• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 06:53
CET 12:53
KST 20:53
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL22] Finals Preview: Sweet Victory!12[ASL22] Ro4 Preview: Mirror Mirror6[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: Within Reach5[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: In A Tizzy11[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Holy Diver5
Community News
[BSL23] RO16 Group Stage9Weekly Cups (Nov 2-8): herO back on top?2Weekly Cups (Oct 26 - Nov 1): MaxPax, herO, Solar win0Weekly Cups (October 19-25): Clem triples first in 5.0.175Evil Geniuses - shutting down23
StarCraft 2
General
Serral's getting trashed by New Catsle's Mind Weekly Cups (Nov 2-8): herO back on top? Liquibets sc2 season 30 No more SC2 streamers on team liquid? StarCraft open world shooter announced at BlizzCon
Tourneys
RSL goes to London! 2026 Offline Finals Nov 21-22 Tasteless Time Warp: SC Evo Showmatch (May 25) Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament iNu's Battles #22 SC4ALL: II Venue Change Announcement!
Strategy
[H] ZvP Mid-Late Game: Stalkers Collossi HT
Custom Maps
Starcraft 2 Advance [G] How to playtest arcade maps [D] the control group Simple Questions/Answers
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 551 Robotic Revival Mutation # 550 Graveyard Shift Mutation # 549 Endless Sparkles
Brood War
General
List of top players active on ShieldBattery [BSL23] RO16 Group Stage screpdb: new Starcraft reporting tool [BW] Looking for Clan Thread! [Megathread] Daily Funny Videos
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues 2v2v2v2 Tournament Stage 1: Community Poll [$1250] International ShieldBattery League Small VOD Thread 2.0
Strategy
Nuke strategy worked in K-League 2026-11-09 50,000-Word Terran Builds Memo 2026-10-22 Cliff Jump Revisited (1 in a 1000 strategy)
Other Games
General Games
Path of Exile Nintendo Switch Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread General RTS Discussion Thread ZeroSpace Early Access is Now Live!
Dota 2
Dota 2 Champions League Season 3 Begins April 25!
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread US Politics Mega-thread Trading/Investing Thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Dating: How's your luck?
Fan Clubs
Fan Club Resource Thread Reynor Fan Club The Flash Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece
Sports
Football (Soccer) Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 MLB/Baseball 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List Recent Gifted Posts
Blogs
The time I organised my…
AssyrianKing
Why I built Repalyzer (1.1.…
BlueStar
Innovate or Game Over?
TrAiDoS
ShieldBattery on Mac
Kraekkling
[ASL22] Ro4 Day1 Ticket Giv…
bITt.mAN
Can Bots Beat Pros?? Starcr…
namkraft
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 14601 users

Anime Discussion Thread - Page 2309

Forum Index > Media & Entertainment
Post a Reply
Prev 1 2307 2308 2309 2310 2311 6486 Next
If you come in here looking for "anime recommendations" then please refer to this chart before posting: Anime Recommendations (as of may 2014). We also have an IRC channel called #tladt where we all hang out. The channel is on Rizon, not QuakeNet! Feel free to check it out. TLADT discord is Discord.gg

For currently airing anime, please see Anichart.net
ragz_gt
Profile Blog Joined April 2012
9172 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-09-04 21:09:33
September 04 2012 21:06 GMT
#46161
On September 05 2012 05:54 Zergneedsfood wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 05 2012 05:43 ragz_gt wrote:
I don't get the fascination with character development. I watch a ton of anime, read a ton of manga/novel, but I also read a ton of books, both fiction and non fiction. What I'm interested is what happened, why and how it happened, what is the result and greater consequences, backstory and motivation, cause and affect, action and reaction, relationship and interaction etc. Not that I don't care about character development but it is mighty low on the priority list.


Well if a character is boring, why should I care? If you say you should just care about the story, then why is the story being told from the angle of a detestable/retarded/boring person?


It's like reading true crime books, they are usually told from the angle of a detestable person who surprisingly often are retarded / boring. Doesn't really make the book less fascinating. Also, don't care about character development is not the same as don't care about characters. I like kick arse characters as much as next person, I just prefer them come that way rather than "level up" during the story.

Don't know if you watched ESPN's 30 for 30. Most of them have little or no character development (and a few that focuses on it), they just have awesome characters doing awesome stuff. Or focus on a singular event.

Character development does play a bigger role in anime, due to series cover greater length of time. But I always gravitate to characters that never changes, even when end up crashing and burning, anyway.
I'm not an otaku, I'm a specialist.
Chiharu Harukaze
Profile Joined September 2011
12112 Posts
September 04 2012 21:13 GMT
#46162
On September 05 2012 06:06 ragz_gt wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 05 2012 05:54 Zergneedsfood wrote:
On September 05 2012 05:43 ragz_gt wrote:
I don't get the fascination with character development. I watch a ton of anime, read a ton of manga/novel, but I also read a ton of books, both fiction and non fiction. What I'm interested is what happened, why and how it happened, what is the result and greater consequences, backstory and motivation, cause and affect, action and reaction, relationship and interaction etc. Not that I don't care about character development but it is mighty low on the priority list.


Well if a character is boring, why should I care? If you say you should just care about the story, then why is the story being told from the angle of a detestable/retarded/boring person?

It's like reading true crime books, they are usually told from the angle of a detestable person who surprisingly often are retarded / boring. Doesn't really make the book less fascinating. Also, don't care about character development is not the same as don't care about characters. I like kick arse characters as much as next person, I just prefer them come that way rather than "level up" during the story.

Don't know if you watched ESPN's 30 for 30. Most of them have little or no character development (and a few that focuses on it), they just have awesome characters doing awesome stuff. Or focus on a singular event.

