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Deleted User 3420
24492 Posts
On July 05 2009 06:52 FragKrag wrote: cuz Naruto is a pussy lmao. He feels guilty or something so he lets them hit him. no its because naruto is a crazy badass who doesn't give a fuck he knows they're mad so he lets them vent it out on him cuz he's so crazy that he just dun give a fuck | ||
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Slaughter
United States20255 Posts
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jodogohoo
Canada2533 Posts
On July 05 2009 08:08 travis wrote: no its because naruto is a crazy badass who doesn't give a fuck he knows they're mad so he lets them vent it out on him cuz he's so crazy that he just dun give a fuck naruto is trying to be a hero | ||
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guMmiwormz
United States312 Posts
On July 05 2009 08:55 Slaughter)BiO wrote: Has the Naruto vs Pain episodes come out on anime? If it did what episodes are they? no they have not. although i did see some short clips of naruto vs pain fanmade animations on youtube  | ||
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fanatacist
10319 Posts
On July 05 2009 07:44 Jayme wrote: Well we agree here How difficult? AS far as has been shown Naruto can keep up Sage mode practically forever unless he starts throwing his FRS's all over the place but yea Sasuke is naturally extremely fast so point to both sure Also pretty obvious Naruto is not quite as hopeless in Taijutsu as you make him here given his recent acquisition of the frog kata's but advantage still to Sasuke. Sage mode means Naruto has a completely secondary source of chakra running through his system which given the Naruto universe would grant immunity. Not only that but Naruto has shown that he is able to ward off Genjutsu simply by flaring Kyuubi chakra. You are also forgetting the frog song which has been shown to rival the Tsukuyomi in power as it trapped PAIN within it. It takes some preparation sure but Sasuke does not possess seven bodies with which to kill preparing frogs with. Naruto was about to use this against Pain so he obviously can use it himself... the frog in question just died. Sasuke again doesn't have the monumental advantage you portray BUT I would over all give this point to Sasuke I guess. No, you either give a point to both here or you give the point to Naruto. In no way is Sasuke the superior party when you speak of Ninjutsu. You are forgetting the combinations with Kage Bunshin and the long range FRS allows for stupidly sneaky surprise attacks of all sorts. Naruto has a mastery of Kawarimi that is seriously underplayed considering how he demolished Pain on like three seperate occasions with it. Also you can't just take Ninjutsu seperately from chakra stamina because frankly Sasuke can't use his abilities all that much... Naruto can, especially if he has two shadow clones in never never land with sage chakra ready to use. We don't know how Chidori is going to react with the much improved Rasengans. Naruto also has a Futon: Rasengan which while less powerful than the FRS he can spam and prepare much faster. Wind > Lightning and if the Rasengan BARELY lost to the Chidori then the uncompleted wind variation should demolish it. I would go with a point for both here, I just don't see Sasuke having such a huge advantage. Yea this goes without saying Point for Sasuke over Naruto here? I dunno, Naruto has shown extremely quick Kawarimi switches even before sage mode I.E the Kakuzu skirmish. You're underrating Naruto's reaction here by quite a lot. I guess though that the Sharingan advantage would give Sasuke the edge in reaction time so point to him. I would have agreed with you until the Pain fight. They are equal now in terms of smart fighter. Yes, even if Sasuke still had Manda here Naruto would hold a supreme advantage. He has three boss level summons now. So that brings my final tally to uh 6-7 for Sasuke but several occasions where I slimmed down the advantage taking the most current fights. Sasuke trounced Naruto in basically every category until the Pain vs Naruto fight. Naruto showed such great intelligence and tactics during the fight that it just cannot be ignored. In a fight between the two right now I would almost give the advantage to Sasuke... simply because Naruto's fighting style isn't really tailored toward one on ones. Naruto has a lot of mass destruction abilities made for blowing things like opposing summons apart without the need to summon his own. I would send Sasuke out for an assassination mission, I would send Naruto out to blow up an army. Two different specialties. I like the points you bring up and I completely agree with your last statement. However, I was hypothesizing the attributes for their 1-on-1, so that's what I was focused on (: Further along this topic, even though I think Sasuke works best alone (as does Naruto), Sasuke is a superior team fighter. Also, don't forget the area-effect moves he has as well, like the chidori current that he can spread around himself. As was discussed a few pages ago in this thread, Naruto seems to be going back to his dumb annoying self, and has bursts of stupidity (even after moments of excellence), which is why I can't say that the Naruto vs. Pain battle was a turning point of any sort, not yet at least. Rei brought up some good points (unlike other people who just said "lol wtf naruto rapez sasuke." 1. I think your comment of Sasuke using ninjutsu to make himself faster is relatively irrelevant, unless you are trying to make a connection between his lower chakra levels and necessity of using the speed burst to hold his own in a battle (thus depleting the chakra he has so little of in comparison to Naruto), and I can see a valid point there. 