EPT[Manga] Naruto - Page 67
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Xe(-_-)Ro
Canada69 Posts
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fanatacist
10319 Posts
On July 04 2009 05:22 rei wrote: since sasuke can no longer fly any more, how can he reach gaara if gaara decide to fly 2 miles above ground and just sand sink 5 square miles of land? oh wait he can burn gaara with black fire Why can't Sasuke fly again? Unless you are referring to some other time he flew, I think he is still able to use the hand-wings. | ||
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doktorLucifer
United States855 Posts
Now if only Kishimoto would double the length of each week's issue.. hmm. | ||
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rei
United States3593 Posts
On July 04 2009 05:59 fanatacist wrote: Why can't Sasuke fly again? Unless you are referring to some other time he flew, I think he is still able to use the hand-wings. the cursed seal is gone http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/415/13/ He can't transform into level 2 curse seal any more. That's why he wasn't able to keep up with killerbee i think, his eyes can keep up but not his movement when killerbee stabbed his ass with 9 swords. | ||
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fanatacist
10319 Posts
On July 04 2009 11:17 rei wrote: the cursed seal is gone http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/415/13/ He can't transform into level 2 curse seal any more. That's why he wasn't able to keep up with killerbee i think, his eyes can keep up but not his movement when killerbee stabbed his ass with 9 swords. I see, nice catch. That definitely hurts Sasuke's abilities IMO, because the curse seal is what made him just edge out a win against Naruto the first time (not entirely relevant now, but still something to consider) and he used it in important battles before (vs. Orochimaru for example). I guess the acquisition of new eye-techniques and his expansion of Chidori abilities makes him a more well-rounded ninja, which is one thing Naruto lacks, so it's too early to call the balance yet (even if Zetsu said Naruto might be stronger than Sasuke). | ||
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Jayme
United States5866 Posts
On July 05 2009 03:32 fanatacist wrote: I see, nice catch. That definitely hurts Sasuke's abilities IMO, because the curse seal is what made him just edge out a win against Naruto the first time (not entirely relevant now, but still something to consider) and he used it in important battles before (vs. Orochimaru for example). I guess the acquisition of new eye-techniques and his expansion of Chidori abilities makes him a more well-rounded ninja, which is one thing Naruto lacks, so it's too early to call the balance yet (even if Zetsu said Naruto might be stronger than Sasuke). Hmm Naruto is pretty damn well rounded himself now... as long as he continues to fight like he did against Pain. Really strong, really fast, his FRS is long range and short range and it's massively destructive, it's implied he can use sage mode and kyuubi chakra at the same time, and he just has massive amounts of chakra. Uchiha were never known for their stamina as even Itachi had only like average chakra capacity. Sasuke relies on a few big powerhouse moves that consume a ton of his chakra against someone who is basically one stop short of immortal. | ||
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Deleted User 3420
24492 Posts
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fanatacist
10319 Posts
On July 05 2009 03:37 Jayme wrote: Hmm Naruto is pretty damn well rounded himself now... as long as he continues to fight like he did against Pain. Really strong, really fast, his FRS is long range and short range and it's massively destructive, it's implied he can use sage mode and kyuubi chakra at the same time, and he just has massive amounts of chakra. Uchiha were never known for their stamina as even Itachi had only like average chakra capacity. Sasuke relies on a few big powerhouse moves that consume a ton of his chakra against someone who is basically one stop short of immortal. Well the way I see it, here is a side-by-side of some of the important abilities/attributes of shinobi: STAMINA Very important, correlates directly to amount of chakra available and endurance, etc. Naruto has the upper hand here by a lot. Naruto 1-0 Sasuke. SPEED Naruto is