Character development does play a bigger role in anime, due to series cover greater length of time. But I always gravitate to characters that never changes, even when end up crashing and burning, anyway.

For action and drama pieces, I'm sure that would apply. But it really depends on the genre. For a romance or a slice of life, if you don't have strong character development to form an emotion connection with the viewer, your series will be pretty boring. And even in more action orientated series, character development is still important. In Gundam SEED and Wing for exampple, the development of the characters and how they mature plays a big part in why the events have such a strong impact on the viewer. At least, that's how I see it.
It's like, "Is the Federation's Mobile Suit some kind of monster?"
Requizen
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States33802 Posts
September 04 2012 21:16 GMT
#46163
On September 05 2012 06:06 ragz_gt wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 05 2012 05:54 Zergneedsfood wrote:
On September 05 2012 05:43 ragz_gt wrote:
I don't get the fascination with character development. I watch a ton of anime, read a ton of manga/novel, but I also read a ton of books, both fiction and non fiction. What I'm interested is what happened, why and how it happened, what is the result and greater consequences, backstory and motivation, cause and affect, action and reaction, relationship and interaction etc. Not that I don't care about character development but it is mighty low on the priority list.


Well if a character is boring, why should I care? If you say you should just care about the story, then why is the story being told from the angle of a detestable/retarded/boring person?


It's like reading true crime books, they are usually told from the angle of a detestable person who surprisingly often are retarded / boring. Doesn't really make the book less fascinating. Also, don't care about character development is not the same as don't care about characters. I like kick arse characters as much as next person, I just prefer them come that way rather than "level up" during the story.

Don't know if you watched ESPN's 30 for 30. Most of them have little or no character development (and a few that focuses on it), they just have awesome characters doing awesome stuff. Or focus on a singular event.

Character development does play a bigger role in anime, due to series cover greater length of time. But I always gravitate to characters that never changes, even when end up crashing and burning, anyway.

Eh, isn't that boring though?

Well, let me take a step back. Characters that don't change are perfect for episodic stuff. Spike barely changes through Bebop, but that's ok because that's the way the show works.

Something like, say, Negima, would be really rather odd/dumb, imo, if Negi started out as a superb badass who puched lightning and ate magical darkness. He grows into that, and it moves the story along.

Mecha series in particular, I feel, would be boring if the characters never changed. Hell, could you imagine how different TTGL would be if Simon didn't change from beginning to time skip? I mean, past that point there wasn't much change, but he's basically a different person at the end. Gundam series too, as much as I rag on SEED, if none of the characters changed it would go from "not my favorite but good" to "why the fuck am I watching this shit".
It's your boy Guzma!
Zergneedsfood
Profile Blog Joined September 2008
United States10671 Posts
September 04 2012 21:21 GMT
#46164
On September 05 2012 06:06 ragz_gt wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 05 2012 05:54 Zergneedsfood wrote:
On September 05 2012 05:43 ragz_gt wrote:
I don't get the fascination with character development. I watch a ton of anime, read a ton of manga/novel, but I also read a ton of books, both fiction and non fiction. What I'm interested is what happened, why and how it happened, what is the result and greater consequences, backstory and motivation, cause and affect, action and reaction, relationship and interaction etc. Not that I don't care about character development but it is mighty low on the priority list.


Well if a character is boring, why should I care? If you say you should just care about the story, then why is the story being told from the angle of a detestable/retarded/boring person?


It's like reading true crime books, they are usually told from the angle of a detestable person who surprisingly often are retarded / boring. Doesn't really make the book less fascinating. Also, don't care about character development is not the same as don't care about characters. I like kick arse characters as much as next person, I just prefer them come that way rather than "level up" during the story.

Don't know if you watched ESPN's 30 for 30. Most of them have little or no character development (and a few that focuses on it), they just have awesome characters doing awesome stuff. Or focus on a singular event.

Character development does play a bigger role in anime, due to series cover greater length of time. But I always gravitate to characters that never changes, even when end up crashing and burning, anyway.


I don't doubt this happens, but it's not like a TON of anime have a bunch of stunning plots that don't need good characters.

Also, I don't know about other people, but you characterizing development as just "level up" in your post seems to tell me that you watch more shounen shows than a lot of other anime genres.
/人◕ ‿‿ ◕人\ Make a contract with me and join TLADT | Onodera isn't actually a girl, she's just a doormat you walk over to get to the girl. - Numy 2015
biology]major
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States2253 Posts
September 04 2012 21:25 GMT
#46165
On September 05 2012 06:06 ragz_gt wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 05 2012 05:54 Zergneedsfood wrote:
On September 05 2012 05:43 ragz_gt wrote:
I don't get the fascination with character development. I watch a ton of anime, read a ton of manga/novel, but I also read a ton of books, both fiction and non fiction. What I'm interested is what happened, why and how it happened, what is the result and greater consequences, backstory and motivation, cause and affect, action and reaction, relationship and interaction etc. Not that I don't care about character development but it is mighty low on the priority list.


Well if a character is boring, why should I care? If you say you should just care about the story, then why is the story being told from the angle of a detestable/retarded/boring person?


It's like reading true crime books, they are usually told from the angle of a detestable person who surprisingly often are retarded / boring. Doesn't really make the book less fascinating.

Don't know if you watched ESPN's 30 for 30. Most of them have little or no character development (and a few that focuses on it), they just have awesome characters doing awesome stuff. Or focus on a singular event.

Character development does play a bigger role in anime, due to series cover greater length of time. But I always gravitate to characters that never changes, even when end up crashing and burning, anyway.



character development is a kinda everything if you want any form of critical acclaim in story telling whether it be anime, movies or books. Characters that don't change are uninteresting, and unrealistic (can't empathize with them). It is kind of a baseline, characters develop each other and are also developed by the environment. You can give me the coolest most likable character at the start, but if he/she does not change, and they are randomly killed half way within the story I am not going to care in the slightest.

