EPT[Movie] Steal this film - Page 2
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dinmsab
Malaysia2246 Posts
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CDRdude
United States5625 Posts
On October 04 2008 05:31 meRz wrote: I'm going to say what I always say when it comes to these things. Piracy is stealing another persons work, and saying it's not is just bullshit. On October 04 2008 06:17 VIB wrote: It is stealing because the laws say so. On October 04 2008 06:28 Ace wrote: It's not stealing because the law says so, it's stealing because thats exactly what stealing is. Also those laws benefit EVERYONE, not just "1%" of the population. What kind of bullshit logic is that. On October 04 2008 06:35 poingy wrote: It is stealing because it is. It only doesn't feel as bad to be stealing in this manner because there's nothing physical being taken. On October 04 2008 06:50 TonyL2 wrote: You gotta know that pirating IS stealing. There's something with a price, you take it without permission from the creator, that's stealing. Piracy is not stealing. Piracy is copyright infringement. Copyright infringement is different from stealing. That is a massive pet peeve of mine. Pirating a game is not stealing. Stealing, or theft, is defined by physical removal of property. Copyright infringement is defined by illegally copying something. At least in U.S. law, there is a fundamental difference between the two (one is a criminal offense, one is a civil offense). They are both illegal, but that doesn't make them the same. | ||
micronesia
United States24805 Posts
On October 04 2008 05:32 Excalibur_Z wrote: every copy pirated is a copy not sold Not to nitpick, but this isn't really correct. That's assuming that if the person didn't pirate it, that they would have bought it. But you can make an accurate similar statement: for every case where somebody would have bought a game, but didn't because pirating it was available, your company loses out on the money it needs to pay its employees etc). | ||
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Excalibur_Z
United States12261 Posts
On October 04 2008 07:57 micronesia wrote: Not to nitpick, but this isn't really correct. That's assuming that if the person didn't pirate it, that they would have bought it. But you can make an accurate similar statement: for every case where somebody would have bought a game, but didn't because pirating it was available, your company loses out on the money it needs to pay its employees etc). That is very true, and I was intentionally oversimplifying it. You could also mention where people use piracy as a "try before you buy" opportunity. It's infrequent, but it does happen. I was speaking in a very general sense. | ||
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Dead9
United States4725 Posts
On October 04 2008 07:19 VIB wrote: Wow so much resistance. Thought people on this forum would be a little bit smarter than the usual  Did you guys even watch the movie? It explains some points you guys are debating so I wouldn't need to answer it all over again for the people comparing piracy to shoplifting. Ace, I'm "a fucking idiot" for saying companies shouldn't sell their services? I said the exact opposite, read properly before you reply in that tone. Who is the "fucking idiot"? And yes the software (intellectual property) in WoW is free, you can download it in their webpage, you pay exclusively for services: cd-key (which isn't even necessary to charge for) + monthly fee. I'm not even arguing if it's right or wrong for them. My only point in citing WoW was to leave it clear that it exists a gaming business model where you are not charged for intellectual property. So you guys stop freaking out with "but omg all companies would break, there is no alternative!!!" I'm not telling anyone to do anything. Piracy is a growing reality and we all have to deal with it. All I'm saying is "adapt or...don't" if they choose to not adapt it's them who are breaking, not me. There is this chinese proverb quoted on the Part 1 movie: "When a windstorm comes, people divides in two groups: those who hide in shelter and those who build windmills" I'm not telling anyone to build windmills. If you believe hiding in a shelter and calling me a "fucking idiot" is the only solution then it's up to you ^^ Crime rates are higher when society isn't educated You can't expect everyone to download a 500 MB movie just to argue with you...paraphrase the movie or something if it's so good at explaining your point Really though, I don't see how you think piracy is good; just because everyone pirates software doesn't mean piracy is right. Hell, this is probably how Hitler took over Germany. "Everyone else is doing it. We can too!" Excalibur's point can't be summed up in: "copyright benefits me, I make money off it so does my colleagues. Piracy reduces our income, therefore pirating is a bad thing." What he's saying is that piracy does not only harm the rich, but also their employees (and if you really want to look further, their families and the economy as well) I'm not saying that software companies shouldn't adapt; I'm saying that piracy is wrong. And really, is it possible to block out piracy? And realistically, if everyone got their games/music/videos from piracy, would companies even bother to make them? | ||
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KlaCkoN
Sweden1661 Posts
On October 04 2008 07:54 CDRdude wrote: Piracy is not stealing. Piracy is copyright infringement. Copyright infringement is different from stealing. That is a massive pet peeve of mine. Pirating a game is not stealing. Stealing, or theft, is defined by physical removal of property. Copyright infringement is defined by illegally copying something. At least in U.S. law, there is a fundamental difference between the two (one is a criminal offense, one is a civil offense). They are both illegal, but that doesn't make them the same. Agreed. And noone is ever going to convince me that sharing something with my friends is wrong. Just no, that's not how I was brought up. As someone living in a country where a 12 year old girl can get _raped_ in a public bath house and noone intervenes I view torrent sites as something beautiful. They are built around the principle that a few people do a lot of work gaining nothing in the process but the enjoyment of others. (Sort of like running the TSL  )I can not detest that. The industry has to adapt. Blizzard makes money because their games come with other services in addition to the software it self thus rending piracy pointless. Sins of a Solar Empire sold well because it was a great game. Maybe in the future there won't be Musical Super stars anymore, because that amount of money won't be pumped into that industry. I could care less though. There are SOO many talented musicans and there will still be more than enough money around for them to make a living of. The film industry will hurt though. Perhaps even disapear, that would be sad but most likely the show can go on with income from cinemas as long as the stars lower their wages a couple of millions. | ||
