I will assume that anyone who reads this full post has seen the Star Wars movies, so this post is full of spoilers and spoilers the ending. If you have not seen them yet / do not know the story yet, here is the TL;DR version of my post: Watch the movies in this sequence: Episode 4, 5, 2, 3, 6. Do not watch Episode 1, because it's a bad movie and does not add any relevant context. Now get out of here and watch the movies in the above sequence.
I was pointed to an article on a website called "Absolutely no Machete Juggling" which discusses in which order the Star Wars movies would ideally be watched to get the best Star Wars experience. You can read the whole (rather long) article above or read my summarisation here (if you read the article, no point in reading my full post, jump to the horizontal line).
Watching Star Wars in the Machete order:
The article makes the point that the best way to watch all 6 Star Wars movies is to actually only watch 5 of them in the following order: Ep. IV, V, II, III, VI.
This way, you follow the path of Luke Skywalker for two movies, up to the (for first time viewers) surprising and shocking relevation that Darth Vader is Lukes father. Then we leave the current storyline and instead follow Anakin Skywalker for two movies in an extended flashback, which culmulates in the creation of Darth Vader and another surprising relevation that Leia is actually Lukes twin sister (at the end of episode III). Then everything is tied up in episode VI.
This way, the viewer sees much more of the paralles between Luke and Anakin, how they progress and their path to become a Jedi. So in this way, episode II and III actually help enhancing the old triology. Here are two examples (Quotes from other articles):
The first time we see Luke in Return of the Jedi, he’s wearing all-black, just like his father did [in Episode II and III]. He gives R2D2 and C-3P0 to Jabba the Hutt, much to their surprise. Luke isn’t exactly looking like a clean-cut Jedi like he claims. Then, when he finally enters Jabba’s palace, the musical cue sounds a bit like the Imperial March, and the way he enters with the light behind him makes it unclear if he is Luke or Vader. Then, he force chokes Jabba’s guards, something only Vader has done in the series! Nobody else sees him do this.
When he confronts Jabba, he warns him that he’s taking his friends back. He says Jabba can either profit from this, “or be destroyed.” Furthermore, he tells Jabba “not to underestimate my power.” The last time this phrase was used, it was by Anakin when dueling Obi-Wan. When watching Jedi on its own, Luke just seems a tad arrogant during these scenes. When watching Jedi immediately after watching Revenge of the Sith, the message is clear: Luke Skywalker is on the path to the Dark Side.
Why does this matter? Because at the end of Jedi, Luke confronts the Emperor. The Emperor explains that the assault on the new Death Star is a trap and that his friends are going to die, and he keeps taunting Luke, telling him to grab his lightsaber and fight him. The film is trying to create a tension that Luke might embrace the Dark Side, but it was never really believable. However, within the context of him following in his father’s footsteps and his father using the power of the dark side to save people, with Luke’s friends being killed just outside the Death Star window, this is much more believable.
Shortly after, Luke goes apeshit and beats the hell out of Vader, clearly succumbing to his anger. He overpowers Vader with rage and cuts his arm off, just like Anakin did to Windu in Episode III. Having the very real threat of Luke following in his father’s path made clear by watching II and III before VI heightens the tension of this scene, and it actually makes Return of the Jedi better. Yes, watching Revenge of the Sith makes Return of the Jedi a better, more effective film. Considering it’s the weakest of the original trilogy films, this improvement is welcome.
from David Pallant's article on Den of Geek Yoda is powerful. He can lift a spaceship that is 50 time his size; he can sense the revolution of the clones quicker than any other Jedi (and survives as a result of it) and he is the only Jedi that can catch lightning bolts. While Luke is Darth Vader’s equal, Yoda is the Emperor’s, and so when the Emperor defeats him at the end of Episode III, Revenge Of The Sith, he becomes the greatest failure in the entire saga.
Watching the films in the Machete Order gives greater understanding of Yoda’s troubled past. When he warns Luke “Do not underestimate the power of the Emperor”, you realise he is speaking from experience. It’s is a level of reading that would otherwise be missed. As his defeat at the hands of the Emperor happens only one film prior, his words bite with a bitterness that would be commonly overlooked in the more familiar chronological running order.
