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I'm sorry to interrupt this heated discussion about maturity in anime (though I'm personally very partial to Code Geass--one of my faves, I have to admit >< even if there are clichés, archetypes, and the like in there), but is there a list for summer animes?
That is, is there a picture-list sort of thing with all the summer animes on it? I'm far from being as sage as most of you guys are, though I'm far more than your typical "narutard" or bleach/one piece/popular-anime-only-watcher. Or, if there's a list floating somewhere with the new summer animes, could someone point it out?
A while back, I got really disillusioned with anime and decided only to read manga, but lately it seems that I'm wasting too much of my time during my summer, so my plan is to watch anime as a means of making sure I'm not burning time aimlessly surfing the web (and thus, I hope, be motivated and work harder/longer! :D).
On June 30 2010 00:19 Spazer wrote: I can't see Angel Beats getting a second season. Like you said, the plot is all wrapped up, and unless something stupid like "they all died again" comes into play, how are they even supposed to get together? Even some sort of Angel Beats After would be difficult to do considering the ending. I'd rather see Key work on some other production, personally. I mean, there's still one unanimated VN...
New chart just got uploaded:
'Ere you go, thank god for Cat Shit One, made searching for the chart easier :D
On July 06 2010 04:07 Ecael wrote: The anime for Monster was excellent, but if you can't get it, consider just reading the manga. The anime pretty much follows the manga exactly.
Hm, I always prefer anime over manga, so that would be my last choice to do. The good thing is that I still have some options left...will see how it turns out.
On July 06 2010 05:27 Shauni wrote:
On July 06 2010 00:12 Lucumo wrote:
On July 05 2010 23:31 Shauni wrote: I don't see what's so bad about El Cazador. It was a very refreshing traveling anime, I liked it more than Madlax. And Mahou Shoujo Ai has a lot of tentacles and silly penetration so I don't see how you can keep it at a 4.
And I don't understand how Code Geass characters are mature. They're extremely exaggerated in every possible aspect.
In any case, judging by your list there are lots of 'mature' shows with 'mature' characters which you haven't seen. Boogiepop Phantom, Aoi Bungaku Series, Casshern Sins, Monster (lol), Kino's Journey, Natsume Yuujinchou, Mushishi, Ayakashi - Japanese Classic Horror, Kemonozume and so on... But I'm a bit hesitant to recommend any of them to you since you seem to favor those silly action/plot-turn shows like Code Geass and Death Note incredibly.
Huh? There is no way you can consider this a good anime. It's just so bad. And it's not like I'm the only one who thinks so. It was voted as the most disappointing anime in 2007(it got 40% in a forum with an average age of 23.1). This definitely makes my impression more objectively. What you said about Mahou Shoujo Ai, that's no reason at all. I already said it earlier, I rate hentai and anime in the same way.
No, they aren't. They sure are unrealistic, but this doesn't make them less mature. And I already stated earlier, what "mature" means.
*sigh* Another thing I've already written earlier. Some series are hard to obtain, so I couldn't watch anime like Monster. Some anime are on my "will watch" list. MAL's list doesn't matter in that way. Anime rated 8-10 are really good, so I don't favor anime like this over anything else. If you would watch the ratings, those are special cases. Man, you are either ignorant or you want to annoy me.
/edit: I updated my "plan to watch"-list. Now, it consists of anime I will definitely watch and anime I will eventually watch(which means, that these are all the anime I recognized).
Yes obviously my ulterior motive is to annoy you. It just feels like you take yourself way too seriously. I just thought it was silly how you ascribed the word mature as means of quality.
That's mean Why do you think so? Everyone has a different sense of quality. Some people feel that fanservice, ecchi and lolicon stand for quality and for me, "mature" characters indicate good quality.
Not trying to annoy you, but I think I missed your definition of "mature" somewhere along the line. Because, if you think Code Geass is 'mature', then we must have two different definitions for the word.
It depends. Maybe your definition of "mature" is my "mature mature". I tried to explain earlier, what "mature" means and also defined the two kinds of "dumb" characters.
/edit: This definition only applies to anime/manga...but that should be obvious.
You forced me to dig through 4 pages to find your definition. "no moe, no shounen and no shoujo" Code Geass still had its share of that stuff, though. And later on, you said you wouldn't touch Ga Rei Zero, when it is a much more quality show than Geass.
