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TLADT24920 Posts
On September 26 2014 03:27 Hyperbola wrote:
They're both idiotic idealists. Keep in mind that even Hitler had good intentions. "I'm gonna change the ninja world!" Naruto says this or at least something along the lines of that all the time. He's trying to impose his beliefs on others. Sasuke is way more extreme in this but Naruto is still guilty of trying to be a messiah.
Let's take a look at Hashirama. How did he change the world? He brokered a peace treaty and waited for others to follow his example. He convinced other people, he didn't force them. He ruled because he was ELECTED and he only fought against Madra because he was forced to. This is what we call a good role model.
Naruto and Sasuke on the other hand have a ridiculously hamfisted approach. I am your god and my word is the word of law. If you don't follow me I'll force you to because it is for your own good. This is Hitler territory. It's an incredibly slippery slope. Even if Naruto is all about kindness and love don't expect that shit to last when people start rebelling against him. Neither of them would make a good leader. Both of them should probably die or leave this world forever and stop the whole cycle from starting over once again.
? No, Naruto never forced anyone either. He stuck to his dream of wanting to be a hokage and lead by example in his actions. He didn't differentiate between people and always tried to 'change' others to the side of good even when they were pure evil. He basically got people to follow him because they liked his determination and desire to change the ninja world into a place where there was less hardships and everyone can work together on top of him becoming their hope in this last ninja war.
Sasuke on the other hand is the one who wants to force everyone into a certain state. His word is the law so I can see people rebelling against him but I disagree on Naruto. Also, what could he possibly due to make people rebel against him? I'm sure whatever way the ninja world changes to, it'll be in agreement with all the different parties leading to a lasting peace.
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Oh Emo Sasuke it was like you never left us.
I know the sage was all talking philosophical and shit trying to reason why things turned out this way but from what Kishi has presented it comes off as "yea my elder son and his lineage basically are a bunch of brats who caused all this shit" even though he tries to take on the blame and make it more balanced. Uchiha are so stupid except for Itachi and possibly his one friend whose eye was inside Naruto for a bit.
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On September 26 2014 08:33 Slaughter wrote:
Oh Emo Sasuke it was like you never left us.
I know the sage was all talking philosophical and shit trying to reason why things turned out this way but from what Kishi has presented it comes off as "yea my elder son and his lineage basically are a bunch of brats who caused all this shit" even though he tries to take on the blame and make it more balanced. Uchiha are so stupid except for Itachi and possibly his one friend whose eye was inside Naruto for a bit.
Yeah, I'm hoping someone tells the sage that he's powerful and everything, but he kind of sucks at explaining bad news to the Uchiha side.
This is the Naruto version of the last widow mine patch to Terran. It turns out David Kim had decided to leave everything to the Protoss, but then Terrans started to despise Protoss and David Kim. So then he patched the game to try to turn their hate into love. Terran today is the result of the passion they lost in the past. It's going to turn out there was a third son, but neither the sage nor David Kim gives a crap about them.
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Also I am finding it more and more annoying how Kishi keeps trying to force Sakura to love Sasuke. THERE IS NO REASON FOR IT JUST DROP IT. Your already making a sorely underdeveloped character worse by giving her a 1 sided love that she has no actual motivation to be in. What does the sage's words mean that he will magically find out he loves her? So stupid. He mise well be implying with the "hate turns into love" line that as they fight it will get more and more intense and eventually they will be grappling each other then stop suddenly while staring at each other before they start making out. Actually now that I think about it that would be the best troll ever: years and years of this Ninja shit just a cover to launch his Yaoi manga because that honestly makes more sense then his bloody plot and characters.
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TLADT24920 Posts
On September 26 2014 09:02 Slaughter wrote:
Also I am finding it more and more annoying how Kishi keeps trying to force Sakura to love Sasuke. THERE IS NO REASON FOR IT JUST DROP IT. Your already making a sorely underdeveloped character worse by giving her a 1 sided love that she has no actual motivation to be in. What does the sage's words mean that he will magically find out he loves her? So stupid. He mise well be implying with the "hate turns into love" line that as they fight it will get more and more intense and eventually they will be grappling each other then stop suddenly while staring at each other before they start making out. Actually now that I think about it that would be the best troll ever: years and years of this Ninja shit just a cover to launch his Yaoi manga because that honestly makes more sense then his bloody plot and characters.
haha so emotional  Sakura is hanging onto her crush. It's true that it makes her one dimensional and it's a bit realistic but at least she has a goal that she's striving for. It's sad that he's made her useless though aside from when she punched Kaguya in the fight. lol at Yaoi manga part.
