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On February 08 2014 18:45 sumsaR wrote:An enraged Garp. Show nested quote +On February 08 2014 18:44 goody153 wrote:On February 08 2014 18:39 17Sphynx17 wrote:
Aokiji is no longer a Marine so you have to delete him.
I still don't understand Sengoku's power to even gauge his strength. All I know is that it is a golden buddha, but what does it do really?
I still believe it is Kizaru for speed and attack potential in a one on one battle. It doesn't matter that he shows himself to be goofy but he can get the job done if he needs to. So far, from what I see, his attitude is more aloof and just so that he doesn't get into trouble most of the time.
And how are people thinking Garp is the strongest ? He was Roger's rival, and should still be rather strong. Try to imagine what would have happened to Akainu if Sengoku had not held Garp down after Ace was killed.
Garp would be dead. That's how i think about it. If it were the past where he supposedly in his prime Akainu would be dead. I feel like Akainu is so underrated by people and not given enough credit but logically thinking Garp would be dead but i am pretty sure Akainu might be close to dead when that happens. I just don't feel conviced that Magma guy would lose to Garp.
Akainu is probably the characters with the biggest balls in the one piece. And judging from where shanks stepped in and Akainu didn't persue the fight any further.
I think he was willing to fight whitebeard because he was confident he could win but not in the case of shanks since he was u know tired and damaged but with full health i think he could massacre Garp. Although i think maybe not on his prime.
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On February 08 2014 18:50 goody153 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 08 2014 18:45 sumsaR wrote:An enraged Garp. On February 08 2014 18:44 goody153 wrote:On February 08 2014 18:39 17Sphynx17 wrote:
Aokiji is no longer a Marine so you have to delete him.
I still don't understand Sengoku's power to even gauge his strength. All I know is that it is a golden buddha, but what does it do really?
I still believe it is Kizaru for speed and attack potential in a one on one battle. It doesn't matter that he shows himself to be goofy but he can get the job done if he needs to. So far, from what I see, his attitude is more aloof and just so that he doesn't get into trouble most of the time.
And how are people thinking Garp is the strongest ? He was Roger's rival, and should still be rather strong. Try to imagine what would have happened to Akainu if Sengoku had not held Garp down after Ace was killed. Garp would be dead. That's how i think about it. If it were the past where he supposedly in his prime Akainu would be dead. I feel like Akainu is so underrated by people and not given enough credit but logically thinking Garp would be dead but i am pretty sure Akainu might be close to dead when that happens. I just don't feel conviced that Magma guy would lose to Garp. Akainu is probably the characters with the biggest balls in the one piece. And judging from where shanks stepped in and Akainu didn't persue the fight any further. I think he was willing to fight whitebeard because he was confident he could win but not in the case of shanks since he was u know tired and damaged but with full health i think he could massacre Garp. Although i think maybe not on his prime.
you underrate garp too much, roger was stronger than whitebeard
akainu almost lost to whitebeard
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On February 08 2014 18:57 sharkie wrote:Show nested quote +On February 08 2014 18:50 goody153 wrote:On February 08 2014 18:45 sumsaR wrote:An enraged Garp. On February 08 2014 18:44 goody153 wrote:On February 08 2014 18:39 17Sphynx17 wrote:
Aokiji is no longer a Marine so you have to delete him.
I still don't understand Sengoku's power to even gauge his strength. All I know is that it is a golden buddha, but what does it do really?
I still believe it is Kizaru for speed and attack potential in a one on one battle. It doesn't matter that he shows himself to be goofy but he can get the job done if he needs to. So far, from what I see, his attitude is more aloof and just so that he doesn't get into trouble most of the time.
And how are people thinking Garp is the strongest ? He was Roger's rival, and should still be rather strong. Try to imagine what would have happened to Akainu if Sengoku had not held Garp down after Ace was killed. Garp would be dead. That's how i think about it. If it were the past where he supposedly in his prime Akainu would be dead. I feel like Akainu is so underrated by people and not given enough credit but logically thinking Garp would be dead but i am pretty sure Akainu might be close to dead when that happens. I just don't feel conviced that Magma guy would lose to Garp. Akainu is probably the characters with the biggest balls in the one piece. And judging from where shanks stepped in and Akainu didn't persue the fight any further. I think he was willing to fight whitebeard because he was confident he could win but not in the case of shanks since he was u know tired and damaged but with full health i think he could massacre Garp. Although i think maybe not on his prime. you underrate garp too much, roger was stronger than whitebeard akainu almost lost to whitebeard
i don't think Garp is that strong nowadays. While whitebeard kept his title as Yonkou until he died even with the new powerful pirates popping.
Although i could say that Prime Garp > Akainu . Not the current one.