really fast in Sage mode, but you also have to consider the difficulties of staying in Sage mode and the fact that it requires massive amounts of preparation. Sasuke is probably not as fast as Sage mode Naruto, but his base speed is faster than Naruto's (merely an opinion based on recent battles). Going to give a point to both on this one. Naruto 2-1 Sasuke. STRENGTH In terms of a close range punch-for-punch scenario, I think it's pretty evident that Naruto is stronger. Naruto 3-1 Sasuke. TAIJUTSU This is Sasuke's win, however. Sasuke has shown infinitely better taijutsu abilities, because that is what he has been training constantly under Orochimaru (along with other things) - crowd control. In their first battle, Sasuke was already able to handle mass amounts of Shadow Clones well. Sasuke's copy of Rock Lee's taijutsu, and his own improvements later on, make him superior in my opinion. Naruto 3-2 Sasuke. GENJUTSU Sasuke. Naruto has 0 genjutsu abilities and isn't even that good at countering them. Keep in mind that Sasuke has mangekyu sharingan as well, which means he can really start dishing out powerful genjutsu now, crippling shit. This would almost be 2 points to Sasuke because Sasuke has superior genjutsu, and Naruto has none, but whatever. Naruto 3-3 Sasuke. NINJUTSU Sasuke. Naruto only has a few abilities, almost all of them based on Rasengan: Rasengan, Oodama Rasengan, Rasenshuriken (short and long range), and Kage Bunshin. His only long-range ability is relatively slow and easy to dodge, as seen in his battle vs Pain, and Sasuke's sharingan will give him to ability to see it coming well beforehand. The other Rasengans are close range abilities, which have been countered by Chidori in the past, and once again probably evident beforehand to Sasuke. Shadow Clones have been aptly negated by sharingan in the past. Sasuke has: Chidori and all of its manipulations (like 3-4 of them, including the lightning ability), Fire element abilities (we've seen at least 3-4 of these as well), and things like Amaterasu which are connected to his sharingan (also a few these abilities that we can assume he possesses because he has a more advanced sharingan than Kakashi). I am going to assume that he still has snake-related abilities as well, even though Orochimaru is no longer in his body (right?) because he was trained under Orochimaru and probably could use them beforehand as well (things like his snake arms). Naruto 3-4 Sasuke. WEAPON USE Sasuke has his sick-ass katana that he can channel chidori through, which rapes other weapons (as seen in his encounter with Yamato). Naruto has basic shinobi gear. The weapon gives the close-range weapon fights a bias towards Sasuke, easily. Naruto 3-5 Sasuke. REACTION TIME Very important in battle, and I think it's evident that Sasuke has the better one due to sharingan. Naruto's Sage mode speed is not important if he doesn't have the eye speed to use it in a defensive manner. Naruto 3-6 Sasuke. INGENUITY Naruto and Sasuke both have this, and I will give them both a point for this. But be honest, who seems to be the smarter fighter? Naruto throws around his massive chakra like its nothing and is wasteful with it a lot of the time, because he knows that if he doesn't land this rasenshuriken he can just make another. Sasuke has always been a good conservationist, has always fought smart, has always been a good reactionary and intuitive fighter. Although Naruto gets his flashes of brilliance, Sasuke is by far the "smarter" fighter IMO. Naruto 4-7 Sasuke. SUMMONING Naruto has the advantage by a mile here, but I can't see how the summons would seriously aid in a small-scale one-on-one battle vs. Sasuke. Still, Naruto 5-7 Sasuke. SUMMARY: I think that Naruto is clearly not well-rounded in these categories at least. Of course even though I gave the point to Sasuke in the taijutsu and ninjutsu categories, Naruto still has abilities in both - but they are relatively inferior to Sasuke's. Add in Sasuke's far superior elemental chakra manipulation abilities, infinitely better genjutsu abilities, and the reaction time inherent with sharingan, Sasuke is far better rounded than Naruto. Naruto's major strengths are still brute force and rasengan, with the occasional spark of ingenuity in battle. Sasuke uses all the abilities he has in unison to create a power house. EDIT: Added summons. | ||
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kdog3683
United States916 Posts
