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All book discussion in this thread is now allowed. |
On June 02 2014 19:43 KoRStarvid wrote:Show nested quote +On June 02 2014 19:32 Hot_Bid wrote:On June 02 2014 19:24 KoRStarvid wrote:
Meh, it's a shame that a good character like Oberyn was killed in such a silly way. Why would we believe that an otherwise intelligent man would act so irrationally instead of just killing Gregor and tea-bag him in front of the Lannisters... i really wouldn't describe the most brutal death on TV in recent memory "silly" but the guy let his hubris/thirst for revenge for his sister consume him and paid for it, outside of that he was very intelligent but it was his one weakness. even during the fight as he was toying with the mountain there were moments that showed real danger, he got knocked off his feet a few times etc. Writers do this mistake time and again - they make intelligent characters temporarily stupid for the sake of suspense and excitement, and it's not realistic in any way. Though I agree that the death itself wasn't silly, but rather gruesome as you say, the script was silly as hell. I wish writers would stop using this "sudden irrationality"-device.
It's not that crazy honestly. Oberyn's main intent was to kill the Mountain, yes, but he also knew Tywin had a hand in his sister's death and wanted to publicly shame him. It's not too crazy to think the Mountain was down for the count as well.
He should've stayed out of range though >_>
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On June 02 2014 19:45 Itsmedudeman wrote:Show nested quote +On June 02 2014 19:43 KoRStarvid wrote:On June 02 2014 19:32 Hot_Bid wrote:On June 02 2014 19:24 KoRStarvid wrote:
Meh, it's a shame that a good character like Oberyn was killed in such a silly way. Why would we believe that an otherwise intelligent man would act so irrationally instead of just killing Gregor and tea-bag him in front of the Lannisters... i really wouldn't describe the most brutal death on TV in recent memory "silly" but the guy let his hubris/thirst for revenge for his sister consume him and paid for it, outside of that he was very intelligent but it was his one weakness. even during the fight as he was toying with the mountain there were moments that showed real danger, he got knocked off his feet a few times etc. Writers do this mistake time and again - they make intelligent characters temporarily stupid for the sake of suspense and excitement, and it's not realistic in any way. Though I agree that the death itself wasn't silly, but rather gruesome as you say, the script was silly as hell. I wish writers would stop using this "sudden irrationality"-device. How is this not realistic? Not all intelligent people act rationally ALL THE FUCKING TIME. In fact, really intelligent people believe in stupid bullshit.
If you enter the Thunderdome, you would make sure that you're the one who leaves - you shoot the villian in the head, you burn the corpse. I'm just tired of this writing trick...
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If youre as big as the Mountain, youd be surprised what that kind of body is capable of doing even with mortal wounds.
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On June 02 2014 19:49 FrostedMiniWheats wrote:Show nested quote +On June 02 2014 19:43 KoRStarvid wrote:On June 02 2014 19:32 Hot_Bid wrote:On June 02 2014 19:24 KoRStarvid wrote:
Meh, it's a shame that a good character like Oberyn was killed in such a silly way. Why would we believe that an otherwise intelligent man would act so irrationally instead of just killing Gregor and tea-bag him in front of the Lannisters... i really wouldn't describe the most brutal death on TV in recent memory "silly" but the guy let his hubris/thirst for revenge for his sister consume him and paid for it, outside of that he was very intelligent but it was his one weakness. even during the fight as he was toying with the mountain there were moments that showed real danger, he got knocked off his feet a few times etc. Writers do this mistake time and again - they make intelligent characters temporarily stupid for the sake of suspense and excitement, and it's not realistic in any way. Though I agree that the death itself wasn't silly, but rather gruesome as you say, the script was silly as hell. I wish writers would stop using this "sudden irrationality"-device. It's not that crazy honestly. Oberyn's main intent was to kill the Mountain, yes, but he also knew Tywin had a hand in his sister's death and wanted to publicly shame him. It's not too crazy to think the Mountain was down for the count as well. He should've stayed out of range though >_>
Bolded for truth.
