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nami doesn't have haki, otherwise she wouldn't have had any problems with monet in one of the previous few chapters.
back to the seastone topic: Upon contact, the seastone drains the devil fruit user's body of energy and negates their devil fruit powers.So, on instant and constant contact, devil fruit users can be instantly rendered useless. In the first few chapters, Shanks laughed at Luffy for not being able to swim and proclaiming "What kind of pirate doesn't know how to swim??".
The real question is how rare are these stones?
The marines have entire cuffs, nets and cages made of them, the entirety of ships bottoms coated with them (to protect from sea kings). Smoker got the seastone tip before the 2 year arc, so it's reasonable to assume that you don't have to be a very high ranking marine to receive one Wiper from skypeia arc had skates made of them, so although not as common, non-marines definitely have access to them Shichibukai such as Crocodile and Doflamingo also have access to them, but since they are shichibukai they probably get it from the marines
The reason why seastone would be used is that although haki can be used to fight against devil fruit users such as logia, seastone would be able to completely subdue them.
If the marines already make nets to subdue DF pirates, why not equip mid-high ranking admirals with seastone weapons to fight against low bounty devil fruit pirates?
Id like to point out that it doesnt infact right away take away their strength, it takes it away over time so im sure a logia or something could easily handle a mid high level ranking person in the navy because of the huge power given by DF, also seastone might be just have to many cons like you cant have it around other df users on the same area because it would steal strength
A decent explanation may be related to what Law was telling Joker a chapter ago..that the marines were gathering their forces in order to prepare for a big war among the big names in the New World.
Could just be that the sea stone is being rationed for the big upcoming conflict in the future.
On the other hand, while sea stone has proven to be useful as a subduing equipment (cuffs, nets, prisons bars, etc) I am having doubts about it being that useful as a combat weapon (for common foot soldiers/cannon fodder anyway). I mean look..
Since sea stone completely equals the effects of exposure to sea water. The fish-man island arc has proven multiple times that DF users can in fact (at least for shirt periods of time) fight underwater; Luffy gear-3rding the kraken, Redhawk and fighting with Hody, Robin saving the ship by blooming arms underwater, etc.
This implies that prolonged exposure is necessary for sea-stone to really work at subduing DF users. And since sea water in OP had a much greater affect in the past i have this thought. When you reach a certain level of strength, a DF user can in fact fight underwater or while getting hit with sea-stone weapons, although clearly they will still be weakened considerably as a result.
Here's an idea: giant pumps to make it rain sea water. Have ten warships surrounding the island bombarding it with sea water. Hurts no one except fruit users.
Edit: okay all they need is an umbrella.... uhhh how about have part of the army use water guns? I mean there's got to be a way to exploit sea water without it in stone form.
On December 09 2012 18:37 []Phase[] wrote: Well in all honesty some of the points Forik makes seem a quite reasonable explanation. The reason why I dont think its haki is simply because it wouldve been named as such. And more importantly : Oda probably just wanted characters with the ability of being superstrong, but might not have thought out the entire haki thing yet, or atleast didnt want to give these characters haki abilities. You have to see the manga in its timeframe aswell : as far as I remember Haki back then wasent such a big deal yet, and it seems totally reasonable that there are strong characters with wacky abilities out there that are not based on haki. It makes One Piece all the more fun : it just means more possibilities.
I think you´re implying Oda didn´t plan Haki in advance, i.e. he may retcon things to fit. Gotta disagree, because he actually foreshadows plot way before it happens. "Mantra" a.k.a. observation haki was introduced in skypiea. Water7 and the introduction of CP9 and rokushiki was after that. Even Conqueror's haki was introduced after the CP9 fight, with Shanks + Show Spoiler +
Well quite clearly Shanks sucked back then as he still lost his arm.
On seastone: Seastone merely disables df powers and weakens df users, if I recall correctly. Handcuffed df users were after all still able to able walk normally. If it drained them of all their powers, they would have to be carried like unconscious people after capture. So if a person as strong as Sanji or Zoro would eat a devil fruit and then got in touch with seastone, they would still be close to their original strength, possibly weakened but still stronger then regular marines or Nami. Under those circumstances giving low/mid ranking troops seastone weaponry wouldn´t help the marine at all, especially since most pirate ships only have a handful df users. I think the highest concentration of df users so far was baroque works: Pairs 0 through 5 were 100% df users, that´s 11 people(Mr 2 worked solo, mr 4 had no df, but his dog had a df). Aside from high ranking marines, like the admirals, captains and CP9 I don´t remember many enemies of the strawhats with lots of df users from the top of my head. Meaning that devil fruits are quite rare and usually handed to the elite members of most organizations. Meaning common soldiers don´t really benefit from seastone weapons when they can´t beat a person without its df power anyway.