On July 05 2009 04:07 fanatacist wrote: Well the way I see it, here is a side-by-side of some of the important abilities/attributes of shinobi: STAMINA Very important, correlates directly to amount of chakra available and endurance, etc. Naruto has the upper hand here by a lot. Naruto 1-0 Sasuke. SPEED Naruto is really fast in Sage mode, but you also have to consider the difficulties of staying in Sage mode and the fact that it requires massive amounts of preparation. Sasuke is probably not as fast as Sage mode Naruto, but his base speed is faster than Naruto's (merely an opinion based on recent battles). Going to give a point to both on this one. Naruto 2-1 Sasuke. STRENGTH In terms of a close range punch-for-punch scenario, I think it's pretty evident that Naruto is stronger. Naruto 3-1 Sasuke. TAIJUTSU This is Sasuke's win, however. Sasuke has shown infinitely better taijutsu abilities, because that is what he has been training constantly under Orochimaru (along with other things) - crowd control. In their first battle, Sasuke was already able to handle mass amounts of Shadow Clones well. Sasuke's copy of Rock Lee's taijutsu, and his own improvements later on, make him superior in my opinion. Naruto 3-2 Sasuke. GENJUTSU Sasuke. Naruto has 0 genjutsu abilities and isn't even that good at countering them. Keep in mind that Sasuke has mangekyu sharingan as well, which means he can really start dishing out powerful genjutsu now, crippling shit. This would almost be 2 points to Sasuke because Sasuke has superior genjutsu, and Naruto has none, but whatever. Naruto 3-3 Sasuke. NINJUTSU Sasuke. Naruto only has a few abilities, almost all of them based on Rasengan: Rasengan, Oodama Rasengan, Rasenshuriken (short and long range), and Kage Bunshin. His only long-range ability is relatively slow and easy to dodge, as seen in his battle vs Pain, and Sasuke's sharingan will give him to ability to see it coming well beforehand. The other Rasengans are close range abilities, which have been countered by Chidori in the past, and once again probably evident beforehand to Sasuke. Shadow Clones have been aptly negated by sharingan in the past. Sasuke has: Chidori and all of its manipulations (like 3-4 of them, including the lightning ability), Fire element abilities (we've seen at least 3-4 of these as well), and things like Amaterasu which are connected to his sharingan (also a few these abilities that we can assume he possesses because he has a more advanced sharingan than Kakashi). I am going to assume that he still has snake-related abilities as well, even though Orochimaru is no longer in his body (right?) because he was trained under Orochimaru and probably could use them beforehand as well (things like his snake arms). Naruto 3-4 Sasuke. WEAPON USE Sasuke has his sick-ass katana that he can channel chidori through, which rapes other weapons (as seen in his encounter with Yamato). Naruto has basic shinobi gear. The weapon gives the close-range weapon fights a bias towards Sasuke, easily. Naruto 3-5 Sasuke. REACTION TIME Very important in battle, and I think it's evident that Sasuke has the better one due to sharingan. Naruto's Sage mode speed is not important if he doesn't have the eye speed to use it in a defensive manner. Naruto 3-6 Sasuke. INGENUITY Naruto and Sasuke both have this, and I will give them both a point for this. But be honest, who seems to be the smarter fighter? Naruto throws around his massive chakra like its nothing and is wasteful with it a lot of the time, because he knows that if he doesn't land this rasenshuriken he can just make another. Sasuke has always been a good conservationist, has always fought smart, has always been a good reactionary and intuitive fighter. Although Naruto gets his flashes of brilliance, Sasuke is by far the "smarter" fighter IMO. Naruto 4-7 Sasuke. SUMMONING Naruto has the advantage by a mile here, but I can't see how the summons would seriously aid in a small-scale one-on-one battle vs. Sasuke. Still, Naruto 5-7 Sasuke. SUMMARY: I think that Naruto is clearly not well-rounded in these categories at least. Of course even though I gave the point to Sasuke in the taijutsu and ninjutsu categories, Naruto still has abilities in both - but they are relatively inferior to Sasuke's. Add in Sasuke's far superior elemental chakra manipulation abilities, infinitely better genjutsu abilities, and the reaction time inherent with sharingan, Sasuke is far better rounded than Naruto. Naruto's major strengths are still brute force and rasengan, with the occasional spark of ingenuity in battle. Sasuke uses all the abilities he has in unison to create a power house. EDIT: Added summons. You don't take into account: 0) Sasuke can summon Orichmaru's snakes btw. Snake vs Frogs is equal so I would say that's negated. I don't think the sage frogs count as 'summons' since they seem to be their own entities. 