This thrilling Netflix-original drama stars award-winning actress Winona Ryder as Joyce Byers, who lives in a small Indiana town in 1983 -- inspired by a time when tales of science fiction captivated audiences. When Joyce's 12-year-old son, Will, goes missing, she launches a terrifying investigation into his disappearance with local authorities. As they search for answers, they unravel a series of extraordinary mysteries involving secret government experiments, unnerving supernatural forces, and a very unusual little girl.
So, something strange (huehue) just happened. I saw this post on reddit about this supposedly new netflix show i've never heard about and how good it was. 6 hours later i've binged the first 6 of 8 episodes and have to conclude: wow - did not see that coming. And thats not in any way meant towards anything happening in the show (still got two more hours to watch after i'm home from barbecuing later), but that such a show can appear like that, without much of any big advertisement, and blow me the fuck away.
Its pretty fantastic, got some of that 80's E.T. / Stephen King / HP Lovecraft vibe - while still remaining damn authentic. At least 50% of its actors are child actors, which in itself mostly should be something to scowl at, but lo and behold - they're also pretty damn fantastic.
8 hours ago I did not know this show existed, now its probably a early contender in the race for personal show of the year.
Started to watch this morning following a thread on reddit. I watched the first 2 and I'm impressed, I'm not much of a fan of supernatural shows and this one definitely breaks the mold. As you said it has a really Spielberg feel, very much like the movie super 8.
Huh i just wanted to make a thread myself Yeah this show is pretty entertaining so far (after three episodes). If it stays at that lvl it's surely one of the better Netflix shows! have to agree with the sentiment that that child actors are good, that was my biggest fear before starting the show (let's be real bad child actors would make it unwatchable)
On July 19 2016 02:28 Hider wrote: Skimmed through the show in a couple of hours.
Felt like a children/teenage series and was pretty stereotypical/simplistic and very boring. Waste of 3 hours.
I too skim through shows in three hours to value it afterwards. Yes this isn't The Wire , Six Feet Under or Sopranos. But if you don't go into it expecting that you still get a show which knows exactly how to press the nostalgia buttons without it feeling too forced. The child actors are great and the production value is decent enough. Overall the story is very tight which is imo a good thing in this case.
But yeah sure if you only value the script and expect something which it simply never wants to be, then i can see why you would be disappointed.
But yeah sure if you only value the script and expect something which it simply never wants to be, then i can see why you would be disappointed.
Well generally when something is rated at 9.2 at IMDB I expect it to have a lot of depth. Based on the description it did indeed seem like a show that wasn't for me, but I guess I was deceived by the praise.
I too skim through shows in three hours to value it afterwards
The easier it is to predict what happens in each scene the more you can skip. Last episode I watched in like 10 minutes. Couldn't care less about the killing of a monster.
Obviously if it had been a longer show (like 10+ episodes) I probably would just have quit after 3 episodes.
Well generally when something is rated at 9.2 at IMDB I expect it to have a lot of depth
Yeah this is the error imo. People are incredibly bad at rating art. I completely agree that it doesn't deserve that high of a rating despite liking it for what it is.
At the same time i think it is unfair to only value something if the script/writing is surprising to you. There is a lot more to enjoy in film making. But yeah it's not the next show you will talk about in 10 years from now.
With that being said, i still look forward to the next three episodes even though i have a good idea of what will probably happen ^^
Well generally when something is rated at 9.2 at IMDB I expect it to have a lot of depth.
Well how gosh darn silly of you too judge it by an obviously inflated score (like every single other series thats ever been rated on imbd - think mr. robot was at like 9.4 a year ago, now its at 8.8 ) two days after its been released.
And how did this not have any depth?
Last episode I watched in like 10 minutes.
Ah, nevermind then.
I cant even comprehend how you could in any way evaluate something when you skip 80% of it. But hey, to each his own - makes for a quick evening of watching something.
That being said, its completely fine to not like the show. (especially when you're in no way very attached to growing up in the 80s)
I've since watched the last two episodes (which were equally good as the ones before) and am very satisfied how they ended it, the ways they left themselven open to continue in a second season and the overall feeling it left me in.
I havent had that "have to binge"-feeling in a long time, and it felt like they really did aim to incite this watching-behaviour in their viewers. So yeah, if there is a second season i'd be pretty stoked. And if not, well its a heck of an original series coming from netflix.
I cant even comprehend how you could in any way evaluate something when you skip 80% of it.
You see the start of a scene. Then you guess what happens afterwards. When you turn out to be correct almost everytime and most of the scenes are boring and stereotypical anyway, then you start skipping towards the end of every scene. So it's a graudal proces. Almost watched the whole part of episode 1 and skipped more and more as it became obvious that the show didn't have any depth.
The more experience you get with this, the easier it is to predict by seeing the first 2-3 seconds of a scene whenever something interesting is gonna happen over the rest of the scene.
Ofc if you care about the actual dialogue, teenage love scenes or various action scenes, you may feel differently. Personally the only reason I would end up caring about the above is if I actually cared about the plot and/or the characters in the first place.
Well how gosh darn silly of you too judge it by an obviously inflated score
Admittely I don't really have any experience at looking at IMDB ratings over time.
Still, shows in the high 8s are still usually pretty decent entertainment. This was probably the least enjoyable (non comedy) show above 8.5 I remember watching.
Yeah this is the error imo. People are incredibly bad at rating art. I completely agree that it doesn't deserve that high of a rating despite liking it for what it is.
Well I feel like a 9.2 rating if the target group is a 12-18 year olds would be appropriate. Alot of teenagers probably don't have the same need for depth and is likely to be more excited by the thriller and the easy to follow story. But I just don't see anything in the show that indicated that adults should be the target group.
Well how gosh darn silly of you too judge it by an obviously inflated score
Admittely I don't really have any experience at looking at IMDB ratings over time.
Still, shows in the high 8s are still usually pretty decent entertainment. This was probably the least enjoyable (non comedy) show above 8.5 I remember watching.
Yeah this is the error imo. People are incredibly bad at rating art. I completely agree that it doesn't deserve that high of a rating despite liking it for what it is.
Well I feel like a 9.2 rating if the target group is a 12-18 year olds would be appropriate. Alot of teenagers probably don't have the same need for depth and is likely to be more excited by the thriller and the easy to follow story. But I just don't see anything in the show that indicated that adults should be the target group.
I've had the complete opposite experience. This attitute of being unable to enjoy something simple and sneering at most of what wasn't Bergman/Tarkovsky/Kurosawa/Kubrick/Truffaut-esque is something I had and encountered in others much more at 12-18.
The series is heavily influenced by Spielberg and the movies of the 80s like Stand By Me and ET. The predictability of the plot is a give in during these sorts of films, they are genre. The series has remarkable depth if you appreciate the production, stream lined plot and the films ability to explain alot with very little. And the series does take some twists during the course of eight episodes.
But, no, its no Breaking Bad. Because that isn't what the creators wanted to make. And the target audience isn't just 12-18 year olds. Its everyone from 12-18 and 30 plus years old. It might not do well in the cynical, elitist twenty somethings demographic.
On July 19 2016 05:06 Hider wrote: Well I feel like a 9.2 rating if the target group is a 12-18 year olds would be appropriate. Alot of teenagers probably don't have the same need for depth and is likely to be more excited by the thriller and the easy to follow story. But I just don't see anything in the show that indicated that adults should be the target group.
This show is most definitely not targeted at 12-18 year olds but rather the 30+ who watched tv and movies in the 80's and 90's who get the vibe they are going for.
Definitely targeted at adults. Not everything is about narrative depth, this show has an excellent score, some surprisingly good child actors and it's predictable mainly because of its reliance on nostalgia. It seems you really prefer 'deep', unpredictable narratives and think everyone should watch and enjoy things the same way as you do. The skipping of scenes is just silly, if you're gonna do that just drop the show, you lose any immersion or feelings towards the characters. Any criticism once you start skipping is flawed as you're not watching the whole product, just leapfrogging from scene to scene adding up sterile plot points, of course it sucks then.
Thought this show would suck by reading the description "kids and a mother looking for her son". Movies and shows are so much more then not being predictable. It's by feeling it, making it alive like your living the show. This show had that, it was very well made, and I am the targeted audience as well being 30+
I would say the IMDB rating was spot on. But then again, I didn't care for Sopranos
It seems you really prefer 'deep', unpredictable narratives
Yes
and think everyone should watch and enjoy the same thing as you do
I mentioned mulitple times that this was my opinion. I guess your just the type of person who wants it to be illegal for people to have a different opinion.
The skipping of scenes is just silly
From my perspective its silly to waste time watching scenes that you think are boring. Not sure why you would claim other people should be forced to spend time something they don't enjoy. Or perhaps you just think everyone should be enjoying this type of show and not be allowed to have a different opinion?
I guess you probably just have a real double standard there.
This show is most definitely not targeted at 12-18 year olds but rather the 30+ who watched tv and movies in the 80's and 90's who get the vibe they are going for.
Well I also never cared about nostalagia and thought 90s shows were boring, so that's probably it. Like the reason I say it reminds of a kids show is that it had a lot of similarities to alot of the stuff I watched in the 90s and was modestly entertained by back then. But today I am just looking for something else.
The series has remarkable depth if you appreciate the production, stream lined plot and the films ability to explain alot with very littl
That's not really depth, but I don't deny that the show does do things well. It's just not what I am looking for in a show.
On July 19 2016 22:22 Plansix wrote: Then maybe tone down the elitism claiming the show was made for teenagers who need simple plots.
Let's take a look at the defintition of an elistist:
Elitism is the belief or attitude that some individuals who form an elite—a select group of people with a certain ancestry, intrinsic quality or worth, high intellect, wealth, specialized training or experience, or other distinctive attributes—are those whose influence or authority is greater than that of others; whose ...
I speculated over the target group on a discussion forum based on the fact that the characters and plot were simplistic w/ a similar story being used many times before. From my experience that typically attracts a yonger audience.
However, I never claimed that my opinion was more valuable than others. All I implied was that I wasn't the target group and usually I have been the target group for most of the 9+ rated IMDB shows, hence why I felt deceived.
So in the future please stick to focussing on the ball instead of the man. If you think I am wrong with my target group assesment (which I admittely was), then correct me.
It's a bad look.
What's a bad look? That I was wrong in my target group assesment or that I had a different opinion than yours and I am not allowed to have a different opinion? Everyone who has a different opinion than yours needs to be labelled an elitist?
Just telling you the tone of comment comes off as you thinking you are too good for the series. If you don't like criticism if the way you communicate, don't post things on the internet. Especially when you freely admit to skipping around and not watching it as intended. Considering complexity can be found in the nuance scene, choice in music, lighting, unspoken exchanges between actors. Since you have hamstrung your ability to assess the series by skipping around, you missed out on a lot of the touches that make the series is great.
If this was an academic discussion and someone tried to critique a book they had not complete read, they would be shut down instantly.
The way you talk comes off a bit arrogant Hider. It's funny how many people only care about plot/characters in movies/series when there's so much more going on in there. For me a good score that pairs well with the scenes it goes with can make me watch something by itself.
For those who have gotten through episode 3, can we talk about the cat scene and the amazing head tilt into awesome that takes place. Because whole fuck I cheer out loud when that shit happened.
And I am really disappointed in the internet for not having gifs of that shit on lop until the end of time.
The series has remarkable depth if you appreciate the production, stream lined plot and the films ability to explain alot with very littl
That's not really depth, but I don't deny that the show does do things well. It's just not what I am looking for in a show.
That's not really depth? Depth is subjective, in my opinion, and if the show comes "alive" for you, that's depth right there. Complex plot and dialogues is not depth on it's own. Too bad you didn't "get" the show, as in got-sucked-into-it
Ok i watched the rest and i have to say that overall i really enjoyed it even though i was not 100% happy how the plot developed at the end. The general ending was great though
On July 20 2016 22:28 Scarecrow wrote: Is it going to be like True Detectives and have a completely different cast/story for season 2?
That does not seem to be the case, but the directors have not really discussed much beyond “it would be fun to do another season. We have ideas and left some things unclear for that reason.” I bet they would keep some of the cast.
I cant even comprehend how you could in any way evaluate something when you skip 80% of it.
You see the start of a scene. Then you guess what happens afterwards. When you turn out to be correct almost everytime and most of the scenes are boring and stereotypical anyway, then you start skipping towards the end of every scene.
I'm only through episode 6 today but it feels kind of average to me. like good, I'm going to finish it, but I feel like I don't quite get the hype. I really had to push through eps 2-4.
I cant even comprehend how you could in any way evaluate something when you skip 80% of it.
You see the start of a scene. Then you guess what happens afterwards. When you turn out to be correct almost everytime and most of the scenes are boring and stereotypical anyway, then you start skipping towards the end of every scene.
People actually do this...?
i know some people who do this, and my mom does this also. a lot of people just want something running in the backround. white-noise, etc. i'll do this with streams that are chill.
people do this with esports teams and sports. like they'll tune in predicting that the chinese will lose and stick around just to see it happen, posting in the LR about how right they are in the meanwhile or using the result to further their argumentative agenda.
there were times where i felt it was a waste of time if i wasn't multitasking and listening to music or a podcast, watching something, and doing some calculations or something else in the meanwhile, all while playing a game in windowed mode. so much was taken out of each activity that it enabled me to stay attentive (or rather, less bored) while doing necessary ingame grinding or getting through subscriptions/sorting through things. it also meant that i had to go back and re-experience a lot of the finer things, often entirely missing the better parts due to ignorance or what have you.
my mom does the same with her ipad, phone and television dramas. she'll be doing stuff and watching at the same time, but not really watching. she is also a dirty scene skipper. the reason this stuck out to me is because i asked her why she was doing this or if she was really watching. all she had to say was that she knew what was happening. to be fair, soap-operas do tend to have less art to them.
however, the difference is that my mom and myself are doing this to multitask or to have something extra running at the same time, not specifically because we don't see the need to focus entirely on the one thing, which is watching the show.
i've recently just gotten back into tv-series and i feel the most compelling things are the ways in which production uses scenes to foreshadow and storytell, and facial expressions worn by the many actors (most usually the leads). if it's all in good taste, it's very gripping.
I'm liking this show quite a bit. 1 episode left to watch, very sad it's already coming to an end. It's certainly somewhat flawed but the good outweighs the bad pretty dramatically, they certainly get the atmosphere on point and IMO the acting is really really good.
The series was pretty good overall, great cast (felt like the actors matched the characters played), great acting (from everyone, natural, believable), really liked the soundtrack (adequate for the time period, not too loud or flashy or taking away from the actual scene), nice atmosphere (kept me connected throughout). There were a few inconsistencies, nothing too big though.