Anyways i believe new gen is stronger than the old gen ! but that's just my opinion
current BB> Whitebeard
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So you think that Whitebeard (weaker than Roger during his prime) stayed strong even during old age and sickness, but Garp (more or less on par with Roger during his Prime) became much weaker? Right.
Don't you think there was a reason Sengoku and Garp was the last line of defense during Ace's execution?
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On February 08 2014 19:11 sumsaR wrote:
So you think that Whitebeard stayed strong even during old age and sickness, but Garp became much weaker? Right.
Don't you think there was a reason Sengoku and Garp was the last line of defense during Ace's execution?
Idk man. I just don't feel like Garp is that strong nowadays. Whitebeard has the crazy DF so it was reasonable he was powerful till now. Garp only has haki.
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Why people think Garp istronger than the admirals?
Maybe because people don't use assumptions based on what characters could do with their devil fruit powers using real physics or other assumptions. Using properties of real world light the best Kizaru could do is to blind his enemies and slowly burn people with concentrated light. Obviously it doesn't work remotely like that in the manga.
Garp punched the magical, untouchable, immortal phoenix in the face. Garp was the rival of Roger without ever having or needing a devils fruit.
He has risen beyond the limits of a normal marine and entered the realm of legend. The legend that pirates fear. He is known through the entire world as the legendary marine.
To make it short: You don't need cool looking devil fruit powers. Garp is the proof for that.
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That is the problem with Garp. We only know his past power level and most assume his strength because he was part of the last line of defense.
There is no arguing that Garp was admiral level back then when he was rivaled with Roger. It was stated I believe that he declined his promotion and stuck to Vice Admiral position.
But we don't know if that "prime Garp" is the same Garp we have at present.
If you are just saying that they were the last line of defense in the marineford arc, why would you use that assumption for the basis of strength? Did the plan state that all 3 admirals should fall to the enemies before they actually lifted a finger? Or was it joining the 3 Admirals if they saw that the war was tilting in favor of the pirates?
Among the characters actually present during the fight, who was even on part with an admiral, other than Whitebeard?
Jozu and Marco technically were not, as far as how I saw the flow of the fight. They wouldn't be able to take them one on one or head on.
If Shanks did not appear, the war would have been completely lost by the pirates yet Sengoku and Garp barely lifted a finger. That is not a gauge of their strength.
Puching Marco and causing damage is part of the phoenix (rising from the ashes') power. It does not negate damage, especially if there is Haki right? (this is if you are arguing the fire form of the phoenix wherein there is no physical form to actually hit). We can assume he may be able to resurrect, that does not mean he can't be defeated by anyone with proper Haki training, and if you put him up against someone like Caesar where they manipulate the "Gas" everywhere, maybe you could also remove his flight ability and ability to maintain a fire/breathe. That is already without even bothering with Haki.
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Smoker is clearly much weaker than Aokiji based on their small fights against Doflamingo... Smoker got owned in an instant (and was even losing to Vergo, Doflamingo's subordinate) while Doflamingo backed away from Aokiji. Aokiji is weaker than Akainu based on their 1v1 fight. So Akainu comes out on top of those three for sure.
Garp got old along with Sengoku. It's just like when Crocodile saw Whitebeard as being weak in his age and was willing to challenge him. Crocodile isn't even close to the strongest current or former Shichibukai according to most lists. Garp's time is over and so is Sengoku's and I think they both realized it during the Summit War, which is why they both essentially retired afterwards. Sengoku was probably actually sparing Garp a bad death by holding him back against Akainu. Might as well consider Kong the strongest if you think one of those two are still the strongest.
Even with an enraged Whitebeard getting the drop on Akainu, Akainu still came out of it without any serious injuries and delivered what should eventually be fatal blows in return. That should tell you something about the power of Akainu.
So that really only leaves Fujitora and Kizaru to challenge Akainu. Fujitora's power is still too unknown, but it would be surprising to see Oda introduce a character so late out of nowhere who is even more powerful than Akainu. He could be very powerful, but it doesn't feel right for him to surpass his superior officer who just took office after winning a 1v1 fight vs another admiral. It wouldn't even surprise me if Fujitora gets killed by Doflamingo towards the end of the Dressrosa arc.
That really leaves Kizaru. As far as I'm concerned, he has one of the most powerful fruits... maybe the #1 fruit. He's never seemed to take any fight seriously. Even fighting Rayleigh, Kizaru mocks him. Same with Ben Beckman... hands up like he's been defeated, but then still fires off a bunch of light bursts after a diving submarine. He mocks every single fighter that fights him and then blows away anyone he wants. Luckily for any pirate, he just seems to not care that much about anything. I think he'd be hella scary if he ever got serious and gets my vote. Unfortunately, I don't know that he'll ever truly get serious and might even end up as 3rd admiral being Sanji's opponent (light speed kicks, mocking) rather than Zoro's opponent (sword of light).