1) Battle 1: Naruto Lost - He has higher motivation to "bring" his friend back. 2) Whenever Naruto is under genjitsu, he can talk with Fox in the jail area to bring himself back. Although he has no control over this, this is what inevitably happens every time he has been in dire straits. 3) This battle won't happen in the first place because 1) If Sauske win = same scenario, if naruto win = Sasuke = Sad = isn't going to willingly say "Oh, you beat me, I'll be your friend again." More than likely, they team up as anti-foreshadowed by all the "kill sauske crap" going on in recent chapters. | ||
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fanatacist
10319 Posts
On July 05 2009 04:17 kdog3683 wrote: You don't take into account: 1) Battle 1: Naruto Lost - He has higher motivation to "bring" his friend back. 2) Whenever Naruto is under genjitsu, he can talk with Fox in the jail area to bring himself back. Although he has no control over this, this is what inevitably happens every time he has been in dire straits. 3) This battle won't happen in the first place because 1) If Sauske win = same scenario, if naruto win = Sasuke = Sad = isn't going to willingly say "Oh, you beat me, I'll be your friend again." More than likely, they team up as anti-foreshadowed by all the "kill sauske crap" going on in recent chapters. 1) I wasn't using the outcome of the battle in any of my analysis and it's pretty evident that they were trying as hard as they could to disable the other person (Naruto even stated that he would break Sasuke's bones to bring him back). That final chidori/rasengan collision was not somehow affected by Naruto's desire to bring Sasuke back (in the sense that he didn't hold anything back). Not a valid argument. 2) He has never talked with the fox while under genjutsu, he tried channeling his own chakra but failed vs Itachi, had to ask outsiders for help. There is no guarantee that he can communicate withthe fox while under genjutsu. 3) Not relevant, but I think the battle is inevitable. Think about what the high points of this manga are, and what everything has been building to. This is of course an opinion but I believe strongly in mine. | ||
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Deleted User 3420
24492 Posts
ameratsu would be sasuke's only hope I think sage mode naruto could just break sasuke's genjutsu. even itachi commented that naruto nearly had what it takes to break his genjutsu - and that was before sage mode (but maybe itachi wasn't using everything he had). but anyways I think soon naruto will be able to use the fox and then there will be no way sasuke could stand a chance | ||
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
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Gnaix
United States438 Posts
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rei
United States3593 Posts
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/357/10/ And he doesn't have any ability of Orochimaru any more, Itachi made sure of it when he whoop the shit out of Orochimaru at the end of sasuke vs itachi fight. As evidence he didn't use any of orochimaru's ability vs killerbee. Because fighting Naruto is like fighting an army of clons, and because of shadow clon distributes energy evenly in all of them, Sasuke have no way to land a genjutsu on the right naruto, unless he's using sound, or smell genjutsu that can hit multiple targets in the same time. His eye's genjutsu has to contact with the other person's eyes, and there could be 2000 naruto eyes in the same time. Also naruto can intentionally avoid eye contact like Gai suggested. http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/143/15/ Also Itachi gave part of his power to naruto just before he fought Sasuke, The way he gave his power to sasuke to try to kill tobi, I am guessing that as soon as naruto falls in sasuke's genjutsu, itachi's power will activate. naruto is not ganna use his most destructive skills for sure, he doesn't wanna kill sasuke, just