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All book discussion in this thread is now allowed. |
Huh, with 13/17 people in that poll having read the books I guess I should stop reading this entirely, since people can't help but subtly confirm shit if they know what's actually happening. Gg.
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On May 13 2013 03:02 Dazed_Spy wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2013 01:15 DragonLord wrote:On May 13 2013 01:04 Biff The Understudy wrote:On May 13 2013 00:08 duoform wrote:On May 12 2013 23:45 zbedlam wrote:On May 12 2013 23:09 Neeh wrote:
The witch was just getting her revenge. It's hard to draw the line between good and evil in this series, most of the characters have legit reasons for doing what they're doing. The Dothraki raped and murdered people for no reason. In fact I don't know how they survived this long since they seemed to rape and kill every source of food they come across aside from horses. Joffrey also kills for no reason. These are the only two "evil" people/factions I have seen in this show so far. The Dothraki raped and murdered because that's their culture and that's how they lived. In the world they live in, like in Westeros, you either live to play the game or die being humble and honest like Ned. Don't get me wrong, I'm a Stark guy in the series but being honest, loyal, etc in a fantasy world like Game of Thrones will lead you nowhere. Joffrey however should die in the most painful way ever. I've discussed this before, I think Robb will not win this war but I seriously hope to see Robb or Jon chopping Joffrey's head in front of Cersei. That would be a freaking good way of ending Season 3  Robb is a dead man. I haven't read the books, and I can predict he won't survive more than a few episodes. Narrative structure is crystal clear, he is losing the war and he will get killed. He is useless for the narrative anyway from now since there is no way on earth he wins after the last few episodes, and the crown of the North needs to be at stake in King's Landing for the story to be more interesting. I can see a Littlefinger or someone like that assassinating him, to be honest. As for Joffrey, I guess he will get out when the rage of audience has reached its peak. All depends how the rivalry between the Tyrell and the Lannister goes, but one of the two families will probably need to get rid of him. Or, I could imagine Jamie getting his second king's kill for noble reasons since apparently he is on a disappointingly cliché redemption path... Let's see. But you have to admit, Robb would make a really great King. Far more level headed and just than either Stannis or Joffrey. Hardly. Hes a naive fool. I think Stannis would be a great king, except for the Red Priestesses negative influence, causing him to compromise his principles and honour constantly.
Stannis is like an asshole version of Ned Stark. Still way too rigid, but people don't even like him.
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On May 13 2013 03:09 CrimsonLotus wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2013 03:02 Dazed_Spy wrote:On May 13 2013 01:15 DragonLord wrote:On May 13 2013 01:04 Biff The Understudy wrote:On May 13 2013 00:08 duoform wrote:On May 12 2013 23:45 zbedlam wrote:On May 12 2013 23:09 Neeh wrote:
The witch was just getting her revenge. It's hard to draw the line between good and evil in this series, most of the characters have legit reasons for doing what they're doing. The Dothraki raped and murdered people for no reason. In fact I don't know how they survived this long since they seemed to rape and kill every source of food they come across aside from horses. Joffrey also kills for no reason. These are the only two "evil" people/factions I have seen in this show so far. The Dothraki raped and murdered because that's their culture and that's how they lived. In the world they live in, like in Westeros, you either live to play the game or die being humble and honest like Ned. Don't get me wrong, I'm a Stark guy in the series but being honest, loyal, etc in a fantasy world like Game of Thrones will lead you nowhere. Joffrey however should die in the most painful way ever. I've discussed this before, I think Robb will not win this war but I seriously hope to see Robb or Jon chopping Joffrey's head in front of Cersei. That would be a freaking good way of ending Season 3 Robb is a dead man. I haven't read the books, and I can predict he won't survive more than a few episodes. Narrative structure is crystal clear, he is losing the war and he will get killed. He is useless for the narrative anyway from now since there is no way on earth he wins after the last few episodes, and the crown of the North needs to be at stake in King's Landing for the story to be more interesting. I can see a Littlefinger or someone like that assassinating him, to be honest. As for Joffrey, I guess he will get out when the rage of audience has reached its peak. All depends how the rivalry between the Tyrell and the Lannister goes, but one of the two families will probably need to get rid of him. Or, I could imagine Jamie getting his second king's kill for noble reasons since apparently he is on a disappointingly cliché redemption path... Let's see. But you have to admit, Robb would make a really great King. Far more level headed and just than either Stannis or Joffrey. Hardly. Hes a naive fool. I think Stannis would be a great king, except for the Red Priestesses negative influence, causing him to compromise his principles and honour constantly. Stannis is like an asshole version of Ned Stark. Still way too rigid, but people don't even like him. Thats why I think he'd of made a great king assuming he took power peacefully. Because Ned would of made a great king. Who cares if he wouldnt be popular per se, he would run the realm competently and justly. Now, i'm not so sure, because Melisandre is god damn insane. I feel like hes relying on her more out of mad desperation than anything else, and if he begins to see greater success [thats predicated more on secular causes] he'll just grow to ignore her, and hopefully, see her for what she is.