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On June 02 2014 19:47 Warri wrote:
Thinking about the scene a bit more, it's just so cliché. When the mountain grabbed him, he already had his calf pierced and he also had his stomach severely pierced. But then, after lying on the ground for half a minute, he wakes up and goes all enraged berserker mode and manages to actually get up. How does he manage to keep kneeling there, his leg should be paralyzed. And then he can exert enough force with his arms, which also requires the torso, to push in a skull? While he is pressing his fucking stomach should have exploded out of him at that point. Anyway, im not a doctor, but that shit looked unrealistic. :|
Wounded animals are the most dangerous and all that. Adrenaline does crazy shit to people.
Man, I feel bad having watched this episode. I liked Oberyn, I'm fine with him dying as a good plot device but goddamn that was just brutal.
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On June 02 2014 19:49 KoRStarvid wrote:
If you enter the Thunderdome, you would make sure that you're the one who leaves - you shoot the villian in the head, you burn the corpse. I'm just tired of this writing trick...
A Man obsessed is going to act irrationally. Oberyn did nothing but shit talk the lannisters in power and rant about his sister since he got to kings landing. he wanted complete revenge on the whole family to the point of obsession. he's going to do everything he can to further that. and after disarming, piercing the leg of, and stabbing in the stomach, a normal man just waits to die. we can surmise oberyn never fought a man that large or powerful before, as his lover was surprised at the sight of the mountain, and oberyn doesn't seem like the kind of man who wouldn't talk about the biggest man he's killed. he made a bad judgement of the situation, thats not a writing trick. its a character flaw, everyone has em.
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On June 02 2014 19:47 Warri wrote:
Thinking about the scene a bit more, it's just so cliché. When the mountain grabbed him, he already had his calf pierced and he also had his stomach severely pierced. But then, after lying on the ground for half a minute, he wakes up and goes all enraged berserker mode and manages to actually get up. How does he manage to keep kneeling there, his leg should be paralyzed. And then he can exert enough force with his arms, which also requires the torso, to push in a skull? While he is pressing his fucking stomach should have exploded out of him at that point. Anyway, im not a doctor, but that shit looked unrealistic. :|
Adrenaline, and the spear wound doesn't hurt the mountain as much as it would on regular people. The mountain is 8ft 400+lbs of muscle, that'd be like taking a rapier thrust on normal sized people. Not immediate death, and with enough adrenaline, you can fight through that. The ankle slash would be much, much worse because you simply can't use a appendage that isn't connected by muscle.
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To guys comlaining about the spear wound - The mountain barely moved, he knocked oberyn to the floor and rolled on to him. (Very possible).
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On June 02 2014 19:54 PrinceXizor wrote:Show nested quote +On June 02 2014 19:49 KoRStarvid wrote:
If you enter the Thunderdome, you would make sure that you're the one who leaves - you shoot the villian in the head, you burn the corpse. I'm just tired of this writing trick... A Man obsessed is going to act irrationally. Oberyn did nothing but shit talk the lannisters in power and rant about his sister since he got to kings landing. he wanted complete revenge on the whole family to the point of obsession. he's going to do everything he can to further that. and after disarming, piercing the leg of, and stabbing in the stomach, a normal man just waits to die. we can surmise oberyn never fought a man that large or powerful before, as his lover was surprised at the sight of the mountain, and oberyn doesn't seem like the kind of man who wouldn't talk about the biggest man he's killed. he made a bad judgement of the situation, thats not a writing trick. its a character flaw, everyone has em.
Yeah, a skilled fighter and trained killer, whose whole style of fighting is based on evasion and wits would suddenly drop all of that because he was "obsessed"? I don't buy it, but I'm happy for you guys that you do.
