[Manga] One Piece - Page 224

On October 19 2012 12:13 RebelSlayer wrote:
I may have been slightly wrong with my all dragons being kids theory.

On October 19 2012 12:05 Forikorder wrote:

Luffy could stretch immediately upon eating the gum gum fruit, the things he had to train was his aim at using his pistol

take croc for instance, instantly upon eating the sand sand fruit he could turn to sand and suck up moisture but it took alot of training to make his sand blade and the tornado thing

so Momosuke should isntantly know how to transform (just like square nose of C9 knew how to transform and the chick knew how to create bubbles)

On October 19 2012 20:09 bittman wrote:


Well the Crocodile thing you have no evidence on.
Luffy's natural state changed, he doesn't turn this "on" and "off".
CP9 are a team of highly trained professionals who have mastered their body. If anyone is ready to adapt so quickly it would be someone like them.

Momosuke is a young child on the verge of starvation who is confused about what's happened. Get some food in him, explain to him that he's a zoan and he'll probably understand what he needs to do from there.

Maybe...having him stuck as a dragon is interesting though. Could play into a second, or later, arc. Could genuinely give the samurai a reason to travel with the strawhats for a moment.

On October 19 2012 20:09 bittman wrote:


Well the Crocodile thing you have no evidence on.
Luffy's natural state changed, he doesn't turn this "on" and "off".
CP9 are a team of highly trained professionals who have mastered their body. If anyone is ready to adapt so quickly it would be someone like them.

Momosuke is a young child on the verge of starvation who is confused about what's happened. Get some food in him, explain to him that he's a zoan and he'll probably understand what he needs to do from there.

Maybe...having him stuck as a dragon is interesting though. Could play into a second, or later, arc. Could genuinely give the samurai a reason to travel with the strawhats for a moment.

also blackbeard made an earthquake like 10 seconds after getting the fruit

On October 20 2012 01:16 Eshra wrote:


That's a different scenario. Blackbeard already had a fruit, meaning he has some experience and could very well master another fruit much faster.

On October 20 2012 13:48 17Sphynx17 wrote:
Wait, isn't not about being able to present the power of the DF, it is about being able to use it properly right?

Not everyone is able to immediately use it properly, but they can use it. There is a difference there. Luffy also had problems with using his DF. Remember his arms didn't recoil back in the beginning everytime he tried to stretch out. This is I think at least a showing of not being able to use it properly (not just with aiming or power delivery).

We don't know why momonosuke still can't transform into the human hybrid dragon form. Maybe it is because of the failure of the DF as was mentioned or just that he isn't aware that he is capable of such.

On October 20 2012 13:57 Forikorder wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +
Luffys is different though, his DF turns his body into rubby, thats all it does, a side effect of being rubber is that he can stretch, thats the mastery croc talked about finding side effects that you can abuse

Momosuke is a Zoan type he has 3 forms he can transform between at will, not being able to switch between forms is like Luffy being unable to stretch or Ace forgetting how to turn into fire it simply doesnt happen we have never EVER seen a single DF user unable to use part of there ability, every single logia type has attacks pass through them (aside from special attacks) every single Zoan transforms effortlessly we have never even heard a DF user say anything about having trouble figuring out how to transform (the closest is square nose accidently going full giraffe)

theres simply not the tiniest scrap of evidence that saids that Momosuke should be having trouble transforming, that combined with the fruit being a failure means its almsot certain taht its a failure because he cant transform

and what other way could it be a failure? hes a dragon, he can fly unless he cant breathe fire hes a fully functional dragon so the only way the fruit could be a failure is if he cant transform

On October 20 2012 14:15 17Sphynx17 wrote:


Actually, my example of how Luffy extended but not revert to original length would be a good sample I believe. Basically he doesn't completely master the "off" switch yet or "revert" switch yet.

So it is not an issue of Ace forgetting how to turn to fire but rather as being unable to switch off "flame mode". (I think to this extent would be a good comparison)

Regarding CP9, these guys have training and may well be in fact verse enough to the differences in Zoan, Paramecia and Logia type fruits based on teachings to Cypher Pol through the government. Plus they are trained, so I think that counts for something when it comes to utilizing the fruit at least.

We haven't also seen the complete backstory of Chopper yet have we? As to how it all started with him from Reindeer to doctor? Was it shown that after eating he was already versed in changing forms or was there at least a semblance of timeskip to allow him to "train" the use of his DF so he can be more "human". I don't recall the manga chapters so I would need a bit of help here.

I reserve judgement after the manga chapters get out though and explain it some more but I am open to discussion of our ideas. I don't think it does any harm when we speculate.

For me though, I think the failure is not about transformation but rather that since it was meant for military research, they were aiming for a dragon more along the lines of a western dragon (like the one the strawhats fought) so it was considered a failure from a military standpoint. But that doesn't mean it doesn't work.

Because it monosuke cannot turn into a human hybrid form, it would sad for monosuke and his dad which (unless its a plot point to push that will lead the story to vegapunk to look for a cure) I don't see is happening.

On October 20 2012 14:23 Forikorder wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +
as for finding it sad you forget taht the strawhats jsut so happen to have the only doctor in existance that has carefully studied the Zoan fruits and has a drug that actually improves its abilities so if anyone can make Momosuke a kid again its Chopper

Ace doesnt have a "non-fire" mode, you dont seem to understand Logias they dont switch states its completely automatic at any point in time if there attacked the attack slips through (aside from specific scenarios like Haki) there is no on or off switch

and once again Luffys fruit and zoan fruits are different, the gum gum fruit only makes his body rubber, him stretching is bonus ability that can be learnt like Brooks soul travel thing all the attacks luffy does are bonus abilities not basic ability, his fruit does not have any basic abilities unlike zoan fruits who have the basic ability of transforming

the only time weve seen anyone have trouble transforming is the CP9 guy who went full giraffe and Chopper after 2 rumble balls

and i dont think we ever found out how Chopper ate the human human fruit, but he was a normal reindeer when he ate it and could still transform so obviously it has nothing to do with intelligence

On October 20 2012 14:41 17Sphynx17 wrote:


Actually you don't get what I am saying about the Logias. If they are really always in that state as you say, then Ace and esp. Akainu cannot be on any surface flammable like ships and wooden floors. If there is no form of "off switch" for Logia's in terms of being in "normal" mode, then these guys are basically going to burn through everything and not even people can touch them or pat them on the back during drinking sessions.

As for intelligence, well, if the fruit is human human fruit, then maybe the author thought this would have made him human like with human based intelligence with human brain potential which negates whether he had a deer brain previously. I think that counts for something at least.

that's my take at least

I cannot understand how you can keep saying that bs forikorder, since there is absolutely no evidence of what happens when a child eats a ZOAN type fruit. As another pointed out, he is a kid, so lack of control of your body is evident. You keep mentioning people eating zoan fruits, but they are all adults and highly trained individuals, how on earth do you think you can compare them with a starving kid?

Plus, the guard said the fruit was supposedly damaged, which again does not support your hypothesis that this is inconsistent with the OP universe.

On October 19 2012 23:39 Forikorder wrote:
also dont you think its odd that hes in full dragon mode without knowing how to transform?
hard to say but i dont think that square nose instantly went full giraffe when he ate

also blackbeard made an earthquake like 10 seconds after getting the fruit

also i just noticed something, the skeleton that brooks shadow was attached to (well the OTHEr skeleton on morias island) was also from Wano, used fire when he fought and had something to dow tih dragons, maybe a distant relative?