Additionally, the flow of the movies works out really well in this order. Episode IV is still the most accessible movie for new viewers. Episode V is often called the best movie of series, and ends with an epic cliffhanger. Then you fit in the two movies that are a bit weaker, but you are so hooked at this point that you really love to see the story of Anakins past and how Darth Vader was "born". Finally you watch Episode VI, where everything is tied up and ends on a high note with the destruction of the second Death Star and the death of the two leader figures of the Empire, the imperator and Darth Vader.
So you might think now: "Ok, I get it, the Machete Order is cool. But why no episode I?"
Because everything that happens in episode I is irrelevant for the rest of the movies or is being explained in the other movies as well. At the beginning of episode two, there is an introduction of all relevant characters. Two of the more important characters of episode I (Qui-Gon and Darth Maul) are dead and are never referenced again (well, Qui-Gon is referenced twice, but in context, and it's not really relevant or confusing for the new viewer). The whole story of episode I is negligible for the rest of the movies. And look at what you gain! For Example:
Almost no Jar Jar Binks
no midichlorians
no pod racing
to only list a few. Add to that that episode I is clearly the worst movie of the six, and there is no reason to watch it with the other five. You can watch it later, as sort of prequel to the Star Wars Quintology, much like the expanded universe stuff, or not watch it at all.
Edit: I failed to point something out in the original post, so here is the edit with an answer I wrote on page 5:
Only watching 4, 5, 6 is of course a very valid approach. The idea behind the Machete order is that the author tried to combine the old and the new triology in the best possible way. Of course, if you do not like the new movies at all, then the Machete order might not help you there and you better just stick to the old movies.
I actually have not yet watched the movies in the Machete Order, but plan to do so, as I find the article to be very convincing. My wife has not seen any of the movies, and in a few years my kids will be old enough to watch Star Wars themselves. I know now in which order I will let them watch it, as I think it will be the best possible experience available. (Of course I will make sure that the see the original theatralic version of the old movies, not the special edition stuff that I really despise.). Even if my wife might not want to watch it, I'll probably make a movie session in the near future with friends to rewatch Star Wars in the Machete order.
So what do you guys think about this? A good reason to watch the movies again for you? Or do you prefer another order to watch the movies in?
I think this could be a fun weekend adventure, might even get my fiance to actually watch the new episodes, she refuses right now.
Mostly though this article just reminded me of the worst part of episode I, no not the pod racing (awful) or jarjar binks (dreadful) My worst moments were, Darth Maul. He was supposed to be so badass, a straight up killer, untouchable fighter and then he fell down a shaft...I've never recovered from the injustice that was Darth Mauls portrayl in Episode 1.
On January 16 2013 01:39 BernabusStarcraft2 wrote: Watched them all very recently. Enjoyed them fine the normal way around.
I think it would only matter for first time viewers, and who hasn't seen them already?
My wife has not seen them yet I think there are many younger people outside the geeky/nerdy scene who do not have the same connection to the movies as we do.
The only thing I disagree with is that I honestly consider episode 2 the worst movie in the series. Episode 1 did have a lot of dumb things in it but the acting in episode was literally so painful I could barely sit thru it whereas episode 1 did have a good story if it had gotten out of its way a bit.
On January 16 2013 01:47 Diabulus wrote: Oo how can you say Episode 1 is a bad movie? Anything made by George Lucas, even a porno, would be 10 stars/ 10 from me -.-
Ep1 was absolutely atrocious and added nothing to the series whatsoever. And I fucking love Liam Nesson, so it pains me that it was so trash.
On January 16 2013 01:47 Diabulus wrote: Oo how can you say Episode 1 is a bad movie? Anything made by George Lucas, even a porno, would be 10 stars/ 10 from me -.-
to only list a few. Add to that that episode I is clearly the worst movie of the six, and there is no reason to watch it with the other five. You can watch it later, as sort of prequel to the Star Wars Quintology, much like the expanded universe stuff, or not watch it at all.
That can be improved upon:
If you watch IV, V, VI, then you have no Jar Jar Binks at all. Everybody wins.
Why would you ever subject yourself to the horror that was Episode 2? The best way to watch star wars is 4, 5, 6. There's no point to watching the prequels unless you want a plot that makes no sense at all, no defined main characters, shallow and emotionless romance, incredibly implausible chases, and worst of all, the destruction of Yoda and the Force.
Also Attack of the Clones is much, much worse than Phantom Menace.
