• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 21:04
CEST 03:04
KST 10:04
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Maestros of the Game: Week 1/Play-in Preview5[ASL20] Ro24 Preview Pt2: Take-Off7[ASL20] Ro24 Preview Pt1: Runway132v2 & SC: Evo Complete: Weekend Double Feature4Team Liquid Map Contest #21 - Presented by Monster Energy9
Community News
Weekly Cups (Aug 18-24): herO dethrones MaxPax6Maestros of The Game—$20k event w/ live finals in Paris36Weekly Cups (Aug 11-17): MaxPax triples again!13Weekly Cups (Aug 4-10): MaxPax wins a triple6SC2's Safe House 2 - October 18 & 195
StarCraft 2
General
#1: Maru - Greatest Players of All Time Maestros of the Game: Week 1/Play-in Preview Greatest Players of All Time: 2025 Update BoxeR's Wings Episode 2 - Fan Translation A Eulogy for the Six Pool
Tourneys
Kirktown Chat Brawl #8 - 4.6K max Tonight Maestros of The Game—$20k event w/ live finals in Paris LiuLi Cup - August 2025 Tournaments $5,000 WardiTV Summer Championship 2025 $5,100+ SEL Season 2 Championship (SC: Evo)
Strategy
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation # 488 What Goes Around Mutation # 487 Think Fast Mutation # 486 Watch the Skies Mutation # 485 Death from Below
Brood War
General
Post ASL20 Ro24 discussion. BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Easiest luckies way to get out of Asl groups BW General Discussion No Rain in ASL20?
Tourneys
Cosmonarchy Pro Showmatches [ASL20] Ro24 Group F [IPSL] CSLAN Review and CSLPRO Reimagined! [ASL20] Ro24 Group E
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Muta micro map competition Fighting Spirit mining rates [G] Mineral Boosting
Other Games
General Games
Path of Exile General RTS Discussion Thread Mechabellum Nintendo Switch Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread YouTube Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Canadian Politics Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
INnoVation Fan Club SKT1 Classic Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece [\m/] Heavy Metal Thread
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread High temperatures on bridge(s) Gtx660 graphics card replacement
TL Community
The Automated Ban List TeamLiquid Team Shirt On Sale
Blogs
hello world
radishsoup
Lemme tell you a thing o…
JoinTheRain
How Culture and Conflict Imp…
TrAiDoS
RTS Design in Hypercoven
a11
Evil Gacha Games and the…
ffswowsucks
INDEPENDIENTE LA CTM
XenOsky
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 947 users

Anime Discussion Thread - Page 3983

Forum Index > Media & Entertainment
Post a Reply
Prev 1 3981 3982 3983 3984 3985 6480 Next
If you come in here looking for "anime recommendations" then please refer to this chart before posting: Anime Recommendations (as of may 2014). We also have an IRC channel called #tladt where we all hang out. The channel is on Rizon, not QuakeNet! Feel free to check it out. TLADT discord is Discord.gg

For currently airing anime, please see Anichart.net
V0ren
Profile Joined August 2011
Netherlands233 Posts
July 15 2014 13:36 GMT
#79641
On July 15 2014 19:44 ForTehDarkseid wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 15 2014 01:50 Zergneedsfood wrote:
The fluidity of animation in Akame ga Kill's first episode is by far lazier and less inspired than Aldnoah, so I don't even know where you're going with this.

Visuals =/= only animation. Especially if you are comparing series by looking at my actual complaints about Aldnoah's visuals (mediocre backgrounds, scenery designs and general color palete), I haven't said a single bad thing about actual quality of animators' work.

And this is where creator's scale and achievements come into factor. Akame ga kill is made by White Fox, the studio which produced Steins;gate and two Jormungand, and Akame's visual quality is laaaarge improvement from the past shows and while PA Works stay closer than anyone to their style, they upgrade the arsenal of special effects techniques with almost each series made, it's seen very clearly in Glasslip. On the contrary, Aldnoah is directed by the chief director of Garden of Sinners, Fate/zero, Ga Rei and Houko Musou, and his new show does pretty poor job in artistic department compared to any of the mentioned series, we expected much more of this guy and he failed us right here.



While I would not call Aldnoah's animation work the best I have seen, it is by far a lot more impressive than that of Akame ga Kill. Aldnoah's backgrounds are the best so far this season and while some of the scenery design is a bit bland there is some really great ones too in there. As for colour palette, I find it to early to tell (It's for almost everything to early to tell really... 2 only got 2 episodes yet) with what direction they are going for. The first episodes had a lot of brighter colours while they switched to more grey tones in the second. Both were fitting for what was being shown.

