are played out alongside plot devices like a man with a broken spine who somehow can't afford to get it fixed. See its ridiculous statements like this. This kind of stuff happens in America....like right now. Hes not making this up! Avatar was set in America? Your saying its ridiculuos (to the point of unbelievable) that a society would have health care so dependant on socio-economic status. Ive got news for you... On January 11 2010 07:49 StorkHwaiting wrote:On January 11 2010 07:48 Archerofaiur wrote:On January 11 2010 07:44 StorkHwaiting wrote:
But what doesn't make sense to me is that these kinds of elements are played out alongside plot devices like a man with a broken spine who somehow can't afford to get it fixed. See its ridiculous statements like this. This kind of stuff happens in America....like right now. Hes not making this up! If I set a story in modern day America and had a healthy, athletic male dying of the common cold would that raise any eyebrows? Because, like, in the 12th century, people died of the cold, you know. How about one where the insurance wont pay for his expensive chemo medicine? Would that be fiction? We've had this debate before. I'm not going to rehash the same points just because you're being deliberately obtuse. They have the tech to create entire bodies by splicing freaking alien DNA to humans. A spine repair is already close to realization in today's world. It's going to be far, far from cutting edge in Avatar's universe. That's not crazy speculation. That's what's shown on screen in the movie every time you see Jake's Na'vi body gallivanting across a scene. Chemo is a stalling treatment for a disease we have no cure for. Do you see the difference? Yah. That you dont understand that the capability for society heal someone and the economic cost for society to heal someone aren't the same thing. Your basically saying "oh they can do this so it must be cheap." How much does it cost nowadays for a Pentium 1 computer?
How much does it cost for a clean water filter?
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On January 11 2010 08:04 Judicator wrote:Where do people get the notion that spine repair is close to realization? There are so many problems/factors/unknowns (I am not talking about medical only) that it's will be a good while, aka don't bank it on it in our lifetimes. Let me know when you find the AIDS vaccine.
It's a heckuva lot closer than cloning bodies by splicing human/alien dna though. Or anti-matter engines.
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On January 11 2010 08:06 Archerofaiur wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2010 08:04 Judicator wrote:Where do people get the notion that spine repair is close to realization? There are so many problems/factors/unknowns (I am not talking about medical only) that it's will be a good while, aka don't bank it on it in our lifetimes. We could cure allot of people in Africa. Do we. No. Let me know when you find the AIDS vaccine. Malaria causes about 250 million cases of fever and approximately one million deaths annually. Show nested quote +On January 11 2010 08:03 StorkHwaiting wrote:On January 11 2010 08:00 Archerofaiur wrote:On January 11 2010 07:57 StorkHwaiting wrote:On January 11 2010 07:51 Archerofaiur wrote:On January 11 2010 07:49 StorkHwaiting wrote:On January 11 2010 07:48 Archerofaiur wrote:On January 11 2010 07:44 StorkHwaiting wrote:
But what doesn't make sense to me is that these kinds of elements are played out alongside plot devices like a man with a broken spine who somehow can't afford to get it fixed. See its ridiculous statements like this. This kind of stuff happens in America....like right now. Hes not making this up! Avatar was set in America? Your saying its ridiculuos (to the point of unbelievable) that a society would have health care so dependant on socio-economic status. Ive got news for you... On January 11 2010 07:49 StorkHwaiting wrote:On January 11 2010 07:48 Archerofaiur wrote:On January 11 2010 07:44 StorkHwaiting wrote:
But what doesn't make sense to me is that these kinds of elements are played out alongside plot devices like a man with a broken spine who somehow can't afford to get it fixed. See its ridiculous statements like this. This kind of stuff happens in America....like right now. Hes not making this up! If I set a story in modern day America and had a healthy, athletic male dying of the common cold would that raise any eyebrows? Because, like, in the 12th century, people died of the cold, you know. How about one where the insurance wont pay for his expensive chemo medicine? Would that be fiction? We've had this debate before. I'm not going to rehash the same points just because you're being deliberately obtuse. They have the tech to create entire bodies by splicing freaking alien DNA to humans. A spine repair is already close to realization in today's world. It's going to be far, far from cutting edge in Avatar's universe. That's not crazy speculation. That's what's shown on screen in the movie every time you see Jake's Na'vi body gallivanting across a scene. Chemo is a stalling treatment for a disease we have no cure for. Do you see the difference? Yah. That you dont understand that the capability for society heal someone and the economic cost for society to heal someone aren't the same thing. Your basically saying "oh they can do this so it must be cheap." How much does it cost nowadays for a Pentium 1 computer? How much does it cost for a clean water filter?