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Netherlands6191 Posts
On May 13 2013 03:02 Dazed_Spy wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2013 01:15 DragonLord wrote:On May 13 2013 01:04 Biff The Understudy wrote:On May 13 2013 00:08 duoform wrote:On May 12 2013 23:45 zbedlam wrote:On May 12 2013 23:09 Neeh wrote:
The witch was just getting her revenge. It's hard to draw the line between good and evil in this series, most of the characters have legit reasons for doing what they're doing. The Dothraki raped and murdered people for no reason. In fact I don't know how they survived this long since they seemed to rape and kill every source of food they come across aside from horses. Joffrey also kills for no reason. These are the only two "evil" people/factions I have seen in this show so far. The Dothraki raped and murdered because that's their culture and that's how they lived. In the world they live in, like in Westeros, you either live to play the game or die being humble and honest like Ned. Don't get me wrong, I'm a Stark guy in the series but being honest, loyal, etc in a fantasy world like Game of Thrones will lead you nowhere. Joffrey however should die in the most painful way ever. I've discussed this before, I think Robb will not win this war but I seriously hope to see Robb or Jon chopping Joffrey's head in front of Cersei. That would be a freaking good way of ending Season 3 Robb is a dead man. I haven't read the books, and I can predict he won't survive more than a few episodes. Narrative structure is crystal clear, he is losing the war and he will get killed. He is useless for the narrative anyway from now since there is no way on earth he wins after the last few episodes, and the crown of the North needs to be at stake in King's Landing for the story to be more interesting. I can see a Littlefinger or someone like that assassinating him, to be honest. As for Joffrey, I guess he will get out when the rage of audience has reached its peak. All depends how the rivalry between the Tyrell and the Lannister goes, but one of the two families will probably need to get rid of him. Or, I could imagine Jamie getting his second king's kill for noble reasons since apparently he is on a disappointingly cliché redemption path... Let's see. But you have to admit, Robb would make a really great King. Far more level headed and just than either Stannis or Joffrey. Hardly. Hes a naive fool. I think Stannis would be a great king, except for the Red Priestesses negative influence, causing him to compromise his principles and honour constantly.
He is still young and inexperienced at the moment. Stannis has been compromised though, he has fallen to the Red Woman and her religion. Robb learnt a lot from his father about morality and fairness, skills that would be admired in a king. But he doesn't have the experience or the understanding of ruling. His treatment of Cat for her betrayal is mild, and him breaking his promises to the Frey's for another woman was not right either.
Stannis is cold hearted and does not love his people. He sees them as instruments to achieve his goals of becoming king. And technically he should be next in line for the throne. But it does not neccessarily make him a good ruler
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On May 13 2013 03:07 OrchidThief wrote:
Huh, with 13/17 people in that poll having read the books I guess I should stop reading this entirely, since people can't help but subtly confirm shit if they know what's actually happening. Gg.
I've read the books but I don't post hints or predictions, I mostly just read the thread. I've actually forgotten a lot of stuff since I read them like... 8 years ago.
If people want to talk about morality and things of that nature, sure, I'll comment on something like that but I won't address any speculations.
My comment on the morality thing - there are a few characters who are just so far gone, complete sadistic sociopaths ie The Mountain, Joffrey, and he guy holding Theon that I think it's pretty easy to categorize them as evil. Sure, there are reasons for why they are that way, be it upbringing or whatever, but I think it's hard to defend Joffrey's actions as following any sort of moral code.