On July 06 2010 04:07 Ecael wrote: The anime for Monster was excellent, but if you can't get it, consider just reading the manga. The anime pretty much follows the manga exactly.
Hm, I always prefer anime over manga, so that would be my last choice to do. The good thing is that I still have some options left...will see how it turns out.
On July 05 2010 23:31 Shauni wrote: I don't see what's so bad about El Cazador. It was a very refreshing traveling anime, I liked it more than Madlax. And Mahou Shoujo Ai has a lot of tentacles and silly penetration so I don't see how you can keep it at a 4.
And I don't understand how Code Geass characters are mature. They're extremely exaggerated in every possible aspect.
In any case, judging by your list there are lots of 'mature' shows with 'mature' characters which you haven't seen. Boogiepop Phantom, Aoi Bungaku Series, Casshern Sins, Monster (lol), Kino's Journey, Natsume Yuujinchou, Mushishi, Ayakashi - Japanese Classic Horror, Kemonozume and so on... But I'm a bit hesitant to recommend any of them to you since you seem to favor those silly action/plot-turn shows like Code Geass and Death Note incredibly.
Huh? There is no way you can consider this a good anime. It's just so bad. And it's not like I'm the only one who thinks so. It was voted as the most disappointing anime in 2007(it got 40% in a forum with an average age of 23.1). This definitely makes my impression more objectively. What you said about Mahou Shoujo Ai, that's no reason at all. I already said it earlier, I rate hentai and anime in the same way.
No, they aren't. They sure are unrealistic, but this doesn't make them less mature. And I already stated earlier, what "mature" means.
*sigh* Another thing I've already written earlier. Some series are hard to obtain, so I couldn't watch anime like Monster. Some anime are on my "will watch" list. MAL's list doesn't matter in that way. Anime rated 8-10 are really good, so I don't favor anime like this over anything else. If you would watch the ratings, those are special cases. Man, you are either ignorant or you want to annoy me.
/edit: I updated my "plan to watch"-list. Now, it consists of anime I will definitely watch and anime I will eventually watch(which means, that these are all the anime I recognized).
Yes obviously my ulterior motive is to annoy you. It just feels like you take yourself way too seriously. I just thought it was silly how you ascribed the word mature as means of quality.
That's mean Why do you think so? Everyone has a different sense of quality. Some people feel that fanservice, ecchi and lolicon stand for quality and for me, "mature" characters indicate good quality.
I have to agree with Shauni, as much as that annoys me. "Quality" doesnt work in the way you're trying to use it. In addition, paying any heed to averaged ratings on sites like MAL or ANN or whatever is a really bad idea -_-.
If you like "mature" anime with "mature" characters, whatever that means, then cool. That's not a signal of their quality. That's what you like in your anime.
In any case, I considered the characters in Code Geass to be horribly retarded most of the time, and pretty disconnected from any semblance of "maturity" I could imagine...
Hmm.. i personally enjoyed Code Geass alot but i would have to agree that its not what i would describe as Mature. Of course it has certain aspects to it that would appeal to older audiences, but overall it doesnt give me that "mature" feeling. Now animes like Kemonozume and Blue Gender are what i would classify a watch for older and mature audiences -_-. You can completely feel the difference in the atmosphere the two give out compared to Code Geass.
Code Geass was still badass and fun watch for me. Anyways im going to wait for alot more eps of Highschool of the Dead to come out before watching it. I hate the feeling of waiting for new episodes .
I liked HotD . To be honest i expected less and although i dislike echi I will still watch it . I think this would been better without so much fanservice but the manga got it too so we cant complain.
Oh and Black Lagoon OVA was really good too i wish they made a full season insttead of 5 OVA's
Still waiting for Occult Academy and Shiki from this season to get aired.
Code Geass had some of the most whiniest characters ever and delt with their problems in some of the most gimmicky ways possible partially because they were either overpowered in design or they were royalty. Only person I can consider remotely mature was CC and she fucking sat around ordering pizza most of the time.
On July 06 2010 06:41 SkelA wrote: I liked HotD . To be honest i expected less and although i dislike echi I will still watch it . I think this would been better without so much fanservice but the manga got it too so we cant complain.
Oh and Black Lagoon OVA was really good too i wish they made a full season insttead of 5 OVA's
Still waiting for Occult Academy and Shiki from this season to get aired.
Didn't they both get licensed so the fansubs probably won't be happening?