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On June 02 2014 20:06 KoRStarvid wrote:Show nested quote +On June 02 2014 19:54 PrinceXizor wrote:On June 02 2014 19:49 KoRStarvid wrote:
If you enter the Thunderdome, you would make sure that you're the one who leaves - you shoot the villian in the head, you burn the corpse. I'm just tired of this writing trick... A Man obsessed is going to act irrationally. Oberyn did nothing but shit talk the lannisters in power and rant about his sister since he got to kings landing. he wanted complete revenge on the whole family to the point of obsession. he's going to do everything he can to further that. and after disarming, piercing the leg of, and stabbing in the stomach, a normal man just waits to die. we can surmise oberyn never fought a man that large or powerful before, as his lover was surprised at the sight of the mountain, and oberyn doesn't seem like the kind of man who wouldn't talk about the biggest man he's killed. he made a bad judgement of the situation, thats not a writing trick. its a character flaw, everyone has em. Yeah, a skilled fighter and trained killer, whose whole style of fighting is based on evasion and wits would suddenly drop all of that because he was "obsessed"? I don't buy it, but I'm happy for you guys that you do.
How many Mountains do you think the guy has fought?
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On June 02 2014 19:48 Monsen wrote:Show nested quote +On June 02 2014 19:40 Itsmedudeman wrote:
Intelligent people act irrationally all the time. Hopefully I don't need to bring out the history textbooks, but yeah. He didn't just want to get revenge on the Mountain, he wanted revenge on Tywin who ordered it too so it was really important to him that the Mountain would confess to it. Really, in terms of whose fault it was Oberyn may have hated the Mountain and Tywin equally as much. Indeed. Everyone chastising Oberyn for not ending the fight as soon as he could just doesn't understand his motivations at all. He didn't fight just to kill the mountain. Even before the fight he basically (and wrongly) took the mountains death for granted and was more focused on getting the confession that would give him a shot at Tywin.
Confession wouldn't give him a shot at Tywin. It'd give him justification which he already had through word of mouth. He was just being dumb.
Game of Throws.
I think the story tries to be unpredictable by killing characters you're not sure will die. It's a way to keep you hooked on the story. Some people call this good storywriting when it really feels like being controlled. That's something that shows like Avatar the last airbender did well. They were entertaining without massive cliffhangers.
Anyways I don't think Tyrion dies.
This shit feels patronizing. Like I'm being handled. Kinda wanna stop watching.
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Russian Federation1016 Posts
I consider myself as a person with strong stomach, I've seen some sh*t and blood in my life, but I almost threw up at that scene. The "dance" with a spear was as beautiful as the death scene was disgusting. Now I need to rewatch "Troy" to compare the fights.
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On June 02 2014 20:09 Leporello wrote:Show nested quote +On June 02 2014 20:06 KoRStarvid wrote:On June 02 2014 19:54 PrinceXizor wrote:On June 02 2014 19:49 KoRStarvid wrote:
If you enter the Thunderdome, you would make sure that you're the one who leaves - you shoot the villian in the head, you burn the corpse. I'm just tired of this writing trick... A Man obsessed is going to act irrationally. Oberyn did nothing but shit talk the lannisters in power and rant about his sister since he got to kings landing. he wanted complete revenge on the whole family to the point of obsession. he's going to do everything he can to further that. and after disarming, piercing the leg of, and stabbing in the stomach, a normal man just waits to die. we can surmise oberyn never fought a man that large or powerful before, as his lover was surprised at the sight of the mountain, and oberyn doesn't seem like the kind of man who wouldn't talk about the biggest man he's killed. he made a bad judgement of the situation, thats not a writing trick. its a character flaw, everyone has em. Yeah, a skilled fighter and trained killer, whose whole style of fighting is based on evasion and wits would suddenly drop all of that because he was "obsessed"? I don't buy it, but I'm happy for you guys that you do. How many Mountains do you think the guy has fought?
None. That doesn't change the fact that Oberyn appears to be a man that knows how to keep his distance.