Great show, the best Netflix only series yet I think. From start to finish they had a vision and it played to the strengths of Netflix, really impressed.
I think a big part of it was growing up in the late 80s in suburban Ontario felt similar. I lived by the woods, we biked everywhere, my parents acted similarly, they captured the medium-town feel really well. Mixing in a bit of sci fi just resonated with my childhood imagination in ways only books seem to.
It was fun and enjoyable, and the child actors weren't annoying. That's probably the hardest thing to get right.
On July 18 2016 19:00 Kipsate wrote: is this show really scary or like Supernatural/Penny Dreadfull scary
im a puss.
The first half of the first episode is the "scariest" part of the series. There are more moments like that throughout the season, but most of them are more action oriented rather than fear driven like the first episode.
I think my favorite part was how three dimensional most of the characters were. There's a couple who fit into very obvious tropes, but for the most part they showed depth and room to grow. The obvious example are Steve and Jonathan. It would've been easy to play Steve off as the typical bad-boyfriend, but he's not and he was actually right when he was chastising Jonathan for being a creep.
It was really easy to root for just about every 'good' character, which is rare. Winona Rider's character was another that easily could've become derivative, but she's still a magnetic actress and the character had enough self-awareness of how crazy she was, not to mention compassion.
It's pretty obvious that a lot of thought and care went into creating the characters and the world. Apparently the Duffy brothers have 30 pages of details on the Upside Down world, and there's loads of DnD mythology buried in there.
i very much enjoyed it. the music was absolutely sick. i felt the acting on joyce's character could have been toned down a little, but it was still well done regardless. the kids were great, can't get much better than what they presented. overall it was very subtle and meaningful. my only real gripe is the delivery with the whole testing complex which made it look like a very barebones research facility. hopefully that part of the story gets fleshed out a bit in a second season as it gets closer to delivering some character deaths and the ultimate conclusion.
i enjoy that having teenage character makes for developments being easier or more acceptable. what i mean is that they can be more accepting of one another and afford to be more fickle with their emotions and actions. i believe all the kids in the show are 13 and the older kids are senior year.
What a great show. Solid plot and cast and atmosphere building. I only have some minor complaints for the CGI.
I am most amazed at how well the three very different age group (children, teenagers and adults) are managed. Each have their own shining moments and conflicts, most importantly none of them overshadow the other.
I actually wouldn't mind if they have whole new characters and location for second season just because I am confident of the production crew and the is series deserves a bigger world setting than a town.
This show was really great and concise to its message and intent. Characters, setting, atmosphere and overall plot was really clear, straightforward, free of filler, and open to a second season. I love all the nuances in the scenes, character interactions, and character growth. It seemed natural and strong, at least within the boundaries of the genre.
Favorite characters would probably be Jonathan, Hopper, and Eleven, though I cannot say anything overly negative towards any of the characters.
they never closed the case on Barb. They did show Hopper/Joyce see her within the Upside Down, presumably dead, but they never addressed it at the end, and didn't have Nancy show any effect from it.
Overall, really strong show with a load of future potential. Child actors were great, believable and really likable, and excited to see what they can do going forward. Keeping with the succint 8 episode seasons would be choice, and I hope they can continue the story without risk of it being watered down.
On August 23 2016 11:11 {ToT}ColmA wrote: good show - was surprised that i liked it, these days tv shows tend to blow
Really? I think we're in an golden era of television.
Anyway, this show was a pleasant surprise. I love that classic 80s' synthesizer soundtrack. It brings out feelings in me that no other type of music has been able to get me to feel.
One thing about this show that is underappreciated is the humor. So many good jokes hidden in this kinda horror scifi story.
Excellent acting all around. Great script. Beautiful camera work and sound. A few things in the last episode kind of meh but overall brilliant wrap up and good balance of information and unresolved points.
The show was great until it started getting unrealistic towards the end. 1. Why did they ever let the cop out of the facility the first time, much less let him go through the portal the second time? Because the gave him their "word"? Please. 2. How did the cop manage to knock out those three government agents near the bus that were armed to the teeth? Is he a part time ninja? 3. Why didn't the government agents listen in on the call to the science teacher and determine they were going to the school? 4. Why did bullets have no effect on that scrawny looking monster that had no armor or thick coat or anything? 5. Why did everyone just accept the fact that these girl had super powers within 5 seconds of hearing it and just went along with the salt water plan with no questions asked? 6. How did they manage to gather all the materials and build the water tank within a couple hours? 7. How did that kid survive in a toxic, cold, wet environment without any food for what seemed like a week? 8. How did the kid communicate via the wall of letters and lights when he couldn't see any of it and had no way of knowing that his actions were having any effect? 9. How does the other side mimic the real world? If I knock down a house in the real world does it change the other side and vice versa? If that's true then why wasn't the alien aware of earth before eleven made contact with him?
On September 01 2016 02:48 Hyperbola wrote: The show was great until it started getting unrealistic towards the end. 1. Why did they ever let the cop out of the facility the first time, much less let him go through the portal the second time? Because the gave him their "word"? Please.
In exchange for the location of 11, they figured he would just die in the Upside Down world, so they more or less considered him dead anyways. Win-win in their eyes, hes dead and they know were 11 is.
2. How did the cop manage to knock out those three government agents near the bus that were armed to the teeth? Is he a part time ninja?
Got the jump on them? He seems pretty competent I guess. I doubt he'd be able to take out three, but he seems to have gotten them via surprise.
3. Why didn't the government agents listen in on the call to the science teacher and determine they were going to the school?
Good point
4. Why did bullets have no effect on that scrawny looking monster that had no armor or thick coat or anything?
Why didn't it just dimension hop when it was being murdered by 11, I mean it dimension hopped when it was set on fire, right? Monster was pretty inconsistent.
5. Why did everyone just accept the fact that these girl had super powers within 5 seconds of hearing it and just went along with the salt water plan with no questions asked?
I think they'd all seen their share of crazy shit and were more or less willing to accept additional crazy shit. Cop saw the portal, Mom and Johnathon and Nancy had all seen the monster, whats one more crazy thing?
6. How did they manage to gather all the materials and build the water tank within a couple hours?
It wasn't that complicated right, a kiddie pool with salt in the water and some ducked taped goggles. Goggles probably came from inside the school, and its not hard to find a kiddie pool or salt, it was likely getting to be around winter time, and its pretty common for bags of salt for melting snow to be sold.
7. How did that kid survive in a toxic, cold, wet environment without any food for what seemed like a week?
He seemed like he was dying, I could kind of believe the no food part, but for having a "toxic atmosphere" (that Nancy seemed to be just fine in) and it being cold and wet I did figure he'd have just died of hypothermia.
8. How did the kid communicate via the wall of letters and lights when he couldn't see any of it and had no way of knowing that his actions were having any effect?
Good point.
9. How does the other side mimic the real world? If I knock down a house in the real world does it change the other side and vice versa? If that's true then why wasn't the alien aware of earth before eleven made contact with him?
Also weird, but I kind of accept this as something to be explained later, the rules of the Upside Down World are probably strange and specific.
Errrr.... I love the soundtrack to Stranger Things, I bought it in fact and the whole thing is ace. The main theme though... A bit too similar to this:
On September 01 2016 02:48 Hyperbola wrote: The show was great until it started getting unrealistic towards the end. 1. Why did they ever let the cop out of the facility the first time, much less let him go through the portal the second time? Because the gave him their "word"? Please. 2. How did the cop manage to knock out those three government agents near the bus that were armed to the teeth? Is he a part time ninja? 3. Why didn't the government agents listen in on the call to the science teacher and determine they were going to the school? 4. Why did bullets have no effect on that scrawny looking monster that had no armor or thick coat or anything? 5. Why did everyone just accept the fact that these girl had super powers within 5 seconds of hearing it and just went along with the salt water plan with no questions asked? 6. How did they manage to gather all the materials and build the water tank within a couple hours? 7. How did that kid survive in a toxic, cold, wet environment without any food for what seemed like a week? 8. How did the kid communicate via the wall of letters and lights when he couldn't see any of it and had no way of knowing that his actions were having any effect? 9. How does the other side mimic the real world? If I knock down a house in the real world does it change the other side and vice versa? If that's true then why wasn't the alien aware of earth before eleven made contact with him?
I think besides the first 2, and 7 you're overthinking it. It's not trying to be the most scientifically accurate scifi on the planet. It was a fun show.
just binged this one in entire day and oh my god, what a ride this show was..literally perfect setup for 80's ET esque style and with a perfect fitting substance. the most important character of the show was eleven, atleast for me.and that ending!!! .Was will spitting a snail and him seeing underworld was a sign that he is also on the way of becoming next monster? did the monster suck all other people he stole from real world or are they also going to be monsters? excited for season 2. pretty great acting for everyone involed (even smallest of characters)
The only thing that had me bummed is the relationship between jonathon and nancy. i would have liked her ending with jonathon rather than steve at the end. tho ,this is just season 1 and they would rather evolve this love thing in next season as they have shown her not soo happy about being with steve, she still looks like she cares a lot for johnathon .
if you want something very similar (90s style kids adventure) then watch the movie Super 8 (like, watch it right now lol!). watch the movie Tomorrowland too.
if you want more stuff with similar theme of escaping from an abusive facility, watch Gokukoku and Elfen Lied. these are both fantastic 13-episode stories with conclusive endings, unlike Stranger Things which definitely lost its way under promise of a second season IMO.
if you aren't watching it, West World is the other big show this year (let me know about others, i noticed walking ded is started)
Woah guys, I started watching this series yesterday. I can barely watch the episodes though, it's just too scary sometimes. Could someone tell me which episodes have the scariest moments? I am currently watching episode 4.
Looks decent. First season was pretty good up until halfway through where I thought it really went downhill fast, much in the way most horror movies do once they start excessively showing the monster/unknown. Kind of ruined the experience for me so I hope this season will be different
It is an RPG written and designed to play out the conflicts in the classed 1980s kids sci-fi movies. It switches between teh fantastical and banal nice, from all reviews. And the art work is beyond evocative. It is a great RPG for people who never tried one(though I would not recommend running it if you have never run games).
Just finished binging S2, it was really good. If you enjoyed the first season, let me tell you this, you're gonna need a bigger boat for this one because it will blow you right out of the water. The soundtrack was again stellar and it will feel like you'll be back in the 80's. The power of some of the scenes will compel you to stay glued to the screen and you'll want it to be a neverending story. Some of the throwbacks might seem basic but overall it pulls out quite well. Pacing is another strong point, there are some cold moments but the action and tension ramp up organically and by the end it turns to pure fire.
@Vindicare605 definitely a good cast choice. I was a bit skeptical at first but he managed to give life to his character super well.
Not much else to say just that it gets my rrrrecomandation + Show Spoiler +
Some of the fanservice (obviously not FANSERVICE) was a little over the top and too on the nose to objections or things fans wanted.
Putting Eleven in a cabin and then literally on a bus with her own story arc that also had very little to do with the climax of the season (beyond teaching her how to tap into the dark side to defeat the eye of Sauron) and instead planted s3 seeds, then neatly depositing her back in town right on time for the last episode felt pretty weird.
Then there's the utterly hilarious use of Barb (well, Barb's memory) as a vehicle to get Nancy and Jonathan to have sex, with the entire subplot having no effect whatsoever on the climax of the season to get a paragraph of news narration in the finale.
Some of the fanservice (obviously not FANSERVICE) was a little over the top and too on the nose to objections or things fans wanted.
Putting Eleven in a cabin and then literally on a bus with her own story arc that also had very little to do with the climax of the season (beyond teaching her how to tap into the dark side to defeat the eye of Sauron) and instead planted s3 seeds, then neatly depositing her back in town right on time for the last episode felt pretty weird.
Then there's the utterly hilarious use of Barb (well, Barb's memory) as a vehicle to get Nancy and Jonathan to have sex, with the entire subplot having no effect whatsoever on the climax of the season to get a paragraph of news narration in the finale.
I think the reason they did all that extra stuff with Eleven was to keep her out of the primary conflict until the end. She's obviously super powerful now and if she were involved from the get go there never would have been any real danger. Instead they took the opportunity to use her to set up where they can go with Season 3.
I think they took that route because they couldn't figure out how to properly write her into the Upside Down for the majority of the season without it feeling even worse. So instead we got treated to some training montages and she still showed up for the finale.
It's kind of like the DBZ problem all over again, if Goku can just solve everything right away it removes the sense of conflict and Eleven for how powerful she is fits that same problem. They're going to keep having to give her "side stuff" to do in order to keep her from just solving everything right away, or they can up the ante on the villains but that just makes it so that she's the ONLY person who can really do anything and that would detract greatly from the appeal of the other characters.
Some of the fanservice (obviously not FANSERVICE) was a little over the top and too on the nose to objections or things fans wanted.
Putting Eleven in a cabin and then literally on a bus with her own story arc that also had very little to do with the climax of the season (beyond teaching her how to tap into the dark side to defeat the eye of Sauron) and instead planted s3 seeds, then neatly depositing her back in town right on time for the last episode felt pretty weird.
Then there's the utterly hilarious use of Barb (well, Barb's memory) as a vehicle to get Nancy and Jonathan to have sex, with the entire subplot having no effect whatsoever on the climax of the season to get a paragraph of news narration in the finale.
I think the reason they did all that extra stuff with Eleven was to keep her out of the primary conflict until the end. She's obviously super powerful now and if she were involved from the get go there never would have been any real danger. Instead they took the opportunity to use her to set up where they can go with Season 3.
I think they took that route because they couldn't figure out how to properly write her into the Upside Down for the majority of the season without it feeling even worse. So instead we got treated to some training montages and she still showed up for the finale.
It's kind of like the DBZ problem all over again, if Goku can just solve everything right away it removes the sense of conflict and Eleven for how powerful she is fits that same problem. They're going to keep having to give her "side stuff" to do in order to keep her from just solving everything right away, or they can up the ante on the villains but that just makes it so that she's the ONLY person who can really do anything and that would detract greatly from the appeal of the other characters.
I just think there ought to have been other ways to stop her being a game breaker, like using her powers to dissolve the monster and being transported into the Upside-Down had drained her powers substantially last season. Think about how interesting it would have been to see her cope with basically losing a limb; it would also have meant her exertions last finale actually had a cost, rather than just "oh let's walk over to that exit over there."
It just seems like there were ways that would still have allowed her to have a role in the A plot of the series besides being a last-minute McGuffin.
Still, most of her scenes worked well enough, and her interactions with Hopper felt really genuine. Just...not episode 7. At least for me.
I'm four episodes in, so I won't be reading any spoilers. The GF and I are going to watch the rest later tonight. Fantastic show imo.
