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Noizhende
Austria328 Posts
After all she mentioned Robb Stark and now he's dead. So... what happens to Joffrey and Balon Greyjoy? (the other two names mentioned in the ritual) But most likely the ritual and Robb's Death are not connected, it's pretty clear this was Tywins work. | ||
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stokes17
United States1411 Posts
On June 04 2013 03:27 Noizhende wrote: I'm really curious now what that ritual was, which Melisandre did in episode 8. After all she mentioned Robb Stark and now he's dead. So... what happens to Joffrey and Balon Greyjoy? (the other two names mentioned in the ritual) But most likely the ritual and Robb's Death are not connected, it's pretty clear this was Tywins work. I'd bet you anything their heads roll in the season finale. I want to know what ever happened with varus after he found the guy who cut him. | ||
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Noizhende
Austria328 Posts
On June 04 2013 03:30 stokes17 wrote: I'd bet you anything their heads roll in the season finale. I want to know what ever happened with varus after he found the guy who cut him. Haha, yeah, me too, i nearly forgot about that scene!  | ||
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Zarahtra
Iceland4053 Posts
On June 04 2013 03:23 Aegon I wrote: - Team Dany's fight at the gate was pretty awesome. Disappointed that they didn't bring Barristan Selmy along for the ride. But then I re-soured on the Yunkai storyline when they ended with all the soldiers surrounding our heroes then jumping to 'Oh, yea, they all decided they wanted to be on our side now.' If your going to do something that far-fetched, you have to show it to make it plausible. - Jon Snow abandoning Ygritte is like the one plot development that I would never ever predict. - Arya crushes every scene always. Now on to the good stuff... - Edmure's facial expressions through the whole episode were absolute gold. - I came into the episode pretty confident that Robb was going to bite it at the wedding, but the early stuff with Walder and the beginning of the ceremony were so well written and acted that I was actively talking myself out of that prediction. Walder played it perfectly. Just enough resentment and shot-taking at Robb to make it believable as something other than a trap. - Then they barred the door and my heart dropped. The betrayal was so visceral, Robb so stunned and Cat so tormented that it was absolutely brutal to watch. Stabbing Talisa in the stomach was honestly hard to watch. Even with the greater shock at Ned's execution, this was the more impactful moment. Holy ****. I think stabbing Talisa in the stomach was the most gut wrenching thing. I'm not much for gore or brutal movies that it along with the shock-factor of the betrayal just left me numb 'til the end of the episode. I don't go that far to believe I will stop watching GoT, but when the few characters I truly liked(and moreso don't despise) all get killed off... I guess I'll now be watching for Tyrion... If he gets killed off... | ||
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ShadeR
Australia7535 Posts
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Sent.
Poland9331 Posts
On June 04 2013 03:23 farvacola wrote: Not quite, remember that Arya, Sansa, Bran, Rickon, and Jon are still alive and kicking. Was it confirmed that Benjen Stark is dead? | ||
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TheFish7
United States2824 Posts
On June 04 2013 03:18 Scorch wrote: Oh wow. There goes house Stark. At least Brutus had a good time. "The Lannisters send their regards" On June 04 2013 02:37 kamicom wrote: Also, everyone's talking about the red wedding... i want to talk about that Grey Rat leader soldier with the spear. Holy shit man! What a bad ass! Grey Worm is my new favorite show character. | ||
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KOFgokuon
United States14912 Posts
nope, but he's a member of the night's watch so he gives up all claims to lands and titles | ||
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Bagi
Germany6799 Posts
Even if he is alive, he is a man of the nights watch. That is something you can never take back. Just how like Aemon is the maester at night's watch, which makes Daenerys officially the only alive Targaryen. | ||
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Scorch
Austria3371 Posts
On June 04 2013 03:23 farvacola wrote: Not quite, remember that Arya, Sansa, Bran, Rickon, and Jon are still alive and kicking. They're alive, yes, but they have no power whatsoever. None of them are in any position to even reclaim their own castle. | ||
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BlackPanther
United States872 Posts
On June 04 2013 03:27 Noizhende wrote: I'm really curious now what that ritual was, which Melisandre did in episode 8. After all she mentioned Robb Stark and now he's dead. So... what happens to Joffrey and Balon Greyjoy? (the other two names mentioned in the ritual) But most likely the ritual and Robb's Death are not connected, it's pretty clear this was Tywins work. The only way I can see Balon Greyjoy being killed is if his daughter stages a coup or he dies of old age. | ||