As for the sage's words, my guess is that he means Sasuke loves Sakura but is too embroiled in his hate for what happened to his family and Itachi to realize it. In other words, once Naruto knocks some sense into him (aka he loses the fight), he'll start to open up and see things for what they are. Think Ao Haru Ride and how Kou opened up after Futaba broke down his door lol.
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On September 26 2014 09:34 BigFan wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2014 09:02 Slaughter wrote:
Also I am finding it more and more annoying how Kishi keeps trying to force Sakura to love Sasuke. THERE IS NO REASON FOR IT JUST DROP IT. Your already making a sorely underdeveloped character worse by giving her a 1 sided love that she has no actual motivation to be in. What does the sage's words mean that he will magically find out he loves her? So stupid. He mise well be implying with the "hate turns into love" line that as they fight it will get more and more intense and eventually they will be grappling each other then stop suddenly while staring at each other before they start making out. Actually now that I think about it that would be the best troll ever: years and years of this Ninja shit just a cover to launch his Yaoi manga because that honestly makes more sense then his bloody plot and characters. haha so emotional Sakura is hanging onto her crush. It's true that it makes her one dimensional and it's a bit realistic but at least she has a goal that she's striving for. It's sad that he's made her useless though aside from when she punched Kaguya in the fight. lol at Yaoi manga part. As for the sage's words, my guess is that he means Sasuke loves Sakura but is too embroiled in his hate for what happened to his family and Itachi to realize it. In other words, once Naruto knocks some sense into him (aka he loses the fight), he'll start to open up and see things for what they are. Think Ao Haru Ride and how Kou opened up after Futaba broke down his door lol.
No I disagree that its realistic, Kishi never had any kind development between Sakura and Sasuke. She literally has just been sitting there pining for him for the whole manga based on a childhood crush she had before she even knew him and once she got to know him all he did was be an ass or push her away (even telling her straight up multiple times). Hell he has tried multiple times to murder her. Its not something to be admired "true love" or w/e that Kishi is going for, its at an unhealthy and pathological level the "love" that Kishi is presenting from Sakura.
In Ao Haru ride the two characters actually had something between them and Kou was affectionate at times as well in his grown up emo state that egged Futa on to explore and break down his barriers. Sasuke has given nothing to make Sakura love him but it is so because Kishi wants it to happen but he doesn't know how to write it properly.
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TLADT24920 Posts
On September 26 2014 09:51 Slaughter wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2014 09:34 BigFan wrote:On September 26 2014 09:02 Slaughter wrote:
Also I am finding it more and more annoying how Kishi keeps trying to force Sakura to love Sasuke. THERE IS NO REASON FOR IT JUST DROP IT. Your already making a sorely underdeveloped character worse by giving her a 1 sided love that she has no actual motivation to be in. What does the sage's words mean that he will magically find out he loves her? So stupid. He mise well be implying with the "hate turns into love" line that as they fight it will get more and more intense and eventually they will be grappling each other then stop suddenly while staring at each other before they start making out. Actually now that I think about it that would be the best troll ever: years and years of this Ninja shit just a cover to launch his Yaoi manga because that honestly makes more sense then his bloody plot and characters. haha so emotional Sakura is hanging onto her crush. It's true that it makes her one dimensional and it's a bit realistic but at least she has a goal that she's striving for. It's sad that he's made her useless though aside from when she punched Kaguya in the fight. lol at Yaoi manga part. As for the sage's words, my guess is that he means Sasuke loves Sakura but is too embroiled in his hate for what happened to his family and Itachi to realize it. In other words, once Naruto knocks some sense into him (aka he loses the fight), he'll start to open up and see things for what they are. Think Ao Haru Ride and how Kou opened up after Futaba broke down his door lol. No I disagree that its realistic, Kishi never had any kind development between Sakura and Sasuke. She literally has just been sitting there pining for him for the whole manga based on a childhood crush she had before she even knew him and once she got to know him all he did was be an ass or push her away (even telling her straight up multiple times). Hell he has tried multiple times to murder her. Its not something to be admired "true love" or w/e that Kishi is going for, its at an unhealthy and pathological level the "love" that Kishi is presenting from Sakura. In Ao Haru ride the two characters actually had something between them and Kou was affectionate at times as well in his grown up emo state that egged Futa on to explore and break down his barriers. Sasuke has given nothing to make Sakura love him but it is so because Kishi wants it to happen but he doesn't know how to write it properly.