One thing I find confusing is how they managed to get like 20 actors who nobody has ever heard from (I only know Wynona Ryder and the fat lad who's shaggin' her this season) and get such consistently great acting out of them. I can't recall a single dialogue that made me cringe or go 'yeah, I don't but that at all'.
Wynona was unbelievable in Season 1, and even the child actors were really believable.
On October 29 2017 02:22 mortyFromRickAndMort wrote: I'm four episodes in, so I won't be reading any spoilers. The GF and I are going to watch the rest later tonight. Fantastic show imo.
One thing I find confusing is how they managed to get like 20 actors who nobody has ever heard from (I only know Wynona Ryder and the fat lad who's shaggin' her this season) and get such consistently great acting out of them. I can't recall a single dialogue that made me cringe or go 'yeah, I don't but that at all'.
Wynona was unbelievable in Season 1, and even the child actors were really believable.
I think its incredible how they managed to find so many good actors, but not unheard of.
How they managed to find a complete cast of good (unknown) child actors is beyond me. Must be incredible directing.
i'm not hard to please so for me it's a great success at the moment they kept everything that made the season 1 something i liked a lot , even if it's the damn purpose of stranger things, it's how the show is structured as a video games haha - we went to half life to resident evil with hopper as chris redfield real quick
also how the different panel are like levels in a video games, rarely been so apparent
also i agree, these unknown actors turned out really good, even if they are young they are really talented
We're finished with season two, one remark about some of the spoiler content here: + Show Spoiler +
We were much less certain than you guys seem to be about a new season. The only hint we found was that the shadow spooky bro was still in the Upside Down, but why does that matter if there isn't a portal?
Second 'hint' was 009, but meh...
Also, the moment I saw Bob, I knew he was going to die because he's unattractive and needed to make room for Hopper.
On October 31 2017 00:22 mortyFromRickAndMort wrote: We're finished with season two, one remark about some of the spoiler content here: + Show Spoiler +
We were much less certain than you guys seem to be about a new season. The only hint we found was that the shadow spooky bro was still in the Upside Down, but why does that matter if there isn't a portal?
Second 'hint' was 009, but meh...
Also, the moment I saw Bob, I knew he was going to die because he's unattractive and needed to make room for Hopper.
I thought maybe they'd save Bob and have him run away, but then his last name was Newby and you knew.
There's other dangling threads... Dr. Brenner is alive (supposedly), and more mundanely we've left Max, her Brother, Steve, and a few other characters without really complete resolutions.
But I really hope this is an intentional trilogy. The show suffers from the escalating power problem and it's ok for now, but there's really not that much room to keep escalating from here on out without things going over the top.
On October 31 2017 00:22 mortyFromRickAndMort wrote: We're finished with season two, one remark about some of the spoiler content here: + Show Spoiler +
We were much less certain than you guys seem to be about a new season. The only hint we found was that the shadow spooky bro was still in the Upside Down, but why does that matter if there isn't a portal?
Second 'hint' was 009, but meh...
Also, the moment I saw Bob, I knew he was going to die because he's unattractive and needed to make room for Hopper.
I thought maybe they'd save Bob and have him run away, but then his last name was Newby and you knew.
There's other dangling threads... Dr. Brenner is alive (supposedly), and more mundanely we've left Max, her Brother, Steve, and a few other characters without really complete resolutions.
I thought the last couple of minutes were supposed to wrap up all those threads. Max: she's the boss now and her brother leaves her alone. Steve: realises he's lost her and drives away. And I figured the Dr. Brenner thing was a ploy from that guy to save his own skin.
On October 31 2017 00:22 mortyFromRickAndMort wrote: We're finished with season two, one remark about some of the spoiler content here: + Show Spoiler +
We were much less certain than you guys seem to be about a new season. The only hint we found was that the shadow spooky bro was still in the Upside Down, but why does that matter if there isn't a portal?
Second 'hint' was 009, but meh...
Also, the moment I saw Bob, I knew he was going to die because he's unattractive and needed to make room for Hopper.
I thought maybe they'd save Bob and have him run away, but then his last name was Newby and you knew.
There's other dangling threads... Dr. Brenner is alive (supposedly), and more mundanely we've left Max, her Brother, Steve, and a few other characters without really complete resolutions.
I thought the last couple of minutes were supposed to wrap up all those threads. Max: she's the boss now and her brother leaves her alone. Steve: realises he's lost her and drives away. And I figured the Dr. Brenner thing was a ploy from that guy to save his own skin.
They never really wrap up Max/Mike's relationship (is she in the party?). Also like yeah Max is the boss now, but with her step brother being a racist is he going to really keep letting Max and Lucas get closer? Steve is sort of wrapped up, I guess, but it'd be a very uh discarded ending for someone who kinda showed a lot of growth over the season.
But I agree in some sense, it doesn't feel like there *has* to be another season which is nice.
tricked me. When I first saw them, I swore that Billy was another escaped gifted child, except he was an earlier project, and thus he was much more mentally unstable, while Max was a newer one, sticking together. Turns out, Billy is literally just a fucking asshole, who didn't seem to mind he was going to run over 3 middle schoolers.
On October 31 2017 00:52 sung_moon wrote: Yea, Max and Billy + Show Spoiler +
tricked me. When I first saw them, I swore that Billy was another escaped gifted child, except he was an earlier project, and thus he was much more mentally unstable, while Max was a newer one, sticking together. Turns out, Billy is literally just a fucking asshole, who didn't seem to mind he was going to run over 3 middle schoolers.
I did too, I thought maybe we'd find out Max and/or Billy was like #4 or something, but turns out Billy's really just a giant douche and his parents are as negligent as everyone else's.
I also really liked some things from this season that were uh not subtle, but well handled. Billy's racism was one of them, but also the way they work Guten's (Dustin's) condition into the show in a way that's not heavy handed or outright "feel bad for this guy" or how uh most of the kid's parents are really just not there as parental figures (Mike's and Max/Billy's at least).
Yeah we had good chuckles throughout both seasons about how completely indifferent / oblivious Mike's and Nancy's parents are. Their children are constantly gone with nary an excuse and the parents don't mind in the slightest.
it was the 80s. i feel this was not out of the norm back in the day when people let kids stroll off to a friends house up the block without any real fear.
So you don't want a show that was supposed to last 12 episode add 12 more for the first season, then add three more seasons, then add a film in which they ruin the main character's sacrifice, then kill the main character, then pretend he never died in a fifth season ten years later?
Finally finished season 2. Have to say I really enjoyed the season except for episode 7. I guess the episode was needed for El's development, but I felt it came at a time I was much more interested to know what was happening in Hawkins. Every other episode was stellar, and I still love how they managed to make the usual stereotype pretty boy one of the most likable characters in the series. I hope he catches a break though next season, he really needs a win.
On October 31 2017 01:20 brian wrote: it was the 80s. i feel this was not out of the norm back in the day when people let kids stroll off to a friends house up the block without any real fear.
Not just in the US either, my father likes to joke about how neglectful my grandparents sometimes were.
Finally finished season 2. Have to say I really enjoyed the season except for episode 7. I guess the episode was needed for El's development, but I felt it came at a time I was much more interested to know what was happening in Hawkins. Every other episode was stellar, and I still love how they managed to make the usual stereotype pretty boy one of the most likable characters in the series. I hope he catches a break though next season, he really needs a win.
In general I think the show does a great job of taking characters based on stereotypical 80s characters and then giving them dimension or other attributes that make them both more human.
I find Steve, Nance, and Hopkins do that particularly well, but even Bob Newby this season was like that (he was the typical 80s bumbling fool, but then he was pretty knowledgable and when things going serious he was able to be a solid likable and competent character).
Btw what's everyone take on Billy? I've heard people thinking he's a bigot who abuses his stepsister, and others who think he's actually gay. I'm leaning towards the latter.
Corny and predictable. Really glad when it was over, because of that. Still the atmosphere was nice. Solid 7/10. Prob not gonna watch another season though.
Holy shit guys I'm so disappointed and upset with this season. I almost wrote an essay just on how bad Bob Newby's character/plotline was, not to mention the other new shitty characters, all the loose ends (good job guaranteeing a S3 I guess?), predictable plot twists, forced jokes, spoonfed information, AGHHHH IT WAS SO BAD
To its credit, the music/environment was as good as ever and those kids are awesome together. Still an entertaining show for what it was, but it suuuuuuper underperformed IMO.
Bleh... maybe I'll break down my thoughts later. I need to rant.
Really liked the first half, but at the end it just felt apart from me, still well worth the watch. Also I never thought Billy as a racists, for me he just didn't like the kid. Maybe I just don't care about skincolor that much to see it.
The shadow that crept out of Will still has a foothold in this world right? Maybe he'll creep into eleven or mindcontrol someone else to fix the portal back up.
finally finished it, i have no complaints. i didn’t find it particularly predictable. it was very straightforward for sure, it’s a simple story. but as well done as ever. + Show Spoiler +
billy having some depth didn’t make him any more palatable. knowing why he’s an asshole doesn’t make him not an asshole. bobs death was the only thing i predicted from the start. that seemed too obvious, but it was at least a more entertaining scene than i expected. i’m wondering if the smoke monster being at the dance is a sign of him following Will, or Eleven!? and omg when Dustin put his hair up LOL what a cute kid jfc. great scene all around, a nearly perfect wrap. i’m so used to harder cliff hangers though that it seems too final. not enough room to play with in the off season.
i don’t think i saw the 009 someone had mentioned earlier. what scene was that?
i’m seeing a lot of Bob Newby hero memes, but i mean, Steve was the real hero this season. that kid has balls of fucking STEEL. first just going out the bus to take that one on head to head? then punching Billy? THEN going into the hole? what an animal.
I'm hoping Billy gets a better story in S3. He was fun in that he's a stereotypical 80s character, but he was also *just* a stereotypical 80s character. The only reason I don't really have complaints about it is I really like how they handled his racism/treatment of Lucas.
@crappen Except he knew *nothing* about Lucas other than he was black and he only called him out without ever giving a reason for why he was a problem, when he found Max hanging out with everyone he didn't have a problem with Dustin or Mike. He *only* had a problem with Lucas. I'd also think him listening to Ted Nugent was another nod/tell to let people who what was intended.
This season was pretty good. I think the seventh episode was a mess and I really hope they keep the story grounded in their established world. I was disappointed with max and her brother; they didn’t impact the plot until the end and it felt awkward. The antagonist this season was also a slow burn, and didn’t really impact the real world the same way season one broke in to our dimension immediately, so that didn’t work out as well for me.
I think overall it’s still one of the better shows on TV and they seem to have a solid vision that they work with. It’s quintessential 80s/90s - Spielberg, Stephen King, ghostbusters, exorcist, gremlins. I don’t think there’s much sense in looking for any added value other than that.
I also get the impression that the nostalgia doesn’t work for those who grew up outside North America, or grew up in the late 90s. That’s a lot of TL readership I think
Basically it's not like a Deus Exs Machina or some sort of magical solution that gets everyone out of a tough situation. It's not like Dart took the Nougat and led all the other demodogs away or anything, the scene was *only* dart so he was only there in the first place for this specific scene/purpose.
So for how over the top it is, the scene doesn't "infect" the plot or the rest of the story other than maybe some insight into how the hivemind works (they seem to still have some autonomy). In that way I think it works, it's a cheeky over the top nod to other 80s references (ET and Goonies) that was a cute wrap up of the Dart storyline, but it wasn't some device shoed in to solve a plot issue. You could cut that scene and the entire episode would still work the same except you'd have no real conclusion to Dart.
I like Max's character and how she fit into the story (Billy's character less so since he's kind of a walking movie stereotype). I get that she doesn't meaningfully impact the plot until the end (and even then), but that's one of the things I sort of like about the show. Characters and things like this tend to make the show feel more humanized and less produced. I enjoy the way that these characters still feel like they exist in a normal daily life while these supernatural events are happening. Too many modern shows/things now tend to like isolate the events of the story so much that the characters feel like they exist only for the story. In Stranger Things everyone feels like they're actually part of a relatively normal daily routine that goes on. And one, very normal, part of that is the guys meeting a new person who becomes their friend.
On November 02 2017 19:58 crappen wrote: Really liked the first half, but at the end it just felt apart from me, still well worth the watch. Also I never thought Billy as a racists, for me he just didn't like the kid. Maybe I just don't care about skincolor that much to see it.
This is just one example of the lack of depth, unexplored possibilities in this season IMO. All we have to go on is Lucas's appearance; as far as I remember, Billy never observed Lucas doing anything wrong (which would have been SO easy to write in when they were "stalking" Max, his love of DnD and the "stay away from that satanic nerd" angle, etc).
Billy just.. looked at Lucas and said he was bad news. This sells us on Billy being a shallow piece of shit, but it feels like such a lazily written side story. Imagine if Billy overheard Lucas talking about demogorgons and mind flyers and sees Will spazzing out in the field when the shadow monster possesses him. Now we have a violent asshole who has a REASON to be a violent asshole.
On November 02 2017 19:58 crappen wrote: Really liked the first half, but at the end it just felt apart from me, still well worth the watch. Also I never thought Billy as a racists, for me he just didn't like the kid. Maybe I just don't care about skincolor that much to see it.
This is just one example of the lack of depth, unexplored possibilities in this season IMO. All we have to go on is Lucas's appearance; as far as I remember, Billy never observed Lucas doing anything wrong (which would have been SO easy to write in when they were "stalking" Max, his love of DnD and the "stay away from that satanic nerd" angle, etc).
Billy just.. looked at Lucas and said he was bad news. This sells us on Billy being a shallow piece of shit, but it feels like such a lazily written side story. Imagine if Billy overheard Lucas talking about demogorgons and mind flyers and sees Will spazzing out in the field when the shadow monster possesses him. Now we have a violent asshole who has a REASON to be a violent asshole.
Which is ultimately such a shame, one of the things I really enjoy about Stranger Things is how they subvery so many of my expectations from the movies it's replicating/paying homages to.
On November 02 2017 19:58 crappen wrote: Really liked the first half, but at the end it just felt apart from me, still well worth the watch. Also I never thought Billy as a racists, for me he just didn't like the kid. Maybe I just don't care about skincolor that much to see it.
This is just one example of the lack of depth, unexplored possibilities in this season IMO. All we have to go on is Lucas's appearance; as far as I remember, Billy never observed Lucas doing anything wrong (which would have been SO easy to write in when they were "stalking" Max, his love of DnD and the "stay away from that satanic nerd" angle, etc).