As for that last argument about a non-zoan inside an inanimate object, remember the CP9's description of what happens when you eat two Devil's fruits. They describe it as two sentient devils actually fighting inside your body and destroying the owner. There might be a way to communicate with that devil and implant him into an inanimate object, like a sword. Then the devil controls his powers to his master's will through some form of communication. No guarantee that's what's happening with Fujitora, but it's a possibility.
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On February 08 2014 19:28 Mataza wrote:
Why people think Garp istronger than the admirals?
Maybe because people don't use assumptions based on what characters could do with their devil fruit powers using real physics or other assumptions. Using properties of real world light the best Kizaru could do is to blind his enemies and slowly burn people with concentrated light. Obviously it doesn't work remotely like that in the manga.
Garp punched the magical, untouchable, immortal phoenix in the face. Garp was the rival of Roger without ever having or needing a devils fruit.
He has risen beyond the limits of a normal marine and entered the realm of legend. The legend that pirates fear. He is known through the entire world as the legendary marine.
To make it short: You don't need cool looking devil fruit powers. Garp is the proof for that.
uhm yeah like Mihawk and Shanks everyone who has mastered haki can punch the face of the magical, untouchable, immortal phoenix in the face but that doesn't matter having a powerful DF does not matter at all.
That's the reason why whitebeard mostly overpowers his enemies.
I still don't think that Garp is superior to akainu right now.
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On February 08 2014 19:41 17Sphynx17 wrote:
That is the problem with Garp. We only know his past power level and most assume his strength because he was part of the last line of defense.
There is no arguing that Garp was admiral level back then when he was rivaled with Roger. It was stated I believe that he declined his promotion and stuck to Vice Admiral position.
But we don't know if that "prime Garp" is the same Garp we have at present.
If you are just saying that they were the last line of defense in the marineford arc, why would you use that assumption for the basis of strength? Did the plan state that all 3 admirals should fall to the enemies before they actually lifted a finger? Or was it joining the 3 Admirals if they saw that the war was tilting in favor of the pirates?
Among the characters actually present during the fight, who was even on part with an admiral, other than Whitebeard?
Jozu and Marco technically were not, as far as how I saw the flow of the fight. They wouldn't be able to take them one on one or head on.
If Shanks did not appear, the war would have been completely lost by the pirates yet Sengoku and Garp barely lifted a finger. That is not a gauge of their strength.
Puching Marco and causing damage is part of the phoenix (rising from the ashes') power. It does not negate damage, especially if there is Haki right? (this is if you are arguing the fire form of the phoenix wherein there is no physical form to actually hit). We can assume he may be able to resurrect, that does not mean he can't be defeated by anyone with proper Haki training, and if you put him up against someone like Caesar where they manipulate the "Gas" everywhere, maybe you could also remove his flight ability and ability to maintain a fire/breathe. That is already without even bothering with Haki.
According to Sc2holar Marco was able to take a magma punch to the chest, the same one that killed Ace, and Marco was basically undamaged by that.
If you believe that Akainu is stronger than Garp, then you're wrong. Because Akainu failed to do something that Garp did with ease.
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Akainu never even came in contact with Marco except that one time when Marco doubletagged him with Vista and he called them annoying.
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To add:
I think people fail to consider strategy wherein both Sengoku and Garp are the ones with the most experience to properly gauge the battle (given their age and the time they existed as part of the marines). But if you had them near the frontlines, any encounter would greatly hinder their ability to asses the battle as a whole as they would be focusing on their battles.
They might not be the strongest even during the war, but they were the last line of defense because from their vantage point, they could judge how the war was going and in whose favor. So they could step in when their side is losing.
You could argue they maybe lower than any of the 3 admirals in terms of attack power, but they are at least considered to be able to go toe to toe with someone like whitebeard, which is already scary for a regular soldier.
Adding a Level 80 character to help a level 85 character still helps, when they are up against level 70 enemies. I mean, that's how I see it.
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On February 08 2014 19:51 Mataza wrote:Show nested quote +On February 08 2014 19:41 17Sphynx17 wrote:
That is the problem with Garp. We only know his past power level and most assume his strength because he was part of the last line of defense.
There is no arguing that Garp was admiral level back then when he was rivaled with Roger. It was stated I believe that he declined his promotion and stuck to Vice Admiral position.
But we don't know if that "prime Garp" is the same Garp we have at present.
If you are just saying that they were the last line of defense in the marineford arc, why would you use that assumption for the basis of strength? Did the plan state that all 3 admirals should fall to the enemies before they actually lifted a finger? Or was it joining the 3 Admirals if they saw that the war was tilting in favor of the pirates?
Among the characters actually present during the fight, who was even on part with an admiral, other than Whitebeard?
Jozu and Marco technically were not, as far as how I saw the flow of the fight. They wouldn't be able to take them one on one or head on.
