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On December 12 2012 00:50 Fleshcut wrote:Show nested quote +On December 12 2012 00:41 Sableyeah wrote:
Shanks loosing his arm has always bothered me but at least he's still one of the strongest. Maybe it's just that his crew is very strong. Nope, Shanks himself is very very strong. It's known that he fought Mihawk many times who is considered the strongest swordsman and he crossed swords with Whitebeard which led to a split sky. It's safe to say that Shanks is really strong and it's also bugging me that he lost his arm to a shark but I try to convince myself that he... a) ...wasn't strong back then (which would be weird though). b) ...did it on purpose to teach Luffy a lesson about sacrifices for friends or something.
Yeah Shanks was not so strong back then. That incident with Luffy was not too far from when Shank was still a boy on Roger ship. However after the encounter with Luffy, Shanks' strength has been growing exponentially I think.
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That's what I'm quite unsure about, Roger's execution was ~22years ago ( 24 post timeskip) which means at the point of the romance dawn flashback Shanks has been "the Red Hair pirate" for max 12 years because it's not quite sure when he founded his crew.
It's also quite interesting to think about how Buggy and Shanks survived the whole grandline/new world as little boys who are presumably weak, but I guess traveling with the likes of Roger and Rayleigh helps in that regard.
Nevertheless he should be easily able to defeat a little shark in East Blue and at the end of the day I think Oda just didn't plan to make Shanks a top top top tier pirate and former Roger Pirate when he wrote his first chapter but rather emphasized on the fact how much Luffy idolizes Shanks by getting his arm ripped off.
Having followed OP not since the beginning but for 7-8 years now I think I might even cry the day we finally see Shanks, Beckman, Lucky Rou and especially Yasopp, Usopp's dad in action.
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On December 12 2012 02:23 Forikorder wrote:Show nested quote +Rokushiki is a martial art and Haki is Ambition. Go to One Piece wiki page and look both of those up, they are both clearly explained. ya im sure the fan based wiki is mroe accurate then the author made story im drawing my examples from
something supernatural has to power Rokoshiki or walking on air would be impossiblei just assumed since Zoro said Tashigi reminds him of her so much
Stop posting bullcrap. Multiple people over the last 20 pages have already disproved your retarded theorys and you have no way to post "actual evidence from the author" to even prove what you keep bsing about is true. Why aren't you banned for posting dumb crap on every single manga thread and then arguing with every single person who have evidence of what you are saying is false. Either you are a very lost 10 year old or I feel sorry for you. Like 10 people have stated, including myself that Haki != Rokushiki, and this is MUCH more likely than your opinion of Haki= Rokushiki of which there is no direct evidence to support.
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It's a seaking not a shark. The shark was in the Romance Dawn version.
This is the page where Whitebeard is surprised that Shanks lost an arm.
http://www.mangapanda.com/103-2541-9/one-piece/chapter-434.html
Although it could be argued Whitebeard has bad memory/nostalgia talk as he says on the very same page Shanks' duel with Hawkeye is still new to him. Though Oda has apparently also said losing his arm did not weaken his strength which would be a weird thing to say if he was developing into a strong pirate instead of already a strong pirate.
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On December 12 2012 02:33 vndestiny wrote:Show nested quote +On December 12 2012 00:50 Fleshcut wrote:On December 12 2012 00:41 Sableyeah wrote:
Shanks loosing his arm has always bothered me but at least he's still one of the strongest. Maybe it's just that his crew is very strong. Nope, Shanks himself is very very strong. It's known that he fought Mihawk many times who is considered the strongest swordsman and he crossed swords with Whitebeard which led to a split sky. It's safe to say that Shanks is really strong and it's also bugging me that he lost his arm to a shark but I try to convince myself that he... a) ...wasn't strong back then (which would be weird though). b) ...did it on purpose to teach Luffy a lesson about sacrifices for friends or something. Yeah Shanks was not so strong back then. That incident with Luffy was not too far from when Shank was still a boy on Roger ship. However after the encounter with Luffy, Shanks' strength has been growing exponentially I think.
The problem with that theory is that Shanks already had the scar over his eye from Blackbeard. Which means that Shanks was already battling Whitebeard's crew at the time. Possibly it happened while he was still a part of Roger's crew, but he doesn't have the scar yet in Buggy's flashbacks to Roger's ship in chapter 19. Also, the conversation between Shanks and Whitebeard indicated that Blackbeard was secretly very strong because he was able to wound Shanks when he wasn't being careless. Essentially, Shanks was saying that he was already pretty damn powerful when it happened and the encounter with Luffy didn't happen until later.
I would chalk up Shank's lost arm to an extremely rare/powerful sea monster, but unfortunately Luffy beat the monster when he headed out to sea. So, it seems like Oda left us one plot hole right from the beginning. It's a shame too because I feel like Shanks had to lose him arm for Luffy to show how strong the bond was between them and how important he thought Luffy was for the future. Maybe Oda can say that Luffy beat the offspring of the sea monster and the real thing is now lurking in the New World. However, it would feel a little bit retconned.
While Oda seems to have a large overarching storyline that he's following, I don't think he has all the details filled in yet. Unfortunately, from the way the story has evolved, I have to believe that Haki is an evolving concept rather than one that was planned from the beginning. I'd suspect that Oda wrote himself into a bit of a corner with all the logias and needed a way out, thus Haki. He already explicitly rolled Mantra up under the Haki umbrella. With the similarities between Haki and Rokushiki (and there are a ton), I think it's a fair theory to believe that Haki is one of the underlying principles of the martial art (like Chi to many eastern martial arts). However, it's just a theory for now and we won't get confirmation within the manga until the CP9 guys come back (and even then it may be inconclusive).
