EPT[TV] Hannibal - Page 16
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Lemonerer
Israel135 Posts
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MadProbe
United States269 Posts
definitely going to rewatch this series. it seems so complex and with so many subtleties. i was a bit confused about the plot and why hannibal did what he did, so i tried to write it out. im probably wrong in some parts but now it all makes more sense to me: + Show Spoiler + it's clear that hannibal was doing manipulative psychological experiments on will and abigail "because he was curious". and he was planning to dispose of them when he was done from the beginning. his experiments are based on trying to turn them into killers. right up into the climax, hannibal is still trying to convert will to become a psychopath, to make him believe that he is actually a killer like hannibal. "look at what you've done. see how you feel. are you a killer, will?" even though at the end, will is imprisoned and hannibal gets away free, imo will is victorious. he says "i know who i am. i am not a killer." he overcomes his self-doubt, illness and hannibals meticulous season-long attempts to change him. just imagine the opposite, right before will gets shot he could have said "you're right, i'm just like you" and then they'd be friends and it would have been a very different ending. i guess hannibal didn't expect that during his experimentation he would grow to like will and abigail. but he had to sacrifice abigail in his attempt to "solve/save" will. but that didn't work so i see why he said he "utterly failed them both". | ||
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Dazed.
Canada3301 Posts
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Jago
Finland390 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + To me it seems bright as day that the psychologist is fully aware of who Hannibal really is. A few episodes ago it was very strongly implied that the patient who attacked Hannibal's psychologist died not because he slipped, but because Hannibal killed him and his psychologist covered it up. In the finale, there is an even stronger point supporting this view: the moment where the psychologist tells Hannibal something along the lines of "They will soon discover your pattern" "What pattern?" "You get involved with patients who have a history of violence". | ||
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Acrofales
Spain18500 Posts
On June 21 2013 22:00 karpotoss wrote: I still feel like the entire fucking fbi is retarded for their inability to connect couple of dots concerning hanniball. He is tagging along Will all the time, knows details of every crime, two patients were killed in his cabinet, he is extremely adept at human anatomy, the doctor and aquitance of hanniball that gave the diagnosis of Will's brain is dead two days later, and i guess you could nitpick much more. Overall i won't be watching next seasons because it felt stale already. But it seems i am in minority. Pretty much this. They could have replaced Jack Crawford with a sack of cement and it would have done a better job, both in the series and as the head of the FBI. That really is a parody of the character. Regarding Hannibal and Scully: I don't know the extent to which Scully knows what Hannibal does, but she clearly knows more than anybody else. Question: does she know she's eating Abigael when Hannibal brings her dinner? | ||
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Neino
Norway295 Posts
On June 22 2013 22:39 Jago wrote: Am I completely misunderstanding the relationship between Hannibal and his psychologist or is everyone else missing it? + Show Spoiler + To me it seems bright as day that the psychologist is fully aware of who Hannibal really is. A few episodes ago it was very strongly implied that the patient who attacked Hannibal's psychologist died not because he slipped, but because Hannibal killed him and his psychologist covered it up. In the finale, there is an even stronger point supporting this view: the moment where the psychologist tells Hannibal something along the lines of "They will soon discover your pattern" "What pattern?" "You get involved with patients who have a history of violence". No, it heavily implies that. All the more reason to doubt it! | ||
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Blitzkrieg0
United States13132 Posts
On June 22 2013 22:48 Acrofales wrote: Pretty much this. They could have replaced Jack Crawford with a sack of cement and it would have done a better job, both in the series and as the head of the FBI. That really is a parody of the character. Regarding Hannibal and Scully: I don't know the extent to which Scully knows what Hannibal does, but she clearly knows more than anybody else. Question: does she know she's eating Abigael when Hannibal brings her dinner? I thought it was implied when she made that face after the first bite. At the very least she knew it wasn't veal. | ||
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Jago
Finland390 Posts
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Neino
Norway295 Posts
On June 23 2013 01:52 Jago wrote: Oh and one very obvious giveaway was when it was mentioned that Bedelia (I had to actually look up her name now instead of calling her Scully) went out of her way to avoid Hannibal's dinner parties and that Hannibal bringing the food TO her was the only way they'd be able to have dinner together. She was absolutely aware that she was eating human and the reason she didn't decline when Hannibal showed up at her door is because Hannibal would find it very rude. It all makes sense now. It's possible that she just wants to keep the whole doctor/patient thing seperate from friendship though. She's been talking a bit about that concerning Hannibal and Will. I don't necessarily disagree, but we should look at all the options :D | ||
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Jago
Finland390 Posts
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Acrofales
Spain18500 Posts
On June 23 2013 01:43 Blitzkrieg0 wrote: I thought it was implied when she made that face after the first bite. At the very least she knew it wasn't veal. I was thinking that too, but it just doesn't make sense given the little psych talks they keep having. Hannibal is clearly keeping up appearances (or he'd just tell her that he was fucking with Will's brain, rather than keep lying about all that). So she probably doesn't know the full extent of his crimes. Which brings me to: hey guys, it's TV, we can do whatever the fuck we want! And it was a wink to the viewer, to make it clear that the viewer knows they're eating Abigael, without Scully actually knowing. It's terrible direction, but seems to be the only way the look of disgust can be combined with: 1. Her actually eating it (or she is incredibly afraid of Hannibal, which doesn't seem to be the case) 2. The keeping up appearances deal | ||
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Dazed.
