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[TV] HBO Game of Thrones - Page 690

Forum Index > Media & Entertainment
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All book discussion in this thread is now allowed.
Don_Julio
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
2220 Posts
April 19 2013 08:30 GMT
#13781
It doesnt matter who did it anymore. Wouldnt change anything and none of the characters would care. Too much has happened. What is important is that it resulted in a family feud between the Lannisters and the Starks that ultimately was the reason that the whole continent is at war. Just because a little boy didnt listen to his mother.

It was Cersei most certainly
misirlou
Profile Joined June 2010
Portugal3239 Posts
April 19 2013 08:45 GMT
#13782
On April 19 2013 17:30 Don_Julio wrote:
It doesnt matter who did it anymore. Wouldnt change anything and none of the characters would care. Too much has happened. What is important is that it resulted in a family feud between the Lannisters and the Starks that ultimately was the reason that the whole continent is at war. Just because a little boy didnt listen to his mother.

It was Cersei most certainly


Cersei makes no sense tbh. She was mad at Jaime for trying to kill him when he threw him off the balcony. That would have been a way more concealable death than sending an assassin with a dagger that supposedly belongs to her family, so either the dagger does belong to her family in which case it was stupid to send it, or LF lied about the dagger and he is, at least, trying to put the blame on the lannisters. Then, she wanted to spare Ned, in order to avoid the war.
Zandar
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Netherlands1541 Posts
April 19 2013 09:08 GMT
#13783
On April 19 2013 16:55 Zinnwaldite wrote:
Maybe it was someone else. This person wanted to spark a conflict between the Lannisters and the Starks, and the fact that Bran saw Cersei and Jamie was just a random twist of fate to make us think Jamie or Cersei did it..


I need to rewatch this, somehow it was perfectly clear to me it was Cersei and Jamie wanting to finish the job but I forgot why
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
Scarecrow
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Korea (South)9172 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-04-19 09:09:55
April 19 2013 09:09 GMT
#13784
On April 19 2013 17:45 misirlou wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 19 2013 17:30 Don_Julio wrote:
It doesnt matter who did it anymore. Wouldnt change anything and none of the characters would care. Too much has happened. What is important is that it resulted in a family feud between the Lannisters and the Starks that ultimately was the reason that the whole continent is at war. Just because a little boy didnt listen to his mother.

It was Cersei most certainly


Cersei makes no sense tbh. She was mad at Jaime for trying to kill him when he threw him off the balcony. That would have been a way more concealable death

She makes a lot of sense. Literally noone else knew and it's too far-fetched to consider it a coincidence. Sure she was mad with Jaime for pushing the boy, but seeing as he did it made sense to kill Bran rather than risk him waking up and naming Jamie. The only question is why be so careless in using that dagger? Perhaps it was part of the payment for the assassination and she almost certainly didn't anticipate any problems assassinating a helpless little boy that noone knew needed protecting. Cersei's also shown several times she is overconfident to a fault.
Yhamm is the god of predictions
RogerChillingworth
Profile Joined March 2010
2981 Posts
April 19 2013 09:22 GMT
#13785
I just can't wait for the next episode. I wanna see how Jamie's changed, and what he does. So intense.

Also wondering how Jon is going to swing this 'playing both sides' thing.
ELA
Profile Joined April 2010
Denmark4608 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-04-19 09:27:54
April 19 2013 09:25 GMT
#13786
This struck me watching the last episode and I couldn't shake the thought; am I the only one seeing this?

(Warning! Really crappy photoshop)

+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]

HODOR/JP!
The first link of chain forged, the first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably.
pzea469
Profile Blog Joined September 2008
United States1520 Posts
April 19 2013 10:08 GMT
#13787
So here's something I've been thinking about. Maybe one of you fine and beautiful people can clear this one up for me.

Sooo..... Maester Pycelle has been a spy for Cersei as revealed in season 2 by Tyrion. We also know that he knew that John Arryn had found out the big secret(the king having no true born heirs). We know this because he himself admitted it to Tyrion. He might have even assisted in his death as suggested by Tyrion and Pycelle's reaction.