like sasuke is not ganna call lightning from the sky to nuke naruto. but sasuke will use that black flame because he can stop it at anytime. Sasuke might be able to just remove naruto's 9tail seal, and then use his eyes to control the 9tail within naruto. because sasuke can materialize inside naruto's Fox gate sealing place. The fight also depend on if naruto have time to set up his clones to suck natural energy. The frog sage said something about the max clone naruto can make while using natural energy is 4. so during the time naruto using his sage mode, he will not be able to make his 2000 shadow clones. A lot of possibilities, but I think sasuke has the disadvantage. | ||
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thunk
United States6233 Posts
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Scaramanga
Australia8090 Posts
that was a bit wtf | ||
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FragKrag
United States11540 Posts
On July 05 2009 06:46 Scaramanga wrote: i dont know why he just didnt tell them to fuck off, instead of saying just beat me that was a bit wtf cuz Naruto is a pussy lmao. He feels guilty or something so he lets them hit him. | ||
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Gnaix
United States438 Posts
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Jayme
United States5866 Posts
On July 05 2009 04:07 fanatacist wrote: Well the way I see it, here is a side-by-side of some of the important abilities/attributes of shinobi: STAMINA Very important, correlates directly to amount of chakra available and endurance, etc. Naruto has the upper hand here by a lot. Naruto 1-0 Sasuke. Well we agree here SPEED Naruto is really fast in Sage mode, but you also have to consider the difficulties of staying in Sage mode and the fact that it requires massive amounts of preparation. Sasuke is probably not as fast as Sage mode Naruto, but his base speed is faster than Naruto's (merely an opinion based on recent battles). Going to give a point to both on this one. Naruto 2-1 Sasuke. How difficult? AS far as has been shown Naruto can keep up Sage mode practically forever unless he starts throwing his FRS's all over the place but yea Sasuke is naturally extremely fast so point to both sure STRENGTH In terms of a close range punch-for-punch scenario, I think it's pretty evident that Naruto is stronger. Naruto 3-1 Sasuke. Also pretty obvious TAIJUTSU This is Sasuke's win, however. Sasuke has shown infinitely better taijutsu abilities, because that is what he has been training constantly under Orochimaru (along with other things) - crowd control. In their first battle, Sasuke was already able to handle mass amounts of Shadow Clones well. Sasuke's copy of Rock Lee's taijutsu, and his own improvements later on, make him superior in my opinion. Naruto 3-2 Sasuke. Naruto is not quite as hopeless in Taijutsu as you make him here given his recent acquisition of the frog kata's but advantage still to Sasuke. GENJUTSU Sasuke. Naruto has 0 genjutsu abilities and isn't even that good at countering them. Keep in mind that Sasuke has mangekyu sharingan as well, which means he can really start dishing out powerful genjutsu now, crippling shit. This would almost be 2 points to Sasuke because Sasuke has superior genjutsu, and Naruto has none, but whatever. Naruto 3-3 Sasuke. Sage mode means Naruto has a completely secondary source of chakra running through his system which given the Naruto universe would grant immunity. Not only that but Naruto has shown that he is able to ward off Genjutsu simply by flaring Kyuubi chakra. You are also forgetting the frog song which has been shown to rival the Tsukuyomi in power as it trapped PAIN within it. It takes some preparation sure but Sasuke does not possess seven bodies with which to kill preparing frogs with. Naruto was about to use this against Pain so he obviously can use it himself... the frog in question just died. Sasuke again doesn't have the monumental advantage you portray BUT I would over all give this point to Sasuke I guess. NINJUTSU Sasuke. Naruto only has a few abilities, almost all of them based on Rasengan: Rasengan, Oodama Rasengan, Rasenshuriken (short and long range), and Kage Bunshin. His only long-range ability is relatively slow and easy to dodge, as seen in his battle vs Pain, and Sasuke's sharingan will give him to ability to see it coming well beforehand. The other Rasengans are close range