Of course a genre like comedy can break these normal rules because they are not trying to be serious and can parody the idea of character development itself. Maybe it's just how I see it but that is the most critical factor for me to give critical recognition to a work. Of course you can still enjoy a show like SAO for example, literally has no development in any of the characters except for some romance which is just some cheap attention whoring) but it won't ever be "good"(unless it radically changes in the upcoming episodes)
Question.?
Maxie
Profile Joined August 2010
Sweden2653 Posts
September 04 2012 21:43 GMT
#46166
Just finished watching Dantalian no Shoka. It was... decent. I'm not a fan of when it's basically one story per episode, which there was a bit too much of in this anime. The episodes that actually were connected to each other decently (Flamberge ep + last 2) were fairly good, though. But needs more Flamberge and the wannabe Nanoha dude (that stance + weapon + "cartridge load", if that's not an obvious Nanoha reference i don't know what is...). Also a very unfinished ending, I wouldn't mind a second season as long as they actually connect the episodes to each other more.

I have to admit that I started watching it because it's Inaban/Kanbaru/Celty's VA voicing a loli tsundere which in my mind was an impossibility. I wasn't disappointed there at least. My guilty pleasure these days are loli tsunderes that aren't voiced by Rie, lmfao.
Spazer
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
Canada8036 Posts
September 04 2012 21:48 GMT
#46167
On September 05 2012 06:43 Maxie wrote:
Just finished watching Dantalian no Shoka. It was... decent. I'm not a fan of when it's basically one story per episode, which there was a bit too much of in this anime. The episodes that actually were connected to each other decently (Flamberge ep + last 2) were fairly good, though. But needs more Flamberge and the wannabe Nanoha dude (that stance + weapon + "cartridge load", if that's not an obvious Nanoha reference i don't know what is...). Also a very unfinished ending, I wouldn't mind a second season as long as they actually connect the episodes to each other more.

I have to admit that I started watching it because it's Inaban/Kanbaru/Celty's VA voicing a loli tsundere which in my mind was an impossibility. I wasn't disappointed there at least. My guilty pleasure these days are loli tsunderes that aren't voiced by Rie, lmfao.

Pretty sure a second season is impossible with their sales.
Liquipedia
Shauni
Profile Blog Joined July 2004
4077 Posts
September 04 2012 21:52 GMT
#46168
Inspiring? Succeeding? Rising after a challenge? Why should entertainment only cover that side of the coin? Your whole definition of enjoyment is skewed. Pathetic things can't bring enjoyment to you? Tragedy? What about someone failing to meet up to the expectations? Why would it be wrong to depict that? Why does the media have to cater to your typical "feelgood" scenarios in order to become meaningful?
I kind of agree with Requizen in this aspect, I don't see why media has to portray life in one simplistic way, there is so much variance in life and most of it doesn't even attempt to portray it accurately, instead just relying on simple storytelling mechanisms which was often made in regard to children's perception of reality.

For example, I watched a movie yesterday. It was about a woman laying on her deathbed in cancer, with her two sisters being unable to comfort her or be by her side, not wanting to touch a woman with disease, coping with the situation by sending in their servant in their stead. And the two sisters kept fighting, being unable to understand one another, even after the third sister died.
There were no "likable" characters, no fulfillment or conclusion reached. It was enervating and painful to listen to the regrets of her life and hate toward her deceiving sisters from the cancer ridden woman. It's very absurd to think that the woman should have died gracefully with some sweet last words just to make it more pleasurable for the viewers. It was painful, not enjoyable at all. I enjoyed the movie.

Ultimately, I feel that it's a misconception of the definition of enjoyment (in most of the entertainment industry, not just with anime).
The two main definitions are to me very different:

1. the act or condition of receiving pleasure from something
2. the use or possession of something that is satisfying or beneficial

Enjoyment in media does not have any relation to whether or not you like a character unless you define by (1). Enjoyment can be felt in any spectrum of emotions, even numbness or other lack of emotion. When you typically talk about the definition of enjoyment in media and art, it's vastly different from the (1) definition. The enjoyment lies in the intent of conveying, not simply the "end" emotion by the viewer. The idea of what you view bringing something new and stimulating to your mind, benefiting from the added experience and perception.

Also... in classic storytelling it's important to have characters that you comprehend, empathize with and sometimes even relate to. I understand that. But it's a giant leap from that to your "like" and "hate". Anime is a bit different from most media in this regard, because the viewers typically prefer to relate to the characters in a simple and pleasurable way. It's quite shallow since, as you say, the likable characters are rarely even remotely realistic portrayals of human beings. It's like taking merely a few (from millions) pleasurable traits, reactions, actions, emotions of a person and stuffing it into an anime character, creating something disgusting like Azunyan...
I'm taking whatever coverage I can get, because frankly, I'm busy working on this million dollar deal at my job. Early retirement is a good thing brotha man. - MessengerASL
ragz_gt
Profile Blog Joined April 2012
9172 Posts
September 04 2012 22:02 GMT
#46169
On September 05 2012 06:21 Zergneedsfood wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 05 2012 06:06 ragz_gt wrote:
On September 05 2012 05:54 Zergneedsfood wrote:
On September 05 2012 05:43 ragz_gt wrote:
I don't get the fascination with character development. I watch a ton of anime, read a ton of manga/novel, but I also read a ton of books, both fiction and non fiction. What I'm interested is what happened, why and how it happened, what is the result and greater consequences, backstory and motivation, cause and affect, action and reaction, relationship and interaction etc. Not that I don't care about character development but it is mighty low on the priority list.


Well if a character is boring, why should I care? If you say you should just care about the story, then why is the story being told from the angle of a detestable/retarded/boring person?