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CrimsonLotus
Colombia1123 Posts
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Stratos_speAr
United States6959 Posts
On June 04 2013 02:44 SCST wrote: I think a great deal of people are underestimating the prowess / understanding of many viewers who are criticizing the show. The gut reaction is to think "oh, they're just being mad and emotional because their favorite characters were killed", when it may be something a bit deeper. I've given some thought to the implications of the "Red Wedding" scene and come to realize that Game of Thrones is missing a pretty big, important theme for me. That being: moral righteousness and "the greater good". Let me explain. . . almost all of the characters in Game of Thrones appear to be morally ambivalent in some way. And those characters who seem attracted to the paradigms of "good" (love, honor, peace, pleasure, kindness) are few and far between. Even with these few "good" individuals being placed in the story, they are not consistent and often make decisions that completely invalidate their supposed world view. That, or they are killed. But why? On the surface this may seem like an insight into our own civilization - the idea that morality is really grey and that most people are ambivalent and self-serving. That's what I thought initially. And I admit it was an interesting theme. But after watching "The Red Wedding" I have changed my mind. Sure, I can agree that there are elements of humanity that are violent, selfish, power-seeking and morally reprehensible. And I'm fine with these themes being represented in stories. But the issue I have with Game of Thrones is that these elements dominate excessively . I find myself constantly asking: where are the righteous characters that would rather die than become corrupt or a-moral? Where are the people that, as reflected in our own lives, believe in peace, kindness, honor and love? It turns out that there really aren't any in Martin's work. These characters are either grossly under-represented or used for sensationalist fodder by being killed off. The truth is, many of us in the audience do consider ourselves to be righteous, moral individuals. We want to relate to the characters in the story, not just observe a bunch of savages hacking each other's heads off. How can most of us relate to the morally ambivalent characters or the reprehensible one? If Martin's goal here is to create sensationalist environment with excessive violence, gore and drama then it makes sense that there so few "good guys". But I also feel it's cheap story-telling if this is the case. And if Martin's trying to send a message - that Game of Thrones is a reflection of the human condition and that the story is based somewhat in reality - then I'd argue he's not accurate whatsoever. I don't think there's anything wrong with coming to this realization about Game of Thrones. It's not as outrageous as people seem to think to be turned off by having some of the few characters we could actually relate to (even slightly) massacred. Whether it was for sensationalism or as an attempt to indict most of humanity as being morally ambivalent and reprehensible (when most of humanity is not), both are valid reasons to turn away from the story. Nail on the fucking head. Martin deserves a lot of praise for his writing, his interesting story, his darker themes, his courage to kill off characters, etc. etc. etc. However, when you just constantly knock off every "good guy" in the series, to the point where they are punching bags (Dany being the only "good guy" to play an even remotely important role and not get completely owned), you're over-doing it. Evil and treachery seem to be winning out to the point where it isn't believable and goes against not only what the average viewer wants to see, but what the average viewer actually experiences and can relate to. While the world isn't all sunshine and rainbows and the good guys do die, evil and treachery doesn't constantly prevail; we are not the Dark Elves from the Forgotten Realms or the Dark Eldar from 40k. Even during the Middle Ages, the period that this constant conflict we see in GoT is more indicative of, treachery, deceit, and evil didn't dominate this much. I think this is where some people start to get upset. The only houses that have any real power at this point are the ambiguous-to-evil houses (Bolton, Frey, Lannister, Greyjoy). Any house that could theoretically be painted as "good (Stark, Tyrell, Tully, Arryn) are either pretty much completely dead (Stark, Tully) or marginalized and arguably not even "good" (Tyrell, Arryn). I think the criticism mainly stems from the fact that the "good guys" aren't just losing; they're just being stamped out of existence completely, and this is only halfway through the series. When the only person that can be painted as a "good guy" is a single ruler fighting a far-off war over slaves on a continent that has absolutely nothing to do with the "Game of Thrones", then people get a little disillusioned. | ||
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teapot