And for the guys that quote Rayleigh's description of Haki as "a coat of armor", don't forget two pages later when he says its ability can be imbued into weapons (like the Kuja women) and fired at a distance. So it's clearly more than just a coat of armor. It can be used in multiple ways, and as an underlying force of energy (think Chi within Martial Arts, or The Force within Star Wars), it would explain a lot of the weird non-DF abilities that people have in One Piece. However, it wouldn't take away from the cool individual styles that fighters from all over the world have developed using the combination of muscle and haki.
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On December 12 2012 03:31 RenSC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 12 2012 02:33 vndestiny wrote:On December 12 2012 00:50 Fleshcut wrote:On December 12 2012 00:41 Sableyeah wrote:
Shanks loosing his arm has always bothered me but at least he's still one of the strongest. Maybe it's just that his crew is very strong. Nope, Shanks himself is very very strong. It's known that he fought Mihawk many times who is considered the strongest swordsman and he crossed swords with Whitebeard which led to a split sky. It's safe to say that Shanks is really strong and it's also bugging me that he lost his arm to a shark but I try to convince myself that he... a) ...wasn't strong back then (which would be weird though). b) ...did it on purpose to teach Luffy a lesson about sacrifices for friends or something. Yeah Shanks was not so strong back then. That incident with Luffy was not too far from when Shank was still a boy on Roger ship. However after the encounter with Luffy, Shanks' strength has been growing exponentially I think. The problem with that theory is that Shanks already had the scar over his eye from Blackbeard. Which means that Shanks was already battling Whitebeard's crew at the time. Possibly it happened while he was still a part of Roger's crew, but he doesn't have the scar yet in Buggy's flashbacks to Roger's ship in chapter 19. Also, the conversation between Shanks and Whitebeard indicated that Blackbeard was secretly very strong because he was able to wound Shanks when he wasn't being careless. Essentially, Shanks was saying that he was already pretty damn powerful when it happened and the encounter with Luffy didn't happen until later. I would chalk up Shank's lost arm to an extremely rare/powerful sea monster, but unfortunately Luffy beat the monster when he headed out to sea. It's a shame too because I feel like Shanks had to lose him arm for Luffy to show how strong the bond was between them and how important he thought Luffy was for the future. So, it seems like Oda left us one plot hole right from the beginning. Maybe he can say that Luffy beat the offspring of the sea monster and the real thing is now lurking in the New World. However, it would feel a little bit retconned. While Oda seems to have a large overarching storyline that he's following, I don't think he has all the details filled in yet. Unfortunately, from the way the story has evolved, I have to believe that Haki is an evolving concept rather than one that was planned from the beginning. I'd suspect that Oda wrote himself into a bit of a corner with all the logias and needed a way out, thus Haki. He already explicitly rolled Mantra up under the Haki umbrella. With the similarities between Haki and Rokushiki (and there are a ton), I think it's a fair theory to believe that Haki is one of the underlying principles of the martial art (like Chi to many eastern martial arts). However, it's just a theory for now and we won't get confirmation within the manga until the CP9 guys come back (and even then it may be inconclusive). And for the guys that quote Rayleigh's description of Haki as "a coat of armor", don't forget two pages later when he says its ability can be imbued into weapons (like the Kuja women) and fired at a distance. So it's clearly more than just a coat of armor. It can be used in multiple ways, and as an underlying force of energy (think Chi within Martial Arts, or The Force within Star Wars), it would explain a lot of the weird non-DF abilities that people have in One Piece. However, it wouldn't take away from the cool individual styles that fighters from all over the world have developed using the combination of muscle and haki.
This has already been covered. He said its like an invisible coat of armor. Then he said right after that "Naturally, stronger armor also results in a more powerful attack", which is true. If you hit someone with something really hard, it hurts alot more than hitting someone with something soft. Shooting steel arrows (which is what Haki made them seem like) would do alot more damage than shooting a wooden one.
Probably the most damning evidence against the "Rokushiki=Haki" fan fiction is that when Releigh was doing his entire explination, there wasn't even ONE call back to the CP9 and their abilities. Oda made sure to say that Mantra in Skypeia was Haki. He was sure to say that the Kuja used Haki. He was sure to say that Sentomaru used Haki. All these call backs to previous uses of Haki, but none of the CP9. I wonder why.
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On December 12 2012 02:33 vndestiny wrote:Show nested quote +On December 12 2012 00:50 Fleshcut wrote:On December 12 2012 00:41 Sableyeah wrote:
Shanks loosing his arm has always bothered me but at least he's still one of the strongest. Maybe it's just that his crew is very strong. Nope, Shanks himself is very very strong. It's known that he fought Mihawk many times who is considered the strongest swordsman and he crossed swords with Whitebeard which led to a split sky. It's safe to say that Shanks is really strong and it's also bugging me that he lost his arm to a shark but I try to convince myself that he... a) ...wasn't strong back then (which would be weird though). b) ...did it on purpose to teach Luffy a lesson about sacrifices for friends or something. Yeah Shanks was not so strong back then. That incident with Luffy was not too far from when Shank was still a boy on Roger ship. However after the encounter with Luffy, Shanks' strength has been growing exponentially I think.