If Shanks did not appear, the war would have been completely lost by the pirates yet Sengoku and Garp barely lifted a finger. That is not a gauge of their strength.
Puching Marco and causing damage is part of the phoenix (rising from the ashes') power. It does not negate damage, especially if there is Haki right? (this is if you are arguing the fire form of the phoenix wherein there is no physical form to actually hit). We can assume he may be able to resurrect, that does not mean he can't be defeated by anyone with proper Haki training, and if you put him up against someone like Caesar where they manipulate the "Gas" everywhere, maybe you could also remove his flight ability and ability to maintain a fire/breathe. That is already without even bothering with Haki. According to Sc2holar Marco was able to take a magma punch to the chest, the same one that killed Ace, and Marco was basically undamaged by that. If you believe that Akainu is stronger than Garp, then you're wrong. Because Akainu failed to do something that Garp did with ease.
Marco expected to be attacked. He could have blocked akainu's haki with his own haki but in Garp case he just did Yolo and from what i have seen Marco was not expecting Garp's attack. Thats why he was hit.
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To be honest I don't have the time and energy to engage in this conversation.
So sure, Akainu is the strongest.
He almost went alone against Whitebeard too, only assisted by the entire marine force that they could fit on that island. Including as many cannons as the could point at Whitebeard.
Akainu almost beat Whitebeard too. He was second best in his duel against Whitebeard after all.
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http://www.mangareader.net/103-28714-2/one-piece/chapter-554.html
They explained Marco's power in passing. "He can recover from any attack along with his flames" So he technically took damage even from Kizaru but just "recovered from it" as seen by the art showing the missing half of his face. So whatever the case, he took damage from both Akainu, Kizaru and even Garp. He just so happens to have recovered from them.
If it was a knockout attack, then the physical damage is healed, but recovery doesn't include actually waking up from the knockout. So wolverine basically.
http://onepiece.wikia.com/wiki/Marco
I'm having difficulty finding the chapter where Marco was "defeated" by Garp but unfazed by Akainu's attack? So again, I think he still suffers damage, just that he can recover from it (again, like wolverine).
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Hi,
Whitebeard died after being stabbed by Squardo, being shot by hundreds of bullets and cannons (there are stats somewhere), fighting Akainu (who made a hole in his chets), fighting BB and it THEN took the entire BB crew to finish him off. I can't remember if anyone else had a go at him.
It took the collective efforts of quite a few people to bring this guy down. There's little doubt in my mind that he truly was the strongest man in the world, even at Marineford. It's just that even the strongest in the world can die, if faced with that much opposition.
Hence Mihawk's comment on Luffy having the most dangerous ability in the world; that of rallying people around him.
Garp was Roger's greatest rival amongst the Marines, however Whitebeard also fought equally with Roger in his "prime". So, I think it would be safe to assume that Garp is indeed, quite damn strong.
Regards,
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Austria24422 Posts
We haven't seen much from Sengoku but what we did see made him look strong as fuck
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On February 08 2014 20:41 17Sphynx17 wrote:http://www.mangareader.net/103-28714-2/one-piece/chapter-554.htmlThey explained Marco's power in passing. "He can recover from any attack along with his flames" So he technically took damage even from Kizaru but just "recovered from it" as seen by the art showing the missing half of his face. So whatever the case, he took damage from both Akainu, Kizaru and even Garp. He just so happens to have recovered from them. If it was a knockout attack, then the physical damage is healed, but recovery doesn't include actually waking up from the knockout. So wolverine basically. http://onepiece.wikia.com/wiki/MarcoI'm having difficulty finding the chapter where Marco was "defeated" by Garp but unfazed by Akainu's attack? So again, I think he still suffers damage, just that he can recover from it (again, like wolverine).
He was not defeated . He took the attack by surprise from what i remember. He was just knocked down but not knocked unconcious.
He technically blocked Akainu that time that why he was unfazed. As i said on Garp's case he was not expecting it.
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I almost never get into the power level crap.. but..
Akainu for me is weaker then Garp and here's why:
Young Gol D. Roger =/= Young Garp
Young Gol D. Roger > Young Whitebeard
So naturally
Young Garp > Young Whitebeard
Young Akainu > old Whitebeard (With a disease that had him tubed for yeaars and in need of medicine), stabbed by his own man, tired and having been blowned up, hit, stabed shot .. whatever!
Young Akainu < Old whitebeard in a clean 1on1 fight
Old Garp =/= Old whitebeard but with garp with the upper hand
Young Akainu < Old Garp
Imo in a 1on1 fight akainu would loose to whitebeard and to garp!
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Aoikiji is stronger than Akainu for obvious reasons. It was even stated by Akainu that fruits of a higher element would beat the lower, and Akainu directly counters Aoikiji. Battle still took several days, and Aoikiji was strong enough to freeze half the island and not have t melt.
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EPT