Now, with all that out of the way, why in seven hells would he tell Ned Stark about both John Arryns last words and give him the book that John Arryn had been reading? It makes no sense at all. Even if he didn't believe he would reach that conclusion, why give him any real info at all? I guess telling him his last words is okay, because we can assume that more people knew what his last words were seeing as how Lady Lysa(Arryns wife) knew his last words as well. It's also not really that helpful either, but he still gave him that info without really needing to. Basically I'm just saying that he was too willing to give him info. And then Ned asks what John Arryn wanted from him(maester Pycelle) right before he died. Maester Pycelle immediately tells him that he was looking for a book. After Ned asks further, Pycelle shows him the book. But this means that Pycelle was also the one that helped John Arryn figure out that Joffrey and his siblings were born of incest. What is Pycelle playing at? Is this a goof in the story or did Pycelle want the hands to figure the secret out? He never looked like he had that intention though. When he was interrogated by Tyrion in season 2 he seemed like a devoted spy to the queen. He also admitted that he knew John Arryn was going to figure it all out and used that as his excuse to betraying him. He denied poisoning him, but it very much suggested that he was in on the plan of taking John Arryn to the grave.

So what's up?

Also, sorry if this was mentioned before but I haven't seen it and it's really been bothering me.
Kill the Deathball
ecstazy
Profile Joined February 2011
Russian Federation59 Posts
April 19 2013 10:19 GMT
#13788
On April 19 2013 19:08 pzea469 wrote:
So here's something I've been thinking about. Maybe one of you fine and beautiful people can clear this one up for me.

Sooo..... Maester Pycelle has been a spy for Cersei as revealed in season 2 by Tyrion. We also know that he knew that John Arryn had found out the big secret(the king having no true born heirs). We know this because he himself admitted it to Tyrion. He might have even assisted in his death as suggested by Tyrion and Pycelle's reaction.

Now, with all that out of the way, why in seven hells would he tell Ned Stark about both John Arryns last words and give him the book that John Arryn had been reading? It makes no sense at all. Even if he didn't believe he would reach that conclusion, why give him any real info at all? I guess telling him his last words is okay, because we can assume that more people knew what his last words were seeing as how Lady Lysa(Arryns wife) knew his last words as well. It's also not really that helpful either, but he still gave him that info without really needing to. Basically I'm just saying that he was too willing to give him info. And then Ned asks what John Arryn wanted from him(maester Pycelle) right before he died. Maester Pycelle immediately tells him that he was looking for a book. After Ned asks further, Pycelle shows him the book. But this means that Pycelle was also the one that helped John Arryn figure out that Joffrey and his siblings were born of incest. What is Pycelle playing at? Is this a goof in the story or did Pycelle want the hands to figure the secret out? He never looked like he had that intention though. When he was interrogated by Tyrion in season 2 he seemed like a devoted spy to the queen. He also admitted that he knew John Arryn was going to figure it all out and used that as his excuse to betraying him. He denied poisoning him, but it very much suggested that he was in on the plan of taking John Arryn to the grave.

So what's up?

Also, sorry if this was mentioned before but I haven't seen it and it's really been bothering me.


He had to give Ned the book. He wouldn't have known if Arryn told other people he had the book. If Pycelle refused to give the book and later Ned found out through someone else that Arryn was reading it, Pycelle would have been in trouble. Most likely Arryn never told anyone, but Pycelle couldn't risk it.
moopie
Profile Joined July 2009
12605 Posts
April 19 2013 10:39 GMT
#13789
^ that would be my guess as well. He was a spy in the sense that he kept the queen in the loop, but not actively taking a role in schemes and plots.
I'm going to sleep, let me get some of that carpet.
-Archangel-
Profile Joined May 2010
Croatia7457 Posts
April 19 2013 10:42 GMT
#13790
I figured Pycelle more as playing all sides but helping Lannisters when he could as he probably considers them top dogs or something. We were shown that he is not as old and frail as he looks but he hides this even from Lannisters.
[UoN]Sentinel
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
United States11320 Posts
April 19 2013 12:14 GMT
#13791
Maybe he's like Littlefinger, only in it for the gold? So he has nothing against Ned, but he's not as loyal to Cersei as we're led to believe.
Нас зовет дух отцов, память старых бойцов, дух Москвы и твердыня Полтавы
Appendix
Profile Joined July 2009
Sweden979 Posts
April 19 2013 12:18 GMT
#13792
On April 19 2013 17:45 misirlou wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 19 2013 17:30 Don_Julio wrote:
It doesnt matter who did it anymore. Wouldnt change anything and none of the characters would care. Too much has happened. What is important is that it resulted in a family feud between the Lannisters and the Starks that ultimately was the reason that the whole continent is at war. Just because a little boy didnt listen to his mother.