Shanks was definitely strong back then. He had a reputation and his duel with Mihawk was before that time. He was possibly stronger back then since he had two hands and not everyone in the series is getting stronger with time like strawhats and their rivals.
He was undoubtedly strong enough to beat a seaking. You just have to accept the story. As Shanks pushed Luffy out of harms way the seaking bit his arm off.
On December 12 2012 02:54 AsnSensation wrote:
It's also quite interesting to think about how Buggy and Shanks survived the whole grandline/new world as little boys who are presumably weak, but I guess traveling with the likes of Roger and Rayleigh helps in that regard.
The Pirate era started with Rogers death, it's safe to say the grand line was not as dangerous at that time in regard of human threats.
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On December 12 2012 03:47 Sentenal wrote:Show nested quote +On December 12 2012 03:31 RenSC2 wrote:On December 12 2012 02:33 vndestiny wrote:On December 12 2012 00:50 Fleshcut wrote:On December 12 2012 00:41 Sableyeah wrote:
Shanks loosing his arm has always bothered me but at least he's still one of the strongest. Maybe it's just that his crew is very strong. Nope, Shanks himself is very very strong. It's known that he fought Mihawk many times who is considered the strongest swordsman and he crossed swords with Whitebeard which led to a split sky. It's safe to say that Shanks is really strong and it's also bugging me that he lost his arm to a shark but I try to convince myself that he... a) ...wasn't strong back then (which would be weird though). b) ...did it on purpose to teach Luffy a lesson about sacrifices for friends or something. Yeah Shanks was not so strong back then. That incident with Luffy was not too far from when Shank was still a boy on Roger ship. However after the encounter with Luffy, Shanks' strength has been growing exponentially I think. The problem with that theory is that Shanks already had the scar over his eye from Blackbeard. Which means that Shanks was already battling Whitebeard's crew at the time. Possibly it happened while he was still a part of Roger's crew, but he doesn't have the scar yet in Buggy's flashbacks to Roger's ship in chapter 19. Also, the conversation between Shanks and Whitebeard indicated that Blackbeard was secretly very strong because he was able to wound Shanks when he wasn't being careless. Essentially, Shanks was saying that he was already pretty damn powerful when it happened and the encounter with Luffy didn't happen until later. I would chalk up Shank's lost arm to an extremely rare/powerful sea monster, but unfortunately Luffy beat the monster when he headed out to sea. It's a shame too because I feel like Shanks had to lose him arm for Luffy to show how strong the bond was between them and how important he thought Luffy was for the future. So, it seems like Oda left us one plot hole right from the beginning. Maybe he can say that Luffy beat the offspring of the sea monster and the real thing is now lurking in the New World. However, it would feel a little bit retconned. While Oda seems to have a large overarching storyline that he's following, I don't think he has all the details filled in yet. Unfortunately, from the way the story has evolved, I have to believe that Haki is an evolving concept rather than one that was planned from the beginning. I'd suspect that Oda wrote himself into a bit of a corner with all the logias and needed a way out, thus Haki. He already explicitly rolled Mantra up under the Haki umbrella. With the similarities between Haki and Rokushiki (and there are a ton), I think it's a fair theory to believe that Haki is one of the underlying principles of the martial art (like Chi to many eastern martial arts). However, it's just a theory for now and we won't get confirmation within the manga until the CP9 guys come back (and even then it may be inconclusive). And for the guys that quote Rayleigh's description of Haki as "a coat of armor", don't forget two pages later when he says its ability can be imbued into weapons (like the Kuja women) and fired at a distance. So it's clearly more than just a coat of armor. It can be used in multiple ways, and as an underlying force of energy (think Chi within Martial Arts, or The Force within Star Wars), it would explain a lot of the weird non-DF abilities that people have in One Piece. However, it wouldn't take away from the cool individual styles that fighters from all over the world have developed using the combination of muscle and haki. This has already been covered. He said its like an invisible coat of armor. Then he said right after that "Naturally, stronger armor also results in a more powerful attack", which is true. If you hit someone with something really hard, it hurts alot more than hitting someone with something soft. Shooting steel arrows (which is what Haki made them seem like) would do alot more damage than shooting a wooden one. Probably the most damning evidence against the "Rokushiki=Haki" fan fiction is that when Releigh was doing his entire explination, there wasn't even ONE call back to the CP9 and their abilities. Oda made sure to say that Mantra in Skypeia was Haki. He was sure to say that the Kuja used Haki. He was sure to say that Sentomaru used Haki. All these call backs to previous uses of Haki, but none of the CP9. I wonder why.