On January 16 2013 01:47 Diabulus wrote: Oo how can you say Episode 1 is a bad movie? Anything made by George Lucas, even a porno, would be 10 stars/ 10 from me -.-
Ep1 was absolutely atrocious and added nothing to the series whatsoever. And I fucking love Liam Nesson, so it pains me that it was so trash.
I could not agree more. SWI is horribad and Liam Neesson is absolutely brilliant.
I like watching EP III and EP IV directly afterwards, as I'm actually really impressed by how dark a mood is set up in EP. So I'm feeling really down, borderline depressed actually after seeing EP III and get a nice uplift by EP IV.
On January 16 2013 01:47 Diabulus wrote: Oo how can you say Episode 1 is a bad movie? Anything made by George Lucas, even a porno, would be 10 stars/ 10 from me -.-
Ep1 was absolutely atrocious and added nothing to the series whatsoever. And I fucking love Liam Nesson, so it pains me that it was so trash.
I could not agree more. SWI is horribad and Liam Neesson is absolutely brilliant.
I like watching EP III and EP IV directly afterwards, as I'm actually really impressed by how dark a mood is set up in EP. So I'm feeling really down, borderline depressed actually after seeing EP III and get a nice uplift by EP IV.
Heres the thing about episode 1, it had a LOT of good things in it. It had a good story that if directed better would have made for a good movie, it had a great villain and good heroes which is why everyone was disapointed with how the final battle went. Episode 2 was basically all the problems episode 1 had but with a worse villain, a more annoying hero and a romance that to call forced would be like calling Usain Bolt fairly quick.
This sequence of viewing would work if it weren't for the fact that episode 2 was just so goddamn awful. I regretted watching it because it completely killed any enthusiasm I had for SW
Might try this order one day, seems to makes a lot of sense. Maybe it would be an idea to watch the "Attack of the Phantom" version of episode II, since it really tightens up the movie, and actually makes it into a decent movie experience. I would watch it any day over the original.
On January 16 2013 01:47 Diabulus wrote: Oo how can you say Episode 1 is a bad movie? Anything made by George Lucas, even a porno, would be 10 stars/ 10 from me -.-
Ep1 was absolutely atrocious and added nothing to the series whatsoever. And I fucking love Liam Nesson, so it pains me that it was so trash.
I could not agree more. SWI is horribad and Liam Neesson is absolutely brilliant.
I like watching EP III and EP IV directly afterwards, as I'm actually really impressed by how dark a mood is set up in EP. So I'm feeling really down, borderline depressed actually after seeing EP III and get a nice uplift by EP IV.
Heres the thing about episode 1, it had a LOT of good things in it. It had a good story that if directed better would have made for a good movie, it had a great villain and good heroes which is why everyone was disapointed with how the final battle went. Episode 2 was basically all the problems episode 1 had but with a worse villain, a more annoying hero and a romance that to call forced would be like calling Usain Bolt fairly quick.
I mean yeah, but is it really a feasible option to skip out on Ep 2? I mean at least for this model, I think leaving Ep 2 out would just clusterfuck the new viewer and leave them semi, if not completely, lost as to Anakin's whole deal.
This is really interesting. My gf only watched episode IV in the last month and (surprisingly) enjoyed it. I may make her watch the remaining movies in the order suggested.
Now I know where my friend found this the other day.
Really intriguing. As someone who has watched the movies endlessly since I could ever remember, the Machete order seems very logical and a great way to introduce people to Star Wars.
Never thought about it this way. I actually have quite a few friends who have never seen Star Wars. I think I'll convince them to watch the films in this order!
On January 16 2013 01:47 Diabulus wrote: Oo how can you say Episode 1 is a bad movie? Anything made by George Lucas, even a porno, would be 10 stars/ 10 from me -.-
Then, my good man, you should really see Howard the Duck.
Why would you re-watch Star Wars? Maybe 30 years ago it was a breakthrough and started new genre, but from today perspective it has second-class actors and so full of cliches that you can predict any upcoming plot 'twist' like killing all bad guys without a scratch or falling in love/rescuing a beautiful princess or getting away from death AT THE LAST POSSIBLE SECOND WOWOWOWOW SO CLOSE.
I'm just curious why people like these movies, except for 'everybody says it is good so I will watch it and say it so epic thrilling good too'.