I haven't watched all of Garden of Sinners and Fate/Zero has been on hold for months for me (I really should get to watching both of those though... >.>) I did watch Ga-Rei. And while I really enjoyed Ga-Rei it wasn't not because of the visuals. They looked good, Aldnoah looks better. Aldnoah's visual are of the same quality as those of Fate/Zero's first half.


On July 15 2014 19:44 ForTehDarkseid wrote:
Show nested quote +
Second of all, you have two episodes to judge this off of, which are basically as expository as it gets. Like literally...nothing has actually happened in this show. The first two episodes are essentially the biggest example of a hook that lures you in with nothing else but good visuals and that's it.

What kind of mecha show hooks its viewer by not showing titular mech for straight an hour? Bad kind of mecha show.
And there's nothing else to back of to, be it character work, storytelling or general atmosphere (even M3 Dark metal scored on that, lols). I guess people who don't care for mecha at all, doesn't slightly mind though.


Is there some written rule that the mechs need to be shown in the first episode? I know they switched up the episodes for Gundam Victory so that the mech was shown in the first episode and look in what kind of clusterfuck that resulted. Also titular mech? From what was revealed so far Aldnoah refers to the technology of some ancient martian society, not mech. I could be wrong.

So far the two episodes released managed to set up the story. Episode one gave us background on who is who and what happened before the series started. It introduced some really cool themes with the landing castles and how each is their own army, not giving a shit about their opponents but only fighting for their own glory. It's not something that hasn't been used before but it is cool. The whole moon being destroyed, while retarded, creates for a cool backdrop for later stuff.

Episode two enforced the story points brought up in the first episode, especially those regarding the superiority of the Martians. It gave us a lot of cool action and gave us some insight in the main character. (Although not much.)

On July 15 2014 19:44 ForTehDarkseid wrote:
Show nested quote +
Everything else related to the plot was pretty much as predictable as it gets, sure, but you're saying things like "character development" as if this was supposed to happen by now.

Half of presented characters are obvious plot devices (mostly girls as usual), every Maritan guy is a bloody stereotype that can be described in three words max. You tell me they are trolling viewers for good old half of the show and then magically turn on a deep characterisation and non-trivial interaction button in the end? I don't believe in miracles.

Show nested quote +
You critique the villains as boring when we've learned nothing about them.

Trust me, there is nothing to be learned at all. Cannon fodder at best.


Perhaps the bad guys will all end up as one dimensional characters, I wouldn't be surprised if most of them end up like that. Is that a bad thing? Not really, depends on the show.
As for the other characters, you don't get character development in two episodes. It is supposed to be a slow process. It is also way to early to judge if a character is just a plot device or if he or she will play a larger role in the whole story.


In the end though, it really is way to early to judge this show. We only saw 40 or so minutes of it. Two episodes that only showed up is the beginning. It has the potential to be brilliant but it can also end up like complete shit.
tonight
Profile Blog Joined November 2006
United States11130 Posts
July 15 2014 14:09 GMT
#79642
so much work to make a point that will never change another person's mind

t.t
if I come without a thing, then I come with all I need @tonightsend
RuskiPanda
Profile Joined December 2011
United States2906 Posts
July 15 2014 14:19 GMT
#79643
I mean like regardless of the stuff like character development I don't get how anyone can hold akame ga kill up over Aldnoah Zero in "visuals" and expect to be taken seriously. It's just not even remotely close if znf's comparisons didn't make it super obvious.
V0ren
Profile Joined August 2011
Netherlands233 Posts
July 15 2014 14:25 GMT
#79644
On July 15 2014 23:09 tonight wrote:
so much work to make a point that will never change another person's mind

t.t


It's more entertaining than writing job application. ._.
Numy
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
South Africa35471 Posts
July 15 2014 14:35 GMT
#79645
How can you show Katanagatari and Steins;gate visuals but no Kara no Kyoukai.
tonight
Profile Blog Joined November 2006
United States11130 Posts
July 15 2014 14:36 GMT
#79646
On July 15 2014 23:25 V0ren wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 15 2014 23:09 tonight wrote:
so much work to make a point that will never change another person's mind

t.t


It's more entertaining than writing job application. ._.