Billy just.. looked at Lucas and said he was bad news. This sells us on Billy being a shallow piece of shit, but it feels like such a lazily written side story. Imagine if Billy overheard Lucas talking about demogorgons and mind flyers and sees Will spazzing out in the field when the shadow monster possesses him. Now we have a violent asshole who has a REASON to be a violent asshole.
I disagree, there's plenty of supernatural in the show already. What makes the show good is how seamlessly it mixes in the more mundane elements so the characters fit into the world rather than it being a stage. Billy's opposition being rooted in the mundane makes it a much better plot than if he didn't like Lucas because he was suspicious of the supernaturally focused stuff.
Billy being racist (over disliking nerds/stalker) works because it fits into the world that way. And the interaction is better for it. Rather than be a stereotypical setup or Billy being out and out racist (both common ways to do this sort of thing) we get a better more down to earth look at it and something that feels much more authentic and real. Billy gets to be a racist without saying a single overtly racist thing. Part of the ambiguity is what makes it also feel real and feels much more like how otherwise reasonable people are racist in real life. It feels like a much better and more interesting plot point that it's done the way it is (and people can feel different ways about it).
I'm hoping Billy gets a better story in S3. He was fun in that he's a stereotypical 80s character, but he was also *just* a stereotypical 80s character. The only reason I don't really have complaints about it is I really like how they handled his racism/treatment of Lucas.
I think (hope) Jonathan and Nancy are off to college in S3. So with those two out of the way I think there is plenty of story in store for Billy (and mrs. Wheeler).
On November 02 2017 19:58 crappen wrote: Really liked the first half, but at the end it just felt apart from me, still well worth the watch. Also I never thought Billy as a racists, for me he just didn't like the kid. Maybe I just don't care about skincolor that much to see it.
This is just one example of the lack of depth, unexplored possibilities in this season IMO. All we have to go on is Lucas's appearance; as far as I remember, Billy never observed Lucas doing anything wrong (which would have been SO easy to write in when they were "stalking" Max, his love of DnD and the "stay away from that satanic nerd" angle, etc).
Billy just.. looked at Lucas and said he was bad news. This sells us on Billy being a shallow piece of shit, but it feels like such a lazily written side story. Imagine if Billy overheard Lucas talking about demogorgons and mind flyers and sees Will spazzing out in the field when the shadow monster possesses him. Now we have a violent asshole who has a REASON to be a violent asshole.
I disagree, there's plenty of supernatural in the show already. What makes the show good is how seamlessly it mixes in the more mundane elements so the characters fit into the world rather than it being a stage. Billy's opposition being rooted in the mundane makes it a much better plot than if he didn't like Lucas because he was suspicious of the supernaturally focused stuff.
Billy being racist (over disliking nerds/stalker) works because it fits into the world that way. And the interaction is better for it. Rather than be a stereotypical setup or Billy being out and out racist (both common ways to do this sort of thing) we get a better more down to earth look at it and something that feels much more authentic and real. Billy gets to be a racist without saying a single overtly racist thing. Part of the ambiguity is what makes it also feel real and feels much more like how otherwise reasonable people are racist in real life. It feels like a much better and more interesting plot point that it's done the way it is (and people can feel different ways about it).
I'm not asking for more supernatural. I'm fine with Billy being racist. But they never explored it at ALL. In fact, we don't even really know if he was actually racist. It's implied, mostly because he knew absolutely nothing about Lucas other than his physical appearance would suggest, but never actually explained at all.
Maybe they could have written it in so Billy and Max moved to Hawkins because Billy was expelled from school for beating up some black kids? Then, once we establish he really IS racist and violent, we have reason to fear for Lucas's safety as he chases after Max. Yay, tension!
Billy was just a shitty character, man. What purpose did he actually serve? He made me feel bad for Max, but Max wasn't exactly an important player in the story either. Her only real purpose was to create a rift between Dustin and Lucas, but that rift just didn't have nearly as much weight as it did in S1 with Eleven's introduction into the group. It really felt like Lucas was done back then. So Billy was ultimately just a shitty plot vehicle to transition into another shitty plot vehicle.
I mean, Max and Billy's family dynamic is by all means interesting and heart wrenching, but you can completely delete these characters and literally nothing changes, for better or for worse. Neither one of them successfully helps/hinders the journey at any point. They're fillers.
S1 drew a lot of inspiration from 80s pop culture, but the Duffer brothers did a great job of adapting those references into something of their own. I know the show banks on how much we love the 80s environment, but Billy was about as stereotypical/cookie-cutter as an 80s bully trope can get. Not to sound rude, but I don't get how you can find that refreshing at all?
On November 02 2017 19:58 crappen wrote: Really liked the first half, but at the end it just felt apart from me, still well worth the watch. Also I never thought Billy as a racists, for me he just didn't like the kid. Maybe I just don't care about skincolor that much to see it.
This is just one example of the lack of depth, unexplored possibilities in this season IMO. All we have to go on is Lucas's appearance; as far as I remember, Billy never observed Lucas doing anything wrong (which would have been SO easy to write in when they were "stalking" Max, his love of DnD and the "stay away from that satanic nerd" angle, etc).
Billy just.. looked at Lucas and said he was bad news. This sells us on Billy being a shallow piece of shit, but it feels like such a lazily written side story. Imagine if Billy overheard Lucas talking about demogorgons and mind flyers and sees Will spazzing out in the field when the shadow monster possesses him. Now we have a violent asshole who has a REASON to be a violent asshole.
I disagree, there's plenty of supernatural in the show already. What makes the show good is how seamlessly it mixes in the more mundane elements so the characters fit into the world rather than it being a stage. Billy's opposition being rooted in the mundane makes it a much better plot than if he didn't like Lucas because he was suspicious of the supernaturally focused stuff.
Billy being racist (over disliking nerds/stalker) works because it fits into the world that way. And the interaction is better for it. Rather than be a stereotypical setup or Billy being out and out racist (both common ways to do this sort of thing) we get a better more down to earth look at it and something that feels much more authentic and real. Billy gets to be a racist without saying a single overtly racist thing. Part of the ambiguity is what makes it also feel real and feels much more like how otherwise reasonable people are racist in real life. It feels like a much better and more interesting plot point that it's done the way it is (and people can feel different ways about it).
I'm not asking for more supernatural. I'm fine with Billy being racist. But they never explored it at ALL. In fact, we don't even really know if he was actually racist. It's implied, mostly because he knew absolutely nothing about Lucas other than his physical appearance would suggest, but never actually explained at all.
Maybe they could have written it in so Billy and Max moved to Hawkins because Billy was expelled from school for beating up some black kids? Then, once we establish he really IS racist and violent, we have reason to fear for Lucas's safety as he chases after Max. Yay, tension!
Billy was just a shitty character, man. What purpose did he actually serve? He made me feel bad for Max, but Max wasn't exactly an important player in the story either. Her only real purpose was to create a rift between Dustin and Lucas, but that rift just didn't have nearly as much weight as it did in S1 with Eleven's introduction into the group. It really felt like Lucas was done back then. So Billy was ultimately just a shitty plot vehicle to transition into another shitty plot vehicle.
I mean, Max and Billy's family dynamic is by all means interesting and heart wrenching, but you can completely delete these characters and literally nothing changes, for better or for worse. Neither one of them successfully helps/hinders the journey at any point. They're fillers.
S1 drew a lot of inspiration from 80s pop culture, but the Duffer brothers did a great job of adapting those references into something of their own. I know the show banks on how much we love the 80s environment, but Billy was about as stereotypical/cookie-cutter as an 80s bully trope can get. Not to sound rude, but I don't get how you can find that refreshing at all?
Billy was just a shitty character, man. What purpose did he actually serve?
I don't really disagree with this part.
But I like that it left some of these things only sort of explored. We think Billy is a racist (or he is one), but it didn't feel like his character revolved around it which I appreciated; he had an identity that was more than just being racist. I find that a lot of shows tend to define their character too much on that one important thing about them and I enjoy that Stranger Things sidestepped that with Billy's implied racism. As a follow on to that I appreciate it with Max too in that she's not defined as a wedge between the characters and was allowed to exist as a character. I get why it's a bit weird, and really is a very valid criticism, but I really enjoyed it as a breath of fresh air that Stranger Things is willing to allow some characters to just kind of exist in their world for reasons other than driving specific plot beats along.
I think (hope) Jonathan and Nancy are off to college in S3. So with those two out of the way I think there is plenty of story in store for Billy (and mrs. Wheeler).
Nancy and Jonathan are juniors, Steve is a senior (hence the whole car scene where Steve mentions sticking around for Nancy). Well, Nancy is definitely a junior, I can't remember if Jonathan is canonically one.
On November 03 2017 02:51 ahw wrote: I also get the impression that the nostalgia doesn’t work for those who grew up outside North America, or grew up in the late 90s. That’s a lot of TL readership I think
Well it's working for me for some reason, although I grew up in 90s Germany. Show has a cool flavour to it and reminds me of a time where life wasn't as hectic as today. Also I didn't grew up that differently. Sure, we had game boys and stuff but internet and cell phones weren't really a big thing. If we wanted to meet our buddies we still had to call their parents, ride our bikes to their homes or check the hangout spots.
On November 02 2017 19:58 crappen wrote: Really liked the first half, but at the end it just felt apart from me, still well worth the watch. Also I never thought Billy as a racists, for me he just didn't like the kid. Maybe I just don't care about skincolor that much to see it.
This is just one example of the lack of depth, unexplored possibilities in this season IMO. All we have to go on is Lucas's appearance; as far as I remember, Billy never observed Lucas doing anything wrong (which would have been SO easy to write in when they were "stalking" Max, his love of DnD and the "stay away from that satanic nerd" angle, etc).
Billy just.. looked at Lucas and said he was bad news. This sells us on Billy being a shallow piece of shit, but it feels like such a lazily written side story. Imagine if Billy overheard Lucas talking about demogorgons and mind flyers and sees Will spazzing out in the field when the shadow monster possesses him. Now we have a violent asshole who has a REASON to be a violent asshole.
I disagree, there's plenty of supernatural in the show already. What makes the show good is how seamlessly it mixes in the more mundane elements so the characters fit into the world rather than it being a stage. Billy's opposition being rooted in the mundane makes it a much better plot than if he didn't like Lucas because he was suspicious of the supernaturally focused stuff.
Billy being racist (over disliking nerds/stalker) works because it fits into the world that way. And the interaction is better for it. Rather than be a stereotypical setup or Billy being out and out racist (both common ways to do this sort of thing) we get a better more down to earth look at it and something that feels much more authentic and real. Billy gets to be a racist without saying a single overtly racist thing. Part of the ambiguity is what makes it also feel real and feels much more like how otherwise reasonable people are racist in real life. It feels like a much better and more interesting plot point that it's done the way it is (and people can feel different ways about it).
I'm not asking for more supernatural. I'm fine with Billy being racist. But they never explored it at ALL. In fact, we don't even really know if he was actually racist. It's implied, mostly because he knew absolutely nothing about Lucas other than his physical appearance would suggest, but never actually explained at all.
Maybe they could have written it in so Billy and Max moved to Hawkins because Billy was expelled from school for beating up some black kids? Then, once we establish he really IS racist and violent, we have reason to fear for Lucas's safety as he chases after Max. Yay, tension!
Billy was just a shitty character, man. What purpose did he actually serve? He made me feel bad for Max, but Max wasn't exactly an important player in the story either. Her only real purpose was to create a rift between Dustin and Lucas, but that rift just didn't have nearly as much weight as it did in S1 with Eleven's introduction into the group. It really felt like Lucas was done back then. So Billy was ultimately just a shitty plot vehicle to transition into another shitty plot vehicle.
I mean, Max and Billy's family dynamic is by all means interesting and heart wrenching, but you can completely delete these characters and literally nothing changes, for better or for worse. Neither one of them successfully helps/hinders the journey at any point. They're fillers.
S1 drew a lot of inspiration from 80s pop culture, but the Duffer brothers did a great job of adapting those references into something of their own. I know the show banks on how much we love the 80s environment, but Billy was about as stereotypical/cookie-cutter as an 80s bully trope can get. Not to sound rude, but I don't get how you can find that refreshing at all?
Billy was just a shitty character, man. What purpose did he actually serve?
I don't really disagree with this part.
But I like that it left some of these things only sort of explored. We think Billy is a racist (or he is one), but it didn't feel like his character revolved around it which I appreciated; he had an identity that was more than just being racist. I find that a lot of shows tend to define their character too much on that one important thing about them and I enjoy that Stranger Things sidestepped that with Billy's implied racism. As a follow on to that I appreciate it with Max too in that she's not defined as a wedge between the characters and was allowed to exist as a character. I get why it's a bit weird, and really is a very valid criticism, but I really enjoyed it as a breath of fresh air that Stranger Things is willing to allow some characters to just kind of exist in their world for reasons other than driving specific plot beats along.
That's the thing though, the racism doesn't need to be the sole focus of Billy's existence, but it could have been used as a means to add real weight to his character (and to the story in general). This season was supposed to "up the stakes," right? What better way to do that than by adding the human element of battling a violent, volatile monster in this world while simultaneously trying to save Will from the supernatural monster in the other world?
But nah, Billy is nonexistent until the very end, when he upgrades to "minor inconvenience" because his fight with Steve didn't alter any plans, didn't end up hurting Will at all, while Max was able to conveniently step in and drive the boys to the distraction site while Steve was KO'd because every single "puzzle" in this season apparently needed to be solved in 5 minutes or less*.
*[I'm getting off-topic here, but think about the sequence when they're asking Will to explain his "now memories": Will can't find the words to explain his visions? Don't worry, Mom quickly solves that by asking him to draw what he sees. Can't figure out what the drawings actually are? Don't worry, Mom realizes the sheets overlap. Can't figure out what the whole creation actually means? Don't worry, Bob recognizes the landmarks and figures out how to pinpoint their next destination.
It's a good display of Joyce's strong bond with Will and her ability to communicate/work with him (which is endearing and fun to watch), but we, the audience, never had time to feel confused, to participate in the journey. Any time the next challenge was presented to us, it was quickly solved without any real tension being built. It's like being on those rail-guided Disneyland tours; it's cute, but it's not challenging me at all. Not like S1 did.]
I get that this season is setting up a lot of fun things for S3, but it didn't need to be this hollow IMO.
The show is very much about atmosphere. So we knew the atmosphere from season 1, which was mostly celebrated. In terms of depth, the show doesn't offer much and that's why the second season feels pretty much more of the same.
Season 3 just dropped today and woah is Episode one a doozy. Fits the formula of success the show has been working with. As always though every character gets their own little sub plot within the arching plot of their "age group." Some of them seem more enticing than others right now, (i just started episode 2) but I'm already hooked back in.
On July 05 2019 10:45 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote: Finished the entire season. I'd give it 8/10.