abilities, which have been countered by Chidori in the past, and once again probably evident beforehand to Sasuke. Shadow Clones have been aptly negated by sharingan in the past. Sasuke has: Chidori and all of its manipulations (like 3-4 of them, including the lightning ability), Fire element abilities (we've seen at least 3-4 of these as well), and things like Amaterasu which are connected to his sharingan (also a few these abilities that we can assume he possesses because he has a more advanced sharingan than Kakashi). I am going to assume that he still has snake-related abilities as well, even though Orochimaru is no longer in his body (right?) because he was trained under Orochimaru and probably could use them beforehand as well (things like his snake arms). Naruto 3-4 Sasuke. No, you either give a point to both here or you give the point to Naruto. In no way is Sasuke the superior party when you speak of Ninjutsu. You are forgetting the combinations with Kage Bunshin and the long range FRS allows for stupidly sneaky surprise attacks of all sorts. Naruto has a mastery of Kawarimi that is seriously underplayed considering how he demolished Pain on like three seperate occasions with it. Also you can't just take Ninjutsu seperately from chakra stamina because frankly Sasuke can't use his abilities all that much... Naruto can, especially if he has two shadow clones in never never land with sage chakra ready to use. We don't know how Chidori is going to react with the much improved Rasengans. Naruto also has a Futon: Rasengan which while less powerful than the FRS he can spam and prepare much faster. Wind > Lightning and if the Rasengan BARELY lost to the Chidori then the uncompleted wind variation should demolish it. I would go with a point for both here, I just don't see Sasuke having such a huge advantage. WEAPON USE Sasuke has his sick-ass katana that he can channel chidori through, which rapes other weapons (as seen in his encounter with Yamato). Naruto has basic shinobi gear. The weapon gives the close-range weapon fights a bias towards Sasuke, easily. Naruto 3-5 Sasuke. Yea this goes without saying REACTION TIME Very important in battle, and I think it's evident that Sasuke has the better one due to sharingan. Naruto's Sage mode speed is not important if he doesn't have the eye speed to use it in a defensive manner. Naruto 3-6 Sasuke. Point for Sasuke over Naruto here? I dunno, Naruto has shown extremely quick Kawarimi switches even before sage mode I.E the Kakuzu skirmish. You're underrating Naruto's reaction here by quite a lot. I guess though that the Sharingan advantage would give Sasuke the edge in reaction time so point to him. INGENUITY Naruto and Sasuke both have this, and I will give them both a point for this. But be honest, who seems to be the smarter fighter? Naruto throws around his massive chakra like its nothing and is wasteful with it a lot of the time, because he knows that if he doesn't land this rasenshuriken he can just make another. Sasuke has always been a good conservationist, has always fought smart, has always been a good reactionary and intuitive fighter. Although Naruto gets his flashes of brilliance, Sasuke is by far the "smarter" fighter IMO. Naruto 4-7 Sasuke. I would have agreed with you until the Pain fight. They are equal now in terms of smart fighter. SUMMONING Naruto has the advantage by a mile here, but I can't see how the summons would seriously aid in a small-scale one-on-one battle vs. Sasuke. Still, Naruto 5-7 Sasuke. Yes, even if Sasuke still had Manda here Naruto would hold a supreme advantage. He has three boss level summons now. So that brings my final tally to uh 6-7 for Sasuke but several occasions where I slimmed down the advantage taking the most current fights. Sasuke trounced Naruto in basically every category until the Pain vs Naruto fight. Naruto showed such great intelligence and tactics during the fight that it just cannot be ignored. In a fight between the two right now I would almost give the advantage to Sasuke... simply because Naruto's fighting style isn't really tailored toward one on ones. Naruto has a lot of mass destruction abilities made for blowing things like opposing summons apart without the need to summon his own. I would send Sasuke out for an assassination mission, I would send Naruto out to blow up an army. Two different specialties. | ||
TanGeng
Sanya12364 Posts
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