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On July 18 2009 12:35 Slaughter)BiO wrote:Show nested quote +On July 18 2009 01:36 fanatacist wrote:
Does anyone else find it kind of annoying/shallow that EVERY character of any significance in the story follows the tragic hero archetype? Ive always taken that as a symbol for how fucked up the ninja world is, soo many bad things/people have happened. Thats why Naruto is like a "revolution" to change their whole world so the tragic/fucked up shit won't be so prevalent. Thats why I think in the end he will be Hokage just to show that he is making good strides in that area.
It's not just the fact that EVERY character is like this, it's the fact that so much drama is brought up about the past and shit. Like it's cool sometimes, like the Madara vs. 1st Hokage shit, but most of the time it's just to make the series more emotional or something. Fuck that.
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I think Kakashi is supposed to be stronger then just "a very strong Jounin". He seems to be famous plus his new sharingan abilities make him pretty fucking strong I would say. I just saw the episode where he 1st used it to fuck up dedaria and that was impressive. Btw Ive heard about the Iron country and do the Ninjas fear the samurai or are they just neutral? Ninja have all those special abilities and it would seem like samurai would just be good soldiers. But of course they can add shit or just make them all like fighters from the kenshin series.
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On July 18 2009 13:04 Slaughter)BiO wrote:
I think Kakashi is supposed to be stronger then just "a very strong Jounin". He seems to be famous plus his new sharingan abilities make him pretty fucking strong I would say. I just saw the episode where he 1st used it to fuck up dedaria and that was impressive. Btw Ive heard about the Iron country and do the Ninjas fear the samurai or are they just neutral? Ninja have all those special abilities and it would seem like samurai would just be good soldiers. But of course they can add shit or just make them all like fighters from the kenshin series.
He is famous as the "Copy Ninja" because he is one of the strongest jounins in one of the strongest nations... Remember, Gai said that him and Kakashi are like 50 to 51 in matches or something (I am assuming they are not all rock-paper-scissors). Kakashi doesn't have good stamina, both in general fighting and with his sharingan. He is good, maybe the best jounin in Konoha, but that's not enough to be hokage.
Samurai are pussies in this manga, probably. Like not literally, but they can't match skilled ninjas (unless they do have some sort of sword-equivalent jutsus and shit).
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On July 18 2009 10:54 fanatacist wrote:Show nested quote +On July 18 2009 06:00 travis wrote:On July 18 2009 00:53 sk` wrote:
You can see Danzo has it in the latest volume. Either way, speculating on the future is silly. Just read and enjoy it. where does it show him with mangekyu sharingan? all it shows is him having a normal (but powerful) sharingan I really doubt he has mangekyu sharingan 1. How do you know his sharingan is "powerful"? I think you have no basis there. 2. Why would you doubt his ability to have mangekyu sharingan? If Kakashi has it, and Danzo is supposedly stronger (I mean why else would he become Hokage?), why can't he have it?
im not gonna look through the manga for exact sources for all of this, so ill just link to narutopedia
The Sharingan, unlike the Byakugan, is not automatically activated in the user by birth. It is only first unlocked under some stressful or emotional condition, after which, though, the Sharingan may be used freely. When the Sharingan is first activated by a user, it has a different number of tomoe (巴) around the central pupil, varying between users.[1][2] The wielder of the Sharingan, through continued use and training, evolves it further which involves it gaining more tomoe, up to a maximum of three. As the Sharingan evolves, the user gains heightened abilities. The only level up from the three tomoe Sharingan is the Mangekyo Sharingan, which is gained by the emotional stress stemming from the loss of someone close to the user.
http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Sharingan
danzo clearly has the three tomoe sharingan.
and I doubt his ability to have the mangekyou sharingan because even madara talks about how big of a deal the mangekyou sharingan is, and how very very few people have had it in the entire history of the uchiha. so why in the world would anyone assume he does, especially if he isn't even an uchiha. and regarding kakashi having it, it's kind of stupid but whatever. but here is my theory regarding that:
it is because he is the badass copy ninja and learned how to do it when itachi sent him to the other dimension and tortured him.
supporting this, later when itachi and kakashi fight, itachi sees his sharingan and says "you couldn't have..."
also, kakashi's mangkeyou looks very similar to itachi's. while madara and sasuke both have radically different appearances to theirs. obviously far fetched speculation but that's what this is about right? 