It was Cersei most certainly


Cersei makes no sense tbh. She was mad at Jaime for trying to kill him when he threw him off the balcony. That would have been a way more concealable death than sending an assassin with a dagger that supposedly belongs to her family, so either the dagger does belong to her family in which case it was stupid to send it, or LF lied about the dagger and he is, at least, trying to put the blame on the lannisters. Then, she wanted to spare Ned, in order to avoid the war.


She was mad at Jaime because they weren't sure what Bran saw, and it might have been avoidable. If Bran were to wake from his coma, there would have been no doubt that he saw Jaime push him, and deductively, something worth pushing him over.
Zafrumi
Profile Joined June 2009
Switzerland1272 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-04-19 13:23:16
April 19 2013 13:21 GMT
#13793
On April 19 2013 19:08 pzea469 wrote:
So here's something I've been thinking about. Maybe one of you fine and beautiful people can clear this one up for me.

Sooo..... Maester Pycelle has been a spy for Cersei as revealed in season 2 by Tyrion. We also know that he knew that John Arryn had found out the big secret(the king having no true born heirs). We know this because he himself admitted it to Tyrion. He might have even assisted in his death as suggested by Tyrion and Pycelle's reaction.

Now, with all that out of the way, why in seven hells would he tell Ned Stark about both John Arryns last words and give him the book that John Arryn had been reading? It makes no sense at all. Even if he didn't believe he would reach that conclusion, why give him any real info at all? I guess telling him his last words is okay, because we can assume that more people knew what his last words were seeing as how Lady Lysa(Arryns wife) knew his last words as well. It's also not really that helpful either, but he still gave him that info without really needing to. Basically I'm just saying that he was too willing to give him info. And then Ned asks what John Arryn wanted from him(maester Pycelle) right before he died. Maester Pycelle immediately tells him that he was looking for a book. After Ned asks further, Pycelle shows him the book. But this means that Pycelle was also the one that helped John Arryn figure out that Joffrey and his siblings were born of incest. What is Pycelle playing at? Is this a goof in the story or did Pycelle want the hands to figure the secret out? He never looked like he had that intention though. When he was interrogated by Tyrion in season 2 he seemed like a devoted spy to the queen. He also admitted that he knew John Arryn was going to figure it all out and used that as his excuse to betraying him. He denied poisoning him, but it very much suggested that he was in on the plan of taking John Arryn to the grave.

So what's up?

Also, sorry if this was mentioned before but I haven't seen it and it's really been bothering me.


that's intriguing. couldnt it be possible that pycelle wanted ned stark to find out because he knew that ned - being the honorable guy that he is/was - would start shit with the lannisters instead of keeping quiet which of course would cause a deep rift between the starks and the lannisters, maybe even start a war or get ned stark killed like john arryn

we dont really know what side pycelle is on nor his full story. yes he is a spy for the queen but maybe he has his own plan? does anyone remember that scene where he was with a whore and then after she'd left he got up, did a few squats and looked and moved like he was a fit 20 year old... I always wondered what that was about, and I really hope we will find out. thats the beauty about GoT: nothing is what it seems to be and everyone is scheming against everyone, so the audience is never sure who to trust.
"Strong people are harder to kill than weak people and more useful in general" -Mark Rippetoe
karazax
Profile Joined May 2010
United States3737 Posts
April 19 2013 15:58 GMT
#13794
It could just be that Pycelle didn't piece together HOW Ned and Arryn came to the conclusion that Joffrey was not Robert's son, so the book didn't mean anything to him.
chillpenguin
Profile Joined March 2011
United States90 Posts
April 19 2013 17:57 GMT
#13795
It has not yet been stated who sent the assassin to kill Bran. All we know is that:

1. Littlefinger claims the dagger is his, but lost it to Tyrion, from a bet on Jaime vs. Loras Tyrell in a joust. Littlefinger bet on Jaime.

2. Tyrion denies the dagger belongs to him, and questions the logic of arming an assassin with a blade that could easily be linked back to him.
Whitewing
Profile Joined October 2010
United States7483 Posts
April 19 2013 18:34 GMT
#13796
On April 20 2013 02:57 chillpenguin wrote:
It has not yet been stated who sent the assassin to kill Bran. All we know is that:

1. Littlefinger claims the dagger is his, but lost it to Tyrion, from a bet on Jaime vs. Loras Tyrell in a joust. Littlefinger bet on Jaime.

