On June 04 2013 02:44 SCST wrote: I find myself constantly asking: where are the righteous characters that would rather die than become corrupt or a-moral? Where are the people that, as reflected in our own lives, believe in peace, kindness, honor and love? It turns out that there really aren't any in Martin's work. These characters are either grossly under-represented or used for sensationalist fodder by being killed off.
Bran and his group, Jon Snow, Sam, Maester Aemon, Blackfish, Deanarys, Missandei, Jorah Mormont, Barriston Selmy, Arya, Sansa, Loras Tyrell, Gendry, are just those I could come up with in 1 minute. Probably a lot more
On June 04 2013 02:44 SCST wrote: I find myself constantly asking: where are the righteous characters that would rather die than become corrupt or a-moral? Where are the people that, as reflected in our own lives, believe in peace, kindness, honor and love?
Probably all dead and/or powerless, like we just saw happen. 'Our own lives' don't comprise the same social class as the main characters of the show, so that's a shaky point to make too - and that's assuming such people really exist in the first place.
I'm thinking that Littlefinger won't be too happy to know that his love has been murdered. I think he will plot to revenge her, am I the only one seeing this?
On June 04 2013 02:48 Big J wrote: So, all hail to the new king in the north, right? (for as long as noone knows that Bran and Rickon are alive) + Show Spoiler +
I like Tyrion and I think he's the right guy to be in the Iron Throne but for the love of god, let Jon be the King in the North and rip apart every single Bolton and Frey alive... and Tywin. I have to wonder what really happens now. Westeros lives in peace until Dany comes with Dragons and burns them all? Because I don't see any other house besides of course, the Starks going to war against the Lannister. I don't see Stannis being a threat to Tywin to be completely honest...
In terms of progression, we're only halfway through the third book. There's still plenty left to the show, so buckle down.
Plus you're forgetting the Cthulhu worshiping Vikings camped out in the North, and the Wildlings.
Remember, GRRM is the master of surprize.
That's interesting. I thought this was the end of the book three and they said they would do a book per season. I just started reading AGOT and it has like 700 pages. How long is the third one? 1400 or something? True, forgot about the Wildlings but I don't see them getting pass the Wall either for whatever reason.. I think Jon was right. They don't discipline to command an attack but they have giant tho.
On June 04 2013 02:44 SCST wrote: I find myself constantly asking: where are the righteous characters that would rather die than become corrupt or a-moral? Where are the people that, as reflected in our own lives, believe in peace, kindness, honor and love? It turns out that there really aren't any in Martin's work. These characters are either grossly under-represented or used for sensationalist fodder by being killed off.
Bran and his group, Jon Snow, Sam, Maester Aemon, Blackfish, Deanarys, Missandei, Jorah Mormont, Barriston Selmy, Arya, Sansa, Loras Tyrell, Gendry, are just those I could come up with in 1 minute. Probably a lot more
Might wanna rethink Arya in that list lol, she has shown all the markings of a serious murderer in the making.
On June 04 2013 02:44 SCST wrote: I find myself constantly asking: where are the righteous characters that would rather die than become corrupt or a-moral? Where are the people that, as reflected in our own lives, believe in peace, kindness, honor and love? It turns out that there really aren't any in Martin's work. These characters are either grossly under-represented or used for sensationalist fodder by being killed off.
Bran and his group, Jon Snow, Sam, Maester Aemon, Blackfish, Deanarys, Missandei, Jorah Mormont, Barriston Selmy, Arya, Sansa, Loras Tyrell, Gendry, are just those I could come up with in 1 minute. Probably a lot more
On June 04 2013 02:44 SCST wrote: I find myself constantly asking: where are the righteous characters that would rather die than become corrupt or a-moral? Where are the people that, as reflected in our own lives, believe in peace, kindness, honor and love? It turns out that there really aren't any in Martin's work. These characters are either grossly under-represented or used for sensationalist fodder by being killed off.
Bran and his group, Jon Snow, Sam, Maester Aemon, Blackfish, Deanarys, Missandei, Jorah Mormont, Barriston Selmy, Arya, Sansa, Loras Tyrell, Gendry, are just those I could come up with in 1 minute. Probably a lot more
Jorah was a slave trader -.-.
You make it sound as if he was one for a living. He did that once. Still a honourable guy in my book, who made 1 big mistake. But was severly punished for that and eventually forgiven and reinstated by the kings council.