2. I also think it's a stretch to say that Sasuke can't use abilities related to snakes. I doubt that he could only use them because he had Orochimaru in his body. However this is just an assumption and we don't have any evidence in each direction. This to me does not change things that much in either direction, although the snake arms that stopped Jugo was pretty badass (must be a strong technique to hold him back). Would've liked to see more stuff like that. 3. Your point on genjutsu vs. shadow clones ignores a few very important aspects. One of which is that if Sasuke's abilities are beginning to rival Itachi's, he should be ableto cast genjutsu just as easily as Itachi - just a finger pointing at the target. Also, Itachi was fighting Kakashi while Naruto was under the genjutsu - in a one-on-one scenario, there won't be anyone to force the chakra into Naruto (and I don't remember the last time the kyuubi chakra saved him from genjutsu, can you remind me?) unless he made summons beforehand, and if Sasuke is smart and uses his speed on top of a surprise genjutsu attack, it could be over in a two-hit combo (genjutsu, chidori channel). Also, Itachi cast it before Naruto had a chance to do anything - this could easily happen again. 4. Yes it is still a mystery what Itachi gave to Naruto, but I suspect it has to be similar to the protective amaterasu he gave to Sasuke (and not an actual ability that Naruto can use), which could easily be a one-time-only ability. Once again we don't have evidence in either direction, but I think it would be too ridiculous to have Sasuke and Naruto be impervious to sharingan by auto-casting amaterasu when they are under its effect. I doubt Naruto will have the same reaction, since he has no sharingan and therefore it'd be retarded for him to be able to defensively cast amaterasu, but if it IS something of that sort I can't see it being any sort of counter-offensive move like Sasuke's counter to Madara's, because once again he has no sharingan. 5. Although I agree that neither will be out to completely annihilate the other should they battle, they will still be using their big skills because historically they always have gone all-out. Do you remember the flame that engulfed all of Naruto's clones, leaving him on top of molten lava, and then the fucking smash of Naruto's head through the stone that made Sasuke PUKE? Yea. It will be brutal. 6. I doubt Sasuke has the power to contain the fox just because he has the ability to enter the chamber room, if you remember the fox that he popped was merely a shadow of the real fox's power, and I don't think Sasuke has the sharingan of Madara or the abilities of the 4th quite yet. 7. The sage clone thing is exactly what I meant by necessary prep and difficulty of use. Another reason why I suspect this would make a battle vs. Sasuke on-the-fly very much in Sasuke's favor. So, in the end, although I agree with a lot of your points, or merely have slight alterations to some, I think Sasuke has the advantage. We can agree to disagree here I guess (: | ||
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Deleted User 3420
24492 Posts
On July 06 2009 04:20 fanatacist wrote: 3. Your point on genjutsu vs. shadow clones ignores a few very important aspects. One of which is that if Sasuke's abilities are beginning to rival Itachi's, he should be ableto cast genjutsu just as easily as Itachi - just a finger pointing at the target. Also, Itachi was fighting Kakashi while Naruto was under the genjutsu - in a one-on-one scenario, there won't be anyone to force the chakra into Naruto (and I don't remember the last time the kyuubi chakra saved him from genjutsu, can you remind me?) unless he made summons beforehand, and if Sasuke is smart and uses his speed on top of a surprise genjutsu attack, it could be over in a two-hit combo (genjutsu, chidori channel). Also, Itachi cast it before Naruto had a chance to do anything - this could easily happen again. it wasn't just a finger pointing naruto had to look at his ring, right? | ||
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Avius
Iraq1796 Posts
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/413/15/ | ||
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L
Canada4732 Posts
On July 06 2009 06:18 Avius wrote: please read what killerbee says about illusions: http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/413/15/ Also note that when killer bee talks to his demon later, the conversation heavily implies that he didn't actually need to transform. | ||
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fanatacist
10319 Posts
On July 06 2009 05:39 travis wrote: it wasn't just a finger pointing naruto had to look at his ring, right? Well, from what I gathered in both the anime and manga, he said "I can cast genjutsu with just one finger [sic]" Although he did use the ring finger, I don't see why the ring was important, and it was never stated that Naruto actually looked at the finger (although I guess it would make sense for this to be the case). Whether or not the ring was the essential ingredient isn't certain; however, why wouldn't others be able to use their rings for the same purpose? I find it hard to believe that there is a genjutsu ring for Itachi and the others don't get anything of that sort. | ||
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fanatacist
10319 Posts
On July 06 2009 06:18 Avius wrote: please read what killerbee says about illusions: http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/413/15/ Note how it states that he has control of the beast, and is able to freely transform into the beast. Both are things that are far beyond Naruto's grasp right now. Of course an unintentional transformation into the "fox cloak" would probably dispel/prevent genjutsu, it is never intentional or controlled by Naruto, so far. | ||