It's like reading true crime books, they are usually told from the angle of a detestable person who surprisingly often are retarded / boring. Doesn't really make the book less fascinating. Also, don't care about character development is not the same as don't care about characters. I like kick arse characters as much as next person, I just prefer them come that way rather than "level up" during the story.

Don't know if you watched ESPN's 30 for 30. Most of them have little or no character development (and a few that focuses on it), they just have awesome characters doing awesome stuff. Or focus on a singular event.

Character development does play a bigger role in anime, due to series cover greater length of time. But I always gravitate to characters that never changes, even when end up crashing and burning, anyway.


I don't doubt this happens, but it's not like a TON of anime have a bunch of stunning plots that don't need good characters.

Also, I don't know about other people, but you characterizing development as just "level up" in your post seems to tell me that you watch more shounen shows than a lot of other anime genres.


Actually I don't watch alot shounen shows at all, mainly because it's how MC gets more powerful overtime.

On September 05 2012 06:25 biology]major wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 05 2012 06:06 ragz_gt wrote:
On September 05 2012 05:54 Zergneedsfood wrote:
On September 05 2012 05:43 ragz_gt wrote:
I don't get the fascination with character development. I watch a ton of anime, read a ton of manga/novel, but I also read a ton of books, both fiction and non fiction. What I'm interested is what happened, why and how it happened, what is the result and greater consequences, backstory and motivation, cause and affect, action and reaction, relationship and interaction etc. Not that I don't care about character development but it is mighty low on the priority list.


Well if a character is boring, why should I care? If you say you should just care about the story, then why is the story being told from the angle of a detestable/retarded/boring person?


It's like reading true crime books, they are usually told from the angle of a detestable person who surprisingly often are retarded / boring. Doesn't really make the book less fascinating.

Don't know if you watched ESPN's 30 for 30. Most of them have little or no character development (and a few that focuses on it), they just have awesome characters doing awesome stuff. Or focus on a singular event.

Character development does play a bigger role in anime, due to series cover greater length of time. But I always gravitate to characters that never changes, even when end up crashing and burning, anyway.



character development is a kinda everything if you want any form of critical acclaim in story telling whether it be anime, movies or books. Characters that don't change are uninteresting, and unrealistic (can't empathize with them). It is kind of a baseline, characters develop each other and are also developed by the environment. You can give me the coolest most likable character at the start, but if he/she does not change, and they are randomly killed half way within the story I am not going to care in the slightest.

Of course a genre like comedy can break these normal rules because they are not trying to be serious and can parody the idea of character development itself. Maybe it's just how I see it but that is the most critical factor for me to give critical recognition to a work. Of course you can still enjoy a show like SAO for example, literally has no development in any of the characters except for some romance which is just some cheap attention whoring) but it won't ever be "good"(unless it radically changes in the upcoming episodes)


I don't know... Shawshank Redemption, Forest Gump, don't get much more acclaimed than that, and they are both about stories where MC live through turbulence while changing little themselves, like eyes of the storm kind of way. Or books like Hunt for Red October, or most of the Stephen King novels. The events and characters involved are fascinating, but not alot of growth there.
I'm not an otaku, I'm a specialist.
Requizen
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States33802 Posts
September 04 2012 22:11 GMT
#46170
On September 05 2012 07:02 ragz_gt wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 05 2012 06:21 Zergneedsfood wrote:
On September 05 2012 06:06 ragz_gt wrote:
On September 05 2012 05:54 Zergneedsfood wrote:
On September 05 2012 05:43 ragz_gt wrote:
I don't get the fascination with character development. I watch a ton of anime, read a ton of manga/novel, but I also read a ton of books, both fiction and non fiction. What I'm interested is what happened, why and how it happened, what is the result and greater consequences, backstory and motivation, cause and affect, action and reaction, relationship and interaction etc. Not that I don't care about character development but it is mighty low on the priority list.


Well if a character is boring, why should I care? If you say you should just care about the story, then why is the story being told from the angle of a detestable/retarded/boring person?


It's like reading true crime books, they are usually told from the angle of a detestable person who surprisingly often are retarded / boring. Doesn't really make the book less fascinating. Also, don't care about character development is not the same as don't care about characters. I like kick arse characters as much as next person, I just prefer them come that way rather than "level up" during the story.

Don't know if you watched ESPN's 30 for 30. Most of them have little or no character development (and a few that focuses on it), they just have awesome characters doing awesome stuff. Or focus on a singular event.

Character development does play a bigger role in anime, due to series cover greater length of time. But I always gravitate to characters that never changes, even when end up crashing and burning, anyway.


I don't doubt this happens, but it's not like a TON of anime have a bunch of stunning plots that don't need good characters.

Also, I don't know about other people, but you characterizing development as just "level up" in your post seems to tell me that you watch more shounen shows than a lot of other anime genres.


Actually I don't watch alot shounen shows at all, mainly because it's how MC gets more powerful overtime.

Show nested quote +
On September 05 2012 06:25 biology]major wrote:
On September 05 2012 06:06 ragz_gt wrote:
On September 05 2012 05:54 Zergneedsfood wrote:
On September 05 2012 05:43 ragz_gt wrote:
I don't get the fascination with character development. I watch a ton of anime, read a ton of manga/novel, but I also read a ton of books, both fiction and non fiction. What I'm interested is what happened, why and how it happened, what is the result and greater consequences, backstory and motivation, cause and affect, action and reaction, relationship and interaction etc. Not that I don't care about character development but it is mighty low on the priority list.


Well if a character is boring, why should I care? If you say you should just care about the story, then why is the story being told from the angle of a detestable/retarded/boring person?


It's like reading true crime books, they are usually told from the angle of a detestable person who surprisingly often are retarded / boring. Doesn't really make the book less fascinating.