The more I was thinking about it last night, Robb was really stupid to let his guard down so much.
I mean they knew Frey was a dick, you'd have to be an idiot not to at least consider the possibility it was an elaborate setup.
Maybe you go through with it but you are super vigilant the whole time and notice things like them sealing the doors. You also instruct all your men to be on high alert at all times too.
Then again Robb was known for well being kinda stupid and short sighted.
On June 04 2013 02:59 True_Spike wrote: And it's not like I'm desensitised myself - I consider myself a very empathetic person.
We all grew up with books, TV and so on. It's a mechanism for coping against our own biology and it started developing before we understood death. I think it's complicated and different for all of us.
On June 04 2013 03:12 TheIlluminated wrote: I'm thinking that Littlefinger won't be too happy to know that his love has been murdered. I think he will plot to revenge her, am I the only one seeing this?
Would be so happy to see this.
I got this event spoilered by someone and knew it was going to happen in theory, though I didn't know how or when it's going to happen. Didn't even know wether it's going to happen in this season at all. That being said I had bad feelings about all this marriage thing but still didn't think it'd come so soon. I really expected something way later, so I was quite surprised to see them killed today. And yeah quite shocked as well
Ah damn, wanted to get something done today and all I've done for the last 2 hours is watch game of thrones and surf the web for the last 60 minutes because I can't concentrate
On June 03 2013 13:52 xjoehammerx wrote: I'm taking such sick sadistic pleasure in collecting all the tears from the rookies who didn't read the books and so didn't know this was coming. Soooo many people on other boards are saying shit like "I'm done; I won't watch anymore". I look at them like a crack dealer looks at a client who says he is quitting; yeah fucking right....they'll be back for another punch to the gut next week. Hahahaha
AMEN BROTHER :D:D:D I came here fishing for tasty tears
On June 04 2013 02:44 SCST wrote: I think a great deal of people are underestimating the prowess / understanding of many viewers who are criticizing the show. The gut reaction is to think "oh, they're just being mad and emotional because their favorite characters were killed", when it may be something a bit deeper. I've given some thought to the implications of the "Red Wedding" scene and come to realize that Game of Thrones is missing a pretty big, important theme for me. That being: moral righteousness and "the greater good".
Let me explain. . . almost all of the characters in Game of Thrones appear to be morally ambivalent in some way. And those characters who seem attracted to the paradigms of "good" (love, honor, peace, pleasure, kindness) are few and far between. Even with these few "good" individuals being placed in the story, they are not consistent and often make decisions that completely invalidate their supposed world view. That, or they are killed.
But why? On the surface this may seem like an insight into our own civilization - the idea that morality is really grey and that most people are ambivalent and self-serving. That's what I thought initially. And I admit it was an interesting theme. But after watching "The Red Wedding" I have changed my mind. Sure, I can agree that there are elements of humanity that are violent, selfish, power-seeking and morally reprehensible. And I'm fine with these themes being represented in stories. But the issue I have with Game of Thrones is that these elements dominate excessively . I find myself constantly asking: where are the righteous characters that would rather die than become corrupt or a-moral? Where are the people that, as reflected in our own lives, believe in peace, kindness, honor and love? It turns out that there really aren't any in Martin's work. These characters are either grossly under-represented or used for sensationalist fodder by being killed off.
The truth is, many of us in the audience do consider ourselves to be righteous, moral individuals. We want to relate to the characters in the story, not just observe a bunch of savages hacking each other's heads off. How can most of us relate to the morally ambivalent characters or the reprehensible one? If Martin's goal here is to create sensationalist environment with excessive violence, gore and drama then it makes sense that there so few "good guys". But I also feel it's cheap story-telling if this is the case. And if Martin's trying to send a message - that Game of Thrones is a reflection of the human condition and that the story is based somewhat in reality - then I'd argue he's not accurate whatsoever.
I don't think there's anything wrong with coming to this realization about Game of Thrones. It's not as outrageous as people seem to think to be turned off by having some of the few characters we could actually relate to (even slightly) massacred. Whether it was for sensationalism or as an attempt to indict most of humanity as being morally ambivalent and reprehensible (when most of humanity is not), both are valid reasons to turn away from the story.