because he chose the strongest examples that would leave the biggest impression Enel showed the biggest extreme of Observation haki, Sentoumaru showed the best example of Armament and the Kuja pirates showed Armament on weapons
plus those are the examples Luffy is most likely to immediately think of
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On December 12 2012 04:01 Forikorder wrote:Show nested quote +On December 12 2012 03:47 Sentenal wrote:On December 12 2012 03:31 RenSC2 wrote:On December 12 2012 02:33 vndestiny wrote:On December 12 2012 00:50 Fleshcut wrote:On December 12 2012 00:41 Sableyeah wrote:
Shanks loosing his arm has always bothered me but at least he's still one of the strongest. Maybe it's just that his crew is very strong. Nope, Shanks himself is very very strong. It's known that he fought Mihawk many times who is considered the strongest swordsman and he crossed swords with Whitebeard which led to a split sky. It's safe to say that Shanks is really strong and it's also bugging me that he lost his arm to a shark but I try to convince myself that he... a) ...wasn't strong back then (which would be weird though). b) ...did it on purpose to teach Luffy a lesson about sacrifices for friends or something. Yeah Shanks was not so strong back then. That incident with Luffy was not too far from when Shank was still a boy on Roger ship. However after the encounter with Luffy, Shanks' strength has been growing exponentially I think. The problem with that theory is that Shanks already had the scar over his eye from Blackbeard. Which means that Shanks was already battling Whitebeard's crew at the time. Possibly it happened while he was still a part of Roger's crew, but he doesn't have the scar yet in Buggy's flashbacks to Roger's ship in chapter 19. Also, the conversation between Shanks and Whitebeard indicated that Blackbeard was secretly very strong because he was able to wound Shanks when he wasn't being careless. Essentially, Shanks was saying that he was already pretty damn powerful when it happened and the encounter with Luffy didn't happen until later. I would chalk up Shank's lost arm to an extremely rare/powerful sea monster, but unfortunately Luffy beat the monster when he headed out to sea. It's a shame too because I feel like Shanks had to lose him arm for Luffy to show how strong the bond was between them and how important he thought Luffy was for the future. So, it seems like Oda left us one plot hole right from the beginning. Maybe he can say that Luffy beat the offspring of the sea monster and the real thing is now lurking in the New World. However, it would feel a little bit retconned. While Oda seems to have a large overarching storyline that he's following, I don't think he has all the details filled in yet. Unfortunately, from the way the story has evolved, I have to believe that Haki is an evolving concept rather than one that was planned from the beginning. I'd suspect that Oda wrote himself into a bit of a corner with all the logias and needed a way out, thus Haki. He already explicitly rolled Mantra up under the Haki umbrella. With the similarities between Haki and Rokushiki (and there are a ton), I think it's a fair theory to believe that Haki is one of the underlying principles of the martial art (like Chi to many eastern martial arts). However, it's just a theory for now and we won't get confirmation within the manga until the CP9 guys come back (and even then it may be inconclusive). And for the guys that quote Rayleigh's description of Haki as "a coat of armor", don't forget two pages later when he says its ability can be imbued into weapons (like the Kuja women) and fired at a distance. So it's clearly more than just a coat of armor. It can be used in multiple ways, and as an underlying force of energy (think Chi within Martial Arts, or The Force within Star Wars), it would explain a lot of the weird non-DF abilities that people have in One Piece. However, it wouldn't take away from the cool individual styles that fighters from all over the world have developed using the combination of muscle and haki. This has already been covered. He said its like an invisible coat of armor. Then he said right after that "Naturally, stronger armor also results in a more powerful attack", which is true. If you hit someone with something really hard, it hurts alot more than hitting someone with something soft. Shooting steel arrows (which is what Haki made them seem like) would do alot more damage than shooting a wooden one. Probably the most damning evidence against the "Rokushiki=Haki" fan fiction is that when Releigh was doing his entire explination, there wasn't even ONE call back to the CP9 and their abilities. Oda made sure to say that Mantra in Skypeia was Haki. He was sure to say that the Kuja used Haki. He was sure to say that Sentomaru used Haki. All these call backs to previous uses of Haki, but none of the CP9. I wonder why. I'm wrong so I'm gonna make up bullshit
Okay, why didn't you just say so?
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On December 12 2012 02:23 Forikorder wrote:Show nested quote +Rokushiki is a martial art and Haki is Ambition. Go to One Piece wiki page and look both of those up, they are both clearly explained. ya im sure the fan based wiki is mroe accurate then the author made story im drawing my examples from something supernatural has to power Rokoshiki or walking on air would be impossible i just assumed since Zoro said Tashigi reminds him of her so much
The wiki sites the chapters in the books as sources, so it is pretty accurate.