Don't know if you watched ESPN's 30 for 30. Most of them have little or no character development (and a few that focuses on it), they just have awesome characters doing awesome stuff. Or focus on a singular event.

Character development does play a bigger role in anime, due to series cover greater length of time. But I always gravitate to characters that never changes, even when end up crashing and burning, anyway.



character development is a kinda everything if you want any form of critical acclaim in story telling whether it be anime, movies or books. Characters that don't change are uninteresting, and unrealistic (can't empathize with them). It is kind of a baseline, characters develop each other and are also developed by the environment. You can give me the coolest most likable character at the start, but if he/she does not change, and they are randomly killed half way within the story I am not going to care in the slightest.

Of course a genre like comedy can break these normal rules because they are not trying to be serious and can parody the idea of character development itself. Maybe it's just how I see it but that is the most critical factor for me to give critical recognition to a work. Of course you can still enjoy a show like SAO for example, literally has no development in any of the characters except for some romance which is just some cheap attention whoring) but it won't ever be "good"(unless it radically changes in the upcoming episodes)


I don't know... Shawshank Redemption, Forest Gump, don't get much more acclaimed than that, and they are both about stories where MC live through turbulence while changing little themselves, like eyes of the storm kind of way. Or books like Hunt for Red October, or most of the Stephen King novels. The events and characters involved are fascinating, but not alot of growth there.

Wait, there's no character development in Shawshank? That's, uh, an interesting viewpoint.

Forrest Gump, sure, because of how his character is. But if you think none of the other characters change and are changed by Forrest, you probably didn't watch the same movie as me.

Steven King is kind of a wash because Suspense/Horror doesn't give a lot of room for character development. That genre in and of itself is kind of inflexible, though I'm sure someone can think of a couple good examples.

This is all off topic, of course. In a long running (or even regular length) anime or manga series, there is plenty of time and room for growth. In fact, if there isn't any change through a 2+ season anime, I'd get disenchanted with it very quickly.
It's your boy Guzma!
Sentenal
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
United States12398 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-09-04 22:37:15
September 04 2012 22:32 GMT
#46171
On September 05 2012 06:52 Shauni wrote:
Inspiring? Succeeding? Rising after a challenge? Why should entertainment only cover that side of the coin? Your whole definition of enjoyment is skewed. Pathetic things can't bring enjoyment to you? Tragedy? What about someone failing to meet up to the expectations? Why would it be wrong to depict that? Why does the media have to cater to your typical "feelgood" scenarios in order to become meaningful?
I kind of agree with Requizen in this aspect, I don't see why media has to portray life in one simplistic way, there is so much variance in life and most of it doesn't even attempt to portray it accurately, instead just relying on simple storytelling mechanisms which was often made in regard to children's perception of reality.

For example, I watched a movie yesterday. It was about a woman laying on her deathbed in cancer, with her two sisters being unable to comfort her or be by her side, not wanting to touch a woman with disease, coping with the situation by sending in their servant in their stead. And the two sisters kept fighting, being unable to understand one another, even after the third sister died.
There were no "likable" characters, no fulfillment or conclusion reached. It was enervating and painful to listen to the regrets of her life and hate toward her deceiving sisters from the cancer ridden woman. It's very absurd to think that the woman should have died gracefully with some sweet last words just to make it more pleasurable for the viewers. It was painful, not enjoyable at all. I enjoyed the movie.

Ultimately, I feel that it's a misconception of the definition of enjoyment (in most of the entertainment industry, not just with anime).
The two main definitions are to me very different:

1. the act or condition of receiving pleasure from something
2. the use or possession of something that is satisfying or beneficial

Enjoyment in media does not have any relation to whether or not you like a character unless you define by (1). Enjoyment can be felt in any spectrum of emotions, even numbness or other lack of emotion. When you typically talk about the definition of enjoyment in media and art, it's vastly different from the (1) definition. The enjoyment lies in the intent of conveying, not simply the "end" emotion by the viewer. The idea of what you view bringing something new and stimulating to your mind, benefiting from the added experience and perception.

Also... in classic storytelling it's important to have characters that you comprehend, empathize with and sometimes even relate to. I understand that. But it's a giant leap from that to your "like" and "hate". Anime is a bit different from most media in this regard, because the viewers typically prefer to relate to the characters in a simple and pleasurable way. It's quite shallow since, as you say, the likable characters are rarely even remotely realistic portrayals of human beings. It's like taking merely a few (from millions) pleasurable traits, reactions, actions, emotions of a person and stuffing it into an anime character, creating something disgusting like Azunyan...

So why is it wrong to define 'enjoyment' with the first definition, rather than the 2nd? Why can't it be a mix of both definitions?
"Apparently, Sentenal is a paragon of friendship and tolerance. " - Ech0ne
Tabbris
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
Bangladesh2839 Posts
September 04 2012 22:43 GMT
#46172
Hmm I was baiting Sent to tell my why he didnt like eva cause I honestly had no idea and was curious. Didnt mean for a backlash like that it was just a talking point. Ill just end it with this. Sent did you like the Rebuild series? It seems like the major problems you had with eva is addressed in the movies
Sentenal
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
United States12398 Posts
September 04 2012 22:47 GMT
#46173
On September 05 2012 07:43 Tabbris wrote:
Hmm I was baiting Sent to tell my why he didnt like eva cause I honestly had no idea and was curious. Didnt mean for a backlash like that it was just a talking point. Ill just end it with this. Sent did you like the Rebuild series? It seems like the major problems you had with eva is addressed in the movies