United Kingdom266 Posts
On June 04 2013 02:44 SCST wrote: I think a great deal of people are underestimating the prowess / understanding of many viewers who are criticizing the show. The gut reaction is to think "oh, they're just being mad and emotional because their favorite characters were killed", when it may be something a bit deeper. I've given some thought to the implications of the "Red Wedding" scene and come to realize that Game of Thrones is missing a pretty big, important theme for me. That being: moral righteousness and "the greater good". Let me explain. . . almost all of the characters in Game of Thrones appear to be morally ambivalent in some way. And those characters who seem attracted to the paradigms of "good" (love, honor, peace, pleasure, kindness) are few and far between. Even with these few "good" individuals being placed in the story, they are not consistent and often make decisions that completely invalidate their supposed world view. That, or they are killed. But why? On the surface this may seem like an insight into our own civilization - the idea that morality is really grey and that most people are ambivalent and self-serving. That's what I thought initially. And I admit it was an interesting theme. But after watching "The Red Wedding" I have changed my mind. Sure, I can agree that there are elements of humanity that are violent, selfish, power-seeking and morally reprehensible. And I'm fine with these themes being represented in stories. But the issue I have with Game of Thrones is that these elements dominate excessively . I find myself constantly asking: where are the righteous characters that would rather die than become corrupt or a-moral? Where are the people that, as reflected in our own lives, believe in peace, kindness, honor and love? It turns out that there really aren't any in Martin's work. These characters are either grossly under-represented or used for sensationalist fodder by being killed off. The truth is, many of us in the audience do consider ourselves to be righteous, moral individuals. We want to relate to the characters in the story, not just observe a bunch of savages hacking each other's heads off. How can most of us relate to the morally ambivalent characters or the reprehensible one? If Martin's goal here is to create sensationalist environment with excessive violence, gore and drama then it makes sense that there so few "good guys". But I also feel it's cheap story-telling if this is the case. And if Martin's trying to send a message - that Game of Thrones is a reflection of the human condition and that the story is based somewhat in reality - then I'd argue he's not accurate whatsoever. I don't think there's anything wrong with coming to this realization about Game of Thrones. It's not as outrageous as people seem to think to be turned off by having some of the few characters we could actually relate to (even slightly) massacred. Whether it was for sensationalism or as an attempt to indict most of humanity as being morally ambivalent and reprehensible (when most of humanity is not), both are valid reasons to turn away from the story. I completely agree with you. Overall I have found ASOIAF to be cold, nihlistic and has a nasty fetish for Realpolitk. In this supposedly "realistic" story, the unpleasant things in life seem to have much greater representation than any of the joys of life. It never takes a step back and says " ah, this is what life's for." And this is very important given the vast, PoV world-building, all-encompassing epic tale. Obviously this is not the only gauge for a fantasy series, but I ask myself, would I like to visit the depicted fantasy world? If I ever woke up in Westeros, I would be all "where is the fucking Wardrobe? get me the fuck out of here." GRRM's Westeros is a nasty Hell, populated by assholes. | ||
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Badfatpanda
United States9719 Posts
Also, when was the last time a TV show caused this much public whining? Obviously Twitter expedites and augments the reactions but dayum people, what gives? | ||
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Dfgj
Singapore5922 Posts
On June 04 2013 03:18 Zandar wrote: You make it sound as if he was one for a living. He did that once. Still a honourable guy in my book, who made 1 big mistake. But was severly punished for that and eventually forgiven and reinstated by the kings council. Reinstated for being a false subject and spying on Danaerys, which would have led to her assassination if he hadn't betrayed Varys by stopping it. He clearly tries to be honorable, but circumstances are often against him, and in the end he takes the pragmatic route. | ||
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farvacola
United States18869 Posts
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Diizzy
United States828 Posts
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CaM27
Belgium392 Posts
Preview | ||
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-Archangel-
Croatia7457 Posts
And in this the show is just like real world where people like Bush or Putin are equivalent to great lords. | ||
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