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On December 12 2012 03:47 Sentenal wrote:Show nested quote +On December 12 2012 03:31 RenSC2 wrote:On December 12 2012 02:33 vndestiny wrote:On December 12 2012 00:50 Fleshcut wrote:On December 12 2012 00:41 Sableyeah wrote:
Shanks loosing his arm has always bothered me but at least he's still one of the strongest. Maybe it's just that his crew is very strong. Nope, Shanks himself is very very strong. It's known that he fought Mihawk many times who is considered the strongest swordsman and he crossed swords with Whitebeard which led to a split sky. It's safe to say that Shanks is really strong and it's also bugging me that he lost his arm to a shark but I try to convince myself that he... a) ...wasn't strong back then (which would be weird though). b) ...did it on purpose to teach Luffy a lesson about sacrifices for friends or something. Yeah Shanks was not so strong back then. That incident with Luffy was not too far from when Shank was still a boy on Roger ship. However after the encounter with Luffy, Shanks' strength has been growing exponentially I think. The problem with that theory is that Shanks already had the scar over his eye from Blackbeard. Which means that Shanks was already battling Whitebeard's crew at the time. Possibly it happened while he was still a part of Roger's crew, but he doesn't have the scar yet in Buggy's flashbacks to Roger's ship in chapter 19. Also, the conversation between Shanks and Whitebeard indicated that Blackbeard was secretly very strong because he was able to wound Shanks when he wasn't being careless. Essentially, Shanks was saying that he was already pretty damn powerful when it happened and the encounter with Luffy didn't happen until later. I would chalk up Shank's lost arm to an extremely rare/powerful sea monster, but unfortunately Luffy beat the monster when he headed out to sea. It's a shame too because I feel like Shanks had to lose him arm for Luffy to show how strong the bond was between them and how important he thought Luffy was for the future. So, it seems like Oda left us one plot hole right from the beginning. Maybe he can say that Luffy beat the offspring of the sea monster and the real thing is now lurking in the New World. However, it would feel a little bit retconned. While Oda seems to have a large overarching storyline that he's following, I don't think he has all the details filled in yet. Unfortunately, from the way the story has evolved, I have to believe that Haki is an evolving concept rather than one that was planned from the beginning. I'd suspect that Oda wrote himself into a bit of a corner with all the logias and needed a way out, thus Haki. He already explicitly rolled Mantra up under the Haki umbrella. With the similarities between Haki and Rokushiki (and there are a ton), I think it's a fair theory to believe that Haki is one of the underlying principles of the martial art (like Chi to many eastern martial arts). However, it's just a theory for now and we won't get confirmation within the manga until the CP9 guys come back (and even then it may be inconclusive). And for the guys that quote Rayleigh's description of Haki as "a coat of armor", don't forget two pages later when he says its ability can be imbued into weapons (like the Kuja women) and fired at a distance. So it's clearly more than just a coat of armor. It can be used in multiple ways, and as an underlying force of energy (think Chi within Martial Arts, or The Force within Star Wars), it would explain a lot of the weird non-DF abilities that people have in One Piece. However, it wouldn't take away from the cool individual styles that fighters from all over the world have developed using the combination of muscle and haki. This has already been covered. He said its like an invisible coat of armor. Then he said right after that "Naturally, stronger armor also results in a more powerful attack", which is true. If you hit someone with something really hard, it hurts alot more than hitting someone with something soft. Shooting steel arrows (which is what Haki made them seem like) would do alot more damage than shooting a wooden one. Probably the most damning evidence against the "Rokushiki=Haki" fan fiction is that when Releigh was doing his entire explination, there wasn't even ONE call back to the CP9 and their abilities. Oda made sure to say that Mantra in Skypeia was Haki. He was sure to say that the Kuja used Haki. He was sure to say that Sentomaru used Haki. All these call backs to previous uses of Haki, but none of the CP9. I wonder why.
The point of mentioning the arrows is to show that Haki is a force that can be applied to other things and even be sent off into the distance. It's not just a shield of armor that covers your body or even a single point. It can be used in multiple ways.
As for your damning evidence, perhaps two examples of each haki type made his point that Haki was being used everywhere and he didn't feel the need to waste 10 panels to mention CP9 or Garp smacking rubber Luffy when he was a kid and having it hurt. Or are you going to claim that Garp didn't use Haki because it wasn't explicitly mentioned right there? Luffy also says "I've seen this haki in various places" + Show Spoiler +, indicating that there are many examples of it.
As I said, right now it's just a theory that Rokushiki uses haki. However, if it doesn't use Haki, then what does it use? Really strong muscles? Remember kids, flex your really strong muscles and your arm can stop swords: + Show Spoiler + Or soften up your body and you can dodge everything: + Show Spoiler + Nevermind that you can drop a piece of paper and still easily punch it in midair. Many of the Rokushiki abilities only make sense with Haki (CoA and CoO), hence the theory. We'll just have to wait and see how it plays out when CP9 makes their return. Or someone could send in a question to Oda and see what he has to say about it.
Anyways, since it is still just a theory, I don't really want to clog this thread up any more arguing back and forth. So I'm done on this topic until some new evidence comes to light.