Rebuild is better, IMO. With Rebuild, I'm pretty sure most people who liked the series, thinks Rebuild is worse, and visa versa. Like, I liked Mari, but I can see how someone who liked the Evangelion tv series would see her inclusion as an abomination.
"Apparently, Sentenal is a paragon of friendship and tolerance. " - Ech0ne
Souma
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
2nd Worst City in CA8938 Posts
September 04 2012 22:51 GMT
#46174
On September 05 2012 07:32 Sentenal wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 05 2012 06:52 Shauni wrote:
Inspiring? Succeeding? Rising after a challenge? Why should entertainment only cover that side of the coin? Your whole definition of enjoyment is skewed. Pathetic things can't bring enjoyment to you? Tragedy? What about someone failing to meet up to the expectations? Why would it be wrong to depict that? Why does the media have to cater to your typical "feelgood" scenarios in order to become meaningful?
I kind of agree with Requizen in this aspect, I don't see why media has to portray life in one simplistic way, there is so much variance in life and most of it doesn't even attempt to portray it accurately, instead just relying on simple storytelling mechanisms which was often made in regard to children's perception of reality.

For example, I watched a movie yesterday. It was about a woman laying on her deathbed in cancer, with her two sisters being unable to comfort her or be by her side, not wanting to touch a woman with disease, coping with the situation by sending in their servant in their stead. And the two sisters kept fighting, being unable to understand one another, even after the third sister died.
There were no "likable" characters, no fulfillment or conclusion reached. It was enervating and painful to listen to the regrets of her life and hate toward her deceiving sisters from the cancer ridden woman. It's very absurd to think that the woman should have died gracefully with some sweet last words just to make it more pleasurable for the viewers. It was painful, not enjoyable at all. I enjoyed the movie.

Ultimately, I feel that it's a misconception of the definition of enjoyment (in most of the entertainment industry, not just with anime).
The two main definitions are to me very different:

1. the act or condition of receiving pleasure from something
2. the use or possession of something that is satisfying or beneficial

Enjoyment in media does not have any relation to whether or not you like a character unless you define by (1). Enjoyment can be felt in any spectrum of emotions, even numbness or other lack of emotion. When you typically talk about the definition of enjoyment in media and art, it's vastly different from the (1) definition. The enjoyment lies in the intent of conveying, not simply the "end" emotion by the viewer. The idea of what you view bringing something new and stimulating to your mind, benefiting from the added experience and perception.

Also... in classic storytelling it's important to have characters that you comprehend, empathize with and sometimes even relate to. I understand that. But it's a giant leap from that to your "like" and "hate". Anime is a bit different from most media in this regard, because the viewers typically prefer to relate to the characters in a simple and pleasurable way. It's quite shallow since, as you say, the likable characters are rarely even remotely realistic portrayals of human beings. It's like taking merely a few (from millions) pleasurable traits, reactions, actions, emotions of a person and stuffing it into an anime character, creating something disgusting like Azunyan...

So why is it wrong to define 'enjoyment' with the first definition, rather than the 2nd? Why can't it be a mix of both definitions?


Why define enjoyment at all? This argument is almost as bad as elitists bashing other people's preferences. YEAH I'M TALKING TO YOU, TLADT.

Leave my Azu-nyan alone, damn it.
Writer
Tabbris
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
Bangladesh2839 Posts
September 04 2012 22:55 GMT
#46175
On September 05 2012 07:47 Sentenal wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 05 2012 07:43 Tabbris wrote:
Hmm I was baiting Sent to tell my why he didnt like eva cause I honestly had no idea and was curious. Didnt mean for a backlash like that it was just a talking point. Ill just end it with this. Sent did you like the Rebuild series? It seems like the major problems you had with eva is addressed in the movies

Rebuild is better, IMO. With Rebuild, I'm pretty sure most people who liked the series, thinks Rebuild is worse, and visa versa. Like, I liked Mari, but I can see how someone who liked the Evangelion tv series would see her inclusion as an abomination.

What? People didnt like Mari? I never heard of this....Are people upset that she doesnt act like she has mommy issues or somthing? I guess someone who really liked the series could argue Shinji turned into a generic shonen character but thats it. Tho he still portrayed more realism then most anime.
Milkis
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
5003 Posts
September 04 2012 22:57 GMT
#46176
On September 05 2012 07:51 Souma wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 05 2012 07:32 Sentenal wrote:
On September 05 2012 06:52 Shauni wrote:
Inspiring? Succeeding? Rising after a challenge? Why should entertainment only cover that side of the coin? Your whole definition of enjoyment is skewed. Pathetic things can't bring enjoyment to you? Tragedy? What about someone failing to meet up to the expectations? Why would it be wrong to depict that? Why does the media have to cater to your typical "feelgood" scenarios in order to become meaningful?
I kind of agree with Requizen in this aspect, I don't see why media has to portray life in one simplistic way, there is so much variance in life and most of it doesn't even attempt to portray it accurately, instead just relying on simple storytelling mechanisms which was often made in regard to children's perception of reality.

For example, I watched a movie yesterday. It was about a woman laying on her deathbed in cancer, with her two sisters being unable to comfort her or be by her side, not wanting to touch a woman with disease, coping with the situation by sending in their servant in their stead. And the two sisters kept fighting, being unable to understand one another, even after the third sister died.
There were no "likable" characters, no fulfillment or conclusion reached. It was enervating and painful to listen to the regrets of her life and hate toward her deceiving sisters from the cancer ridden woman. It's very absurd to think that the woman should have died gracefully with some sweet last words just to make it more pleasurable for the viewers. It was painful, not enjoyable at all. I enjoyed the movie.

Ultimately, I feel that it's a misconception of the definition of enjoyment (in most of the entertainment industry, not just with anime).
The two main definitions are to me very different:

1. the act or condition of receiving pleasure from something
2. the use or possession of something that is satisfying or beneficial

Enjoyment in media does not have any relation to whether or not you like a character unless you define by (1). Enjoyment can be felt in any spectrum of emotions, even numbness or other lack of emotion. When you typically talk about the definition of enjoyment in media and art, it's vastly different from the (1) definition. The enjoyment lies in the intent of conveying, not simply the "end" emotion by the viewer. The idea of what you view bringing something new and stimulating to your mind, benefiting from the added experience and perception.