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On May 13 2013 03:19 Nevuk wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2013 03:07 OrchidThief wrote:
Huh, with 13/17 people in that poll having read the books I guess I should stop reading this entirely, since people can't help but subtly confirm shit if they know what's actually happening. Gg. I've read the books but I don't post hints or predictions, I mostly just read the thread. I've actually forgotten a lot of stuff since I read them like... 8 years ago. If people want to talk about morality and things of that nature, sure, I'll comment on something like that but I won't address any speculations. My comment on the morality thing - there are a few characters who are just so far gone, complete sadistic sociopaths ie The Mountain, Joffrey, and he guy holding Theon that I think it's pretty easy to categorize them as evil. Sure, there are reasons for why they are that way, be it upbringing or whatever, but I think it's hard to defend Joffrey's actions as following any sort of moral code.
or Joffrey born of incest had some effects on him
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On May 13 2013 03:21 icystorage wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2013 03:19 Nevuk wrote:On May 13 2013 03:07 OrchidThief wrote:
Huh, with 13/17 people in that poll having read the books I guess I should stop reading this entirely, since people can't help but subtly confirm shit if they know what's actually happening. Gg. I've read the books but I don't post hints or predictions, I mostly just read the thread. I've actually forgotten a lot of stuff since I read them like... 8 years ago. If people want to talk about morality and things of that nature, sure, I'll comment on something like that but I won't address any speculations. My comment on the morality thing - there are a few characters who are just so far gone, complete sadistic sociopaths ie The Mountain, Joffrey, and he guy holding Theon that I think it's pretty easy to categorize them as evil. Sure, there are reasons for why they are that way, be it upbringing or whatever, but I think it's hard to defend Joffrey's actions as following any sort of moral code. or Joffrey born of incest had some effects on him
Tommen and Myrcella seem perfectly fine. There's also Dany. I mean sure Viserys (ugh targaryen names too hard to spell) seemed like a blonder Joffrey but as far as being born of incest it doesn't automatically make someone mentally ill, especially just a single generation (sidenote - isn't mental illness one of the least likely side-effects of incest?).
The continued practice of incest could easily lead to madness but unless the Lannister line has been doing it for some time it shouldn't be treated as the best explanation for Joffrey's behavior (I would attribute it more to what Cersei says in the scenes she's had in the show, saying things like "everyone who isn't us is an enemy" I think, and I think the only thing Robert ever says to Joffrey is "You let a little girl disarm you?"
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On May 13 2013 02:55 hooahah wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2013 01:43 -Archangel- wrote:On May 13 2013 01:04 Biff The Understudy wrote:On May 13 2013 00:08 duoform wrote:On May 12 2013 23:45 zbedlam wrote:On May 12 2013 23:09 Neeh wrote:
The witch was just getting her revenge. It's hard to draw the line between good and evil in this series, most of the characters have legit reasons for doing what they're doing. The Dothraki raped and murdered people for no reason. In fact I don't know how they survived this long since they seemed to rape and kill every source of food they come across aside from horses. Joffrey also kills for no reason. These are the only two "evil" people/factions I have seen in this show so far. The Dothraki raped and murdered because that's their culture and that's how they lived. In the world they live in, like in Westeros, you either live to play the game or die being humble and honest like Ned. Don't get me wrong, I'm a Stark guy in the series but being honest, loyal, etc in a fantasy world like Game of Thrones will lead you nowhere. Joffrey however should die in the most painful way ever. I've discussed this before, I think Robb will not win this war but I seriously hope to see Robb or Jon chopping Joffrey's head in front of Cersei. That would be a freaking good way of ending Season 3 Robb is a dead man. I haven't read the books, and I can predict he won't survive more than a few episodes. Narrative structure is crystal clear, he is losing the war and he will get killed. He is useless for the narrative anyway from now since there is no way on earth he wins after the last few episodes, and the crown of the North needs to be at stake in King's Landing for the story to be more interesting. I can see a Littlefinger or someone like that assassinating him, to be honest. As for Joffrey, I guess he will get out when the rage of audience has reached its peak. All depends how the rivalry between the Tyrell and the Lannister goes, but one of the two families will probably need to get rid of him. Or, I could imagine Jamie getting his second king's kill for noble reasons since apparently he is on a disappointingly cliché redemption path... Let's see. lol. You do know that joffrey is jamie's son? How is anyone redeeming themselves by killing their own son? when your son is Joffrey, you have every reason to kill him for the good of mankind. As for evil characters, don't forget The Mountain. Rapin', Pillagin' and the evil brother of The Hound. He's pretty high up there in the 'evil' heiharcy.
WTF, this just proves that your have no children. If he wanted to redeem himself he would step up as a real father to Joffrey, maybe tell him the truth and show him the error of his ways.