disciple
9071 Posts
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uNiGNoRe
Germany1115 Posts
Years ago I did buy maybe 2 out of 10 games I played, mainly because I didn't have the money to buy them. But today I buy all the games I play but only because I rarely play new games and I only if I hat the chance to try them out. Although I think (every copy pirated is a copy not sold) Isn't true at all. I can just speak for myself but I played a lot of games I would've never ever bought. The problem is that game demo's are so rare today that you don't get a chance to play the game before you decide to buy it or not. On the other hand I think VIB is absolutely right about the windmills. And this is where the music industry especially fails. I prefer downloading music because there is no other considerable option. I can't/don't want to use the commercial online music stores because I'm doing a lot of copy-here-copy-there, backing up and other stuff so a copy/burn limitation on the files is nothing I could go along with. In addition many of this music can be listened to with only one specific player (like iTunes) which I don't want to do either. Buying CD's is pretty bad, too, because I would have to go to the store and buy the CD, rip the music and most likely have problems with stupid copy protection crap and it's fucking expensive as well. After that I could just throw the CD away... And my beloved band gets only a small percentage of this money anyways. Of course, they don't get anything as long as I download it, but I would pay them three times the money they would normally get if they would give me permission to download it. | ||
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
and how are they going to do that? Console games can't, musicians can't, and most videogames that are not MMOs or FPS can't. | ||
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GGQ
Canada2653 Posts
"How should industries adapt to growing piracy rates?" is an entirely different issue from "Is piracy wrong?" | ||
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
@klackon: what does anything you typed have to do with legitimizing you for stealing? | ||
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KlaCkoN
Sweden1661 Posts
On October 04 2008 08:37 Ace wrote: "the industry should just adapt" and how are they going to do that? Console games can't, musicians can't, and most videogames that are not MMOs or FPS can't. I don't know anything at all about console games. Musicians most definatly can. Live concerts beeing the most obvious way. Playing on the streets another one. There are soo many people who love to produce music for its own sake. The quality won't go down just because billions are not pumped into the industry via albums anymore. In my post I mentioned blizzard (wc3) and Sins of a solar empire, none of them MMOs or FPS. | ||
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GGQ
Canada2653 Posts
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KlaCkoN
Sweden1661 Posts
On October 04 2008 08:43 Ace wrote: Not only that, but it's like posters here feel like they are in the right for pirating things and that the Software Industry should cater to THEM and find a better way not to get their stuff stolen. @klackon: what does anything you typed have to do with legitimizing you for stealing? Firstly, like someone above mentioned it is not stealing by the letter of the law. Secondly, I described why I cannot think it is morally wrong. And then I expressed the rather pragmatic view that either the people making money of these things adapt to the fact that people can share freely or they loose their jobs. An industry cannot survive if the very foundation of it's existance is the fact that people are not allowed to share. edit: @ above I think it is slightly less here, my point was that blizzard made a lot of money on wc3, in an age where pirating already had started to become rampant, only because it was a good game. | ||
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disciple
9071 Posts
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CDRdude
United States5625 Posts
On October 04 2008 08:53 KlaCkoN wrote: An industry cannot survive if the very foundation of it's existance is the fact that people are not allowed to share. All you can eat buffet style restaurants do fairly well. Granted, it's only a subset of an industry, but there is precedent to the not-sharing business model. | ||
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KlaCkoN
Sweden1661 Posts
 Maybe it does work then. I still don't really think so though. | ||
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Tensai176
Canada2061 Posts
On a more related topic, i pirate games for more like a demo purpose. Really, I say it in the wholest sense, if I don't like it, I don't play it again. If I like it, I actually go and buy it (Total war series), so in MY case, i continue to pirate games since i don't wanna gamble on paying like 70 dollars on a crappy game. | ||
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BlackJack
United States10574 Posts
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IntoTheWow
is awesome32282 Posts
On October 04 2008 08:25 disciple wrote: film industry wont disappear because of the piracy, cause they are making money in the theaters the weeks after the movie is in the public scene and the piracy doesnt have the time to kickin. As you know it takes a while for a movie to appear in the torrent with descent quality, so the money lost due too bad dvd sells are just pain in the ass. the music suffers the most. the guys from metallica dont give a fuck about piracy and the fact that their album was to download everywhere a week before it was even in the stores, cause the band is pretty much on tour for so years and the bastards are making money like shit from their concerts. But for the unknown artists the piracy is quite deadly On the contrary, internet and free download have given lots of unknown artists a way to show their work that otherwise would have gone trough the filter or music companies. | ||
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