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On December 12 2012 04:25 RenSC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 12 2012 03:47 Sentenal wrote:On December 12 2012 03:31 RenSC2 wrote:On December 12 2012 02:33 vndestiny wrote:On December 12 2012 00:50 Fleshcut wrote:On December 12 2012 00:41 Sableyeah wrote:
Shanks loosing his arm has always bothered me but at least he's still one of the strongest. Maybe it's just that his crew is very strong. Nope, Shanks himself is very very strong. It's known that he fought Mihawk many times who is considered the strongest swordsman and he crossed swords with Whitebeard which led to a split sky. It's safe to say that Shanks is really strong and it's also bugging me that he lost his arm to a shark but I try to convince myself that he... a) ...wasn't strong back then (which would be weird though). b) ...did it on purpose to teach Luffy a lesson about sacrifices for friends or something. Yeah Shanks was not so strong back then. That incident with Luffy was not too far from when Shank was still a boy on Roger ship. However after the encounter with Luffy, Shanks' strength has been growing exponentially I think. The problem with that theory is that Shanks already had the scar over his eye from Blackbeard. Which means that Shanks was already battling Whitebeard's crew at the time. Possibly it happened while he was still a part of Roger's crew, but he doesn't have the scar yet in Buggy's flashbacks to Roger's ship in chapter 19. Also, the conversation between Shanks and Whitebeard indicated that Blackbeard was secretly very strong because he was able to wound Shanks when he wasn't being careless. Essentially, Shanks was saying that he was already pretty damn powerful when it happened and the encounter with Luffy didn't happen until later. I would chalk up Shank's lost arm to an extremely rare/powerful sea monster, but unfortunately Luffy beat the monster when he headed out to sea. It's a shame too because I feel like Shanks had to lose him arm for Luffy to show how strong the bond was between them and how important he thought Luffy was for the future. So, it seems like Oda left us one plot hole right from the beginning. Maybe he can say that Luffy beat the offspring of the sea monster and the real thing is now lurking in the New World. However, it would feel a little bit retconned. While Oda seems to have a large overarching storyline that he's following, I don't think he has all the details filled in yet. Unfortunately, from the way the story has evolved, I have to believe that Haki is an evolving concept rather than one that was planned from the beginning. I'd suspect that Oda wrote himself into a bit of a corner with all the logias and needed a way out, thus Haki. He already explicitly rolled Mantra up under the Haki umbrella. With the similarities between Haki and Rokushiki (and there are a ton), I think it's a fair theory to believe that Haki is one of the underlying principles of the martial art (like Chi to many eastern martial arts). However, it's just a theory for now and we won't get confirmation within the manga until the CP9 guys come back (and even then it may be inconclusive). And for the guys that quote Rayleigh's description of Haki as "a coat of armor", don't forget two pages later when he says its ability can be imbued into weapons (like the Kuja women) and fired at a distance. So it's clearly more than just a coat of armor. It can be used in multiple ways, and as an underlying force of energy (think Chi within Martial Arts, or The Force within Star Wars), it would explain a lot of the weird non-DF abilities that people have in One Piece. However, it wouldn't take away from the cool individual styles that fighters from all over the world have developed using the combination of muscle and haki. This has already been covered. He said its like an invisible coat of armor. Then he said right after that "Naturally, stronger armor also results in a more powerful attack", which is true. If you hit someone with something really hard, it hurts alot more than hitting someone with something soft. Shooting steel arrows (which is what Haki made them seem like) would do alot more damage than shooting a wooden one. Probably the most damning evidence against the "Rokushiki=Haki" fan fiction is that when Releigh was doing his entire explination, there wasn't even ONE call back to the CP9 and their abilities. Oda made sure to say that Mantra in Skypeia was Haki. He was sure to say that the Kuja used Haki. He was sure to say that Sentomaru used Haki. All these call backs to previous uses of Haki, but none of the CP9. I wonder why. The point of mentioning the arrows is to show that Haki is a force that can be applied to other things and even be sent off into the distance. It's not just a shield of armor that covers your body or even a single point. It can be used in multiple ways. As for your damning evidence, perhaps two examples of each haki type made his point that Haki was being used everywhere and he didn't feel the need to waste 10 panels to mention CP9 or Garp smacking rubber Luffy when he was a kid and having it hurt. Or are you going to claim that Garp didn't use Haki because it wasn't explicitly mentioned right there? Luffy also says "I've seen this haki in various places" + Show Spoiler +, indicating that there are many examples of it. As I said, right now it's just a theory that Rokushiki uses haki. However, if it doesn't use Haki, then what does it use? Really strong muscles? Remember kids, flex your really strong muscles and your arm can stop swords: + Show Spoiler + Or soften up your body and you can dodge everything: + Show Spoiler + Nevermind that you can drop a piece of paper and still easily punch it in midair. Many of the Rokushiki abilities only make sense with Haki (CoA and CoO), hence the theory. We'll just have to wait and see how it plays out when CP9 makes their return. Or someone could send in a question to Oda and see what he has to say about it. Anyways, since it is still just a theory, I don't really want to clog this thread up any more arguing back and forth. So I'm done on this topic until some new evidence comes to light.
Yes? This is shounen manga, what do you expect? Shit like that happens all the time in manga/anime. You have Nagare Ryoma getting stabbed by a knife in the chest in Getter Robo Go, flexing his muscles and breaking the blade, you have all sorts of insane shit happening in DBZ (all of which explained with what is essentially Chi [btw Chi isn't Haki]). Do I need to go on? Welcome to manga.