Air, despite what you may believe, is not naturally solid.
]Haki simply reverts devil fruit users to their normal solid body state. It cannot make something that is not supposed to be solid, such as air, solid
it was never said that it can only make things that are naturally solid and turn non-solid solid again it simply was explained that it can make things solid
Haki was explained. You really have no reason to say "you can't prove us wrong", when it was already explained and it's explanation proves you wrong. We have no reason at all to believe haki has any more usages than what we were told, and we weren't told it can do what you claim it can.
im sure Oda plans to make a much more rich universe then one that can be explained in 2 pages RAyleigh jsut gave the basic idea of how Haki works and its event aht basic explanation that im basing my theory on he said it can force things to become solid which fits perfectly in how Rokoshiki users jump in the air
thats mroe likely to be jsut strong guy being scary if it was Haki then why didnt he just harden his arm or jsut dodge the attack?
The marines have entire cuffs, nets and cages made of them, the entirety of ships bottoms coated with them (to protect from sea kings).
we havent seen nets made entirely of seastone (obviously since its such a hard metal), weve seen nets with seastone in them but since Buggy and Mr. 3 were able to climb one of those nets its obviously not that effective at handling fruit users
also making entire cages out of seastone is pointless if you have cuffs made of seastone, if the fruit user is barely strong enough to stand he couldnt break out of a normal cage
Here's an idea: giant pumps to make it rain sea water. Have ten warships surrounding the island bombarding it with sea water. Hurts no one except fruit users.
Edit: okay all they need is an umbrella.... uhhh how about have part of the army use water guns? I mean there's got to be a way to exploit sea water without it in stone form.
fruit users have to be submerged in water not jsut wet its possible that on Shabondy they could make guns that fire bubbles full of water, if a fruit user got caught int aht hed be unable to escape and would drown
Oda on one of his responses to the SBS questions said one of his biggest regret was having Shanks lose his arm, thus giving himself a plothole. This was due to Oda created the concept of Haki, but did not think he was going to expand upon it until much later in the manga. And no i am not going to bother looking up the link to where he says it.
Air, despite what you may believe, is not naturally solid.
]Haki simply reverts devil fruit users to their normal solid body state. It cannot make something that is not supposed to be solid, such as air, solid
it was never said that it can only make things that are naturally solid and turn non-solid solid again it simply was explained that it can make things solid
Haki was explained. You really have no reason to say "you can't prove us wrong", when it was already explained and it's explanation proves you wrong. We have no reason at all to believe haki has any more usages than what we were told, and we weren't told it can do what you claim it can.
im sure Oda plans to make a much more rich universe then one that can be explained in 2 pages RAyleigh jsut gave the basic idea of how Haki works and its event aht basic explanation that im basing my theory on he said it can force things to become solid which fits perfectly in how Rokoshiki users jump in the air
If you're over the age of 12, and you believe what you're saying, then I legitimately fear for the future of mankind.
Though you've gotten me curious as to what "solid air" would be like lol.
On December 10 2012 13:38 Forikorder wrote: thats mroe likely to be jsut strong guy being scary if it was Haki then why didnt he just harden his arm or jsut dodge the attack?
There's several possible reasons for that. One is that Oda hadn't come up with coa back then. Another is that Shanks wasn't able to control his haki 12 years ago.
On December 10 2012 14:31 killa_robot wrote: Though you've gotten me curious as to what "solid air" would be like lol.
It would be quite similar to frozen nitrogen, I'd guess.
Air, despite what you may believe, is not naturally solid.