On January 16 2013 03:30 Dandel Ion wrote: Episode 1 is important precisely BECAUSE of the podracing. The rest is negligable, but PODRACING! dude... podracing.
If I watch the series I just do it in the usual order, skip the Jar Jar bits in the first one where possible, skip 50% of episode 2 cause it's awful, then most of Episode 3 til the betrayal starts to happen cause General Grevious is fucking horrible.
I would never tell someone to not watch Episode 1, Podracing is awesome and Darth Maul is a great villain. You just need to remind them Jar Jar has about 5 minutes of screen time after EP1!
This sounds like an interesting way to incorporate two of the three new movies into the original sequence. I just might arrange a movie-weekend with my friends to rewatch Starwars in a better order.
On January 16 2013 03:30 laegoose wrote: Why would you re-watch Star Wars? Maybe 30 years ago it was a breakthrough and started new genre, but from today perspective it has second-class actors and so full of cliches that you can predict any upcoming plot 'twist' like killing all bad guys without a scratch or falling in love/rescuing a beautiful princess or getting away from death AT THE LAST POSSIBLE SECOND WOWOWOWOW SO CLOSE.
I'm just curious why people like these movies, except for 'everybody says it is good so I will watch it and say it so epic thrilling good too'.
It's a simple story told in an interesting universe. Stuff don't have to be overly complex or have huge unexpected twists to be enjoyable.
On January 16 2013 03:37 JKM wrote: This sounds like an interesting way to incorporate two of the three new movies into the original sequence. I just might arrange a movie-weekend with my friends to rewatch Starwars in a better order.
On January 16 2013 03:30 laegoose wrote: Why would you re-watch Star Wars? Maybe 30 years ago it was a breakthrough and started new genre, but from today perspective it has second-class actors and so full of cliches that you can predict any upcoming plot 'twist' like killing all bad guys without a scratch or falling in love/rescuing a beautiful princess or getting away from death AT THE LAST POSSIBLE SECOND WOWOWOWOW SO CLOSE.
I'm just curious why people like these movies, except for 'everybody says it is good so I will watch it and say it so epic thrilling good too'.
It's a simple story told in an interesting universe. Stuff don't have to be overly complex or have huge unexpected twists to be enjoyable.
That exactly. And also, the whole falling in love/rescuing a beautiful princess with the heros getting away without a scratch were homages to movie serials and what not (iirc, that's what George Lucas said in his interviews).
Also, I'm pretty sure James Earl Jones, Harrison Ford, Alec Guinness, and Peter Cushing are not second-class actors.
On January 16 2013 03:30 laegoose wrote: Why would you re-watch Star Wars? Maybe 30 years ago it was a breakthrough and started new genre, but from today perspective it has second-class actors and so full of cliches that you can predict any upcoming plot 'twist' like killing all bad guys without a scratch or falling in love/rescuing a beautiful princess or getting away from death AT THE LAST POSSIBLE SECOND WOWOWOWOW SO CLOSE.
I'm just curious why people like these movies, except for 'everybody says it is good so I will watch it and say it so epic thrilling good too'.
It's supposed to be cliche to an extent. It's fun, basic story telling done well. If you thought that the good guys winning was a "plot twist" you are doing it wrong.
If someone asked me how he is supposed to watch Star Wars, I'd tell him to only watch IV, V and VI and not bother with the rest at all. Episode 1 was horseshit, 2 and 3 were average, a disappointment for the original Star Wars. No order can salvage that.
On January 16 2013 01:41 crms wrote: I think this could be a fun weekend adventure, might even get my fiance to actually watch the new episodes, she refuses right now.
Mostly though this article just reminded me of the worst part of episode I, no not the pod racing (awful) or jarjar binks (dreadful) My worst moments were, Darth Maul. He was supposed to be so badass, a straight up killer, untouchable fighter and then he fell down a shaft...I've never recovered from the injustice that was Darth Mauls portrayl in Episode 1.
Haha you make his death sound even more lame than it was. He didn't just trip and fall into a shaft and die, he was bisected with a saber thrust he could've seen coming for several seconds.
On January 16 2013 02:30 Plexa wrote: This is really interesting. My gf only watched episode IV in the last month and (surprisingly) enjoyed it. I may make her watch the remaining movies in the order suggested.
