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sumsaR
Sweden1812 Posts
On April 23 2015 05:50 Titusmaster6 wrote: No it should go to the next sibling in line right? Like when Robert Baratheon died, Stannis should have been the rightful heir. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Primogeniture Checks for children first, then close relatives. | ||
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Yoav
United States1874 Posts
On April 23 2015 05:57 ShiaoPi wrote: since tyrion is on the run, wanted for patricide, regicide and high treason it is more than likely that his titles were stripped and revoked to the crown (or to Cersei, which is pretty much the same). So yes while under medieval inheritance rules he should be Lord of Casterly Rock, no one in Westeros would give him the title. Assuming he's been stripped of lands, if titles can pass through and be held by women, it goes to Cersei. Assuming they can't be held by women (which seems to be the case) it passes through her and goes to Tommen. However, when Robert was in the situation of holding two of the great castles plus the throne, he gave Renly Storm's End and Stannis Dragonstone. So it's possible Tommen handed it off to another relative who could administer it, or really to anyone he wanted to, but presumably the guy who stormed out of the council meeting. It's also possible that the succession cannot pass through women at all, as in Salic law. In this case, the succession bounces up from Tywin's children and asks if he had any brothers, or failing that, male descendants of brothers. Failing that, it goes to Tywin's uncles and their descendants. + Show Spoiler + Simple guide, if I am king: 1........Me 2..........My children 3...............My grandchildren (and then great grandkids and so on) 4........My siblings 5..........My nephews 6...............My grandnephew 7.....My uncles/[aunts] 8..........My cousins 9..............My cousins once-removed 10.My granduncles/[aunts] and so on and so forth | ||
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Redox
Germany24794 Posts
I am not sure about the power ranking in house Lannister now though. It seemed like both Cercei and her uncle had no say over each other. So I guess she has power as queen mother (she also seemingly controls the king) while he controls Casterly Rock. | ||
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Yoav
United States1874 Posts
On April 23 2015 09:28 Redox wrote: "The guy who stormed out of the council meeting" is Tywin's brother btw. I am not sure about the power ranking in house Lannister now though. It seemed like both Cercei and her uncle had no say over each other. So I guess she has power as queen mother (she also seemingly controls the king) while he controls Casterly Rock. So here's what I didn't get about that scene; she does fully control the king... why not just have him appoint the guy? Fear of Margery? That only goes so far if her gameplan is to leave Tommen in control of the throne. Edit: Also, him being Tywin's brother probably makes him the patriarch of the Lannister Clan, no? | ||
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killa_robot
Canada1884 Posts
On April 23 2015 09:28 Redox wrote: "The guy who stormed out of the council meeting" is Tywin's brother btw. I am not sure about the power ranking in house Lannister now though. It seemed like both Cercei and her uncle had no say over each other. So I guess she has power as queen mother (she also seemingly controls the king) while he controls Casterly Rock. She has no official power as queen mother as far as I can tell. She can tell people what the king says they need to do, but it seems she instead takes that to mean she can just order others around. Tywin's brother called her out by saying he'll do what she says when the king tells him face to face, which she can't oppose because Tommen hasn't made those orders. | ||
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Redox
Germany24794 Posts
On April 23 2015 09:44 killa_robot wrote: She has no official power as queen mother as far as I can tell. She can tell people what the king says they need to do, but it seems she instead takes that to mean she can just order others around. Tywin's brother called her out by saying he'll do what she says when the king tells him face to face, which she can't oppose because Tommen hasn't made those orders. Yeah that is just what I meant. But being this close to the king is a position of power in itself. And let us not forget, in the end it is like Varys said: "Power resides where men believe it resides. It's a trick. A shadow on the wall." | ||
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killerdog
Denmark6522 Posts