you misread my comment lol. oh wait, I miswrote haha. I meant to say it's not realistic considering those crushes don't usually last this long so I agree there though saying he didn't do anything is a bit wrong (yes, he did a lot of the other stuff you mentioned). I think that 'thank you' part when he left Konoha is what Sakura keeping remembering and harping on and at least showed that he is thankful for her help (back then of course).
That's not to say he said it out of love or anything but we've seen some less-emo (or rather more logical) moments from Sasuke before. Weird, I know lol. Well, who knows what Sasuke feels in his heart. It's true that he's for lack of a better word, a total bitch lol but I think there is a possibility of him 'hiding his true feelings' or at least friendship feelings under the current guise of 'I need to be a dictator to solve everything'. In other words, Kishi could've done a much better job with Sasuke and Sakura's relationship and I feel to some degree that their relationship can be debated.
ps I think you mean obsession for your last line of first paragraph.
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Should she really be hanging onto a "thank you" she got from him years ago? Especially when she barely has had contact with him since then and pretty much every time she has he has done something to hurt her emotionally or physically? Thats not healthy. If they end up together it will be a bad decision by Kishi. If Naruto doesn't kill his ass (I hope this happens but probably won't) he should end up with Ino just so Kishi can do a "HA I WON IN THE END SAKURA SUCK IT" joke.
Kishi really dropped the ball on the development of the side characters and even one of "the main 3" (yes Sakura was part of that for a while until it became all about Naruto and she fell into side character teir).
Edit: The fact you are thinking of placing "obsession" in that line supports my point that Kishi has warped Sakura pretty badly.
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TLADT24920 Posts
On September 26 2014 10:12 Slaughter wrote:
Should she really be hanging onto a "thank you" she got from him years ago? Especially when she barely has had contact with him since then and pretty much every time she has he has done something to hurt her emotionally or physically? Thats not healthy. If they end up together it will be a bad decision by Kishi. If Naruto doesn't kill his ass (I hope this happens but probably won't) he should end up with Ino just so Kishi can do a "HA I WON IN THE END SAKURA SUCK IT" joke.
Kishi really dropped the ball on the development of the side characters and even one of "the main 3" (yes Sakura was part of that for a while until it became all about Naruto and she fell into side character teir).
yes, she shouldn't be hanging onto it for so long. I can't really explain why she acts like she does, guess she really loved him back in the day and couldn't give that up as she grew. Naruto x Hinata shipper here, yes, they will end up together. Believe it! XD Naruto won't kill him, it's been foreshadowed so many times including this chapter when Naruto says he promised Sakura that 'he'll bring Sasuke back' so yes, Sasuke will come back after he gets defeated by Naruto. It won't be like Hashi and Madara where Hashi killed him but he actually survived and came back later (I hope not lol).
yes, he could've developed her much better. Maybe had her have feelings for someone else and start to see Sasuke as an emo guy who tried to kill her but who knows Kishi's reasons for that (aside from lazy, inexperienced etc...).
edit: I said obsession since that's what your statement seemed to be implying, not what I think it is.
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On September 26 2014 10:18 BigFan wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2014 10:12 Slaughter wrote:
Should she really be hanging onto a "thank you" she got from him years ago? Especially when she barely has had contact with him since then and pretty much every time she has he has done something to hurt her emotionally or physically? Thats not healthy. If they end up together it will be a bad decision by Kishi. If Naruto doesn't kill his ass (I hope this happens but probably won't) he should end up with Ino just so Kishi can do a "HA I WON IN THE END SAKURA SUCK IT" joke.