]Haki simply reverts devil fruit users to their normal solid body state. It cannot make something that is not supposed to be solid, such as air, solid
it was never said that it can only make things that are naturally solid and turn non-solid solid again it simply was explained that it can make things solid
Haki was explained. You really have no reason to say "you can't prove us wrong", when it was already explained and it's explanation proves you wrong. We have no reason at all to believe haki has any more usages than what we were told, and we weren't told it can do what you claim it can.
im sure Oda plans to make a much more rich universe then one that can be explained in 2 pages RAyleigh jsut gave the basic idea of how Haki works and its event aht basic explanation that im basing my theory on he said it can force things to become solid which fits perfectly in how Rokoshiki users jump in the air
The marines have entire cuffs, nets and cages made of them, the entirety of ships bottoms coated with them (to protect from sea kings).
we havent seen nets made entirely of seastone (obviously since its such a hard metal), weve seen nets with seastone in them but since Buggy and Mr. 3 were able to climb one of those nets its obviously not that effective at handling fruit users
also making entire cages out of seastone is pointless if you have cuffs made of seastone, if the fruit user is barely strong enough to stand he couldnt break out of a normal cage
Here's an idea: giant pumps to make it rain sea water. Have ten warships surrounding the island bombarding it with sea water. Hurts no one except fruit users.
Edit: okay all they need is an umbrella.... uhhh how about have part of the army use water guns? I mean there's got to be a way to exploit sea water without it in stone form.
fruit users have to be submerged in water not jsut wet its possible that on Shabondy they could make guns that fire bubbles full of water, if a fruit user got caught int aht hed be unable to escape and would drown
On December 09 2012 12:26 CreatorofRagnarok wrote: Seastone is supposed to be extremely rare if memory serves, as it is also stronger than steel it would be used more commonly as everyday stuff if it was common.
Devil fruits are supposed to be rare too, but seems like almost everybody are DF users
Everyone important maybe, and their devil fruit makes them more important. On the entire island with well over a hundred people right now, there are like 8 devil fruit users
Then everyone important should be able to wield seastone weapons. All the criminals in Impel Down are locked by seastone, so the marines should not have a shortage of seastone. Non-DF users such as Garp and non-Haki users alike should be able to dominate DF pirates using seastone, destroying their ships to force them into the sea and other means
Smoker's weapon is seastone but it was snapped in half by both boa and vergo. I'm gonna guess that against powerful pirates they aren't really much more effective, so maybe the cost isn't worth it.
Personally speaking sea-stone bullets would be extremely powerful if someone don't know the haki to dodge the bullets. They would make a bee nest out of luffy in more than 1 occasions.
oh btw smoker's thing is only sea-stone tipped. If it's purely sea-stone it'll be difficult for him.
Then again... why use sea-stone? The navy should just invest in these bad boys:
Its not water itself that makes Devil Fruit users lose their power, its literally the "power of the sea" that does it.
On December 09 2012 12:26 CreatorofRagnarok wrote: Seastone is supposed to be extremely rare if memory serves, as it is also stronger than steel it would be used more commonly as everyday stuff if it was common.
Devil fruits are supposed to be rare too, but seems like almost everybody are DF users
Everyone important maybe, and their devil fruit makes them more important. On the entire island with well over a hundred people right now, there are like 8 devil fruit users
Then everyone important should be able to wield seastone weapons. All the criminals in Impel Down are locked by seastone, so the marines should not have a shortage of seastone. Non-DF users such as Garp and non-Haki users alike should be able to dominate DF pirates using seastone, destroying their ships to force them into the sea and other means
Smoker's weapon is seastone but it was snapped in half by both boa and vergo. I'm gonna guess that against powerful pirates they aren't really much more effective, so maybe the cost isn't worth it.
Personally speaking sea-stone bullets would be extremely powerful if someone don't know the haki to dodge the bullets. They would make a bee nest out of luffy in more than 1 occasions.
oh btw smoker's thing is only sea-stone tipped. If it's purely sea-stone it'll be difficult for him.
On December 09 2012 12:26 CreatorofRagnarok wrote: Seastone is supposed to be extremely rare if memory serves, as it is also stronger than steel it would be used more commonly as everyday stuff if it was common.
Devil fruits are supposed to be rare too, but seems like almost everybody are DF users
Everyone important maybe, and their devil fruit makes them more important. On the entire island with well over a hundred people right now, there are like 8 devil fruit users
Then everyone important should be able to wield seastone weapons. All the criminals in Impel Down are locked by seastone, so the marines should not have a shortage of seastone. Non-DF users such as Garp and non-Haki users alike should be able to dominate DF pirates using seastone, destroying their ships to force them into the sea and other means
Smoker's weapon is seastone but it was snapped in half by both boa and vergo. I'm gonna guess that against powerful pirates they aren't really much more effective, so maybe the cost isn't worth it.