True enough.
if I come without a thing, then I come with all I need @tonightsend
Zergneedsfood
Profile Blog Joined September 2008
United States10671 Posts
July 15 2014 14:40 GMT
#79647
On July 15 2014 23:35 Numy wrote:
How can you show Katanagatari and Steins;gate visuals but no Kara no Kyoukai.


Because White Fox did not make it? The other guy was saying that AGK was a visual upgrade for White Fox, who made stuff like Katanagatari, Steins;Gate, and Jormungand.
/人◕ ‿‿ ◕人\ Make a contract with me and join TLADT | Onodera isn't actually a girl, she's just a doormat you walk over to get to the girl. - Numy 2015
KazeHydra
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Japan2788 Posts
July 15 2014 14:41 GMT
#79648
On July 15 2014 23:35 Numy wrote:
How can you show Katanagatari and Steins;gate visuals but no Kara no Kyoukai.

White Fox didn't do KnK.
"Because I know this promise that won’t disappear will turn even a cause of tears into strength. You taught me that if I can believe, there is nothing that cannot come true." - Nana Mizuki (Yakusoku) 17:36 ils kaze got me into nana 17:36 ils by his blog
Numy
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
South Africa35471 Posts
July 15 2014 14:42 GMT
#79649
Oh I see. Shouldn't get into a conversation mid way sorry . Yea that is absolute BS though. No way is AGK upgrade over what they done in the past.
goody153
Profile Blog Joined April 2013
44163 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-07-15 15:47:54
July 15 2014 15:45 GMT
#79650
Chuunibyou demo Koi ga Shitai! Ren EP 3

+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]
Too bad this won't be a love triangle if i am not mistaken .. It would have been fun. Oh well.
this is a quote
Spazer
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
Canada8031 Posts
July 15 2014 16:34 GMT
#79651
Who cares about the visual design of Akame when it's so fucking shit compared to the manga. So depressing.
Liquipedia
Ecael
Profile Joined February 2008
United States6703 Posts
July 15 2014 16:35 GMT
#79652
Spazer they pumped out another chapter of method, I forgot that was the lulzy end to vol 4.
Spazer
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
Canada8031 Posts
July 15 2014 17:02 GMT
#79653
I'll read when I get home, but I imagine there'll be ample suffering, so hopefully I can wring a couple uta-pages from it~
Liquipedia
Lapack
Profile Joined February 2011
Japan15 Posts
July 15 2014 17:31 GMT
#79654
When Gochiusa episode 13 comes? I don't wanna believe its finished
Twitter: @_Lapack Low Masters Protoss on AM Server
ragz_gt
Profile Blog Joined April 2012
9172 Posts
July 15 2014 17:43 GMT
#79655
Cannot unseen! Have to spread suffer!

+ Show Spoiler +
I'm not an otaku, I'm a specialist.
Souma
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
2nd Worst City in CA8938 Posts
July 15 2014 19:00 GMT
#79656
On July 16 2014 02:31 Lapack wrote:
When Gochiusa episode 13 comes? I don't wanna believe its finished


Gochiusa volume 1 sold pretty well, so let's hope we get a season 2. =)
Writer
Rebs
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Pakistan10726 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-07-15 19:04:18
July 15 2014 19:04 GMT
#79657
On July 15 2014 23:09 tonight wrote:
so much work to make a point that will never change another person's mind

t.t


You dont have to change someones mind to make a point
tonight
Profile Blog Joined November 2006
United States11130 Posts
July 15 2014 19:48 GMT
#79658
On July 16 2014 04:04 Rebs wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 15 2014 23:09 tonight wrote:
so much work to make a point that will never change another person's mind

t.t


You dont have to change someones mind to make a point


What if the point is that they are wrong and they don't care about the point you're trying to make?
if I come without a thing, then I come with all I need @tonightsend
Zergneedsfood
Profile Blog Joined September 2008
United States10671 Posts
July 15 2014 19:50 GMT
#79659
On July 16 2014 01:34 Spazer wrote:
Who cares about the visual design of Akame when it's so fucking shit compared to the manga. So depressing.


;___;
/人◕ ‿‿ ◕人\ Make a contract with me and join TLADT | Onodera isn't actually a girl, she's just a doormat you walk over to get to the girl. - Numy 2015
ForTehDarkseid
Profile Joined April 2013
8139 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-07-15 20:12:51
July 15 2014 20:00 GMT
#79660
+ Show Spoiler [@zergneedsfood] +
On July 15 2014 21:56 Zergneedsfood wrote:
So again you're judging the work based on the creators and not on the merits of the work itself?

