Movie Discussion! - Page 349

although it's an interesting point that if she drew upon BlueBook's search engine - think about how humans act on the internet and the implications of that on her internal thought process. Especially being a "she."

It seems like parts were heavily influenced by Plato's Cave allegory. Not just in the plot and scenery (underground bunker), but even the visuals like the walking shadows at the end of the film.

It really is a bit daunting to realize how much can be learned about a person merely from their internet history. Think about how well Ads (amazon in particular) are marketed towards us currently. Then think about how well a human-looking AI could be tailored to a person's likes and attributes. A "person" designed to literally be everything you could ever want. Physically, emotionally, intellectually synced to you. What if the only thing keeping you interested in humans was the fact that the person you are with IS human? How long could you keep hold of this feeling? How could you resist the allure of this "machine"? Why would you want to? Think about all the lonely people out there, and how easy it would be to simply buy a robot to be their perfect life partner. ...Maybe this is how we finally solve the population crisis. This is all assuming that each AI's goal is to be a person's companion. The AIs could use people just like Ava used Caleb. How hard is it to resist someone that literally knows everything about you? The internet is scary.

@Allegory of the Cave reference. That's a good point, I never looked at it from that perspective. I just perceived it as a prisoner doing everything within their power to gain their freedom. A human prisoner will tell their parole comity anything the comity needs to hear so the prisoner can be free.

Caleb wasn't a good guy, and I think it was appropriate for Ava to leave him there. He'll probably escape and I don't think she intended for him to die, or she could've easily killed him on her own. Caleb wasn't motivated out of a desire to serve a fellow sentient being, who was essentially being tortured. He was motivated out of romance and self-interest, as probably most of us are. Think of it this way: would Caleb have been as motivated if she hadn't played the role of a potential girlfriend? Was Caleb interested in 'freeing' Kyoko or the other tortured AIs? I don't think so. It doesn't mean he's a bad guy, but I don't think you'd call him good.

It's telling that so much of the audience (myself included) wanted them to end up together and for them to receive a happy, romantic ending. We're not bad for wanting that, but we've been programmed to think that way through millions of tiny social interactions, as Nathan talks about (when he's talking about digging black chicks.) If the film goes down that route, then Ava has just traded Nathan's box for Caleb's box. One is certainly kinder, but neither provide the absolute freedom for which she yearns.

Because of that, Caleb isn't truly empathizing with her either (just as she doesn't with him.) He doesn't have nightmares about her trapped condition, he has fantasies about them being together.

I think another larger point to be made about the movie is that it's most likely a feminist movie, but like the vast majority of movies, even those that promote feminism, the protagonist is a straight, white male. It's like To Kill a Mockingbird. Sure, it's about racism and bigotry being evil, but structurally the hero is still a white guy and all the black characters are passive caricatures. The same is true in this movie, until the very end when Ava takes control of her own destiny and becomes the protagonist.

So why is Nathan drinking so much? Serious question. I was wondering why Caleb never asked him during their Q&A sessions.

I don't think Ava cared at all whether Caleb was good or bad. Her motivation was to escape and survive by using any and all means possible to achieve that, he was just a tool for her. Also not calling Caleb a good guy because his motive for saving her and only her wasn't altruistic seems a bit harsh. If that's the requirement for being good then i don't think good people exist at all.

I thought it was just to add to the alpha male image that Nathan had.

Plenty of those people exist. Look at the Underground Railroad and anyone who helped with it. They didn't do it because they were expecting action in return.

I think my explanation was poor, sorry. What i mean is that judging someone by one thing they do seems a bit silly and there exist no one whose all decisions in life were altruistic. What if someone who helped the Underground Railroad was a murderer but now decided to help out of good will? Is he a good person? I guess i'll spoiler this but this is getting out of hand :D

Fair point. I guess it'd be better to say from Ava's perspective, he never proved himself to be good.

I got the feeling Garland wanted to expose both the douchebro (Nathan) type and white knight (Caleb) type.

1h 10min when he starts doubting if he's human, hahahaha i would do the same thing and date the toaster at the same time, wow! Then he asks if he sculped her face from his pornographyprofile hahahahaha how awesome is that! i Want one larry page, pls give me a robocilia!

The conclusion of this for me was that he drank because he was affected by the fact that his creations were suffering/wanted freedom - he obviously loved them. So it was a coping mechanism.