I got my wife to watch episode IV, and that's all I've been able to do. I'll probably make her watch V and then give up on making her watch any of the others. She's a bit stubborn in her tastes.
I'll definitely continue watching in this order though. I'm very much in favour of any order that leaves out Episode I completely
On January 16 2013 01:47 Diabulus wrote: Oo how can you say Episode 1 is a bad movie? Anything made by George Lucas, even a porno, would be 10 stars/ 10 from me -.-
Now I really want to see a porno directed by George Lucas. l000000000000l
I really should try this though. Never did like the cliffhanger ending in episode V.
On January 16 2013 01:41 crms wrote: I think this could be a fun weekend adventure, might even get my fiance to actually watch the new episodes, she refuses right now.
Mostly though this article just reminded me of the worst part of episode I, no not the pod racing (awful) or jarjar binks (dreadful) My worst moments were, Darth Maul. He was supposed to be so badass, a straight up killer, untouchable fighter and then he fell down a shaft...I've never recovered from the injustice that was Darth Mauls portrayl in Episode 1.
Haha you make his death sound even more lame than it was. He didn't just trip and fall into a shaft and die, he was bisected with a saber thrust he could've seen coming for several seconds.
Inb4 rewrite of Darth Maul tripping on an edge and falling down the shaft screaming, "Damn you kids!"
On January 16 2013 03:58 meadbert wrote: I totally agree with this post, although I do not advocate skipping episode 1.
451236 is the correct order.
can you give an actual purpose to watching ep1? there's nothing added to the series other than an abysmal and annoying frog thing and some races. I'd like to skip ep2 as well but there's actually some shit that goes on there.
On January 16 2013 01:54 Thallis wrote: Why would you ever subject yourself to the horror that was Episode 2? The best way to watch star wars is 4, 5, 6. There's no point to watching the prequels unless you want a plot that makes no sense at all, no defined main characters, shallow and emotionless romance, incredibly implausible chases, and worst of all, the destruction of Yoda and the Force.
Also Attack of the Clones is much, much worse than Phantom Menace.
Agreed, even if we get the backstory why Yoda is a reclusive in a svamp in Ep. IV, it does not outweight the awfulness that is Ep. I, II and III. If you haven't watched I, II and III, don't do it, they ruin the whole series.
My girlfriend through more than 7 years (who just broke up with me recently ) had never seen them... It took me ~6 years to convince her that they were actually worth watching.
We saw them I - VI though. She loved it... She pointed out how great the old trilogy actually was considering it's 30years old
On January 16 2013 03:58 meadbert wrote: I totally agree with this post, although I do not advocate skipping episode 1.
451236 is the correct order.
can you give an actual purpose to watching ep1? there's nothing added to the series other than an abysmal and annoying frog thing and some races. I'd like to skip ep2 as well but there's actually some shit that goes on there.
To be fair... It's not a totally worthless episode... You get to know Obi-Wan's relationship to Qui-Gon, Padmé and lil' boy Ani. You even get to experience him being all nifty and engineery and a born pilot... Plus the whole encounter and history between Padmé and Anakin is kindda what starts to fuck up everything later on
It would have been a lot easier if George Lucas had only been smart enough to edit Episode III a little better.
These are the only changes that needed to be made:
- Palpatine never refers to Anakin as Darth Vader, instead just calling him Anakin - after Anakin loses to Obi-Wan on the lava planet, the viewer is left to conclude that he dies of his wounds there - at the end of the movie, we are introduced to Darth Vader for the first time as a new character; Palpatine addresses him as his new apprentice
These changes wouldn't affect the viewing for most people, but for future generations who wish to watch the episodes in order, this would preserve the plot twist of Darth Vader = Luke's father.
On January 16 2013 03:58 meadbert wrote: I totally agree with this post, although I do not advocate skipping episode 1.