I dunno in what world you live in, GoT is way closer to reality than all the other fantasy works in existence in regards to how humans actually think and behave.Also, I really fail to see how the show is about "a bunch of savages hacking each other's heads off", there's both "good" and "evil" in most characters, but they are neither this nor that, just like a random person you might encounter.
On June 04 2013 02:44 SCST wrote: I find myself constantly asking: where are the righteous characters that would rather die than become corrupt or a-moral? Where are the people that, as reflected in our own lives, believe in peace, kindness, honor and love? It turns out that there really aren't any in Martin's work. These characters are either grossly under-represented or used for sensationalist fodder by being killed off.
Bran and his group, Jon Snow, Sam, Maester Aemon, Blackfish, Deanarys, Missandei, Jorah Mormont, Barriston Selmy, Arya, Sansa, Loras Tyrell, Gendry, are just those I could come up with in 1 minute. Probably a lot more
And most of those dont fall in that category, except you interpret it very generously.
On June 04 2013 02:05 Saethwyr wrote: Surprised people are saying "peace-out I'm done with this show now" it did the opposite for me, I'm more enthralled and intrigued than ever before.
If I was as distressed as some of the people in those reaction videos I would stop watching as well. I genuinely felt sorry for sme of those (especially the last girl posted here that was crying) and wanted to hug them. But for some reason people seem to like suffering, I could just never understand this phenomenon myself. Also never understood why people watch horror films that gross them out. Oh well.
While plenty of people sit here and complement Martin because he was "bold" and "broke the mold" or whatever, we need to realize that this isn't the right way to tell a story, and that it is going to be a very polarizing move (and justly so). Part of what makes stories interesting is getting attached to characters, and when you kill off so many characters that we are attached to, then you run the risk of making your story less compelling (because really, who is actually attached to the truckload of characters we saw in the more recent books?). Killing off all of these characters will undoubtedly drive away some viewers, and you're arrogant if you think that these viewers are wrong by turning away from the series.
- Team Dany's fight at the gate was pretty awesome. Disappointed that they didn't bring Barristan Selmy along for the ride. But then I re-soured on the Yunkai storyline when they ended with all the soldiers surrounding our heroes then jumping to 'Oh, yea, they all decided they wanted to be on our side now.' If your going to do something that far-fetched, you have to show it to make it plausible.
- Jon Snow abandoning Ygritte is like the one plot development that I would never ever predict.
- Arya crushes every scene always.
Now on to the good stuff...
- Edmure's facial expressions through the whole episode were absolute gold.
- I came into the episode pretty confident that Robb was going to bite it at the wedding, but the early stuff with Walder and the beginning of the ceremony were so well written and acted that I was actively talking myself out of that prediction. Walder played it perfectly. Just enough resentment and shot-taking at Robb to make it believable as something other than a trap.
- Then they barred the door and my heart dropped. The betrayal was so visceral, Robb so stunned and Cat so tormented that it was absolutely brutal to watch. Stabbing Talisa in the stomach was honestly hard to watch. Even with the greater shock at Ned's execution, this was the more impactful moment. Holy ****.
On June 04 2013 02:44 SCST wrote: I find myself constantly asking: where are the righteous characters that would rather die than become corrupt or a-moral? Where are the people that, as reflected in our own lives, believe in peace, kindness, honor and love? It turns out that there really aren't any in Martin's work. These characters are either grossly under-represented or used for sensationalist fodder by being killed off.
Bran and his group, Jon Snow, Sam, Maester Aemon, Blackfish, Deanarys, Missandei, Jorah Mormont, Barriston Selmy, Arya, Sansa, Loras Tyrell, Gendry, are just those I could come up with in 1 minute. Probably a lot more
Jorah was a slave trader -.-.
You make it sound as if he was one for a living. He did that once. Still a honourable guy in my book, who made 1 big mistake. But was severly punished for that and eventually forgiven and reinstated by the kings council.
No I think he's a great character in the mold of a redemption archetype, but I mean the question was who would rather die than become corrupt/a-moral. Jorah is paying for sins, much like Jamie.
EPT![[image loading]](http://static.tumblr.com/58f04174d7e2d806d6bd4eb18f62ff4b/omzjqeh/Sj9mj3m6d/tumblr_static_tyrion-lannister-tyrion-lannister-23793056-600-900.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mdb6jmQeoG1r9h4heo1_400.jpg)