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On December 12 2012 04:37 Sentenal wrote:Show nested quote +On December 12 2012 04:25 RenSC2 wrote:On December 12 2012 03:47 Sentenal wrote:On December 12 2012 03:31 RenSC2 wrote:On December 12 2012 02:33 vndestiny wrote:On December 12 2012 00:50 Fleshcut wrote:On December 12 2012 00:41 Sableyeah wrote:
Shanks loosing his arm has always bothered me but at least he's still one of the strongest. Maybe it's just that his crew is very strong. Nope, Shanks himself is very very strong. It's known that he fought Mihawk many times who is considered the strongest swordsman and he crossed swords with Whitebeard which led to a split sky. It's safe to say that Shanks is really strong and it's also bugging me that he lost his arm to a shark but I try to convince myself that he... a) ...wasn't strong back then (which would be weird though). b) ...did it on purpose to teach Luffy a lesson about sacrifices for friends or something. Yeah Shanks was not so strong back then. That incident with Luffy was not too far from when Shank was still a boy on Roger ship. However after the encounter with Luffy, Shanks' strength has been growing exponentially I think. The problem with that theory is that Shanks already had the scar over his eye from Blackbeard. Which means that Shanks was already battling Whitebeard's crew at the time. Possibly it happened while he was still a part of Roger's crew, but he doesn't have the scar yet in Buggy's flashbacks to Roger's ship in chapter 19. Also, the conversation between Shanks and Whitebeard indicated that Blackbeard was secretly very strong because he was able to wound Shanks when he wasn't being careless. Essentially, Shanks was saying that he was already pretty damn powerful when it happened and the encounter with Luffy didn't happen until later. I would chalk up Shank's lost arm to an extremely rare/powerful sea monster, but unfortunately Luffy beat the monster when he headed out to sea. It's a shame too because I feel like Shanks had to lose him arm for Luffy to show how strong the bond was between them and how important he thought Luffy was for the future. So, it seems like Oda left us one plot hole right from the beginning. Maybe he can say that Luffy beat the offspring of the sea monster and the real thing is now lurking in the New World. However, it would feel a little bit retconned. While Oda seems to have a large overarching storyline that he's following, I don't think he has all the details filled in yet. Unfortunately, from the way the story has evolved, I have to believe that Haki is an evolving concept rather than one that was planned from the beginning. I'd suspect that Oda wrote himself into a bit of a corner with all the logias and needed a way out, thus Haki. He already explicitly rolled Mantra up under the Haki umbrella. With the similarities between Haki and Rokushiki (and there are a ton), I think it's a fair theory to believe that Haki is one of the underlying principles of the martial art (like Chi to many eastern martial arts). However, it's just a theory for now and we won't get confirmation within the manga until the CP9 guys come back (and even then it may be inconclusive). And for the guys that quote Rayleigh's description of Haki as "a coat of armor", don't forget two pages later when he says its ability can be imbued into weapons (like the Kuja women) and fired at a distance. So it's clearly more than just a coat of armor. It can be used in multiple ways, and as an underlying force of energy (think Chi within Martial Arts, or The Force within Star Wars), it would explain a lot of the weird non-DF abilities that people have in One Piece. However, it wouldn't take away from the cool individual styles that fighters from all over the world have developed using the combination of muscle and haki. This has already been covered. He said its like an invisible coat of armor. Then he said right after that "Naturally, stronger armor also results in a more powerful attack", which is true. If you hit someone with something really hard, it hurts alot more than hitting someone with something soft. Shooting steel arrows (which is what Haki made them seem like) would do alot more damage than shooting a wooden one. Probably the most damning evidence against the "Rokushiki=Haki" fan fiction is that when Releigh was doing his entire explination, there wasn't even ONE call back to the CP9 and their abilities. Oda made sure to say that Mantra in Skypeia was Haki. He was sure to say that the Kuja used Haki. He was sure to say that Sentomaru used Haki. All these call backs to previous uses of Haki, but none of the CP9. I wonder why. The point of mentioning the arrows is to show that Haki is a force that can be applied to other things and even be sent off into the distance. It's not just a shield of armor that covers your body or even a single point. It can be used in multiple ways. As for your damning evidence, perhaps two examples of each haki type made his point that Haki was being used everywhere and he didn't feel the need to waste 10 panels to mention CP9 or Garp smacking rubber Luffy when he was a kid and having it hurt. Or are you going to claim that Garp didn't use Haki because it wasn't explicitly mentioned right there? Luffy also says "I've seen this haki in various places" + Show Spoiler +, indicating that there are many examples of it. As I said, right now it's just a theory that Rokushiki uses haki. However, if it doesn't use Haki, then what does it use? Really strong muscles? Remember kids, flex your really strong muscles and your arm can stop swords: + Show Spoiler + Or soften up your body and you can dodge everything: + Show Spoiler + Nevermind that you can drop a piece of paper and still easily punch it in midair. Many of the Rokushiki abilities only make sense with Haki (CoA and CoO), hence the theory. We'll just have to wait and see how it plays out when CP9 makes their return. Or someone could send in a question to Oda and see what he has to say about it. Anyways, since it is still just a theory, I don't really want to clog this thread up any more arguing back and forth. So I'm done on this topic until some new evidence comes to light. Yes? This is shounen manga, what do you expect? Shit like that happens all the time in manga/anime. You have Nagare Ryoma getting stabbed by a knife in the chest in Getter Robo Go, flexing his muscles and breaking the blade, you have all sorts of insane shit happening in DBZ (all of which explained with what is essentially Chi [btw Chi isn't Haki]). Do I need to go on? Welcome to manga.