Seems fair to me.
It stays fairly true to the formula throughout which makes it a little predictable BUT, it has enough twists and turns to make it worthwhile for even a dedicated fan.
The nostalgia points, setting and of course the acting still holds up to the hype, and the overall plot and story is entertaining throughout.
I could nitpick here and there, but my overall impression was very positive. I'd put this season on par with Season 1 if not slightly above it, and definitely a notch above Season 2.
On July 05 2019 10:45 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote: Finished the entire season. I'd give it 8/10.
Seems fair to me.
It stays fairly true to the formula throughout which makes it a little predictable BUT, it has enough twists and turns to make it worthwhile for even a dedicated fan.
The nostalgia points, setting and of course the acting still holds up to the hype, and the overall plot and story is entertaining throughout.
I could nitpick here and there, but my overall impression was very positive. I'd put this season on par with Season 1 if not slightly above it, and definitely a notch above Season 2.
Basically my opinion on the matter as well. The last episode kind of just threw me for a ride.
I was actually annoyed by the first episode. I don't necessarily want a throwback to '80s style of sitcom/movie tropes though, so yeah. Perhaps it really was so corny in those days.. + Show Spoiler +
The scene where Hopper asks for advice and the following one where he tries to enact the parenting is just so overdone at this point it really made my eyeballs roll
On July 05 2019 10:45 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote: Finished the entire season. I'd give it 8/10.
That's pretty generous. Most of the characters in this show are pretty bland and generic, I guess it's primarily due to most of them being kids, so by definition they didn't live long enough to develop any meaningful personality or experience life as we know it. All the school love drama is pretty much just filler material. It also doesn't help that the characters make pretty much the worst possible decisions for the situation they're in most of the time.
First season had the mystery going for it. Second season was interesting because some bigger parts of the mystery were revealed. This season is running pretty much on nostalgia and music alone since story is nothing to write home about and characters are run of the mill tropes. Couple that with copious amounts of product placement, decisions that warrant at least a facepalm and you'll arrive at a score of 3-4/10.
In my opinion this series is going downhill pretty fast and I'm not sure I will gather the stamina to go through the next season.
On July 05 2019 23:48 Uldridge wrote: I was actually annoyed by the first episode. I don't necessarily want a throwback to '80s style of sitcom/movie tropes though, so yeah. Perhaps it really was so corny in those days.. + Show Spoiler +
The scene where Hopper asks for advice and the following one where he tries to enact the parenting is just so overdone at this point it really made my eyeballs roll
until the end of the season when El was reading it. It was emotional manipulation straight out of Interstellar, but it still got me good.
Worst part of the season was shilling Coke, complete with a 1 minute break from the action to do so in the 2nd to last episode. Otherwise it was fine enough, even if Nancy and Jonathan are kind of pointless as always.
On July 05 2019 23:48 Uldridge wrote: I was actually annoyed by the first episode. I don't necessarily want a throwback to '80s style of sitcom/movie tropes though, so yeah. Perhaps it really was so corny in those days.. + Show Spoiler +
The scene where Hopper asks for advice and the following one where he tries to enact the parenting is just so overdone at this point it really made my eyeballs roll
until the end of the season when El was reading it. It was emotional manipulation straight out of Interstellar, but it still got me good.
Worst part of the season was shilling Coke, complete with a 1 minute break from the action to do so in the 2nd to last episode. Otherwise it was fine enough, even if Nancy and Jonathan are kind of pointless as always.
that scene reminded me of that "new is always better" from himym
I liked season 3 more than season 2. I think season 3 is strong.
I imagine they will get renewed for another season, but I don't really see a good way for the series to continue on. It reached a solid enough conclusion for me.
Season 2 felt like it tried to leave threads for a larger world building which didn't seem all that good to me, season 3 returned to a little more tight knit story (immediately getting to the main elements in episode 1) and executed that story. If it goes on further, they'd have to lean back into more of the larger world building which I could see turning into a very messy situation.
On July 08 2019 12:37 N.geNuity wrote: I liked season 3 more than season 2. I think season 3 is strong.
I imagine they will get renewed for another season, but I don't really see a good way for the series to continue on. It reached a solid enough conclusion for me.
With 4 of the main characters leaving Hawkins and another one dead(ish), the only logical place for the series to go is to move settings and I just don't know how well that would work.
This really does feel like a conclusive end to the primary plot. If it continues from here it would either be weird, or feel like a spin off.
I started Stranger Things less than a week ago. I can’t believe this thread only has seven pages!
I acknowledge the bad guys being kind of random etc. in this season but I honestly couldn’t give less of a fuck. For me this show has been first and foremost about watching these awesome kids learn how to grow up, and I felt like this season delivered on that. I’ve always thought the best scenes in the show were the intimate friend/awkward romance moments that hit very close to home, especially as + Show Spoiler +
someone who grew up moving around a lot and having to leave behind friends. Similar to what Will’s family + El end up doing
.
For me, the last 15 minutes of the finale were perfect and had me bawling like a baby. I felt like I was part of the party and going through what they were going through. Hopper’s speech tapped into everything I have felt growing older, and it was well done. I legitimately enjoyed every major character group. I’ve never had a show that could so effortlessly switch between comedy and horror. Might be offputting to some but I think it works very well.
fuck Will up for the entire season again. He was able to grow as a character. That Will The Wise scene near the end of the season was particularly bittersweet.
I’m interested to see how they treat S4, because there probably needs to be some new dynamic or plot lines... as long as I continue to see the kids having meaningful coming of age experiences, I’m not sure I really care. Idk how they do that with + Show Spoiler +
El and Will skipping town
, but I’ll wait to judge. I’ve never found the characters bland. In fact I think they’re fleshed out quite well in subtle, kid experiences that adults may forget/downplay the significance of. I might have to rewatch season 3 immediately. Long live Stranger Things.
I found S3 to be totally underwhelming and often plain stupid.
I have absolutely no issues with creepy Monster from another dimension, I have issues with children/teens infiltrating a russian base, built under a shopping mall that they find by cracking a code in 1 day because one girl can casually learn russian, after all she allready speaks Spanish and French. Let alone them outsmarting all the "Evil russians" (actual Quote).
+done to death "grumpy dad that won't let his daughter have a boyfriend". +Product placement. +All new characters are super smart and don't take shit from anyone (the Little girl and the icecream girl). +Monster seems to follow totally random "rules". +THAT FUCKING COKE SCENE.
Wish they gave will some room to breath this season with el. He spent a huge chunk of time in an alternate universe but he just gets a tingly neck sometimes... el/will should be bonded and more interesting than the nothing character will is..
Other than that, i thought it was pretty good. I was a bit disappointed they didn’t try to do any worldbuldng whatsoever — there was very little “new” information about the world, which is kind of sad, and maybe an overreaction to criticism of season 2.
I like how they embraced the ridiculousness of the plot — makes a pretty good homage to the 80s fluff it is based on. The product placement is part of that, too — “new coke” was ridiculous, and product placement in the 80s was ridiculous, ET, Back to the future, its just a riff on that stuff... I can understand if younger folks don’t follow
On July 09 2019 00:11 Velr wrote: I found S3 to be totally underwhelming and often plain stupid.
I have absolutely no issues with creepy Monster from another dimension, I have issues with children/teens infiltrating a russian base, built under a shopping mall that they find by cracking a code in 1 day because one girl can casually learn russian, after all she allready speaks Spanish and French. Let alone them outsmarting all the "Evil russians" (actual Quote).
+done to death "grumpy dad that won't let his daughter have a boyfriend". +Product placement. +All new characters are super smart and don't take shit from anyone (the Little girl and the icecream girl). +Monster seems to follow totally random "rules". +THAT FUCKING COKE SCENE.
Ugh… 5/10 at most.
Watch back to the future
That’s why they are playing up the product placement angle. It was a part of the era
The most baffling thing to me is that story moved absolutely nowhere, dare I say, backwards even. We learned absolutely nothing new of the Upside Down world, hell, it got like 30 second screentime in this season? We learned nothing of their motivation aside from they want to destroy (duh). Dunno what the monster expected by absorbing large amounts of shit. The other parts were just meh for me, and Billy getting no chance to turn around his life and bro up with Steve and such was just bad.
My favourite characters were the russian guy and Bald Eagle.
Very outrageous how an entire base of Soviets happened to sneak in under the town with only a tease of an explanation. Some of the references were cute but a bit too forced, and the plot can get kinda janky at times.
Otherwise, season 3 was fairly entertaining. The mall made me nostalgic for the one on my hometown that is soon getting torn down. The gooey body horror focus for the monster was so disgustingly interesting. David Harbour's speech at the end hit some very strong emotional beats and was a nice bookend to the season.
Honestly as much as people may find that coke scene cringey it was absolutely hilarious and true to the time period. it was introduced in 85 and viewed as a colossal failure. Thus the scene of them arguing over the taste is fully in tune with the time period.
I felt the season felt very true to the time period in how the town felt and the references being made. I will admit the fact 4 kids could sneak into a russian facility so well and not be killed is a little silly. or the fact a female solider was ignored (Joyce)
but aside from that situation I really liked the season. I am also super excited for season 4 whenever that will be as I feel they set up some plot lines that could be interesting to follow.
A lot of criticisms for the season seem to miss that this entire show is set up to play off of the themes and trends of the 80's. Everything from the Coke riff to the fact that a bunch of kids broke into a Russian base to Hopper's antiquated hyper-masculine father figure character are all reflections of 80's culture. It's all quite purposeful and looking for realism is completely missing the point of the show. Just look at how purposefully the show juxtaposes lighthearted and very explicit pop culture riffs with serious sci-fi horror moments. Shit, the season finale broke into a straight up musical number in the middle of the final conflict.
Aside from the fact that we learned pretty much nothing about the Upside Down, I thought the season was great. Best season so far. Easily had the most character development, and even Billy's character was great. Robin + Steve also has to be the standout chemistry of the entire series. That absolutely needs to continue.
9/10. I'd say that this series compares to GoT's early seasons so far.
On July 11 2019 14:50 Stratos_speAr wrote: A lot of criticisms for the season seem to miss that this entire show is set up to play off of the themes and trends of the 80's. Everything from the Coke riff to the fact that a bunch of kids broke into a Russian base to Hopper's antiquated hyper-masculine father figure character are all reflections of 80's culture. It's all quite purposeful and looking for realism is completely missing the point of the show. Just look at how purposefully the show juxtaposes lighthearted and very explicit pop culture riffs with serious sci-fi horror moments. Shit, the season finale broke into a straight up musical number in the middle of the final conflict.
Aside from the fact that we learned pretty much nothing about the Upside Down, I thought the season was great. Best season so far. Easily had the most character development, and even Billy's character was great. Robin + Steve also has to be the standout chemistry of the entire series. That absolutely needs to continue.
9/10. I'd say that this series compares to GoT's early seasons so far.
Not for me. Seasons 1 and 2 I very much enjoyed, 3 less so - maybe 7/10. I still binged it super quick but I don't really remember there being as much good stuff as in the last couple of seasons. Less interesting metaphorical stuff behind the surface this time.
Yep.. S3 is just tons of 80ies clichés losely connected by a stupid story. Stranger Things is about 80ies nostalgia but not only. S3 falls totally flat on everything and even the nostalgia is way too IN YOUR FACE. Not enjoying this has not much to do with not remembering the 80ies, the quality of most of theses "member?" moments was that of a fart joke.
Seconded. The "Mall Rats" episode annoyed me to no end. All these '80s teen mall tropes were just not needed. We've had them. They were done in the period the show is meant to be an hommage to, not blatantly copy what it was. If you want to do an hommage, at least try to do it with some elegance and originality instead of simply doing what's been done over 30 years ago.
On July 11 2019 14:50 Stratos_speAr wrote: A lot of criticisms for the season seem to miss that this entire show is set up to play off of the themes and trends of the 80's. Everything from the Coke riff to the fact that a bunch of kids broke into a Russian base to Hopper's antiquated hyper-masculine father figure character are all reflections of 80's culture. It's all quite purposeful and looking for realism is completely missing the point of the show. Just look at how purposefully the show juxtaposes lighthearted and very explicit pop culture riffs with serious sci-fi horror moments. Shit, the season finale broke into a straight up musical number in the middle of the final conflict.
Aside from the fact that we learned pretty much nothing about the Upside Down, I thought the season was great. Best season so far. Easily had the most character development, and even Billy's character was great. Robin + Steve also has to be the standout chemistry of the entire series. That absolutely needs to continue.
9/10. I'd say that this series compares to GoT's early seasons so far.
It's like people don't know what genres are and compare the show to serious drama. Now i am not sure how in your face the nostalgia stuff really feels (i am not old enough for the 80s :D), outside of say the coke scene which overall isn't a big deal imo, but people saying there is nothing but nostalgia are just outright wrong. Basically every character has their arc and storyline which even works with different genre tropes in a sense, stranger things will never be interested in breaking down a character completely and do any form of character study, that's not required here and would actively go against the tone of the series. We still have moments where character realise something and grow, it's fairly well written on the character level for what the show wants to be. They also are clever about using motifs of older seasons in a new light, in season 1 eleven didn't want to close the door when she changed her clothes, she was afraid because a closed door meant control over her, now it's the opposite, hopper wants to keep the door open to have control while she wants it closed. Stuff like that isn't much, but it's still clever.
Season 3 is definitely up there with season 1 (season 2 was kinda meh), might even be the best one so far, would have to rewatch the first one to really be able to tell. But this season managed to mix so many different moods and feelings, pretty fantastic. Obviously there are some things which could be better and are a little campy even, but for the most part the show is selfaware about it and might even make fun of it. The only thing which bothered me a little was how they used erica, it was a little much for me personally, but that's really a small thing either way.
On July 11 2019 14:50 Stratos_speAr wrote: A lot of criticisms for the season seem to miss that this entire show is set up to play off of the themes and trends of the 80's. Everything from the Coke riff to the fact that a bunch of kids broke into a Russian base to Hopper's antiquated hyper-masculine father figure character are all reflections of 80's culture. It's all quite purposeful and looking for realism is completely missing the point of the show. Just look at how purposefully the show juxtaposes lighthearted and very explicit pop culture riffs with serious sci-fi horror moments. Shit, the season finale broke into a straight up musical number in the middle of the final conflict.
Aside from the fact that we learned pretty much nothing about the Upside Down, I thought the season was great. Best season so far. Easily had the most character development, and even Billy's character was great. Robin + Steve also has to be the standout chemistry of the entire series. That absolutely needs to continue.
9/10. I'd say that this series compares to GoT's early seasons so far.