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Heh, also Itachi originally said you have to kill your closest friend to get it but Sasuke did it differently so more likely its more about the extreme emotions such as killing your friend would induce. I also think its why Kakashi is extremely good because he was able to awaken it even though he is not an Uchia. It seems people don't think to highly of Kakashi having the sharingan... I wonder why since the idea seemed cool to me because that makes him even more unique. Itchai was suprised because Kakashi mentioned the eye damage which only a mangkeyou does to your eyes. I also am kinda confused about the types? Apparently there is that amesatro or w/e that itchati gave sasuke. What is that? I guess ill just have to keep watching the show/read as I know the recent events of the series and the 1st 60 episodes of the part 2 anime but nothing much in between.
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Travis, its pretty obvious Tobi is Danzo, ergo he has mangekyou.
+ Show Spoiler +Find a way to explain Tobi's abilities and attribute the astral projection technique that Akatsuki used multiple times to extract the chakra beasts to a currently live member. Pain is the one that was 'managing' it, yet from his abilities, we see ZERO thematic link there, whereas Tobi not fucking actually BEING where his projection is would explain why NOTHING HITS HIM (ie: http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/357/09/ ). Since Pain was being used by Tobi prior to Tobi's introduction to Akatsuki, it is reasonable to assume that it was actually him who was performing the astral projection technique. http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/404/01/ Here we see that Tobi admits he actively deceived all the members in akatsuki. Note that in this translation there is no statement that he is a past mizukage. He is CLEARLY fucking good at henge, which also plays into his multiple appearances. http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/394/06/Here we get told that itachi had a fight we don't know about; Zetsu makes it pretty blunt that the reason itachi is getting raped is not because of sharingan overuse, its because of a previous battle. "That" itachi is also said 1) not to be dead and 2) completely invulnerable. So against who? The later story section pretty much indicates that Itachi tried to kill madara and failed, then prepared his brother for what would come. Madara is the only person who'd likely be able to stop what amounts to an invincible shield mode, and likely has a chakra demon at this point to prevent the effects of Itachi's spirit sword genjutsu. Madara comments to pain that Sasuke's eyes will be superior to itachi's, which indicates that he's experienced the trio of eye techniques from Itachi. Potential Alternate for the fight? http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/357/06/Kabuto says he's going to surpass orochimaru, kill sasuke, then naruto. Itachi probably doesn't want his brother dying. Fairly unlikely. http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/403/08/Itachi's 'power donation', if very significant, might have caused the discrepancy. http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/356/16/Tobi's quote here with Deidara's quote. Pretty big foreshadowing.
Sasuke did it differently so more likely its more about the extreme emotions such as killing your friend would induce.
Sasuke's Mangekyou is shown for the first time after he recalls the entirety of his childhood with Itachi, who is portrayed as his best friend. Kakashi's awakening isn't shown, so we have no idea exactly what happens there.
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tobi being danzo would seem TOO obvious
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it is absolutely not "pretty obvious tobi is danzo"
that's just a theory that has merit, but also has many GAPING flaws.
for starters, and probably the biggest flaw - their sharingans look different!!!!!
madara uses his right arm, danzo doesn't.
madara wants use out of sasuke, danzo wants sasuke dead.
madara told sasuke danzo ordered the death of uchiha clan. so why would he tell him that if he *IS* danzo
when madara sent pain to capture naruto, danzo tried to keep naruto away from the village. he has done so at other times, too.
they look different
finally... danzo has clear distinct character development. he has a very long past as danzo and a history with the village as danzo. it's just too damn stupid to be the case. what, is the entire village of konaha filled with retards?
if it's the case there are like a million contradictions
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If they were the same person then he would of had to lead almost his whole life like that. Kinda like in the Prestige where Bale's character and his brother basically fooled everyone for years. It would take him coming to the decision to do w/e the fuck he wants to achieve way way back when and then completely dedicating himself to it. Its just too much as both people were known to many people. Unless they were twins or something and were working this together.