Rayleigh said when explaining Haki that Chi is one of its names
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On December 12 2012 04:44 Forikorder wrote:Show nested quote +On December 12 2012 04:37 Sentenal wrote:On December 12 2012 04:25 RenSC2 wrote:On December 12 2012 03:47 Sentenal wrote:On December 12 2012 03:31 RenSC2 wrote:On December 12 2012 02:33 vndestiny wrote:On December 12 2012 00:50 Fleshcut wrote:On December 12 2012 00:41 Sableyeah wrote:
Shanks loosing his arm has always bothered me but at least he's still one of the strongest. Maybe it's just that his crew is very strong. Nope, Shanks himself is very very strong. It's known that he fought Mihawk many times who is considered the strongest swordsman and he crossed swords with Whitebeard which led to a split sky. It's safe to say that Shanks is really strong and it's also bugging me that he lost his arm to a shark but I try to convince myself that he... a) ...wasn't strong back then (which would be weird though). b) ...did it on purpose to teach Luffy a lesson about sacrifices for friends or something. Yeah Shanks was not so strong back then. That incident with Luffy was not too far from when Shank was still a boy on Roger ship. However after the encounter with Luffy, Shanks' strength has been growing exponentially I think. The problem with that theory is that Shanks already had the scar over his eye from Blackbeard. Which means that Shanks was already battling Whitebeard's crew at the time. Possibly it happened while he was still a part of Roger's crew, but he doesn't have the scar yet in Buggy's flashbacks to Roger's ship in chapter 19. Also, the conversation between Shanks and Whitebeard indicated that Blackbeard was secretly very strong because he was able to wound Shanks when he wasn't being careless. Essentially, Shanks was saying that he was already pretty damn powerful when it happened and the encounter with Luffy didn't happen until later. I would chalk up Shank's lost arm to an extremely rare/powerful sea monster, but unfortunately Luffy beat the monster when he headed out to sea. It's a shame too because I feel like Shanks had to lose him arm for Luffy to show how strong the bond was between them and how important he thought Luffy was for the future. So, it seems like Oda left us one plot hole right from the beginning. Maybe he can say that Luffy beat the offspring of the sea monster and the real thing is now lurking in the New World. However, it would feel a little bit retconned. While Oda seems to have a large overarching storyline that he's following, I don't think he has all the details filled in yet. Unfortunately, from the way the story has evolved, I have to believe that Haki is an evolving concept rather than one that was planned from the beginning. I'd suspect that Oda wrote himself into a bit of a corner with all the logias and needed a way out, thus Haki. He already explicitly rolled Mantra up under the Haki umbrella. With the similarities between Haki and Rokushiki (and there are a ton), I think it's a fair theory to believe that Haki is one of the underlying principles of the martial art (like Chi to many eastern martial arts). However, it's just a theory for now and we won't get confirmation within the manga until the CP9 guys come back (and even then it may be inconclusive). And for the guys that quote Rayleigh's description of Haki as "a coat of armor", don't forget two pages later when he says its ability can be imbued into weapons (like the Kuja women) and fired at a distance. So it's clearly more than just a coat of armor. It can be used in multiple ways, and as an underlying force of energy (think Chi within Martial Arts, or The Force within Star Wars), it would explain a lot of the weird non-DF abilities that people have in One Piece. However, it wouldn't take away from the cool individual styles that fighters from all over the world have developed using the combination of muscle and haki. This has already been covered. He said its like an invisible coat of armor. Then he said right after that "Naturally, stronger armor also results in a more powerful attack", which is true. If you hit someone with something really hard, it hurts alot more than hitting someone with something soft. Shooting steel arrows (which is what Haki made them seem like) would do alot more damage than shooting a wooden one. Probably the most damning evidence against the "Rokushiki=Haki" fan fiction is that when Releigh was doing his entire explination, there wasn't even ONE call back to the CP9 and their abilities. Oda made sure to say that Mantra in Skypeia was Haki. He was sure to say that the Kuja used Haki. He was sure to say that Sentomaru used Haki. All these call backs to previous uses of Haki, but none of the CP9. I wonder why. The point of mentioning the arrows is to show that Haki is a force that can be applied to other things and even be sent off into the distance. It's not just a shield of armor that covers your body or even a single point. It can be used in multiple ways. As for your damning evidence, perhaps two examples of each haki type made his point that Haki was being used everywhere and he didn't feel the need to waste 10 panels to mention CP9 or Garp smacking rubber Luffy when he was a kid and having it hurt. Or are you going to claim that Garp didn't use Haki because it wasn't explicitly mentioned right there? Luffy also says "I've seen this haki in various places" + Show Spoiler +, indicating that there are many examples of it. As I said, right now it's just a theory that Rokushiki uses haki. However, if it doesn't use Haki, then what does it use? Really strong muscles? Remember kids, flex your really strong muscles and your arm can stop swords: + Show Spoiler + Or soften up your body and you can dodge everything: + Show Spoiler + Nevermind that you can drop a piece of paper and still easily punch it in midair. Many of the Rokushiki abilities only make sense with Haki (CoA and CoO), hence the theory. We'll just have to wait and see how it plays out when CP9 makes their return. Or someone could send in a question to Oda and see what he has to say about it. Anyways, since it is still just a theory, I don't really want to clog this thread up any more arguing back and forth. So I'm done on this topic until some new evidence comes to light. Yes? This is shounen manga, what do you expect? Shit like that happens all the time in manga/anime. You have Nagare Ryoma getting stabbed by a knife in the chest in Getter Robo Go, flexing his muscles and breaking the blade, you have all sorts of insane shit happening in DBZ (all of which explained with what is essentially Chi [btw Chi isn't Haki]). Do I need to go on? Welcome to manga. Rayleigh said when explaining Haki that Chi is one of its names
No he didn't. What did I tell you about lying?
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Here we go again..........
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On December 11 2012 12:08 RBKeys wrote:
Just started reading this manga yesterday (when I should have been studying for finals). Already on chapter 140 and so far it's awesome!
You're in luck cause this manga stays awesome (:
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okay he didnt specifically say alcohol but spirit is a type of alcohol and is pretty interchangable with alcohol
haki is powered by alcohol
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can you guys stop discussing this
just...drop it?
also, RBKeys - you're in for one hell of a ride, enjoy it, One Piece only gets better as it goes on
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Forik are you seriously retarded in the head? After 50 pages of bs that you post, you should realize that your comments are just a bunch of dump, and you should realize to just stop trolling/ being a retarded 5 year old.
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EPT