Canada3301 Posts
On June 23 2013 01:43 Blitzkrieg0 wrote: I think were reading into a situation they want us to read into, but in reality its far more innocent. He saved her from her attacker, yes, and I believe she thinks hes psychopathic or very close to it, but I dont think she knows hes a murderer or a cannibal, just as matter of a hobby.I thought it was implied when she made that face after the first bite. At the very least she knew it wasn't veal. | ||
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Blitzkrieg0
United States13132 Posts
On June 23 2013 04:23 Dazed_Spy wrote: I think were reading into a situation they want us to read into, but in reality its far more innocent. He saved her from her attacker, yes, and I believe she thinks hes psychopathic or very close to it, but I dont think she knows hes a murderer or a cannibal, just as matter of a hobby. or she knows and won't cross him because she values her life. | ||
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Dazed.
Canada3301 Posts
On June 23 2013 04:31 Blitzkrieg0 wrote: His question to her makes no sense in that context, because it was all about how she perceives him as a person. In light of recent circumstances, it would do nothing but reinforce her idea that he was a psychopathic murderous cannibal, and she also doesnt seem nervous around him at all.or she knows and won't cross him because she values her life. | ||
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stevarius
United States1394 Posts
I have to keep telling myself that Hannibal is the name of the show. >_> | ||
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Blitzkrieg0
United States13132 Posts
On June 23 2013 04:36 Dazed_Spy wrote: His question to her makes no sense in that context, because it was all about how she perceives him as a person. In light of recent circumstances, it would do nothing but reinforce her idea that he was a psychopathic murderous cannibal, and she also doesnt seem nervous around him at all. Her profession gives her the means to distort her emotions. I wouldn't trust any emotions or lack there of that a psychiatrist displays. Personally if feels like a matter where she is more dense than the FBI if she doesn't know what Hannibal really is. Her motives for keeping it a secret are far more interesting. | ||
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Dazed.
Canada3301 Posts
On June 23 2013 04:42 Blitzkrieg0 wrote: Not really, how could she know he kills people as a hobby? You might discern he has no emotions but unless he makes clear implications that he enjoys murder, there shouldnt be a reason to think it. The only way her character will be interesting if shes related to the slow discovery of who hannibal is, otherwise shes just the blonde chick who talks in an annoyingly low tone in various cut scenes. No progression.Her profession gives her the means to distort her emotions. I wouldn't trust any emotions or lack there of that a psychiatrist displays. Personally if feels like a matter where she is more dense than the FBI if she doesn't know what Hannibal really is. Her motives for keeping it a secret are far more interesting. | ||
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Blitzkrieg0
United States13132 Posts
On June 23 2013 04:45 Dazed_Spy wrote: Not really, how could she know he kills people as a hobby? You might discern he has no emotions but unless he makes clear implications that he enjoys murder, there shouldnt be a reason to think it. The only way her character will be interesting if shes related to the slow discovery of who hannibal is, otherwise shes just the blonde chick who talks in an annoyingly low tone in various cut scenes. No progression. The fact that anyone who speaks ill of him dies is a good indication (or his friend; Hannibal also killed people who spoke ill of Will). I suppose she wouldn't have easy access to this information, but I get the picture that Hannibal has killed at least a hundred people. You've gotta pick up the pattern at some point or another. What would be more interesting is if she knows he is a killer and actively helps him. Her slowly discovering he is a killer is pretty boring to me. She isn't into the whole cannibal thing and we don't know what motivates her to kill yet. Maybe Hannibal saving her from death gave him control similar to Abigail? Maybe they were both killers before said event and that connected them because they discovered each others secret. The possibilities are endless. | ||
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Dekker
Germany169 Posts
I'm excited to see how Hannibal is able to turn Will around again to beeing his friend. If I remember right, the series is supposed to be before Red Dragon, and there Will was realizing Hannibal was the killer they were searching for for quite some time. In the state we are now, Will is already aware of Hannibal as the Killer. I'm wondering how they will play this one out. | ||
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Eurekastreet
1308 Posts