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Avius
Iraq1796 Posts
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fanatacist
10319 Posts
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
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Avius
Iraq1796 Posts
found a pic of sage+fox, skimming through and seeing all the details now missed it all the first time | ||
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fanatacist
10319 Posts
On July 06 2009 08:05 Avius wrote: http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/444/06/ found a pic of sage+fox, skimming through and seeing all the details now missed it all the first time The eyes arise whenever Naruto gets mad and is on the verge of tapping into the Fox chakra and thereafter. Once again, although the tapping into the chakra is intentional, it is not "control." However, I imagine tapping into the chakra would yield similar results to having chakra channeled through him by someone else. But, you also have to consider the fact that Naruto has to be in his consciousness to go into the depths of his mind or wherever the chamber is to tap it - I am not so sure that he can do so when under genjutsu. | ||
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Jayme
United States5866 Posts
On July 06 2009 07:52 Ace wrote: probably also because Naruto's beast also promising to kill him isn't too encouraging It's a retarded plot hole that Kishimoto refuses to comment on. Think of it this way, the Yondaime is hailed as the seal master of seal masters. The guy was supposed to have nearly unparalleled mastery of sealing jutsu and the way they work so competence is not in question. Why is it then that other hidden villages have made seals that allow full and complete transformation without self harm while the Yondaime could not? Take Gaara, who had the shittiest seal of them all but was still able to bring out all of Shukaku's power at the loss of control. It never shortened his life span. Why is it that the seal master of all seal masters couldn't make a seal that would allow Naruto to draw on like a mere four tails without going ape shit berserk, it makes no damn sense. The only way I see it is that Naruto would be completely and totally unstoppable if he could bring four tails+ under control. K4 has shown power rivaling that of Killer Bee with all 8 of his tails out. So Kishimoto had to cap it or god forbid he would have a competent main character before chapter 330. I mean really.. the seal was just about to fall apart at six tails... good going there Minato. | ||
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FragKrag
United States11567 Posts
That'd partially explain it I guess. | ||
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Deleted User 3420
24492 Posts
On July 06 2009 06:53 fanatacist wrote: Well, from what I gathered in both the anime and manga, he said "I can cast genjutsu with just one finger [sic]" Although he did use the ring finger, I don't see why the ring was important, and it was never stated that Naruto actually looked at the finger (although I guess it would make sense for this to be the case). Whether or not the ring was the essential ingredient isn't certain; however, why wouldn't others be able to use their rings for the same purpose? I find it hard to believe that there is a genjutsu ring for Itachi and the others don't get anything of that sort. you're right actually I can't find anywhere that it specifically says that it is the ring. however... I still think it is  i think its no coincidence it's the ring finger. and think about it, akatsuki was started by madara - also a sharingan user. the others wouldn't be able to use it for the same purpose because they don't know how, im guessing. like akatsuki's robes, the rings are the same colors as the sharingan. not a coincidence i think. at least I like to think so haha | ||
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Jayme
United States5866 Posts
On July 06 2009 08:28 FragKrag wrote: Well, isn't the 9 tails the most powerful of all of them? That'd partially explain it I guess. Like I said you can take that as you please but Naruto starts losing it after three tails. Each tail exponentially increases his power and the seal the fourth put on HIS OWN SON couldn't even contain three tails worth of power? Not only that but the seal actually started to BREAK DOWN when Naruto hit six tails. That's kinda risky you know. If you are afraid that the Kyuubi will break out when it hits six tails why on earth even allow that much chakra to be used? | ||
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Deleted User 3420
24492 Posts
On July 06 2009 08:21 Jayme wrote: It's a retarded plot hole that Kishimoto refuses to comment on. Think of it this way, the Yondaime is hailed as the seal master of seal masters. The guy was supposed to have nearly unparalleled mastery of sealing jutsu and the way they work so competence is not in question. Why is it then that other hidden villages have made seals that allow full and complete transformation without self harm while the Yondaime could not? Take Gaara, who had the shittiest seal of them all but was still able to bring out all of Shukaku's power at the loss of control. It never shortened his life span. Why is it that the seal master of all seal masters couldn't make a seal that would allow Naruto to draw on like a mere four tails without going ape shit berserk, it makes no damn sense. well from what I understand the fox isn't like the others in that it's chakra is all burny and shit. and it's supposed to be the most powerful, much more powerful than gaara's giant fag squirrel also how do you know that some of the other jinchurikis didn't go through a similar process that naruto has? | ||
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