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On July 18 2009 15:21 SaveYourSavior wrote:
tobi being danzo would seem TOO obvious
I wouldn't put it past Kishimoto to do this. After all, just about everyone suspected the 4th Hokage is Naruto's dad from day one. How did that end up?
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On July 18 2009 13:13 fanatacist wrote:Show nested quote +On July 18 2009 13:04 Slaughter)BiO wrote:
I think Kakashi is supposed to be stronger then just "a very strong Jounin". He seems to be famous plus his new sharingan abilities make him pretty fucking strong I would say. I just saw the episode where he 1st used it to fuck up dedaria and that was impressive. Btw Ive heard about the Iron country and do the Ninjas fear the samurai or are they just neutral? Ninja have all those special abilities and it would seem like samurai would just be good soldiers. But of course they can add shit or just make them all like fighters from the kenshin series. He is famous as the "Copy Ninja" because he is one of the strongest jounins in one of the strongest nations... Remember, Gai said that him and Kakashi are like 50 to 51 in matches or something (I am assuming they are not all rock-paper-scissors). Kakashi doesn't have good stamina, both in general fighting and with his sharingan. He is good, maybe the best jounin in Konoha, but that's not enough to be hokage. Samurai are pussies in this manga, probably. Like not literally, but they can't match skilled ninjas (unless they do have some sort of sword-equivalent jutsus and shit).
It's been alluded several times by multiple characters that given the lack of Jiraiya and Tsunade, Kakashi is the obvious candidate to become hokage.
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maybe danzo is tobi/madara's latest vessel.. just a guess
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On July 18 2009 06:10 thunk wrote:Show nested quote +On July 18 2009 05:30 freelander wrote:On July 18 2009 05:00 thunk wrote:
The Kakashi story arc is 239-244.
It's actually interesting how Kakashi got the mangekyou sharingan because he specifically stated that he didn't really have anyone close to him anymore and when he said this, he didn't have it (this was right when Kakashi was talking to Sasuke before he was taken by the sound ninja). so did he get it between the end of the original naruto series and when he fought with the exploding clay guy? Yea, I think he got it sometime in the 3 year time jump.
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/247/02/
found it when he tells a little about it
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On July 18 2009 15:31 travis wrote:
it is absolutely not "pretty obvious tobi is danzo"
that's just a theory that has merit, but also has many GAPING flaws.
for starters, and probably the biggest flaw - their sharingans look different!!!!!
madara uses his right arm, danzo doesn't.
madara wants use out of sasuke, danzo wants sasuke dead.
madara told sasuke danzo ordered the death of uchiha clan. so why would he tell him that if he *IS* danzo
when madara sent pain to capture naruto, danzo tried to keep naruto away from the village. he has done so at other times, too.
they look different
finally... danzo has clear distinct character development. he has a very long past as danzo and a history with the village as danzo. it's just too damn stupid to be the case. what, is the entire village of konaha filled with retards?
if it's the case there are like a million contradictions
Why is Madara after sasuke?
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/363/17/
The first and only thing mentioned about his progression from tobi is that his eyes will be superior to Itachi's. Madara also tries to get sasuke to perform the transplant operation to obtain the eternal mangekyou sharingan nearly immediately after Itachi dies. Its pretty obvious that like orochimaru, Madara needs sasuke's eyes for something. Controlling chakra beasts better? I don't know what.
Lets take a look at Madara's face. http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/397/01/
Take a look at Danzo's face. http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/455/03/
Circular wrinkle around the eye and the diagonal creases. From what we can see on that that side of danzo's face, everything is identical so far. Danzo/Madara's hair is also short, black and spiky. His eye covering is the one thing Tobi lets people see. In terms of the face, kishimoto has gone to GREAT lengths to make these two characters potentially the same, drawing the ameratsu scene in 397 VERY carefully to only show the portion of madara's face that danzo has covered. In terms of the bum arm, Kisame's acknowledgement that Madara was/is Misukage implies that he's been pretty much using a transformation for years, because Madara wasn't a no-name ninja and he'd have been recognized.