I'm indifferent about the summer eseason so far. HSotD was exactly what I expected, Ookami-san was cliche but had some decently funny parodies towards the end...Seitokai wasn't what i expected but i can't really say i liked or didn't like.
On July 06 2010 06:13 Sentenal wrote: You forced me to dig through 4 pages to find your definition. "no moe, no shounen and no shoujo" Code Geass still had its share of that stuff, though. And later on, you said you wouldn't touch Ga Rei Zero, when it is a much more quality show than Geass.
Yeah, that's that the definition, more like a result. I said it like this:
On July 05 2010 23:00 Lucumo wrote: That's why it's fine that the Code Geass characters are simply mature and not mature mature. But to find the latter....good luck. Such characters are way more uncommon. btw: Mature characters can think and act according to different situations. They say and do the right things. Dumb characters can't think by themselves and they act according to the result(which is retarded) and if you really pay attention, you can notice it.
/edit: And don't forget the other kind of dumb characters...those are simply dumb, nothing behind it(Ragnarok the Animation is good example for that -.-).
One example regarding the "act according to the result": Some moe characters say something like "ugyuu~" or "nya~", which is just retarded. The creators make them say that, so that people think that they are cute or whatever. It's just one word, but that's the most obvious example. The other ones are sentences or complete dialogues. Hm, maybe you could say it like that: The story makes the characters<--->the characters make the story. I don't know yet whether that fits my thinking, but I like it. The latter applies to moe anime.
And btw: What did Code Geass have? I didn't see any shoujo and moe...and I can't really remember shounen aspects either. Some examples would be useful.
On July 06 2010 06:16 PH wrote: I have to agree with Shauni, as much as that annoys me. "Quality" doesnt work in the way you're trying to use it. In addition, paying any heed to averaged ratings on sites like MAL or ANN or whatever is a really bad idea -_-.
If you like "mature" anime with "mature" characters, whatever that means, then cool. That's not a signal of their quality. That's what you like in your anime.
In any case, I considered the characters in Code Geass to be horribly retarded most of the time, and pretty disconnected from any semblance of "maturity" I could imagine...
Quality works for different people in a different way. I don't think there is a universal truth regarding that matter. I know, it's pretty much just the overall consensus.
Since the definition of the word quality is different, why not? And hm, if you think otherwise, please give me the clear definition of it(in regard to anime/manga). It would be fine if we talked about anything physical, but this is different.
What makes you think that? Lelouch sister was kinda meh at the end, but other than that...
On July 06 2010 06:20 Tenryu wrote: Hmm.. i personally enjoyed Code Geass alot but i would have to agree that its not what i would describe as Mature. Of course it has certain aspects to it that would appeal to older audiences, but overall it doesnt give me that "mature" feeling. Now animes like Kemonozume and Blue Gender are what i would classify a watch for older and mature audiences -_-. You can completely feel the difference in the atmosphere the two give out compared to Code Geass.
Code Geass was still badass and fun watch for me. Anyways im going to wait for alot more eps of Highschool of the Dead to come out before watching it. I hate the feeling of waiting for new episodes .
That's why I made a distinction. *sigh* Now it kind of bothers me, because it's "mature" and "mature mature". I should have used a different word. "Realistic" kind of fits the mature I'm talking about because, like "mature", it's not variable. I just shouldn't have used that word because your "mature" is my "mature mature". So much for the confusion, all the thanks to me
I think I will refer to it with "realistic" from now on, even though it's not THAT adequate and mature mature becomes mature, just as it should be. The funny thing is: If I would read it as a bystander, I would think that all the over-complicated stuff is retarded. In the end, it doesn't really help you understand it which was originally the purpose - why I did all of this.
Who knows any good anime..other than the forbidden ones up top and reborn...i cant seem to find good shooting one XO...so yeah..any suggestions would be nice :D
Yeah HSotD looks good, looking forward to the 2nd episode. I just don't know if I'll be able to restrain myself from reading the manga not to spoil myself >.<
On July 06 2010 07:16 Judicator wrote: So the original term would be something like contrived mature? Because that's what it sounds like right now.
I wish I could answer that, but I'm not a native speaker. Not even sure whether I read "contrive" before, let alone "contrived mature", sorry (That's also the reason why I normally don't write that much. In situations like this, I simply lack the ability to express myself in the perfect way.)