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Finland5701 Posts
If Tyrion dies, Jaime's and Tywins deal is off. Mountain maybe dies to his wounds. On the bright side, seems like Oberyn got what he wanted
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On June 02 2014 20:06 KoRStarvid wrote:
Yeah, a skilled fighter and trained killer, whose whole style of fighting is based on evasion and wits would suddenly drop all of that because he was "obsessed"? I don't buy it, but I'm happy for you guys that you do.
you'd complain that it was unrealistic that Carrie lashes out at the end of the book because its unrealistic that such a shy girl would even go to prom in the first place. He misjudged how much he needed to disable the opponent because he had no experience with men that large. are you telling me you thought that the mountain would be able to kill him while disarmed, unable to stand and impaled? or are you telling me that an experienced fighter wouldn't know what it takes to disable a man?
or that he wouldn't become confident when he has accomplished what it takes?
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On June 02 2014 19:32 urboss wrote:
My only concern is The Hound and if he will get his money.
I laughed hard at his face and how Arya laughed as she heard that Lady Arryn was dead. Shame it will go down unnoticed after someone's head exploded in the same episode!
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Just leaving upon finding out about Lysas death was pretty retarded. Any high lord who corrently holds the title as Lord of the Eyrie (especially a man like littlefinger) is going to pay ransom to get their hands on a highborn lady such as Arya Stark, if not to protect her then to use her as a political hostage.
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So with Ygritte and her band moving towards Castle Black, according to the Night's Watch.
How you guys think the story of her and Jon will go ?
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On June 02 2014 20:16 PrinceXizor wrote:Show nested quote +On June 02 2014 20:06 KoRStarvid wrote:
Yeah, a skilled fighter and trained killer, whose whole style of fighting is based on evasion and wits would suddenly drop all of that because he was "obsessed"? I don't buy it, but I'm happy for you guys that you do. you'd complain that it was unrealistic that Carrie lashes out at the end of the book because its unrealistic that such a shy girl would even go to prom in the first place. He misjudged how much he needed to disable the opponent because he had no experience with men that large. are you telling me you thought that the mountain would be able to kill him while disarmed, unable to stand and impaled? or are you telling me that an experienced fighter wouldn't know what it takes to disable a man? or that he wouldn't become confident when he has accomplished what it takes?
I haven't read Carrie. Saw the film (1976) though and was rather unimpressed.
An experienced fighter would know to disable the brain. An experienced fighter would know that an opponent could feign injury, and one would think that you would be even more wary of that when your opponent is the largest man you'd ever fought. An experienced fighter wouldn't let his opponent out of sight, and would keep out of range until his opponent was confirmed dead.
If he wanted a confession, he could have pranced around asking for that while keeping his distance.
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On June 02 2014 20:24 KoRStarvid wrote:Show nested quote +On June 02 2014 20:16 PrinceXizor wrote:On June 02 2014 20:06 KoRStarvid wrote:
Yeah, a skilled fighter and trained killer, whose whole style of fighting is based on evasion and wits would suddenly drop all of that because he was "obsessed"? I don't buy it, but I'm happy for you guys that you do. you'd complain that it was unrealistic that Carrie lashes out at the end of the book because its unrealistic that such a shy girl would even go to prom in the first place. He misjudged how much he needed to disable the opponent because he had no experience with men that large. are you telling me you thought that the mountain would be able to kill him while disarmed, unable to stand and impaled? or are you telling me that an experienced fighter wouldn't know what it takes to disable a man? or that he wouldn't become confident when he has accomplished what it takes? I haven't read Carrie. Saw the film (1976) though and was rather unimpressed. An experienced fighter would know to disable the brain. An experienced fighter would know that an opponent could feign injury, and one would think that you would be even more wary of that when your opponent is the largest man you'd ever fought. An experienced fighter wouldn't let his opponent out of sight, and would keep out of range until his opponent was confirmed dead. If he wanted a confession, he could have pranced around asking for that while keeping his distance.
its hard to interrogate without a further threat. no one is threatening in hand to hand combat from a distance.
death wasn't his goal, not his primary one. he wanted information more.
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