On April 23 2015 10:01 Redox wrote: Yeah that is just what I meant. But being this close to the king is a position of power in itself. And let us not forget, in the end it is like Varys said: "Power resides where men believe it resides. It's a trick. A shadow on the wall." Just because Tommen is king doesn't really mean cersei has power though. She might not have 100% influence over him, and if she starts commanding him to order his uncle around/anything else which he doesn't want to do, it risks just further pushing him away from her and otwards the tyrells. Besides, I don't think he was actually literally asking for tommen to tell him that he was wanted as lord of war. He was just basically saying "you really think I believe Tommen wants this? gtfo bitch," he didn't seem like the knid of guy who would suddenly bend over backwards gushing platitudes just because a 10 year old said some scripted lines to him. The king is only as strong as the people supporting his claim to be king are. It would be pretty short sighted for Cersei to try and use the fact he's king to try and strongarm/imtimidate the Tyrells/other Lannisters, since those are the only two real armies which actually still support his claim. Although i guess this is Cersei we're talking about :s | ||
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Sub40APM
6336 Posts
On April 23 2015 09:39 Yoav wrote: So here's what I didn't get about that scene; she does fully control the king... why not just have him appoint the guy? Fear of Margery? That only goes so far if her gameplan is to leave Tommen in control of the throne. Edit: Also, him being Tywin's brother probably makes him the patriarch of the Lannister Clan, no? Martin has left this issue unclear.. On one hand, at that meeting Cercei says shes only a woman and cant be the hand. Implying that inheritance through women is also impossible, which means Tywin's brothers family inherits Lannisterlands (Jaimie being a Guard means he cant inherit and Tyrion's claim no one is going to take seriously or maybe there is a law that say patricides dont inherit.). On the other hand the maneuvering for Sansa -- even when it is explicitly said that she is the last Stark -- suggests that women can inherit. If they can then Cercei should be inheriting Castley Rock as Tywin's only eligible child-heir. So her uncle just fucking off to the castle is essentially treason-ish. | ||
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GreenHorizons
United States23488 Posts
On April 23 2015 14:04 Sub40APM wrote: Martin has left this issue unclear.. On one hand, at that meeting Cercei says shes only a woman and cant be the hand. Implying that inheritance through women is also impossible, which means Tywin's brothers family inherits Lannisterlands (Jaimie being a Guard means he cant inherit and Tyrion's claim no one is going to take seriously or maybe there is a law that say patricides dont inherit.). On the other hand the maneuvering for Sansa -- even when it is explicitly said that she is the last Stark -- suggests that women can inherit. If they can then Cercei should be inheriting Castley Rock as Tywin's only eligible child-heir. So her uncle just fucking off to the castle is essentially treason-ish. Pretty sure the usual deal is that woman can only inherit if there are no male heirs, sons, then brothers, then cousins I believe. | ||
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domane
Canada1606 Posts
What do you think will happen to Myrcella this season? 1. She survives + Doran is on top of things ("not while I rule") + Jaime has become a force of good, and that means he should succeed? 2. She dies + The deaths of Cersei's children were foretold ("... gold will be their shrouds") by the witch who was right about everything else. + Cersei is an insecure tyrant. Losing another child adds to her instability. + Jaime: "I'm going to Dorne. I'm bringing our daughter home" -> He could fail and bring home Myrcella's dead body. | ||
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Zooper31
United States5711 Posts
On April 23 2015 14:04 Sub40APM wrote: Martin has left this issue unclear.. On one hand, at that meeting Cercei says shes only a woman and cant be the hand. Implying that inheritance through women is also impossible, which means Tywin's brothers family inherits Lannisterlands (Jaimie being a Guard means he cant inherit and Tyrion's claim no one is going to take seriously or maybe there is a law that say patricides dont inherit.). On the other hand the maneuvering for Sansa -- even when it is explicitly said that she is the last Stark -- suggests that women can inherit. If they can then Cercei should be inheriting Castley Rock as Tywin's only eligible child-heir. So her uncle just fucking off to the castle is essentially treason-ish. The maneuvering for Sansa is because she's the last Stark. She can inherit stuff if she's the one and only. Also if she had a son, he would then hold power immediately, being a male Stark. Like Jon would be if he got legitimized by Stannis. | ||
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Shock710
Australia6097 Posts
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-Archangel-
Croatia7457 Posts