On July 06 2010 07:16 Judicator wrote: So the original term would be something like contrived mature? Because that's what it sounds like right now.
I wish I could answer that, but I'm not a native speaker. Not even sure whether I read "contrive" before, let alone "contrived mature", sorry (That's also the reason why I normally don't write that much. In situations like this, I simply lack the ability to express myself in the perfect way.)
Code Geass had everything from brotherly-love will tear us apart Lelouch x Suzaku - which appeals to the same audience as shoujo - to busty fanservice with Karen tits and CC ass. And to the ones who prefer more innocent characters there's Euphemia, Nunnally. There's even cute non-sense lolis like Kaguya. Even if it's a bit more subtle than stuff like TTGL when they just go all out with character exaggeration, it still doesn't leave any trace of what we normally call maturity. And I say this - even though I like Code Geass, as entertainment.
Your argument doesn't seem any better if you replace it with 'realistic' or 'believable'...
From your list, Texhnolyze is a much better example of a show that has a believable world, mature characters and a realistic progression. Even though there is a cute loli in it!
And I don't think it's good to make a generalization that 'no moe, no shounen and no shoujo' are marks of quality or maturity. A better way to phrase it would be to say that a show which moves beyond the boundaries of targeting audiences (along with its tricks and clichés) is a rare mark of quality. But I wouldn't say that Code Geass or Death Note does that at all.
On July 06 2010 07:39 Judicator wrote: Don't worry about it then.
I still did. The term doesn't seem to be used that often(google tells me so) and when, then in a more negative way. If you put that away, then, I guess, it applies to a certain degree. Tenryu already said something nice; it just feels like this or that.
On July 06 2010 07:57 Shauni wrote: Code Geass had everything from brotherly-love will tear us apart Lelouch x Suzaku - which appeals to the same audience as shoujo - to busty fanservice with Karen tits and CC ass. And to the ones who prefer more innocent characters there's Euphemia, Nunnally. There's even cute non-sense lolis like Kaguya. Even if it's a bit more subtle than stuff like TTGL when they just go all out with character exaggeration, it still doesn't leave any trace of what we normally call maturity. And I say this - even though I like Code Geass, as entertainment.
Your argument doesn't seem any better if you replace it with 'realistic' or 'believable'...
From your list, Texhnolyze is a much better example of a show that has a believable world, mature characters and a realistic progression. Even though there is a cute loli in it!
And I don't think it's good to make a generalization that 'no moe, no shounen and no shoujo' are marks of quality or maturity. A better way to phrase it would be to say that a show which moves beyond the boundaries of targeting audiences (along with its tricks and clichés) is a rare mark of quality. But I wouldn't say that Code Geass or Death Note does that at all.
The first thing...are you sure? To me, it looks more like a girl's imagination. I really don't think it was a shoujo-like relationship between those two. About Karen's breasts, that's true, I remember it -.- CC's "ass", I don't remember that at all or better said: I just didn't notice it(like the thing with the pizza). I guess you have to really like that sort of thing to notice it, as long as it's not completely obvious. More innocent characters are considered as fanservice? And it's not like people like this doesn't exist in real life. Ah, that minor character. I think it was fine for me because she didn't really have that much screen time. Most of the time she was nullified...at least I think so. It depends: I still don't get that with the more innocent characters. Euphemia was probably somewhat annoying, but they got rid of her and Nunally seemed perfectly fine. She can't see a thing and doesn't really know how cruel the world is and the acts that way. Even if she did know, she acted that way for Lelouch who just wanted to protect her. So she was forced into her role anyway and it made perfect sense. Regarding Karen and CC...apart from breasts and asses, did they act "immature"? I don't think so.
The argument doesn't change, so why would it? It's not like there is a perfect definition of it.
I know, it has both "matures" in it. I never denied it or said, that it's comparable to Code Geass.
That's why I wrote "normally", this way it's not a generalization. You could say that, but it's not really suitable for me. I have to differentiate a lot more to say what I like/dislike.
On July 06 2010 06:58 Lucumo wrote: One example regarding the "act according to the result": Some moe characters say something like "ugyuu~" or "nya~", which is just retarded. The creators make them say that, so that people think that they are cute or whatever. It's just one word, but that's the most obvious example. The other ones are sentences or complete dialogues. anime.
EPT![[image loading]](http://img687.imageshack.us/img687/5281/summer2010v2export.jpg)