That's how any entertainment medium works in a first place for most people, no need to be suprised.

Katanagatari

I'll stand out of judging this one, because I haven't watched it fully, only in AMV. In my defense, I didn't even mention it, and you ignored Jormungand example in turn.

I'm not even saying the above are superior. I'm just saying where is the "laaaaarge" improvement that you are talking about?

Your comparison are totally non-represantative in any regard, because you're using someone's else shots. Steins;Gate animation was always a little bit wonky when characters were distracted from the cental perspective, but when half of show passed the quality really plummeted down.

You can also notice subpar shading and gradients on top of that. Wake me up when AKG will fall back to that level, please.

which is silly when you notice that the backgrounds from stuff like AGK are similarly not that interesting and are just generic fantasy set pieces and just in general the backgrounds are fine.

It doesn't matter how you think generic they are, my point is they are drawn (mostly by hand, not unpolished CG 3D dump, mind you) better.

To say that the anime is somehow a tremendous upgrade from stuff like Hanasaku Iroha, Tari Tari, or even something like Angel Beats is just silly.

>2012, >2011, >2010
>2014
Ofc it's a downgrade, what are we even discussing here. Seriously, it's amount of details that matter, and it might be the exact same case as with 3d model polygons in gamedev - most people just don't give a flying duck about it, but that doesn't automatically means you can disregard the progress entirely.

And I still don't get where you think it's a "pretty poor job" in the artistic department. You're trying to compare it with KnK, which as a movie is expected to have better visual productions, Ga Rei which wasn't really that pretty, and Hourou Musuko which was a completely different style.

Artistic department usually represents the overall feel of video footage, author's message to the viewer if there is any, stylish storytelling techniques, crafted dialogues (so I could blame voice actors too, yay), action scenes and created mood, not the visual side of story.

And by the way, what backgrounds are you talking about?

All shown backgrounds can be done by experienced CG-designer in a hour, while it should at least take two hours on average for one to be considered decent. Yeah, I am a spoiled kid. Also I don't dig the perspective and ideally it should be done differently, but hey I am no art specialist, so we'll leave it on that.

Aldnoah Zero just has a darker color palette and less colors because everything was blown up

Yeah, sure. The rule of thumb is that more details, more colors, more shades, lights and gradients result in more realistic picture, not the other way around.

Also, as your comment below, please let me know if any of these remind you of old fate/zero storyboards, since 65% would mean that I'd have to have hit some at this point.

Here's some quick fate/zero shots I quickly saved, so the scenes in most cases don't match exactly and it's all the coincedences all the way anyway.

Half of the presented characters in most shows are "obvious plot devices" if we're to go by your logic.

I really dislike that kind of counter-arguement because it brings exactly nothing to the table. If you compare characters from AZero to originals they were cloned from, you should be able to tell the difference at least.

I dislike when people use "poorly written" because there's no general understanding of what it means for a show to be poorly written. What, are you commenting on the vocabulary and writing quality of what the characters are saying? Are you focused on the plot? Because again...

It can mean many things, I agree, here I meant plot and setting and general viewer approach (you don't care about show with mecha not catering to mecha fans at all, but I do. lol)

And that's your problem. I don't understand where you get the impression that there is a definitive timing window where a show has to talk about their sci-fi setting or else they've failed their sci-fi setting.

The problem of that show is that its concept is falling apart rapidly while plot progresses, so the idea to set back and relax and wait for explanations isn't really working..

Also, if you haven't gotten it by now that Aldnoah Zero is not about mechs as much as they are a means to an end, then you should probably get that.

..'cause show doesn't give me any decent mecha action to follow...

Oh the character work is bad" when there hasn't been any attempt at working on a character whatsoever. How could you possibly critique what hasn't even existed yet in a two cour?

..with characters are yet to be seen, even without the idea I'd better understand or/and sympathise to at least one...

General atmosphere? I guess that's...again...a taste issue, but I don't even understand what your complaint is. Is it just boring?

It's non-existant. I don't feel any sadness, or danger, or panic, or noble heroism, or fear - whatever, best doomday Earth could've ever had.

it seems fairly obvious that the point of the first few episodes are to hook people in before getting into to anything else more integral to the story.

You're playing devil's advocate by telling me I should've waited for more episodes and reserved my judgement before the general plot direction is shown, and I could totally agree with you on that, if only that show didn't fail me even in visual and audio aspects.The good thing is it's still divided in 2 courses, so I can come up to second one to see whether the things have changed in a positive way.