Kishi really dropped the ball on the development of the side characters and even one of "the main 3" (yes Sakura was part of that for a while until it became all about Naruto and she fell into side character teir). yes, she shouldn't be hanging onto it for so long. I can't really explain why she acts like she does, guess she really loved him back in the day and couldn't give that up as she grew. Naruto x Hinata shipper here, yes, they will end up together. Believe it! XD Naruto won't kill him, it's been foreshadowed so many times including this chapter when Naruto says he promised Sakura that 'he'll bring Sasuke back' so yes, Sasuke will come back after he gets defeated by Naruto. It won't be like Hashi and Madara where Hashi killed him but he actually survived and came back later (I hope not lol). yes, he could've developed her much better. Maybe had her have feelings for someone else and start to see Sasuke as an emo guy who tried to kill her but who knows Kishi's reasons for that (aside from lazy, inexperienced etc...). edit: I said obsession since that's what your statement seemed to be implying, not what I think it is.
That is my point, because Kishi failed to develop her or any relationship between the two she comes off as really pathetic (and you can see this because a lot of people don't like her). The fact that Kishi is having the Sage and Kakashi somehow approve of her and justify her feelings after she got knocked out makes them seem kinda dumb. She isn't even the one who is going to win over Sasuke.
Though now that I think about it, maybe Kishi is going for Sasuke dying. Taking the choice of death because he realizes that he is being the same ponce that Madara was, thus "freeing" Sakura I mean you do know that she is kinda similar to his mom ya know, and research has suggested that people like to marry people similar to those of their opposite sex parent hehehe.
Ok maybe that last bit was just a tease because you are a Hinata shipper  Thats another relationship that I am pretty meh on. Basically what is underlying my whole argument is that Kishi sucks at writing anything related to romance.
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TLADT24920 Posts
On September 26 2014 10:24 Slaughter wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2014 10:18 BigFan wrote:On September 26 2014 10:12 Slaughter wrote:
Should she really be hanging onto a "thank you" she got from him years ago? Especially when she barely has had contact with him since then and pretty much every time she has he has done something to hurt her emotionally or physically? Thats not healthy. If they end up together it will be a bad decision by Kishi. If Naruto doesn't kill his ass (I hope this happens but probably won't) he should end up with Ino just so Kishi can do a "HA I WON IN THE END SAKURA SUCK IT" joke.
Kishi really dropped the ball on the development of the side characters and even one of "the main 3" (yes Sakura was part of that for a while until it became all about Naruto and she fell into side character teir). yes, she shouldn't be hanging onto it for so long. I can't really explain why she acts like she does, guess she really loved him back in the day and couldn't give that up as she grew. Naruto x Hinata shipper here, yes, they will end up together. Believe it! XD Naruto won't kill him, it's been foreshadowed so many times including this chapter when Naruto says he promised Sakura that 'he'll bring Sasuke back' so yes, Sasuke will come back after he gets defeated by Naruto. It won't be like Hashi and Madara where Hashi killed him but he actually survived and came back later (I hope not lol). yes, he could've developed her much better. Maybe had her have feelings for someone else and start to see Sasuke as an emo guy who tried to kill her but who knows Kishi's reasons for that (aside from lazy, inexperienced etc...). edit: I said obsession since that's what your statement seemed to be implying, not what I think it is. That is my point, because Kishi failed to develop her or any relationship between the two she comes off as really pathetic (and you can see this because a lot of people don't like her). The fact that Kishi is having the Sage and Kakashi somehow approve of her and justify her feelings after she got knocked out makes them seem kinda dumb. She isn't even the one who is going to win over Sasuke. Though now that I think about it, maybe Kishi is going for Sasuke dying. Taking the choice of death because he realizes that he is being the same ponce that Madara was, thus "freeing" Sakura I mean you do know that she is kinda similar to his mom ya know, and research has suggested that people like to marry people similar to those of their opposite sex parent hehehe. Ok maybe that last bit was just a tease because you are a Hinata shipper Thats another relationship that I am pretty meh on. Basically what is underlying my whole argument is that Kishi sucks at writing anything related to romance.