2. Tyrion denies the dagger belongs to him, and questions the logic of arming an assassin with a blade that could easily be linked back to him.


I also find it highly unlikely that Tyrion would ever bet against his own brother, I think that story is fairly dubious.
Strategy"You know I fucking hate the way you play, right?" ~SC2John
D10
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
Brazil3409 Posts
April 19 2013 21:34 GMT
#13797
On April 20 2013 03:34 Whitewing wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 20 2013 02:57 chillpenguin wrote:
It has not yet been stated who sent the assassin to kill Bran. All we know is that:

1. Littlefinger claims the dagger is his, but lost it to Tyrion, from a bet on Jaime vs. Loras Tyrell in a joust. Littlefinger bet on Jaime.

2. Tyrion denies the dagger belongs to him, and questions the logic of arming an assassin with a blade that could easily be linked back to him.


I also find it highly unlikely that Tyrion would ever bet against his own brother, I think that story is fairly dubious.


I disagree 100%

Tyrion is a rational man, he wouldnt choose his brother on a bet just because its his brother, he would try to chose the winning man 100% of the time, and since Loras seems to be the best jouster ever, its not really that unlikely that tyrion having seen them both ride before, could concoct the thought that jaime would lose.
" We are not humans having spiritual experiences. - We are spirits having human experiences." - Pierre Teilhard de Chardin
Whitewing
Profile Joined October 2010
United States7483 Posts
April 19 2013 21:42 GMT
#13798
On April 20 2013 06:34 D10 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 20 2013 03:34 Whitewing wrote:
On April 20 2013 02:57 chillpenguin wrote:
It has not yet been stated who sent the assassin to kill Bran. All we know is that:

1. Littlefinger claims the dagger is his, but lost it to Tyrion, from a bet on Jaime vs. Loras Tyrell in a joust. Littlefinger bet on Jaime.

2. Tyrion denies the dagger belongs to him, and questions the logic of arming an assassin with a blade that could easily be linked back to him.


I also find it highly unlikely that Tyrion would ever bet against his own brother, I think that story is fairly dubious.


I disagree 100%

Tyrion is a rational man, he wouldnt choose his brother on a bet just because its his brother, he would try to chose the winning man 100% of the time, and since Loras seems to be the best jouster ever, its not really that unlikely that tyrion having seen them both ride before, could concoct the thought that jaime would lose.


Loras isn't nearly the best jouster ever, he cheated remember?
Strategy"You know I fucking hate the way you play, right?" ~SC2John
ZasZ.
Profile Joined May 2010
United States2911 Posts
April 19 2013 22:32 GMT
#13799
On April 20 2013 06:34 D10 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 20 2013 03:34 Whitewing wrote:
On April 20 2013 02:57 chillpenguin wrote:
It has not yet been stated who sent the assassin to kill Bran. All we know is that:

1. Littlefinger claims the dagger is his, but lost it to Tyrion, from a bet on Jaime vs. Loras Tyrell in a joust. Littlefinger bet on Jaime.

2. Tyrion denies the dagger belongs to him, and questions the logic of arming an assassin with a blade that could easily be linked back to him.


I also find it highly unlikely that Tyrion would ever bet against his own brother, I think that story is fairly dubious.


I disagree 100%

Tyrion is a rational man, he wouldnt choose his brother on a bet just because its his brother, he would try to chose the winning man 100% of the time, and since Loras seems to be the best jouster ever, its not really that unlikely that tyrion having seen them both ride before, could concoct the thought that jaime would lose.


Disagree. I don't believe Loras was considered that great of a jouster until he unhorsed Jaime in that particular match...whereas as an older man Jaime had a much more storied reputation. People knew that Loras was good, but based on the way Littlefinger phrased the sentence, betting on him in that matchup was playing against the odds.

Given that Tyrion is a rational man, Jaime was the favorite, AND it was his brother, I also find it surprising that Tyrion would bet against him. He would have to be going against both his head and his heart, and few people would do that.
Sub40APM
Profile Joined August 2010
6336 Posts
April 19 2013 22:42 GMT
#13800
Maybe Tyrion resents his brother for being everything Tyrion isnt and also because his dad loves Jaimie so much.
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