On April 23 2015 15:07 Shock710 wrote: oh shit that shrouds bit meant their death? O_O, i thought it was just saying all ur children are going to be blonde, and we found out that if they were roberts kids they would have black hair damn nice catch (also im stupid rofl) For that was the part about how she will have 3 children while King will have dozens | ||
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Yoav
United States1874 Posts
On April 23 2015 14:31 GreenHorizons wrote: Pretty sure the usual deal is that woman can only inherit if there are no male heirs, sons, then brothers, then cousins I believe. Depends on the succession laws. Later monarchic law was that women were just below men in priority. Some earlier monarchies (and some contemporary ones) only allow men to inherit, and disallow the line from passing through women at all--this is effective at keeping the line within a family (name) but increases the chance of succession crises. Early English law allowed the line to pass through women, but not to go to them. The French disagreed over the "passing through women" part, leading to the hundred years war. Women actually inheriting was relatively rare in Europe for a long time, though it happened here and there. | ||
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GreenHorizons
United States23488 Posts
On April 23 2015 16:34 Yoav wrote: Depends on the succession laws. Later monarchic law was that women were just below men in priority. Some earlier monarchies (and some contemporary ones) only allow men to inherit, and disallow the line from passing through women at all--this is effective at keeping the line within a family (name) but increases the chance of succession crises. Early English law allowed the line to pass through women, but not to go to them. The French disagreed over the "passing through women" part, leading to the hundred years war. Women actually inheriting was relatively rare in Europe for a long time, though it happened here and there. Well yeah, I think the presumption is that whether it legally passes to or through them it pretty much always just went through them. It was only in rare circumstances where a woman had enough social respect from her male peers that her opinion on the estate would matter in the sense that it was under her rule. So using the GoT example of Sansa, It's not like she would actually inherit much. She would essentially just be a guy's key and he would run everything, even if it was hers on paper (before the marriage). | ||
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Yoav
United States1874 Posts
On April 23 2015 18:31 GreenHorizons wrote: Well yeah, I think the presumption is that whether it legally passes to or through them it pretty much always just went through them. It was only in rare circumstances where a woman had enough social respect from her male peers that her opinion on the estate would matter in the sense that it was under her rule. So using the GoT example of Sansa, It's not like she would actually inherit much. She would essentially just be a guy's key and he would run everything, even if it was hers on paper (before the marriage). Yeah. My read is that he's planning on pulling a Guy de Lusignan and using marriage to her to gain legitimacy as Lord of the North. | ||
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Vorenius
Denmark1979 Posts
On April 23 2015 05:54 JonnyBNoHo wrote: Yep, Snow is a good leader. He also learned a lot from Ned and growing up effectively as a noble in Winterfell. He's hardly perfect either. He would have abandoned the Night's Watch if not for his friends and wouldn't have been elected Lord Commander without Sam's help. I'm not sure why you think Dario would make a good leader. He betrayed his mercenary company's contract because Dany is cute... Dario went back on the mecenary cotract because he knew he was on the losing side. I don't think there was any doubt that Dany's unsullied would defeat mereen plus second sons. The problem was that it would be costly, and she would lose a lot of troops. So when Dario knew that he would lose and saw an opportunity to change sides he went for it. Being pragmatic isn't the worst quality in a leader. | ||
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shin_toss
Philippines2589 Posts
She basically survived through 3 assassinations because 2 people wanted to bone her He betrayed his mercenary company's contract because Dany is cute... She sits in a damn tent while the guys that want to bang her do all the work for her lol imo: Dany is one of the worst in decision making in the show | ||
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Scorch
Austria3371 Posts
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Redox
Germany24794 Posts
On April 24 2015 17:46 Scorch wrote: Daenerys' problem is that she wants to be a kind ruler, grow in power, force freedom upon slaves and stick to the law at the same time. Those goals often contradict each other. She tries to balance it all and hurts her position in the process, when someone better at the Game would prioritize one over the other and think ahead. But she has Dragons! Oh wait... | ||
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