The sage is the smartest guy in all of Naruto therefore you are incorrect in your assumption sir! The sage is merely explaining the intricacies of their complex relationship which are not apparent to the untrained eyes! You have no choice but to accept what he has said as fact. One doesn't live for so many years without gaining a ton of experience!
Dang it, marriage is serious business! In Naruto, you marry those who don't remind you of your opposite sex parent aka Hinata is the opposite in some ways therefore Naruto will marry her! Watch for it! As aNaruto x Hinata shipper, I'm confident that they will prevail against all odds! Sounds like you're meh on relationships (period). Kishi is an amazing writer, think you can do better
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United States15275 Posts
Hinata is probably the most woefully underdeveloped character in the series compared to what she could have been.
Also she's totally my type of girl but that's not influencing my opinion or anything.
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Its pathetic that SAO can do more relationship development in 10-12 eps then nartuto has done in 300.
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On September 26 2014 12:46 Sermokala wrote:
Its pathetic that SAO can do more relationship development in 10-12 eps then nartuto has done in 300.
its almost like Naruto isnt a romance -.-
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On September 26 2014 13:02 Forikorder wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2014 12:46 Sermokala wrote:
Its pathetic that SAO can do more relationship development in 10-12 eps then nartuto has done in 300. its almost like Naruto isnt a romance -.-
....Neither is SAO.....
Sure, they both have varying levels of romance elements, but that doesn't make them romance. It's like saying Mario games are romance because he's saving his girlfriend.
Not that the comparison itself wasn't stupid to begin with.
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TLADT24920 Posts
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About Kishi:+ Show Spoiler +
I remember digging up some Kishi interviews after Pain nearly killed Hinata to see if he'd kill her off back then...
Kishi has openly stated before that the relationships he developed were necessary for the story and that if he weren't so "bad" (his words) at writing females and relationships he might actually have tried to develop them more properly. He went on to say that he was always afraid of losing the "action" if he ever tried to go down a road he wasn't good at. Instead, he envisioned how the relationship would/should have developed if he'd actually written it whenever he suddenly throws it in for a panel.
He also said that he agrees with fans that Sakura and Hinata don't get enough chances to say how they feel and that he "hopes they get some good chances in before the end." (paraphrased) Keep in mind that was many years ago now.
I think this very much explains what he was doing with Sakura in the last chapter.
About Sasuke:+ Show Spoiler +
It's also worth noting that Sasuke is clearly still amused/flattered by her outbursts and didn't exactly treat her like he did Karin, if you know what I mean. Definitely a red flag that he does in fact give a shit about her.
About Sakura:+ Show Spoiler +
Team 7 formed when they were 12 years old, and now they're 17. At those ages, I also had a crush for an 8 year span who had showed a mutual interest in me that was veiled with aloofness, where my affection never waned, no matter what happened. I was angry, bitter, and very confused and didn't get to interact with her much as time went on, but if my crush had been Sasuke, I could very easily see myself acting like Sakura did. Is it rational or mature? Not in the slightest, but a strong love formed in childhood is a *very* hard thing to completely snuff out. Even to this day, if I were suddenly placed in a similarly stressful situation with my long gone crush where we hadn't seen each other in 10 years, I still wouldn't be surprised if I did a similar outburst either.
I very much identified with Sakura's outburst, so you might not like it, but don't go on about how unrealistic it is. Out of everything in Naruto, it has at least a flavor of legitness.
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Shipping community? Really?
Well, to be fair, Kishi has hinted at more romantic developments early on, then stopped developing anything more because Rasengan.
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ALLEYCAT BLUES49496 Posts
On September 26 2014 19:51 Mataza wrote:
Shipping community? Really?
Well, to be fair, Kishi has hinted at more romantic developments early on, then stopped developing anything more because Rasengan.
when you think about it that way, he tried to develop romance and got blue balled.
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On September 26 2014 20:17 BLinD-RawR wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2014 19:51 Mataza wrote:
Shipping community? Really?
Well, to be fair, Kishi has hinted at more romantic developments early on, then stopped developing anything more because Rasengan. when you think about it that way, he tried to develop romance and got blue balled.
Sick pun
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EPT