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On May 13 2013 03:30 Nevuk wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2013 03:21 icystorage wrote:On May 13 2013 03:19 Nevuk wrote:On May 13 2013 03:07 OrchidThief wrote:
Huh, with 13/17 people in that poll having read the books I guess I should stop reading this entirely, since people can't help but subtly confirm shit if they know what's actually happening. Gg. I've read the books but I don't post hints or predictions, I mostly just read the thread. I've actually forgotten a lot of stuff since I read them like... 8 years ago. If people want to talk about morality and things of that nature, sure, I'll comment on something like that but I won't address any speculations. My comment on the morality thing - there are a few characters who are just so far gone, complete sadistic sociopaths ie The Mountain, Joffrey, and he guy holding Theon that I think it's pretty easy to categorize them as evil. Sure, there are reasons for why they are that way, be it upbringing or whatever, but I think it's hard to defend Joffrey's actions as following any sort of moral code. or Joffrey born of incest had some effects on him Tommen and Myrcella seem perfectly fine. There's also Dany. I mean sure Viserys (ugh targaryen names too hard to spell) seemed like a blonder Joffrey but as far as being born of incest it doesn't automatically make someone mentally ill, especially just a single generation (sidenote - isn't mental illness one of the least likely side-effects of incest?). The continued practice of incest could easily lead to madness but unless the Lannister line has been doing it for some time it shouldn't be treated as the best explanation for Joffrey's behavior (I would attribute it more to what Cersei says in the scenes she's had in the show, saying things like "everyone who isn't us is an enemy" I think, and I think the only thing Robert ever says to Joffrey is "You let a little girl disarm you?"
Joffrey = the worst of Cersei + Jaime
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The poll from previous page is just saddening.
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Fenrax
United States5018 Posts
On May 13 2013 03:55 Sent. wrote:
The poll from previous page is just saddening.
What can I say... I am the one guy who gets surprised by the plot twists!
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On May 13 2013 03:19 Nevuk wrote:
My comment on the morality thing - there are a few characters who are just so far gone, complete sadistic sociopaths ie The Mountain, Joffrey, and he guy holding Theon that I think it's pretty easy to categorize them as evil. Sure, there are reasons for why they are that way, be it upbringing or whatever, but I think it's hard to defend Joffrey's actions as following any sort of moral code.
Fair enough. What I wrote does not apply to people who are straight up insane. Mad King, Joff, Cat's sister and nephew, perhaps the Mountain (we don't really know much about him other than one episode with Loras/Hound and some hearsay), and Barry (Misfits joke anyone... anyone...).
And it's fantasy, so you're allowed to have pure moral good/evil in the form of externalities such as white walkers, zombies, shadow monsters, scary death gods and their vessels, and any other such things we may encounter.
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On May 13 2013 03:55 Sent. wrote:
The poll from previous page is just saddening.
It's likely bullshit since I voted for "read books and spoil" just to keep it bumping up, polls like that hold no weight (I've never read the books lol)
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On May 13 2013 04:00 Fenrax wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2013 03:55 Sent. wrote:
The poll from previous page is just saddening. What can I say... I am the one guy who gets surprised by the plot twists!
Easy. Mods ban speculations from this thread!
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On May 13 2013 04:08 Hitch-22 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2013 03:55 Sent. wrote:
The poll from previous page is just saddening. It's likely bullshit since I voted for "read books and spoil" just to keep it bumping up, polls like that hold no weight (I've never read the books lol)
It seems somewhat accurate to me. I just love how people connect the most vague "hints" in the show and make the most wild of "predictions".
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I get surprised by twists too, because even though I get the foreshadowing, usually I'm just making the wrong inference. I thought Melisandre would go for the fetuses instead of Gendry for instance.
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On May 13 2013 04:10 duoform wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2013 04:00 Fenrax wrote:On May 13 2013 03:55 Sent. wrote:
The poll from previous page is just saddening. What can I say... I am the one guy who gets surprised by the plot twists! Easy. Mods ban speculations from this thread!
Oh and I forget which mod it was that said he loved the speculation because most of the time it was all over the place so it didn't reveal the book spoilers, and created lots of discussion
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On May 13 2013 04:08 Hitch-22 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2013 03:55 Sent. wrote:
The poll from previous page is just saddening. It's likely bullshit since I voted for "read books and spoil" just to keep it bumping up, polls like that hold no weight (I've never read the books lol)
Trust me, that poll isn't bullshit.
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Germany25657 Posts
Let's just get back to discussing the show and having a good time. Don't let the mean spoiler people win and ruin the fun ! 
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On May 13 2013 04:20 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:
I get surprised by twists too, because even though I get the foreshadowing, usually I'm just making the wrong inference. I thought Melisandre would go for the fetuses instead of Gendry for instance. What fetuses?
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EPT