451236 is the correct order.
can you give an actual purpose to watching ep1? there's nothing added to the series other than an abysmal and annoying frog thing and some races. I'd like to skip ep2 as well but there's actually some shit that goes on there.
i agree with the original comment on ep1 resembling something more like an 'extended' universe piece. its true most of the movie stands by itself rather than directly affecting the rest of the movies. the only notable things that lead into the other films are anakin's love for his mother, obiwan's relationship with anakin, introduction into the split in the council.
as a movie itself its full of other great stories. its a good (not the "best") scifi romp.
imo there's no way you can recommend ep4 and turn around and lambaste ep1. in ep4 you are thrown into the storyline with zero understanding of any of the backplot. the "force" is never really explained aside from "its there" and "jedi use it". darth vader is barely characterized in the movie aside from being the bad guy with immense unexplained power. the entire movie is basically 2.5 acts, a short introduction of luke, the main storyling of rescuing leia, and then destroying the deathstar. nothing is ever truly explained. ep4 is just as garbage as ep1 if you want to define it on the grand scale of the star wars story. ep4 can be a good movie if you like explosions and lasers and all that jazz people in the 70s loved.
imo there's no way you can recommend ep4 and turn around and lambaste ep1. in ep4 you are thrown into the storyline with zero understanding of any of the backplot. the "force" is never really explained aside from "its there" and "jedi use it". darth vader is barely characterized in the movie aside from being the bad guy with immense unexplained power. the entire movie is basically 2.5 acts, a short introduction of luke, the main storyling of rescuing leila, and then destroying the deathstar. nothing is ever truly explained. ep4 is just as garbage as ep1 if you want to define it on the grand scale of the star wars story. ep4 can be a good movie if you like explosions and lasers and all that jazz people in the 70s loved.
That's how pretty much all "first" entries that introduce a larger universe are. By "first" I don't mean chronologically within the series but "first" as in the first one created by the author. Look at The Hobbit, for example. The ring is never really explained other than that it grants invisibility; all we know about Sauron (we don't even know his name) is that he's some shadowy necromancer type. Episode IV really works by itself as a stand-alone, and it worked pretty well as a jumping-off point for decades before the prequel trilogy was made.
On January 16 2013 04:37 Warlock40 wrote: It would have been a lot easier if George Lucas had only been smart enough to edit Episode III a little better.
These are the only changes that needed to be made:
- Palpatine never refers to Anakin as Darth Vader, instead just calling him Anakin - after Anakin loses to Obi-Wan on the lava planet, the viewer is left to conclude that he dies of his wounds there - at the end of the movie, we are introduced to Darth Vader for the first time as a new character; Palpatine addresses him as his new apprentice
These changes wouldn't affect the viewing for most people, but for future generations who wish to watch the episodes in order, this would preserve the plot twist of Darth Vader = Luke's father.
I really like those ideas and think it would be a really cool way to hype up the reveal in episode 6
On January 16 2013 04:41 Warlock40 wrote: That's how pretty much all "first" entries that introduce a larger universe are. By "first" I don't mean chronologically within the series but "first" as in the first one created by the author. Look at The Hobbit, for example. The ring is never really explained other than that it grants invisibility; all we know about Sauron (we don't even know his name) is that he's some shadowy necromancer type. Episode IV really works by itself as a stand-alone, and it worked pretty well as a jumping-off point for decades before the prequel trilogy was made.
tangent: In the Hobbit I don't even think it's revealed that the necromancer is Sauron, just something of great evil. It's been a while since I've read it so apologies if I'm wrong.
On January 16 2013 03:58 meadbert wrote: I totally agree with this post, although I do not advocate skipping episode 1.
451236 is the correct order.
can you give an actual purpose to watching ep1? there's nothing added to the series other than an abysmal and annoying frog thing and some races. I'd like to skip ep2 as well but there's actually some shit that goes on there.
On January 16 2013 03:58 meadbert wrote: I totally agree with this post, although I do not advocate skipping episode 1.
451236 is the correct order.
can you give an actual purpose to watching ep1? there's nothing added to the series other than an abysmal and annoying frog thing and some races. I'd like to skip ep2 as well but there's actually some shit that goes on there.
i agree with the original comment on ep1 resembling something more like an 'extended' universe piece. its true most of the movie stands by itself rather than directly affecting the rest of the movies. the only notable things that lead into the other films are anakin's love for his mother, obiwan's relationship with anakin, introduction into the split in the council.
as a movie itself its full of other great stories. its a good (not the "best") scifi romp.
imo there's no way you can recommend ep4 and turn around and lambaste ep1. in ep4 you are thrown into the storyline with zero understanding of any of the backplot. the "force" is never really explained aside from "its there" and "jedi use it". darth vader is barely characterized in the movie aside from being the bad guy with immense unexplained power. the entire movie is basically 2.5 acts, a short introduction of luke, the main storyling of rescuing leia, and then destroying the deathstar. nothing is ever truly explained. ep4 is just as garbage as ep1 if you want to define it on the grand scale of the star wars story. ep4 can be a good movie if you like explosions and lasers and all that jazz people in the 70s loved.