Also... in classic storytelling it's important to have characters that you comprehend, empathize with and sometimes even relate to. I understand that. But it's a giant leap from that to your "like" and "hate". Anime is a bit different from most media in this regard, because the viewers typically prefer to relate to the characters in a simple and pleasurable way. It's quite shallow since, as you say, the likable characters are rarely even remotely realistic portrayals of human beings. It's like taking merely a few (from millions) pleasurable traits, reactions, actions, emotions of a person and stuffing it into an anime character, creating something disgusting like Azunyan...

So why is it wrong to define 'enjoyment' with the first definition, rather than the 2nd? Why can't it be a mix of both definitions?


Why define enjoyment at all? This argument is almost as bad as elitists bashing other people's preferences. YEAH I'M TALKING TO YOU, TLADT.

Leave my Azu-nyan alone, damn it.


It's kind of a silly thing to define enjoyment, you're right, because people are very different and enjoy very different things. I think Shauni is just really vehement about this because if there aren't "standards" that are kept and if people go for sheer sense of enjoyment alone (like your azu nyan), standards lower as things appeal to the lowest common denominator, or something like that. Thankfully enough this isn't something I'd accept without empirical evidence, but that's what I'd be annoyed about if I cared about intellectual stimulation from my animes.

on that note jinrui is awesome.
Souma
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
2nd Worst City in CA8938 Posts
September 04 2012 22:58 GMT
#46177
On September 05 2012 07:55 Tabbris wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 05 2012 07:47 Sentenal wrote:
On September 05 2012 07:43 Tabbris wrote:
Hmm I was baiting Sent to tell my why he didnt like eva cause I honestly had no idea and was curious. Didnt mean for a backlash like that it was just a talking point. Ill just end it with this. Sent did you like the Rebuild series? It seems like the major problems you had with eva is addressed in the movies

Rebuild is better, IMO. With Rebuild, I'm pretty sure most people who liked the series, thinks Rebuild is worse, and visa versa. Like, I liked Mari, but I can see how someone who liked the Evangelion tv series would see her inclusion as an abomination.

What? People didnt like Mari? I never heard of this....Are people upset that she doesnt act like she has mommy issues or somthing? I guess someone who really liked the series could argue Shinji turned into a generic shonen character but thats it. Tho he still portrayed more realism then most anime.


I never understood the argument that Shinji is portrayed as realistic. If you took a kid from my hood and put him in a mecha he'd probably GTA the world.
Writer
Sentenal
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
United States12398 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-09-04 23:04:34
September 04 2012 23:03 GMT
#46178
On September 05 2012 07:51 Souma wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 05 2012 07:32 Sentenal wrote:
On September 05 2012 06:52 Shauni wrote:
Inspiring? Succeeding? Rising after a challenge? Why should entertainment only cover that side of the coin? Your whole definition of enjoyment is skewed. Pathetic things can't bring enjoyment to you? Tragedy? What about someone failing to meet up to the expectations? Why would it be wrong to depict that? Why does the media have to cater to your typical "feelgood" scenarios in order to become meaningful?
I kind of agree with Requizen in this aspect, I don't see why media has to portray life in one simplistic way, there is so much variance in life and most of it doesn't even attempt to portray it accurately, instead just relying on simple storytelling mechanisms which was often made in regard to children's perception of reality.

For example, I watched a movie yesterday. It was about a woman laying on her deathbed in cancer, with her two sisters being unable to comfort her or be by her side, not wanting to touch a woman with disease, coping with the situation by sending in their servant in their stead. And the two sisters kept fighting, being unable to understand one another, even after the third sister died.
There were no "likable" characters, no fulfillment or conclusion reached. It was enervating and painful to listen to the regrets of her life and hate toward her deceiving sisters from the cancer ridden woman. It's very absurd to think that the woman should have died gracefully with some sweet last words just to make it more pleasurable for the viewers. It was painful, not enjoyable at all. I enjoyed the movie.

Ultimately, I feel that it's a misconception of the definition of enjoyment (in most of the entertainment industry, not just with anime).
The two main definitions are to me very different:

1. the act or condition of receiving pleasure from something
2. the use or possession of something that is satisfying or beneficial

Enjoyment in media does not have any relation to whether or not you like a character unless you define by (1). Enjoyment can be felt in any spectrum of emotions, even numbness or other lack of emotion. When you typically talk about the definition of enjoyment in media and art, it's vastly different from the (1) definition. The enjoyment lies in the intent of conveying, not simply the "end" emotion by the viewer. The idea of what you view bringing something new and stimulating to your mind, benefiting from the added experience and perception.

Also... in classic storytelling it's important to have characters that you comprehend, empathize with and sometimes even relate to. I understand that. But it's a giant leap from that to your "like" and "hate". Anime is a bit different from most media in this regard, because the viewers typically prefer to relate to the characters in a simple and pleasurable way. It's quite shallow since, as you say, the likable characters are rarely even remotely realistic portrayals of human beings. It's like taking merely a few (from millions) pleasurable traits, reactions, actions, emotions of a person and stuffing it into an anime character, creating something disgusting like Azunyan...

So why is it wrong to define 'enjoyment' with the first definition, rather than the 2nd? Why can't it be a mix of both definitions?


Why define enjoyment at all? This argument is almost as bad as elitists bashing other people's preferences. YEAH I'M TALKING TO YOU, TLADT.

Leave my Azu-nyan alone, damn it.

I dunno, but Shauni seems to think its important.