If Tobi is an astral projection, it explains this: http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/397/10/
He kept something from itachi. Something which allowed him to stop an amaterasu. Not being there substantially decreases your ability to die to an attack ( which has been labeled in multiple sections of the manga as "unavoidable".
Danzo's use of his eye and the look of madara's face indicate that the top left portion of madara's face was burnt off and the sharingan he has there was implanted from somewhere else. He has a single sharingan eye. Why else would he hide his other eye?
To add s'more beef to this: Zetsu explains that the two sharingan eyes are not equivilant during the fight between sasuke and Itachi. The 3 eye techniques that mangekyou can perform are localized to certain eyes. This would explain exactly WHY madara is interested in sasuke's eyes, and why Danzo would be interested in orochimaru's data (which was also obviously centered on obtaining sasuke's eyes).
Next:
Why would Danzo and Madara be moving for 'opposing' goals? Because he isn't. Danzo withholds something ridiculous like 30 root members during the Pain's invasion of Konoha. Madara sends Pain. Madara sent the kyuubi. Its pretty obvious that we don't know ALL of Madara's intentions or back story, but from what we know he HATES the legacy of the first and second hokage because they had their little cockfight and he lost. This matches up nearly identically to Danzo's position. Both of them are somewhat fine with konoha being destroyed. In terms of sasuke, if Madara really IS just after sasuke's fully developed eyes, he either wouldn't care if sasuke died.
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Maybe Danzo got Obitos 2nd eye? Maybe he was trying to setup Kakashis and 4ths team back in those days when kakashi got his eye.
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On July 18 2009 22:15 ThePhan2m wrote:
Maybe Danzo got Obitos 2nd eye? Maybe he was trying to setup Kakashis and 4ths team back in those days when kakashi got his eye.
Obitos second eye was crushed, along with the right side of his body
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/243/14/
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On July 18 2009 12:49 fanatacist wrote:Show nested quote +On July 18 2009 11:10 Jayme wrote:On July 18 2009 10:54 fanatacist wrote:On July 18 2009 06:00 travis wrote:On July 18 2009 00:53 sk` wrote:
You can see Danzo has it in the latest volume. Either way, speculating on the future is silly. Just read and enjoy it. where does it show him with mangekyu sharingan? all it shows is him having a normal (but powerful) sharingan I really doubt he has mangekyu sharingan 1. How do you know his sharingan is "powerful"? I think you have no basis there. 2. Why would you doubt his ability to have mangekyu sharingan? If Kakashi has it, and Danzo is supposedly stronger (I mean why else would he become Hokage?), why can't he have it? How do you know Danzo became Hokage due to any virtue of strength? It was an emergency meeting where Danzo pretty much yelled and BAM became Hokage and I mean really... Kakashi is probably stronger than Tsunade in most categories that count yet she was Hokage. Danzo wouldn't be anything if it wasn't for strength - his position with ROOT, the elders, etc. are all because of his abilities. Tsunade revolutionized shinobi team organization, is older (more wise), has more brute strength, has unmatched healing ability. Kakashi is just a very strong Jounin.
What the hell are you talking about?
Why are you underestimating what being charismatic does to other people? Danzo still hasn't shown the ability to be STRONG. Showing off a single sharingan and beating some cannon fodders shinobi isn't enough to prove anything.
He's most likely way way past his prime... and crippled.
You don't need strength to be a leader in other areas... sometimes all it takes is good charisma.
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soooo does anybody here think Naruto is just dragging on?
i thought i would end really soon 
I've been reading it since the 6th grade and im 16 now... (yes thats 4 years)
Danzo sucks he's just gonna get pwned. good guys always win. watch!
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As far as I know, Sharigan wise, you unlock the Mangekyou Sharigan (MS) by killing your best friend. When you unlock the MS, you gain 1 technique which uses your left eye, one that uses your right, and one that uses both together. I think most people agree that one in normally a genjustu, one a ninjutsu and the third is a wildcard.