It's like people don't know what genres are and compare the show to serious drama. Now i am not sure how in your face the nostalgia stuff really feels (i am not old enough for the 80s :D), outside of say the coke scene which overall isn't a big deal imo, but people saying there is nothing but nostalgia are just outright wrong. Basically every character has their arc and storyline which even works with different genre tropes in a sense, stranger things will never be interested in breaking down a character completely and do any form of character study, that's not required here and would actively go against the tone of the series. We still have moments where character realise something and grow, it's fairly well written on the character level for what the show wants to be. They also are clever about using motifs of older seasons in a new light, in season 1 eleven didn't want to close the door when she changed her clothes, she was afraid because a closed door meant control over her, now it's the opposite, hopper wants to keep the door open to have control while she wants it closed. Stuff like that isn't much, but it's still clever.
Season 3 is definitely up there with season 1 (season 2 was kinda meh), might even be the best one so far, would have to rewatch the first one to really be able to tell. But this season managed to mix so many different moods and feelings, pretty fantastic. Obviously there are some things which could be better and are a little campy even, but for the most part the show is selfaware about it and might even make fun of it. The only thing which bothered me a little was how they used erica, it was a little much for me personally, but that's really a small thing either way.
I think the 80's nostalgia is neat, but I think they are relying on it rather than good writing. Besides, I wouldn't have liked the show in season 1 either if it was this silly with such a disjointed inane plot.
So many events and decisions are just completely unbelievable. And that's not because they are fantasy, I can withhold disbelief to participate in a universe that is created for me. It's because even in the universe that was created for me, the things that are happening still make zero sense.
First season was actually tense from the get go. This season (even though I've only seen 2 episodes), we are forcefed silly antics and tropes, like they weren't done to death in the '80s. I don't want to see a fucking montage of early teens shopping in a mall and trying to find a way for your girl to forgive you seeing the ring is too expensive and doing silly things. That stuff is for light hearted family movies that star the Olson twins. The same can be said about the ice shack, it's just trope after trope. They completely gutted Steve's character to this one dimensional hull. At least he had some depth before, now he's just silly. At least I'm hopeful he'll have some more depth episode 3 and onwards..
On July 11 2019 14:50 Stratos_speAr wrote: A lot of criticisms for the season seem to miss that this entire show is set up to play off of the themes and trends of the 80's. Everything from the Coke riff to the fact that a bunch of kids broke into a Russian base to Hopper's antiquated hyper-masculine father figure character are all reflections of 80's culture. It's all quite purposeful and looking for realism is completely missing the point of the show. Just look at how purposefully the show juxtaposes lighthearted and very explicit pop culture riffs with serious sci-fi horror moments. Shit, the season finale broke into a straight up musical number in the middle of the final conflict.
Aside from the fact that we learned pretty much nothing about the Upside Down, I thought the season was great. Best season so far. Easily had the most character development, and even Billy's character was great. Robin + Steve also has to be the standout chemistry of the entire series. That absolutely needs to continue.
9/10. I'd say that this series compares to GoT's early seasons so far.
It's like people don't know what genres are and compare the show to serious drama. Now i am not sure how in your face the nostalgia stuff really feels (i am not old enough for the 80s :D), outside of say the coke scene which overall isn't a big deal imo, but people saying there is nothing but nostalgia are just outright wrong. Basically every character has their arc and storyline which even works with different genre tropes in a sense, stranger things will never be interested in breaking down a character completely and do any form of character study, that's not required here and would actively go against the tone of the series. We still have moments where character realise something and grow, it's fairly well written on the character level for what the show wants to be. They also are clever about using motifs of older seasons in a new light, in season 1 eleven didn't want to close the door when she changed her clothes, she was afraid because a closed door meant control over her, now it's the opposite, hopper wants to keep the door open to have control while she wants it closed. Stuff like that isn't much, but it's still clever.
Season 3 is definitely up there with season 1 (season 2 was kinda meh), might even be the best one so far, would have to rewatch the first one to really be able to tell. But this season managed to mix so many different moods and feelings, pretty fantastic. Obviously there are some things which could be better and are a little campy even, but for the most part the show is selfaware about it and might even make fun of it. The only thing which bothered me a little was how they used erica, it was a little much for me personally, but that's really a small thing either way.
I think the 80's nostalgia is neat, but I think they are relying on it rather than good writing.
How so? Name actual examples how it relies on nostalgia. It's funny you say that because a big part of the audience doesn't have any nostalgia towards the 80s, at best a certain nostalgie towards movies of the 80s (and even there i personally wouldn't really say i have that part) What does "good writing" look like when we are aware of the genre?
On July 12 2019 01:45 travis wrote: Besides, I wouldn't have liked the show in season 1 either if it was this silly with such a disjointed inane plot.
So many events and decisions are just completely unbelievable. And that's not because they are fantasy, I can withhold disbelief to participate in a universe that is created for me. It's because even in the universe that was created for me, the things that are happening still make zero sense.
Again, elaborate. I don't see what is so outrageous if one buys into the whole "kids solve mystery which involves interdimensional monsters" part. I guess you dislike the multiple plotlines going on at the same time which then culminate?
Idk I had pretty much no problem with the light-hearted tone of much of the season. Maybe it's because I was a teacher, but my favorite parts of the season were the coming of age teen moments that a few of you are complaining about. I found myself having a goofy grin at least once an episode, because one of the younger characters said something witty, clever, or flat out kid-like.
I hadn't even thought about the door open/closing thing Red Viper, that's a great catch.
I think people's reactions to this season are primarily based on which aspects of the show you enjoy the most. If you're more so into the sci-fi upside down, maybe this season isn't as strong. I'm primarily into the character development, and I think that this season delivered in a big way on that front.
Also disagree on Steve now being "one-dimensional." When we first met Steve he was basically a douchebag jock, and now he has some introspective moments. If anything, he started out one dimensional and now he's way more fleshed out as a character. He's gone from my least favorite character to one of my favorites and I feel like the show has earned it.
It's funny that the New Coke scene keeps being referenced here because it's the perfect analogy for the show trying a new formula after a wildly successful first season and failing miserably.
On July 12 2019 02:56 darthfoley wrote: Also disagree on Steve now being "one-dimensional." When we first met Steve he was basically a douchebag jock, and now he has some introspective moments. If anything, he started out one dimensional and now he's way more fleshed out as a character. He's gone from my least favorite character to one of my favorites and I feel like the show has earned it.
Maybe I'll still be pleasantly surprised about him because first 2 episodes were him just being a silly sidekick at most. Steve was one of the more interesting characters because he was meant to be thought of as one dimensional while quickly shattering that stereotype when he actually does have some depth as a person.
Edit: this is what they did well with the '80s hommage. They made it seem like a trope, only to shatter that, while still doing justice to it. Now it just feels like blatant copying.
On July 12 2019 16:58 z0rz wrote: It's funny that the New Coke scene keeps being referenced here because it's the perfect analogy for the show trying a new formula after a wildly successful first season and failing miserably.
This season is getting rave reviews and has some of the best viewership numbers Netflix has ever seen.
In what world are they "failing miserably"?
Maybe I'll still be pleasantly surprised about him because first 2 episodes were him just being a silly sidekick at most. Steve was one of the more interesting characters because he was meant to be thought of as one dimensional while quickly shattering that stereotype when he actually does have some depth as a person.
Edit: this is what they did well with the '80s hommage. They made it seem like a trope, only to shatter that, while still doing justice to it. Now it just feels like blatant copying.
Steve is great in this season. Just keep watching. Him and Robin are easily the best duo in the show.
On July 12 2019 16:58 z0rz wrote: It's funny that the New Coke scene keeps being referenced here because it's the perfect analogy for the show trying a new formula after a wildly successful first season and failing miserably.
This season is getting rave reviews and has some of the best viewership numbers Netflix has ever seen.
In what world are they "failing miserably"?
I mean, it's all subjective and these are just my opinions.
It's gotten rave reviews and set records, but it's also gotten a lot of disappointing reviews. This thread obviously isn't an exhaustive review of the series, but I'm seeing a lot fair criticisms here and not a ton of "wow this is the greatest thing I've ever seen."
For me, season 1 was built around (aside from the amazing cast) a painstaking attention to small details that built one of the coolest environments/vibes/etc that I've ever seen in a show and it feels like they took the exact opposite approach to seasons 2 and 3; a Michael Bay-ing of what was once a very slow, well-crafted, deliberate show.
It's not BAD, per se, but it's like season 1 was told by a wise, experienced storyteller and seasons 2 and 3 were told by a kid with too much candy. It's fun, it's visually appealing, but it's shallow, messy, gratuitous, and kinda.. forgettable.
On July 12 2019 16:58 z0rz wrote: It's funny that the New Coke scene keeps being referenced here because it's the perfect analogy for the show trying a new formula after a wildly successful first season and failing miserably.
This season is getting rave reviews and has some of the best viewership numbers Netflix has ever seen.
In what world are they "failing miserably"?
I mean, it's all subjective and these are just my opinions.
It's gotten rave reviews and set records, but it's also gotten a lot of disappointing reviews. This thread obviously isn't an exhaustive review of the series, but I'm seeing a lot fair criticisms here and not a ton of "wow this is the greatest thing I've ever seen."
For me, season 1 was built around (aside from the amazing cast) a painstaking attention to small details that built one of the coolest environments/vibes/etc that I've ever seen in a show and it feels like they took the exact opposite approach to seasons 2 and 3; a Michael Bay-ing of what was once a very slow, well-crafted, deliberate show.
It's not BAD, per se, but it's like season 1 was told by a wise, experienced storyteller and seasons 2 and 3 were told by a kid with too much candy. It's fun, it's visually appealing, but it's shallow, messy, gratuitous, and kinda.. forgettable.
A lot of people are into it. I'm not ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
You're free to not be into it, but saying that it's "failing miserably" is way over-the-top. It didn't go the way of GoT season 8. The reviews are still very good overall and there clearly isn't any kind of massive drop in quality or complete change in direction like GoT did.
My opinion of something isn't based on someone else's opinion of something. I don't give two shits if the masses like it. The masses are generally not very smart, and it seems to me like this show is more interested in being watched than being good (I don't mean for that to be an insult against you personally, by the way).
I think it was already mentioned in this thread, but it's a good example of the writing completely falling flat on its face as of late:
In a vacuum; yeah, the Demogorgon was probably a bit over the top in season 1. But it was also a nice tie-in with the DnD stuff, which was a cute way of giving these kids a backstory as to how they might be surprisingly capable of handling such a monster. It's not the most amazing writing concept of all time, but it at least made enough sense to not be distracting.
How, then, are we justifying a bunch of teenagers cracking secret Russian codes and infiltrating a massive, well-armed, underground base? Even if they went with a "Hey this is just like X video game or Y comic book! We can do this!" it would have been an ATTEMPT at storywriting. Something. Anything.
But yeah, when I say "failing", I'm not at all interested in the numbers.
only lame part was Robin being gay, was this part of the dumb subverting expectations trope? she was clearly supposed to be the love interest, ok cool way to subvert expectations. not as bad as last jedi or game of thrones expectation subversion but pretty lame
On July 17 2019 18:05 z0rz wrote: Nah, I'm 100% standing by it.
My opinion of something isn't based on someone else's opinion of something. I don't give two shits if the masses like it. The masses are generally not very smart, and it seems to me like this show is more interested in being watched than being good (I don't mean for that to be an insult against you personally, by the way).
I think it was already mentioned in this thread, but it's a good example of the writing completely falling flat on its face as of late:
In a vacuum; yeah, the Demogorgon was probably a bit over the top in season 1. But it was also a nice tie-in with the DnD stuff, which was a cute way of giving these kids a backstory as to how they might be surprisingly capable of handling such a monster. It's not the most amazing writing concept of all time, but it at least made enough sense to not be distracting.
How, then, are we justifying a bunch of teenagers cracking secret Russian codes and infiltrating a massive, well-armed, underground base? Even if they went with a "Hey this is just like X video game or Y comic book! We can do this!" it would have been an ATTEMPT at storywriting. Something. Anything.
But yeah, when I say "failing", I'm not at all interested in the numbers.
Sure, be the contrarian if you really want to, but your opinion won't be taken that seriously then. Trivializing it to "the ignorant masses like it" doesn't give your opinion any credibility.
Your criticisms have already been answered here and elsewhere.
only lame part was Robin being gay, was this part of the dumb subverting expectations trope? she was clearly supposed to be the love interest, ok cool way to subvert expectations. not as bad as last jedi or game of thrones expectation subversion but pretty lame
You don't think its a fairly normal character trait?
Like, 3.5% of Americans are gay, so it would make sense that in a show that has had 30+ characters throughout the seasons one of them would be gay, right? I mean its probably got more to do with representation (Netflix are into this) than subverting expectations.
I don't really see what's lame about it to be honest.
On July 17 2019 18:05 z0rz wrote: Nah, I'm 100% standing by it.
My opinion of something isn't based on someone else's opinion of something. I don't give two shits if the masses like it. The masses are generally not very smart, and it seems to me like this show is more interested in being watched than being good (I don't mean for that to be an insult against you personally, by the way).
I think it was already mentioned in this thread, but it's a good example of the writing completely falling flat on its face as of late:
In a vacuum; yeah, the Demogorgon was probably a bit over the top in season 1. But it was also a nice tie-in with the DnD stuff, which was a cute way of giving these kids a backstory as to how they might be surprisingly capable of handling such a monster. It's not the most amazing writing concept of all time, but it at least made enough sense to not be distracting.
How, then, are we justifying a bunch of teenagers cracking secret Russian codes and infiltrating a massive, well-armed, underground base? Even if they went with a "Hey this is just like X video game or Y comic book! We can do this!" it would have been an ATTEMPT at storywriting. Something. Anything.
But yeah, when I say "failing", I'm not at all interested in the numbers.
Sure, be the contrarian if you really want to, but your opinion won't be taken that seriously then. Trivializing it to "the ignorant masses like it" doesn't give your opinion any credibility. Your criticisms have already been answered here and elsewhere.
Relax, I already said I wasn't attacking you personally.
If you think I'm wrong, feel free to enlighten me. We're on a forum. Discussions are neat!
And I'm sorry, but when have my criticisms been answered here? Not that they necessarily NEED to be answered, but all I'm seeing is you saying "but muh ratings!"
(Again, I don't really put much stake into this and it's not the ultimate decider, but since you care: season 3 is definitively the lowest rated season on Rotten Tomatoes, albeit a good score nonetheless. Setting viewership records =/= quality. I don't think that's a very a bold statement to make.
Also worth noting: the premiere of Season 8 of GoT shattered viewership records. And, by your own admission, it was not a good season. See where I'm going?)