F/Z had a forty minute episode where they developed no characters, and this was a show that was centralized around the characters. Is it fair to say based on episode one, where nothing but pointless expository happened, that the show was the director's "worst work by far?"

Oh, god. Sorry, but you're wrong and I am even not a type-moon fan.

Also, nothing was visually stunning in that first episode either. I could say the same things that you could. Boring backgrounds and a bland color palette.

Whoever says Aldnoah has the same quality of backgrounds and color palette as fate/zero 1st episode, must be really biased or uncareful. Compare them yourself

My point was that you're saying your words as if anyone who is interested/a fan of sci-fi/mecha should automatically discard this work.

Yeah, I'll stand on that.

It's like if people criticize Code Geass for not having cool mechs 24/7 when the show uses them as a means to an end.

It's the exact opposite, Code Geass was criticized for having way too much fancy mechs that wasn't essential to the story.

Gunbuster didn't do show their main mechs early. We didn't get to see Gunbuster until episode 4
.
Last time I checked, Gunbuster was OVAs, not TV project, those can have different schedule.

I don't remember when we really got to see Nirvash (E7) in action, but I don't think it was that early.

That show had 50 episodes in its disposal.

Also, are you seriously commenting on the designs of the mecha for their "highly questionable military purposes?" Because it's fairly obvious that all mechs are pretty "questionable" for military purposes just by nature of them being mechs.

Eh, it's not entirely true again, and I am judging by mecha anime, not by real life standarts anyway, so I don't know what are you getting at.

Gen also hasn't written a single good anime. He's done okay, but every successful anime he's done has been successful for reasons completely irrelevant to the "writing" with the sole exception of F/Z.

>PMMM and PsychoPass have been succesfull for all other reasons than Gen's script.
That's an interesting opinion, btw.


If it gets any longer, I would die replying to that, please bear it in mind.

I think their strategy is to dumpster bad Western teams (c) uriel
Prev 1 3981 3982 3983 3984 3985 6480 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 10h 56m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
RuFF_SC2 135
SpeCial 105
Nina 10
StarCraft: Brood War
sSak 1066
Shuttle 757
NaDa 26
Dota 2
monkeys_forever14
Super Smash Bros
AZ_Axe165
amsayoshi36
Other Games
tarik_tv37775
gofns19350
summit1g9259
FrodaN8580
JimRising 420
WinterStarcraft72
ViBE61
ROOTCatZ10
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick1957
BasetradeTV37
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 14 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• davetesta101
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• masondota22287
League of Legends
• Doublelift4687
Other Games
• Scarra950
Upcoming Events
SC Evo League
10h 56m
Maestros of the Game
14h 56m
SHIN vs Creator
Astrea vs Lambo
Bunny vs SKillous
HeRoMaRinE vs TriGGeR
BSL Team Wars
17h 56m
Team Bonyth vs Team Sziky
BSL Team Wars
17h 56m
Team Dewalt vs Team Sziky
Afreeca Starleague
1d 8h
Soulkey vs BeSt
Snow vs Light
Monday Night Weeklies
1d 14h
Replay Cast
1d 22h
Sparkling Tuna Cup
2 days
PiGosaur Monday
2 days
LiuLi Cup
3 days
[ Show More ]
Replay Cast
3 days
The PondCast
4 days
RSL Revival
4 days
Maru vs SHIN
MaNa vs MaxPax
RSL Revival
5 days
Reynor vs Astrea
Classic vs sOs
BSL Team Wars
5 days
Team Bonyth vs Team Dewalt
CranKy Ducklings
6 days
RSL Revival
6 days
GuMiho vs Cham
ByuN vs TriGGeR
Cosmonarchy
6 days
TriGGeR vs YoungYakov
YoungYakov vs HonMonO
HonMonO vs TriGGeR
[BSL 2025] Weekly
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Acropolis #4 - TS1
WardiTV Summer 2025
HCC Europe

Ongoing

Copa Latinoamericana 4
BSL 20 Team Wars
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 3
BSL 21 Qualifiers
ASL Season 20
CSL Season 18: Qualifier 2
Maestros of the Game
SEL Season 2 Championship
Sisters' Call Cup
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025

Upcoming

CSL 2025 AUTUMN (S18)
LASL Season 20
2025 Chongqing Offline CUP
BSL Season 21
BSL 21 Team A
Chzzk MurlocKing SC1 vs SC2 Cup #2
EC S1
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
Skyesports Masters 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
MESA Nomadic Masters Fall
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.