Yo, seriously dude, are you trying to be annoying? We had this same stupid ass debate 10 pages ago. Stop rehashing the same points. You're going to get the same damn answers. What's wrong with you?
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StorkHwaiting your attacking stuff as inplausable that happens in the real world, in your very own country nonetheless.
It just touches a soft bone I have because there are so many people in America right now who have rationed healthcare because they cant afford better. And to hear someone say "oh no society would ever do that" is ignorant and insulting.
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Just because it is possible for something to be done doesn't mean it can or will be done cheaply. Especially when it is medical. There are tons of examples of this in the modern day world.
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On January 11 2010 08:20 Archerofaiur wrote:
StorkHwaiting your attacking stuff as inplausable that happens in the real world, in your very own country nonetheless. And like last time your deflecting rather than answering.
Yes, people in the United States in the military are dying of malaria and lack of clean water every single day. Your point is so cogent I was rendered speechless and unable to form an adequate reply. My only option: deflecting.
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On January 11 2010 08:23 StorkHwaiting wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2010 08:20 Archerofaiur wrote:
StorkHwaiting your attacking stuff as inplausable that happens in the real world, in your very own country nonetheless. And like last time your deflecting rather than answering. Yes, people in the United States in the military are dying of malaria and lack of clean water every single day. Your point is so cogent I was rendered speechless and unable to form an adequate reply. My only option: deflecting.
Are you familiar with the healthcare service man have gotten in the past?
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On January 11 2010 08:24 Archerofaiur wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2010 08:23 StorkHwaiting wrote:On January 11 2010 08:20 Archerofaiur wrote:
StorkHwaiting your attacking stuff as inplausable that happens in the real world, in your very own country nonetheless. And like last time your deflecting rather than answering. Yes, people in the United States in the military are dying of malaria and lack of clean water every single day. Your point is so cogent I was rendered speechless and unable to form an adequate reply. My only option: deflecting. Are you familiar with the VA?
Clean water and malaria.
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On January 11 2010 08:27 StorkHwaiting wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2010 08:24 Archerofaiur wrote:On January 11 2010 08:23 StorkHwaiting wrote:On January 11 2010 08:20 Archerofaiur wrote:
StorkHwaiting your attacking stuff as inplausable that happens in the real world, in your very own country nonetheless. And like last time your deflecting rather than answering. Yes, people in the United States in the military are dying of malaria and lack of clean water every single day. Your point is so cogent I was rendered speechless and unable to form an adequate reply. My only option: deflecting. Are you familiar with the VA? Clean water and malaria.
Your using the extreme to justify that socity will always provide for its ill no mater the cost. I used the extreme to show they wouldnt. Ive also got another question for you to answer.
How do you know Jack Sully has insurance? Furthermore how do you know that the healthcare system of Avatar is insuarance payer?
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On January 11 2010 08:29 Archerofaiur wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2010 08:27 StorkHwaiting wrote:On January 11 2010 08:24 Archerofaiur wrote:On January 11 2010 08:23 StorkHwaiting wrote:On January 11 2010 08:20 Archerofaiur wrote:
StorkHwaiting your attacking stuff as inplausable that happens in the real world, in your very own country nonetheless. And like last time your deflecting rather than answering. Yes, people in the United States in the military are dying of malaria and lack of clean water every single day. Your point is so cogent I was rendered speechless and unable to form an adequate reply. My only option: deflecting. Are you familiar with the VA? Clean water and malaria. Your using the extreme to justify that socity will always provide for its ill no mater the cost. I used the extreme to show they wouldnt.
No, clean water and malaria treatments are the comparable cost for a spinal repair in a future as technologically advanced as Avatar's.
You tried to argue that people still die from lack of clean water and malaria in today's world.
I asked you if people died of these things as citizens of the USA and in the armed forces. Jake Sully had that level of socio-economic status in his future world.
You replied with VA.
Then you tried to move the goal posts by saying you were just using an extreme.
You can't even keep track of your own debate at this point. I'm done. I'm tired of talking to you. I'm going to just avoid this thread from now on.
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Thread still going I see?
This is laughable :p
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On January 11 2010 08:33 StorkHwaiting wrote:
No, clean water and malaria treatments are the comparable cost for a spinal repair in a future as technologically advanced as Avatar's.
You tried to argue that people still die from lack of clean water and malaria in today's world.
I asked you if people died of these things as citizens of the USA and in the armed forces. Jake Sully had that level of socio-economic status in his future world.
You have no way of knowing Jake Sully's economic status. Furthermore you have no way of knowing how much a spinal repair costs. And no way of knowing how much that cost goes down in time. And no way of knowing how healthcare is provided or payed for in that society. And no idea of just how bad the economic situation is for the socity.
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EPT