Unless the answer is "the show changed, get over it"? In which case: fair enough, but that feels a lot more trivializing to me than wanting the same attention to detail and identity that a show had already given us before.
I already used the Michael Bay reference, but let's go there again. A LOT of people watched the Transformers movies. They made a LOT of money. Billions of dollars.
They were fun. They were visually stimulating. But they weren't masterpieces that will go down in the history of great cinema. And that's okay. That's the space those movies chose to occupy.
And now, I'm starting to put Stranger Things in that space. It's not fully there yet, but it feels like it's headed in that direction. I find that disappointing.
Like most here said, I liked Robin, Dustin and Steve, and I'll add Jim to the list, but thats about it. Its not like I wasnt entertained, but I think it strayed too much from the tone of the 1st season,which had a good balance between 80's cliches and mystery, while S3 was cliche after cliche ... The balance between the serious parts and the goofy parts was not there imo.
It was a nice watch, but there's so much loss potential for me. I feel like a lot of my favorite part of season 1 and 2 were dropped, but than again I never was big fan of the kids story, the El story was nice but Joyce was my personnal highlight of the show (mostly season 1) so seeing her and Jim turning into commic relief was quite sad for me.
Dropping Will trauma was also a waste (especially to turn it into a "boy vs girl" storyline). On the plus side Steve was great Dustin too definitly better than their adult counter part in the Russian plotline, altought Erica was the worst caracter I have seen in a long time ( it's like they mixed the sassy black friend ans the sassy child trope togheter to create an walking punchline machine).
Overall I feel like we went from Alien and ET to James Bond, Terminator and Ferris Buller, non are bad I just happen to like the drama stuff more personnaly.
I don't regret watching it but I can't see myself watch the next season.
The acting was pretty terrible this season. All of the characters seem to either be overacting or behaving like cartoon characters. I don't really remember this being an issue in the first season.
The only characters which I wound up liking are Bald Eagle, Billy, and Alexi. The rest of the cast are just cardboard cutouts of tv tropes. And I suppose that might be the point, given that this is supposed to be an homage to 80s movies, but the novelty has worn off for me years ago and all is left is just a mediocre TV show.
Also, why the fuck did they add so much awkward romance to the plot? The target market for this show is people with 80s nostalgia, not teenagers.
On July 22 2019 22:59 Hyperbola wrote: The acting was pretty terrible this season. All of the characters seem to either be overacting or behaving like cartoon characters. I don't really remember this being an issue in the first season.
The only characters which I wound up liking are Bald Eagle, Billy, and Alexi. The rest of the cast are just cardboard cutouts of tv tropes. And I suppose that might be the point, given that this is supposed to be an homage to 80s movies, but the novelty has worn off for me years ago and all is left is just a mediocre TV show.
Also, why the fuck did they add so much awkward romance to the plot? The target market for this show is people with 80s nostalgia, not teenagers.
How many middle schoolers are not awkward when learning about romance? This show, from my anecdotal experience is quite popular with teenagers. My younger sister was the one who suggested it to me, and there’s a ton of fan/stan twitter accounts presumably run by teenagers.
Caricaturist Russian villains. The leader and the doctor? Is this a joke?
Scene after scene of corny '80s shit ('member this?) that everyone has already seen 10 times before. People don't use those kinds of tropes anymore because it's been figured out. Doing it now doesn't do the '80s any justice, but rather feels like a cheap trip down memory lane while pissing all over every mailbox while simultaneously waking up everyone in the neighborhood just so they could see you do it.
Joyce and Hopper have nothing but silliness, because they couldn't figure out another kind of dynamic for them than having them squabble all the time?
The plot was uninspired and completely unbelievable. Where do Russians get the time/materials/men to build a super secret huge as fuck government installation?
Characters did nonsensical things all the time. Hey guys, let's yell in a secret Russian base!! Let's sing Never Ending Story while the world is at risk of being fucked forever (oh and by the way, great job portraying Suzie as the biggest control freak and asshole that you could for a 13 year old). Let's just believe Billy is eating dinner with people, because he's never shown you to be an antisocial jerk, ever, Maxine.
People excuse the awkward romance or teen stuff as them being teens. I don't. It's portrayed in the worst way possible. Children are also awkward and they were good previous seasons, so I feel like the writers and directors completely missed the boat here, or it's the pubescent children being pubescent children, which means they should've never made this season.
The only thing Will, you know, the guy with the intimate connection to the Mind Flayer, does for the entirety of the story is complain and feel his neck, only to utter the words: "he's here". At the very least he was a plot vessel in previous seasons..
I absolutely LOATHED Lucas' sister. Her tone and her facial expressions just pissed me the fuck off every single time without fail. I mean, sure, she's cocky and she's smart, but she doesn't need to be the same thing the whole time through even when facing grave danger? It would've been nice for her to have her be scared and cry for a scene when shit went down for example, just to show people she's actually still a child (or a human).
For some reason Joyce's facial expressions also irked me more than usual, but that might be because I had nothing else to focus on.
I swear, the moment the sang The Never Ending Story theme, I thought they'd turned it into a satire.
Oh and one last thing, they talk about the Planck constant and then talk about a mathematical equation. A constant is not a mathematical equation. It's part of it, but it's not a mathematical equation in se. If you're trying to be nerdy, like letting her say random stuff about astronomy just to show how much she loves Dustin, at least get every part right.
I give it a 3/10. El has amazing crying faces; Billy was serviceable; Mike's mom was probably the best character on the show. Oh yes, and [ominous synth music]
On July 25 2019 07:35 Uldridge wrote: So after watching the season completely, I've become even more sour about it. So, it didn't get better, it got worse.. way worse.
Caricaturist Russian villains. The leader and the doctor? Is this a joke?
Scene after scene of corny '80s shit ('member this?) that everyone has already seen 10 times before. People don't use those kinds of tropes anymore because it's been figured out. Doing it now doesn't do the '80s any justice, but rather feels like a cheap trip down memory lane while pissing all over every mailbox while simultaneously waking up everyone in the neighborhood just so they could see you do it.
Joyce and Hopper have nothing but silliness, because they couldn't figure out another kind of dynamic for them than having them squabble all the time?
The plot was uninspired and completely unbelievable. Where do Russians get the time/materials/men to build a super secret huge as fuck government installation?
Characters did nonsensical things all the time. Hey guys, let's yell in a secret Russian base!! Let's sing Never Ending Story while the world is at risk of being fucked forever (oh and by the way, great job portraying Suzie as the biggest control freak and asshole that you could for a 13 year old). Let's just believe Billy is eating dinner with people, because he's never shown you to be an antisocial jerk, ever, Maxine.
People excuse the awkward romance or teen stuff as them being teens. I don't. It's portrayed in the worst way possible. Children are also awkward and they were good previous seasons, so I feel like the writers and directors completely missed the boat here, or it's the pubescent children being pubescent children, which means they should've never made this season.
The only thing Will, you know, the guy with the intimate connection to the Mind Flayer, does for the entirety of the story is complain and feel his neck, only to utter the words: "he's here". At the very least he was a plot vessel in previous seasons..
I absolutely LOATHED Lucas' sister. Her tone and her facial expressions just pissed me the fuck off every single time without fail. I mean, sure, she's cocky and she's smart, but she doesn't need to be the same thing the whole time through even when facing grave danger? It would've been nice for her to have her be scared and cry for a scene when shit went down for example, just to show people she's actually still a child (or a human).
For some reason Joyce's facial expressions also irked me more than usual, but that might be because I had nothing else to focus on.
I swear, the moment the sang The Never Ending Story theme, I thought they'd turned it into a satire.
Oh and one last thing, they talk about the Planck constant and then talk about a mathematical equation. A constant is not a mathematical equation. It's part of it, but it's not a mathematical equation in se. If you're trying to be nerdy, like letting her say random stuff about astronomy just to show how much she loves Dustin, at least get every part right.
I give it a 3/10. El has amazing crying faces; Billy was serviceable; Mike's mom was probably the best character on the show. Oh yes, and [ominous synth music]
I'll never understand why guys like you watch shows that you obviously hate from the beginning.
Every complaint you've mentioned was present in the first season, and yet here you are still watching the third season.
Why put yourself through it? Just to hate on something popular? Is that the only reason?
I have zero reason to believe you actually enjoyed the first two seasons after reading everything you just wrote. And if you didn't enjoy the first two seasons and still watched the third, then I don't know what to think of your rationality on what you choose to partake in as entertainment.
Me? I don't like a show, I don't watch it. It's as simple as that. you? You sound masochistic to me.
First season was great, what are you talkig about? Characters pmayed great and the atmosphere was one full of mystery and discovery. Season 2 was obviously inferior, but had some redeeming qualities and season 3 was hoping for an improvement/surprise.
On July 25 2019 14:14 Uldridge wrote: First season was great, what are you talkig about? Characters pmayed great and the atmosphere was one full of mystery and discovery. Season 2 was obviously inferior, but had some redeeming qualities and season 3 was hoping for an improvement/surprise.
So you enjoyed the tropes, 80's nostalgia, teenage hijinks and suspension of disbelief plot in Season 1 but at some point stopped after 2 seasons of it?
Season 3 is great IMO because it manages to keep that fomula going without it feeling worn out. I can guarantee the show writers wanted it that way.
On July 25 2019 14:14 Uldridge wrote: First season was great, what are you talkig about? Characters pmayed great and the atmosphere was one full of mystery and discovery. Season 2 was obviously inferior, but had some redeeming qualities and season 3 was hoping for an improvement/surprise.
So you enjoyed the tropes, 80's nostalgia, teenage hijinks and suspension of disbelief plot in Season 1 but at some point stopped after 2 seasons of it?
Season 3 is great IMO because it manages to keep that fomula going without it feeling worn out. I can guarantee the show writers wanted it that way.
I guess this pretty much sums up what those of us who didn't like S3 so much think:
Sure it was '80s themed in S1 and it didn't feel jarring or over the top. In S3 it was a caricature, how many times do I have to tell you? Like actually LOOK at the face of the evil Russian boss man? In S1 the villains took themselves seriously, in this season, the entire Russian base infiltration was a mockery.
And, sorry, but a government facility that experiments on interdimensional stuff is infinitely more believable than a super secret billion dollar underground operation.
The atmosphere was flat. In S1 it was immersive. There's night and day difference between these seasons.. I actually cant believe you'd compare both because the could very well be different shows. With S3 taking place in Looney Tunes universe. Even my gf, who is generally not very hard to please couldn't help but comment and keep commenting on how superficial and immature this season was.
Also, people kept watching GoT from S5 onwards, even though the show was officially shit (imo) from them on . I didn't really have any interest in it any longer, but kept watching for several reasons. One of them is obviously the sunk cost fallacy people (myself included) indulge in. So don't tell me I shouldn't watch something I had high expectations for (or could still be pleasantly surprised with), just because I'm massively dissapointed by it.
Well you brought up the Sunk Cost fallacy not me. It is a fallacy for a reason. I stopped watching GoT as soon as Ramsey Bolton fought off an Ironborn Raid without a shirt, because that was a red flag that the show had officially lost its own credibility.
That said, there is a difference I can understand, I have the books to look forward to to finish the story properly. Stranger Things doesn't have that option, but even as a fan of the show I'd have been more than happy to cut the series off after Season 2 which had a really nice conclusive ending of sorts if I didn't like where season 3 was going, but I didn't because I enjoyed Episode 1 and was totally engaged by Episode 3.
I wouldn't have kept going if I had not liked the first episode.
On July 25 2019 07:35 Uldridge wrote: So after watching the season completely, I've become even more sour about it. So, it didn't get better, it got worse.. way worse.
Caricaturist Russian villains. The leader and the doctor? Is this a joke?
Scene after scene of corny '80s shit ('member this?) that everyone has already seen 10 times before. People don't use those kinds of tropes anymore because it's been figured out. Doing it now doesn't do the '80s any justice, but rather feels like a cheap trip down memory lane while pissing all over every mailbox while simultaneously waking up everyone in the neighborhood just so they could see you do it.
Joyce and Hopper have nothing but silliness, because they couldn't figure out another kind of dynamic for them than having them squabble all the time?
The plot was uninspired and completely unbelievable. Where do Russians get the time/materials/men to build a super secret huge as fuck government installation?
Characters did nonsensical things all the time. Hey guys, let's yell in a secret Russian base!! Let's sing Never Ending Story while the world is at risk of being fucked forever (oh and by the way, great job portraying Suzie as the biggest control freak and asshole that you could for a 13 year old). Let's just believe Billy is eating dinner with people, because he's never shown you to be an antisocial jerk, ever, Maxine.
People excuse the awkward romance or teen stuff as them being teens. I don't. It's portrayed in the worst way possible. Children are also awkward and they were good previous seasons, so I feel like the writers and directors completely missed the boat here, or it's the pubescent children being pubescent children, which means they should've never made this season.
The only thing Will, you know, the guy with the intimate connection to the Mind Flayer, does for the entirety of the story is complain and feel his neck, only to utter the words: "he's here". At the very least he was a plot vessel in previous seasons..
I absolutely LOATHED Lucas' sister. Her tone and her facial expressions just pissed me the fuck off every single time without fail. I mean, sure, she's cocky and she's smart, but she doesn't need to be the same thing the whole time through even when facing grave danger? It would've been nice for her to have her be scared and cry for a scene when shit went down for example, just to show people she's actually still a child (or a human).
For some reason Joyce's facial expressions also irked me more than usual, but that might be because I had nothing else to focus on.
I swear, the moment the sang The Never Ending Story theme, I thought they'd turned it into a satire.
Oh and one last thing, they talk about the Planck constant and then talk about a mathematical equation. A constant is not a mathematical equation. It's part of it, but it's not a mathematical equation in se. If you're trying to be nerdy, like letting her say random stuff about astronomy just to show how much she loves Dustin, at least get every part right.
I give it a 3/10. El has amazing crying faces; Billy was serviceable; Mike's mom was probably the best character on the show. Oh yes, and [ominous synth music]
I don't want to go into detail here because it would be a waste of time, but a lot of these complaints are so superficial and nitpicky, disregarding the tone/genre this show is going for and searching for realism (?) instead. I blame bad faith youtube film/media criticism, people just cannot stop to do the same afterwards :/
Sure, they're nitpicky, but superficial stuff isn't an invalid. Being annoyed by how people are portrayed because they're completely over the top silly as opposed to characters being portrayed seriously is such a shift in viewing experience it completely destroyed the pleasurable viewing experience.
Oh and you want tone / genre? I've already explained it, everything else was shit icing on the cake. Tone went from mystery thriller fantasy to silly fantasy sci fi family detective. It was not what I was looking for. The continuation of the same stuff would've been great, but that wasn't what we got. I was majorly annoyed and dissapointed by it.