On September 05 2012 07:55 Tabbris wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 05 2012 07:47 Sentenal wrote:
On September 05 2012 07:43 Tabbris wrote:
Hmm I was baiting Sent to tell my why he didnt like eva cause I honestly had no idea and was curious. Didnt mean for a backlash like that it was just a talking point. Ill just end it with this. Sent did you like the Rebuild series? It seems like the major problems you had with eva is addressed in the movies

Rebuild is better, IMO. With Rebuild, I'm pretty sure most people who liked the series, thinks Rebuild is worse, and visa versa. Like, I liked Mari, but I can see how someone who liked the Evangelion tv series would see her inclusion as an abomination.

What? People didnt like Mari? I never heard of this....Are people upset that she doesnt act like she has mommy issues or somthing? I guess someone who really liked the series could argue Shinji turned into a generic shonen character but thats it. Tho he still portrayed more realism then most anime.

Shes like the poster-child of "Why people like Shauni hate Rebuild of Evangelion".
"Apparently, Sentenal is a paragon of friendship and tolerance. " - Ech0ne
Tabbris
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
Bangladesh2839 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-09-04 23:05:58
September 04 2012 23:05 GMT
#46179
On September 05 2012 07:58 Souma wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 05 2012 07:55 Tabbris wrote:
On September 05 2012 07:47 Sentenal wrote:
On September 05 2012 07:43 Tabbris wrote:
Hmm I was baiting Sent to tell my why he didnt like eva cause I honestly had no idea and was curious. Didnt mean for a backlash like that it was just a talking point. Ill just end it with this. Sent did you like the Rebuild series? It seems like the major problems you had with eva is addressed in the movies

Rebuild is better, IMO. With Rebuild, I'm pretty sure most people who liked the series, thinks Rebuild is worse, and visa versa. Like, I liked Mari, but I can see how someone who liked the Evangelion tv series would see her inclusion as an abomination.

What? People didnt like Mari? I never heard of this....Are people upset that she doesnt act like she has mommy issues or somthing? I guess someone who really liked the series could argue Shinji turned into a generic shonen character but thats it. Tho he still portrayed more realism then most anime.


I never understood the argument that Shinji is portrayed as realistic. If you took a kid from my hood and put him in a mecha he'd probably GTA the world.

A 14 year old socially akward kid? Dont think shinji was raised in that type of hood bro
Maxie
Profile Joined August 2010
Sweden2653 Posts
September 04 2012 23:08 GMT
#46180
Hm, I never really liked NGE (got to like ep8 before stopping), but maybe I should check out Rebuild, it seems like it might fit me just a little bit better...
Prev 1 2307 2308 2309 2310 2311 6486 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 7m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
ByuN (SOOP) 17
Classic 16
StarCraft: Brood War
Rain 2587
BeSt 2188
firebathero 1277
Horang2 991
Shuttle 723
Jaedong 425
Hyun 345
Mini 284
Rush 219
EffOrt 185
[ Show more ]
Soulkey 169
Leta 161
Stork 138
Last 135
Zeus 122
Snow 121
Light 118
Larva 96
Pusan 74
Mind 71
Killer 47
ToSsGirL 44
ProTech35
hero 33
Free 31
Bale 27
Sharp 21
soO 17
sorry 17
Movie 15
Hm[arnc] 14
sOs 11
Dota 2
monkeys_forever202
XcaliburYe92
Counter-Strike
olofmeister776
Other Games
singsing1372
Lowko289
ArmadaUGS258
byalli253
XaKoH 242
B2W.Neo197
Fuzer 177
crisheroes173
Mew2King100
ToD86
KnowMe49
Railgan26
Organizations
StarCraft: Brood War
UltimateBattle 33
lovetv 7
[ Show 11 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• LUISG 61
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• ChaeLyn 4
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Stunt526
Upcoming Events
INu's Battles
7m
ByuN vs Classic
IntoTheiNu 402
ByuN (SOOP) 17
Classic 16
3D!Clan Event
4h 37m
The PondCast
22h 7m
KCM Race Survival
22h 7m
WardiTV Invitational
1d
OSC
1d 11h
ArT vs MindelVK
MiniZergUA vs TBD
Shameless vs TBD
Ultimate Battle
2 days
OSC
2 days
ByuN vs MaxPax
herO vs Krystianer
Percival vs Shameless
LetaleX vs YoungYakov
Nicoract vs Gerald
GgMaChine vs ArT
CranKy Ducklings
2 days
IPSL
3 days
TerrOr vs IJ_Terran
rasowy vs Hazorath
[ Show More ]
BSL
3 days
TerrOr vs OyAji
UltrA vs Gosudark
Sparkling Tuna Cup
3 days
IPSL
4 days
Art_Of_Turtle vs KameZerg
Radley vs George
BSL
4 days
Artosis vs Dewalt
Ret vs Tech
WardiTV Weekly
5 days
PiGosaur Cup
6 days
The PondCast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-11-09
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
HCC Season 3

Ongoing

Acropolis #5
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 4
International ShieldBattery League
Individual League
BSL Season 23
IPSL Winter 2026-27
Calamity Cup Div. A Season 8
BLAST Rivals Fall 2026
IEM Beijing 2026
PGL Masters Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 5
1win Private Club #2
Thunderpick World Champ. '26
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
1win Private Club #1
Logitech G Play Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #3
BLAST Open Fall 2026

Upcoming

YSL S4
Sector 951
SC4ALL II: Brood War
BSL 23: Non-Korean Championship
HSC XXX
Stellar Fest 2: Lunar Cup
StarCraft2 Weekly Open Tournament 2026 Grand Finals
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Offline Finals
Underdog Cup 2026 Div 2-3
PGL Bucharest 2027
BLAST Bounty Winter 2027
PGL Major Singapore 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 6
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.