I believe Kakashi obtained the MS because he blamed himself for his best friends (Obito's) death, and whatever psychological acceptance of that is what gave him the MS, Why he only gained it during timeskip? Perhaps because it was only reflecting on Team Seven, which reminded himself of his own team that he realized or whatever.
I think it's pretty likely that Madara wants Sasuke to implant Itachi's MS, giving Sasuke the Eternal Mangekyou Sharigan (and presumedly allowing Sasuke to use Itachi's 3 MS Jutsu, except that just before his death, Itachi did some weird ass pull fusion seal thingy that allows Sasuke to use his 3 justu anyway). Madara will then pluck out Sasuke's EMS eyes and use them for himself.
We know that Madara has the EMS from his brother Izuna, which (we assume) gives him his long life and the phasing jutsu he has. What we know from the Sharigan is that a lot of it is about stealing peoples eyes to make yourself stronger.
Achieve a MS, transplant another MS and you get an EMS, I would guess that if you have an EMS and transplant another EMS you get !!Super!! Eternal Mangkyou Sharigan, which is what Madara wants, and he'll end up the sole Uchiha (something we know he wants, because of his hate for the clan that betrayed him).
As for Naruto going on for a long time, well yea, it has been 10 years since it was first published, Kishimoto was probably doing concepts and research for over a year, maybe 2 before he started, so Naruto has been around for a LONG time. Never know things are going to go, I know that a lot of anime is getting cancled in Japan because of the Global Financial Crisis, and the money just isn't in it. To me, that says that they're just going to milk the big 3 (One Piece, Naruto, Bleach) even more, so I imagine Naruto is probably getting towards the end, but it probably has 100+ chapters to go.
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On July 18 2009 23:07 Jayme wrote:Show nested quote +On July 18 2009 12:49 fanatacist wrote:On July 18 2009 11:10 Jayme wrote:On July 18 2009 10:54 fanatacist wrote:On July 18 2009 06:00 travis wrote:On July 18 2009 00:53 sk` wrote:
You can see Danzo has it in the latest volume. Either way, speculating on the future is silly. Just read and enjoy it. where does it show him with mangekyu sharingan? all it shows is him having a normal (but powerful) sharingan I really doubt he has mangekyu sharingan 1. How do you know his sharingan is "powerful"? I think you have no basis there. 2. Why would you doubt his ability to have mangekyu sharingan? If Kakashi has it, and Danzo is supposedly stronger (I mean why else would he become Hokage?), why can't he have it? How do you know Danzo became Hokage due to any virtue of strength? It was an emergency meeting where Danzo pretty much yelled and BAM became Hokage and I mean really... Kakashi is probably stronger than Tsunade in most categories that count yet she was Hokage. Danzo wouldn't be anything if it wasn't for strength - his position with ROOT, the elders, etc. are all because of his abilities. Tsunade revolutionized shinobi team organization, is older (more wise), has more brute strength, has unmatched healing ability. Kakashi is just a very strong Jounin. What the hell are you talking about? Why are you underestimating what being charismatic does to other people? Danzo still hasn't shown the ability to be STRONG. Showing off a single sharingan and beating some cannon fodders shinobi isn't enough to prove anything. He's most likely way way past his prime... and crippled. You don't need strength to be a leader in other areas... sometimes all it takes is good charisma.
What the HELL are YOU talking about?
Charisma? Is this the first chapter of Naruto you've read? How many people actually like Danzo? Hmm, just about 0. Danzo didn't become hokage just by going "I WILL BE HOKAGE," the elders agreed with him.
You don't think someone has to be an expert in ninjutsu to train an organized team such as ROOT? You don't think that even if he is "past his prime," he can kick ass? Half of the strongest characters in this show are technically "old," but are still fucking beastly. Are you sure that those bandages aren't just a facade? The one on his face sure fucking was, why can't the one on his arm be as well?
You don't need charisma to be a tyrant, and Danzo is a perfect example of that.
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EPT