And I literally didnt view any of the youtube stuff nor do I barely ever watch that shit. The only things I do watch are RLM because they do go in depth with tonality and themes and symbolism and pacing and all that stuff.
I don't want to go into detail here because it would be a waste of time, but a lot of these complaints are so superficial and nitpicky, disregarding the tone/genre this show is going for and searching for realism (?) instead. I blame bad faith youtube film/media criticism, people just cannot stop to do the same afterwards :/
Nobody is searching for pure realism. There was a goddamn living Demogorgon and psychic abilities in S1 and we all loved that shit. But there still needs to be some level of respect for the audience. It's hard to question the rules of the Upside Down and its monsters; it's not nearly as hard to question a massive secret Russian base under a small town's mall.
I think there's a pretty major disconnect in the conversation we're having here, though.
It's not that S1 didn't have its comic relief, 80s references, lack of realism, etc. It was just done in what seems to be a MUCH more deliberate and calculated way.
I said it before: it felt like S1's story was told by a wise, clever, experienced storyteller and S2/S3 were told by a child. A novice. It's essentially the same story, but it's told in a WILDLY different way.
That's why people are upset.
To bolster that point: think of the imagery in S1. The Eggos, El's nosebleeds, the scientists in white coats, the Christmas lights + alphabet on the wall, the Upside Down, Barb (remember how viral she went?). It produced some pretty memorable, often iconic stuff.
Take this scene for example:
It's slow. It has moments of dead silence. It wasn't in a hurry to get to the next subplot or joke. It builds suspense. And then it hits you with that big, cinematic synth-y music that defined the show.
Not saying S2/S3 didn't have their big moments, but they just didn't build tension the same way. They didn't paint the same picture. They didn't appeal to the senses. They didn't have the lasting imagery. They didn't let scenes, emotions marinate.
The stories don't feel like they were told by the same person. We liked that first person more.
I recall season 1 being super unrealistic and cartoony as well. Like Hopper doing James Bond shit or the kids not getting immediately killed by the Demogorgon or the Demogorgon absorbing damage with no affect like a bullet sponge. Even back then it pissed me off because the show was trying to go for a grounded "one step from reality" vibe. But now it's basically looney toons.
How great would it be if when they were sneaking into the Russian base the guards shot through the ducts and killed Lucas's sister and Dustin? Then when they tortured Steve they actually used the saw and tweezers and cut off some of his fingers. Or when Hopper and Joyce met the Terminator they actually got hit by his AK. Joyce dying would have been a great character moment for Jonathan who would have to step up and take care of his brother.
They have such a giant cast. Start killing them off already!
Not only was the story for children, so was everything regarding the acting. Why was nothing fleshed out. Why was nothing was character driven? How is Joyce, who did MAJOR detective work and has shown to be NOT crazy on several occasions still questioned by Hopper, who was majorly involved in both mysteries? Why does he need to be dragged around like a child? Someone's who's been a badass and intelligent (and more often than not balanced) individual for 16 episodes now has the mental fortitude of a 14 year old. Why? Why do they need to quibble again? Don't they understand the potentially dangerous world ending situations that happen around these areas by now? I could dissect every character like this. I could dissect everyone, they've just lost every nuance.
On July 26 2019 05:02 Faruko wrote: Most of the people hating the stuff on season 3 should have hated it on season 1, it's pretty impressive lol
It feels like if some people are hating now because it went mainstream and it's actually good.
You can't say acting is bad in this season but not in season 1, seriously, that's like nostalgia googles at its finest
The show was literally mainstream from the first episode onwards. I think even before that.
And I'm pretty sure the characters are portrayed way differently then they were in the first season. I want to be wrong though, so I'll rewatch S1 soon just so I can compare that stuff. However, if the acting is actually the same, or the characters as superficial, I'd like to know/understand why, because I won't be able to figure it out for myself. I really want to enjoy this, because thematically it should/is up my wheelhouse, but this season did nothing but piss me off..
On July 26 2019 03:43 Hyperbola wrote: I recall season 1 being super unrealistic and cartoony as well. Like Hopper doing James Bond shit or the kids not getting immediately killed by the Demogorgon or the Demogorgon absorbing damage with no affect like a bullet sponge. Even back then it pissed me off because the show was trying to go for a grounded "one step from reality" vibe. But now it's basically looney toons.
How great would it be if when they were sneaking into the Russian base the guards shot through the ducts and killed Lucas's sister and Dustin? Then when they tortured Steve they actually used the saw and tweezers and cut off some of his fingers. Or when Hopper and Joyce met the Terminator they actually got hit by his AK. Joyce dying would have been a great character moment for Jonathan who would have to step up and take care of his brother.
They have such a giant cast. Start killing them off already!
On July 26 2019 03:43 Hyperbola wrote: I recall season 1 being super unrealistic and cartoony as well. Like Hopper doing James Bond shit or the kids not getting immediately killed by the Demogorgon or the Demogorgon absorbing damage with no affect like a bullet sponge. Even back then it pissed me off because the show was trying to go for a grounded "one step from reality" vibe. But now it's basically looney toons.
How great would it be if when they were sneaking into the Russian base the guards shot through the ducts and killed Lucas's sister and Dustin? Then when they tortured Steve they actually used the saw and tweezers and cut off some of his fingers. Or when Hopper and Joyce met the Terminator they actually got hit by his AK. Joyce dying would have been a great character moment for Jonathan who would have to step up and take care of his brother.
They have such a giant cast. Start killing them off already!
i really loved the mall episode and how it all ended up there again. Steve being a highlight once again was nice, but it’s becoming too predictable. i don’t know how many times we can just fight upsidedown monsters either.
overall i thought it was a little above average but i’m not hyped for s4 (if there is one) tbh.
max and lucas singing was also one of my favorite parts, the ending was fairly well done. a very appropriate sort of closure.
On July 26 2019 03:43 Hyperbola wrote: I recall season 1 being super unrealistic and cartoony as well. Like Hopper doing James Bond shit or the kids not getting immediately killed by the Demogorgon or the Demogorgon absorbing damage with no affect like a bullet sponge. Even back then it pissed me off because the show was trying to go for a grounded "one step from reality" vibe. But now it's basically looney toons.
How great would it be if when they were sneaking into the Russian base the guards shot through the ducts and killed Lucas's sister and Dustin? Then when they tortured Steve they actually used the saw and tweezers and cut off some of his fingers. Or when Hopper and Joyce met the Terminator they actually got hit by his AK. Joyce dying would have been a great character moment for Jonathan who would have to step up and take care of his brother.
They have such a giant cast. Start killing them off already!
Uhhh did you finish the season?
I did. Killing off a couple side characters aint gonna do much if they keep introducing new ones. Also, Hopper obviously isn't dead.
On July 25 2019 23:56 Uldridge wrote: Sure, they're nitpicky, but superficial stuff isn't an invalid. Being annoyed by how people are portrayed because they're completely over the top silly as opposed to characters being portrayed seriously is such a shift in viewing experience it completely destroyed the pleasurable viewing experience.
Oh and you want tone / genre? I've already explained it, everything else was shit icing on the cake. Tone went from mystery thriller fantasy to silly fantasy sci fi family detective. It was not what I was looking for. The continuation of the same stuff would've been great, but that wasn't what we got. I was majorly annoyed and dissapointed by it.
And I literally didnt view any of the youtube stuff nor do I barely ever watch that shit. The only things I do watch are RLM because they do go in depth with tonality and themes and symbolism and pacing and all that stuff.
It might not be totally invalid, but "criticism" goes more and more into the direction of nitpicks, trying to find things which don't make 100% logical sense instead of trying to see the big picture. Now i'll grant that it can be too contrived (people usually shout "plotholes" when that's not the case), it is somewhat subjective, but it also depends largely on what genres and mood the work portrays in the first place. I'll be a lot harsher with a series which tries to be realistic, some serious drama. ST isn't that.
The first season already has very similar tropes, where kids outsmart everyone around them, it's super easy to get into a secret base, etc. Maybe it's a little more exaggerated now, but season 1 isn't something completely different.
Well your criticism just reminded me of the very popular youtube film criticism these days, which is heavily focused on nitpicks and finding holes (any story has these! even the ones you'd think are excellent). Audiences seem to like that kind of stuff (it can be entertaining, not gonna deny that), but ultimately it's lazy for the most part.
I don't want to go into detail here because it would be a waste of time, but a lot of these complaints are so superficial and nitpicky, disregarding the tone/genre this show is going for and searching for realism (?) instead. I blame bad faith youtube film/media criticism, people just cannot stop to do the same afterwards :/
Nobody is searching for pure realism. There was a goddamn living Demogorgon and psychic abilities in S1 and we all loved that shit. But there still needs to be some level of respect for the audience. It's hard to question the rules of the Upside Down and its monsters; it's not nearly as hard to question a massive secret Russian base under a small town's mall.
I think there's a pretty major disconnect in the conversation we're having here, though.
It's not that S1 didn't have its comic relief, 80s references, lack of realism, etc. It was just done in what seems to be a MUCH more deliberate and calculated way.
I said it before: it felt like S1's story was told by a wise, clever, experienced storyteller and S2/S3 were told by a child. A novice. It's essentially the same story, but it's told in a WILDLY different way.
That's why people are upset.
To bolster that point: think of the imagery in S1. The Eggos, El's nosebleeds, the scientists in white coats, the Christmas lights + alphabet on the wall, the Upside Down, Barb (remember how viral she went?). It produced some pretty memorable, often iconic stuff.
It's slow. It has moments of dead silence. It wasn't in a hurry to get to the next subplot or joke. It builds suspense. And then it hits you with that big, cinematic synth-y music that defined the show.
Not saying S2/S3 didn't have their big moments, but they just didn't build tension the same way. They didn't paint the same picture. They didn't appeal to the senses. They didn't have the lasting imagery. They didn't let scenes, emotions marinate.
The stories don't feel like they were told by the same person. We liked that first person more.
It looks like people are searching for realism when i read the complaints, maybe you should read the complaints as well and then decide if truly "nobody" does it? They might respect the audience too much actually, it's very clear what they are trying to do with the russians, considering in what time period the series plays in. It is supposed to be comical, all of it. How they get into the base is the most absurd part, but that's exactly what this storylines wants to be.
So yeah overall i highly disagree with everything you say, it's hard to argue against it though because it comes down to "season 1 did something the others didn't" , i might even agree with season 2 being weaker, but season 3 has some highly memorable scenes in it. Them singing at the end (which you probably dislike because it isn't realistic!) might become the most iconic part yet. Obviously there are parts which could be more focused, a little more effective, but saying season 1 was written by a experienced storyteller while s3 was written by a child, yeah no that's complete nonsense. This isn't a GoT season 8 vs earlier seasons comparison, not even close.
On July 26 2019 23:54 The_Red_Viper wrote: It is supposed to be comical, all of it. How they get into the base is the most absurd part, but that's exactly what this storylines wants to be.
Them singing at the end (which you probably dislike because it isn't realistic!) might become the most iconic part yet.
I guess we have very different experiences with the show then. S1 and most of S2 was character focused and suspenseful for me. S3 had nothing of this, which was what made is so unappealing. I found the last episode borderline insulting. The singing, the infiltration and the ease of it all. Again, S1 had elaborate (albeit ineffective) government or - whatever secret organization - henchmen. They felt scary, they felt like an actual threat. At no point did I feel like either the Russians, Billy and by expansion the Mind Flayer, or The Terminator were on a similar level. I actually liked the fact that El lost her power, but she did so way too late. For instance, the scene in the cabin could've been way more impactful if she lost her powers beforehand, the Mind Flayer shows up, she appallingly realizes she lost her powers (because of overuse or whatever, because, let's face it, she's been using it a whole lot, or you know, how the mind flayer literally was able to trojan horse her ass when she was snooping around Billy's memories) and then someone (let's say Mike) gets snatched away. But the cabin scene was just another scene where no one does anything and El suddenly decides she has enough and rips the monster in half (why not do it immediately?)
The only scene that I found actually suspenseful was in the hospital. But even that left a bad taste because the fucking receptionist didn't notice the lights going on and off, or the fact that there was literally no animosity in a hospital. Again, insulting.
I can let go that you and many others found it great and even found the duet scene iconic, but for me it was completely the opposite. I have yet to understand why it's iconic and would definitely love to see a reason why people find it iconic or amazing, just so I can at least see where people are coming from.
I was going to try to make a point on how the suspension of disbelief was way more convincing in S1 because of how the character dealt with the situations and how everything played out, but I'm not well versed enough in the lingo of storytelling / character development / themes and shit to actually make that point. I'll think about it some more and see if I can come up with something that will help you understand on why I feel this way. I'm actually looking forward to rewatching S1 to see if my viewing experience will be the same or not.
On July 26 2019 23:54 The_Red_Viper wrote: It looks like people are searching for realism when i read the complaints, maybe you should read the complaints as well and then decide if truly "nobody" does it?
I should probably use the spoiler tag more, so let's just do the whole damn thing:
I've mostly just seen people specifically complaining about the Russian base concept being too wacky. I don't think pure realism is what anyone wanted; not a single person here has complained about the existence of a Mindflayer, for example. I think they're just asking for a return of the very real, very plausible backstories that made the plot so damn compelling (e.g. the U.S. government running experiments on its own people, because that actually happened).
I'll echo Uldridge's sentiment that I might be misremembering details from S1 and should rewatch it as well, but as a sidenote to reinforce previous points: I DO remember how difficult it was in S1 for Joyce and the gang to figure out A) where Will went and B) how the hell they're supposed to communicate with him. It was a long, arduous process. And it was really powerful when it was finally figured out. Because that's how tension and resolution work! Yay storywriting!
But in S2 they solved the mystery of Will's visions of the Mindflayer nearly instantaneously (Joyce quickly realized he should draw what he saw and Bob conveniently knew it was a map, etc), just like the kids cracking the secret Russian code without speaking a lick of Russian and quickly infiltrating an underground, well-armed base in S3. Problems were presented and instantly solved BEFORE the journey even began. It's such a shallow and lazy way to write a story IMO.
And I'm ranting about all of this now because it wasn't always like that. If that's how S1 went, I wouldn't even be here right now.
Also, holy shit please don't put words in my mouth. The lack of realism isn't the problem I had with the singing scene; it was just a really tacky joke that made me cringe in the middle of the ultimate climax of a very intense moment.
Even if I DID think it was funny, laughing during a climax is generally not a good thing for anyone involved.
(There's also the super meta realization that Billy and Hopper probably would have survived if they didn't waste several minutes singing, which is more of a funny thought than a critical gripe.)