On June 22 2013 16:14 MadProbe wrote: wow i cant wait for the next season. this is my fav tv show. the acting of will and hannibal is really good, the script is amazing, and the artistic way it's shot/directed is a pleasure to watch. definitely going to rewatch this series. it seems so complex and with so many subtleties. i was a bit confused about the plot and why hannibal did what he did, so i tried to write it out. im probably wrong in some parts but now it all makes more sense to me: + Show Spoiler + it's clear that hannibal was doing manipulative psychological experiments on will and abigail "because he was curious". and he was planning to dispose of them when he was done from the beginning. his experiments are based on trying to turn them into killers. right up into the climax, hannibal is still trying to convert will to become a psychopath, to make him believe that he is actually a killer like hannibal. "look at what you've done. see how you feel. are you a killer, will?" even though at the end, will is imprisoned and hannibal gets away free, imo will is victorious. he says "i know who i am. i am not a killer." he overcomes his self-doubt, illness and hannibals meticulous season-long attempts to change him. just imagine the opposite, right before will gets shot he could have said "you're right, i'm just like you" and then they'd be friends and it would have been a very different ending. i guess hannibal didn't expect that during his experimentation he would grow to like will and abigail. but he had to sacrifice abigail in his attempt to "solve/save" will. but that didn't work so i see why he said he "utterly failed them both". + Show Spoiler + I'm not as enthousiastic as you are about the show, for me it's a bit of a letdown compared to Silence of the Lambs (the movie) and the whole book serie, but those were so good it's probably hard to live up to those standards. I like the work of Mikkelsen as Hannibal, the guy acting as Will is so-so (I find his acting monotonous/repetitive/rather flat - it might not be his fault, maybe it's the director's), the relationship between H and W is at times interesting but the 1 serial killer per episode format in season 1 is just too much for me, a lot of graphical violence that doesn't add much to the plot, and murder cases that get solved before I could even start caring about them is ok for 2-3 episode, not for a full season. The red thread/abigail story is interesting but could have taken much more of the show time in my opinion. Now to your other point, you might be right, my interpretation is somewhat different. I don't think Hannibal is trying to convert Will to become a psychopath. I think he genuinely cares about Will, just like he does care about Clarice in the books, and actually tries to protect him. He's found a good person / a person he likes and would never try and hurt them (spoiler inside the spoiler - at least at this point of the story,for those who read Red Dragon, we all know there's a twist there / end of spoiler inside the spoiler). I don't know what to think about Abigail yet. We only saw one ear and assumed he killed her, I actually wonder if she's really dead or if it's just another future plot twist (I'd go for the latest, I'd be surprised if they made an important character disappear just like that, just for the sake of Hollywood drama standards). And even if he killed her, her role in the killings was ambiguous, so it might be that Hannibal knew it and therefore didn't care about her that much. Now all of my reasoning might be wrong just because I interpret this / the Hannibal character based on all the previous novels/movies and in those he never seems to be experimenting on people he likes/good people (I assume Will is one of them - that might be my mistake but I definitely think he is based on vague moral standards), whereas Hannibal loves to play around with people/has no problem hurting anyone who have obvious morality issues (pardon my french, I'm struggling with english for this bit) - what is moral and what isn't having to be defined but that's a longer discussion. Maybe he's just a young Hannibal, and still does mistakes about his moral/personality judgments but the "old" one never seemed to change his mind about anyone and I'd rather think this is a personality trait he developed very young. I think Will ends up in prison despite Hannibal's attempt to help him, Hannibal probably will try and help him get out of it in the future, but not at the price of his own freedom, which was the bargain at the end of this season, one of them had to go to jail, and I don't think Hannibal would sacrifice his freedom for anyone (or at least anyone we know) so far.... Well I could write pages about it but I'll stop there, gotta go watch HSC! I hope season 2 really develops the Will/Hannibal relationship and focus heavily on it (i.e. dialogues, character development), and spare us all the silly mass murdering/graphical filling (leave that to CSI or whatever), then I could get really enthousiastic about it | ||
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