Personally speaking sea-stone bullets would be extremely powerful if someone don't know the haki to dodge the bullets. They would make a bee nest out of luffy in more than 1 occasions.
oh btw smoker's thing is only sea-stone tipped. If it's purely sea-stone it'll be difficult for him.
On December 09 2012 12:26 CreatorofRagnarok wrote: Seastone is supposed to be extremely rare if memory serves, as it is also stronger than steel it would be used more commonly as everyday stuff if it was common.
Devil fruits are supposed to be rare too, but seems like almost everybody are DF users
Everyone important maybe, and their devil fruit makes them more important. On the entire island with well over a hundred people right now, there are like 8 devil fruit users
Then everyone important should be able to wield seastone weapons. All the criminals in Impel Down are locked by seastone, so the marines should not have a shortage of seastone. Non-DF users such as Garp and non-Haki users alike should be able to dominate DF pirates using seastone, destroying their ships to force them into the sea and other means
Smoker's weapon is seastone but it was snapped in half by both boa and vergo. I'm gonna guess that against powerful pirates they aren't really much more effective, so maybe the cost isn't worth it.
Personally speaking sea-stone bullets would be extremely powerful if someone don't know the haki to dodge the bullets. They would make a bee nest out of luffy in more than 1 occasions.
oh btw smoker's thing is only sea-stone tipped. If it's purely sea-stone it'll be difficult for him.
Air, despite what you may believe, is not naturally solid.
]Haki simply reverts devil fruit users to their normal solid body state. It cannot make something that is not supposed to be solid, such as air, solid
it was never said that it can only make things that are naturally solid and turn non-solid solid again it simply was explained that it can make things solid
Haki was explained. You really have no reason to say "you can't prove us wrong", when it was already explained and it's explanation proves you wrong. We have no reason at all to believe haki has any more usages than what we were told, and we weren't told it can do what you claim it can.
im sure Oda plans to make a much more rich universe then one that can be explained in 2 pages RAyleigh jsut gave the basic idea of how Haki works and its event aht basic explanation that im basing my theory on he said it can force things to become solid which fits perfectly in how Rokoshiki users jump in the air
The marines have entire cuffs, nets and cages made of them, the entirety of ships bottoms coated with them (to protect from sea kings).
we havent seen nets made entirely of seastone (obviously since its such a hard metal), weve seen nets with seastone in them but since Buggy and Mr. 3 were able to climb one of those nets its obviously not that effective at handling fruit users
also making entire cages out of seastone is pointless if you have cuffs made of seastone, if the fruit user is barely strong enough to stand he couldnt break out of a normal cage
Here's an idea: giant pumps to make it rain sea water. Have ten warships surrounding the island bombarding it with sea water. Hurts no one except fruit users.
Edit: okay all they need is an umbrella.... uhhh how about have part of the army use water guns? I mean there's got to be a way to exploit sea water without it in stone form.
fruit users have to be submerged in water not jsut wet its possible that on Shabondy they could make guns that fire bubbles full of water, if a fruit user got caught int aht hed be unable to escape and would drown
Pretty sure Smoker's sea stone nets owned Buggy and Alvida in Loguetown.
"Before they could do anything, they are captured by the guards with a Seastone-reinforced net. The commander of the Blugori: Saldeath tells them there is no escape, but the Sphinx, who was captured along them, breaks the net, setting them free."
So yes, the nets owned Buggy twice, so it is obviously effective at handling devil fruit users.
Oda regretting making Shanks lose his arm because Oda would eventually make Shanks into one of the strongest pirates in the One Piece universe is good to know. It does seem like a plot hole that Shanks would lose his arm to a weak sea king when he knows conqueror haki and already had a reputation (Whitebeard for example was shocked Shanks lost an arm). Though the concept of haki was probably not fully developed either.
Although the biggest thing that bothers me about One Piece is still Kuina's death where she died by falling down stairs in her own house after making the number 1 swordsman/woman promise with Zoro. I mean really Oda gave convenient diseases to Roger and Whitebeard to cut their reigns short plus other random characters but not Zoro's childhood friend. It could even have been a revenge fantasy if she was killed by a pirate hence why Zoro became a pirate hunter "You're the scum who killed my friend, prepare to die". The ridiculousness of her death makes me want to believe that Tashigi is Kuina even though it doesn't make sense.
EPT