I was going to write something longer, but you're pretty clearly a troll and/or stupid.
The burden of proof is on you. Convince me that Ep 4 sucked, and we'll talk. Saying you have no idea what "in medias res" is and that you didn't understand it only hurts your case, considering that children have no trouble following the plot.
It just occurred to me now that I actually enjoyed these reviews more than the movies themselves. That's scary...
I've watched these reviews more than the movies themselves, but right now I REALLY want to watch Star wars episode II and III for some reason. The ship battle at the start of III is hella!!!
I think watching them in this order would be better if they were all of the same visual quality, but I think I'll try it. :D
1,2,3 are all bad tbh. And 6 is kind of meh. 4 and 5 are the golden ones and those 2 should be watched by everyone! the biggest problem with the new ones is that they are all cgi and it hurts the acting part too much. Also the villains are pretty lackluster ) and there's way too much talking and exposition.
Haters gonna hate in regards to Episode 1. I must be one of the few people who actually really enjoyed that movie. Sure, midichlorians are bullshit, Jar Jar is a moron, and there are numerous plot issues, but in the end the movie was extremely entertaining, and Duel of the Fates is the best song from the entire franchise IMO. The podracing and the final duel with Darth Maul are both some of the most memorable movie scenes for me. I may have nostalgia goggles on somewhat, but I honestly don't think the film deserves nearly as much hate as it gets. It does also help that Liam Neeson is one of my favorite actors.
On January 16 2013 05:25 HolyArrow wrote: Haters gonna hate in regards to Episode 1. I must be one of the few people who actually really enjoyed that movie. Sure, midichlorians are bullshit, Jar Jar is a moron, and there are numerous plot issues, but in the end the movie was extremely entertaining, and Duel of the Fates is the best song from the entire franchise IMO. The podracing and the final duel with Darth Maul are both some of the most memorable movie scenes for me. I may have nostalgia goggles on somewhat, but I honestly don't think the film deserves nearly as much hate as it gets. It does also help that Liam Neeson is one of my favorite actors.
Agreed for the most part! Although I do not find Jar Jar Binks that annoying. In any case, he is only 1/100th the annoyance of Gollum, who was in all three of the LotR movies, and a great deal in the second and third ones.
On January 16 2013 03:58 meadbert wrote: I totally agree with this post, although I do not advocate skipping episode 1.
451236 is the correct order.
can you give an actual purpose to watching ep1? there's nothing added to the series other than an abysmal and annoying frog thing and some races. I'd like to skip ep2 as well but there's actually some shit that goes on there.
i agree with the original comment on ep1 resembling something more like an 'extended' universe piece. its true most of the movie stands by itself rather than directly affecting the rest of the movies. the only notable things that lead into the other films are anakin's love for his mother, obiwan's relationship with anakin, introduction into the split in the council.
as a movie itself its full of other great stories. its a good (not the "best") scifi romp.
imo there's no way you can recommend ep4 and turn around and lambaste ep1. in ep4 you are thrown into the storyline with zero understanding of any of the backplot. the "force" is never really explained aside from "its there" and "jedi use it". darth vader is barely characterized in the movie aside from being the bad guy with immense unexplained power. the entire movie is basically 2.5 acts, a short introduction of luke, the main storyling of rescuing leia, and then destroying the deathstar. nothing is ever truly explained. ep4 is just as garbage as ep1 if you want to define it on the grand scale of the star wars story. ep4 can be a good movie if you like explosions and lasers and all that jazz people in the 70s loved.
Why do you need to know everything? I mean, do you like exposition in movies? "Show, don't tell" usually works better in sci-fi, especially in cases where the explanation would have to be super clever or it will completely fall on it's arse. Why do we need everything explained. There is no good way to explain the force. Yeah actually they tried to explain it by introducing metachlorians or whatever and that stuff was just stupid. I mean, really really silly . Also, ep4 was made with ep5 and ep6 in mind, so the movie wasn't ment to be a stand alone film as far as i'm concerned. It was 1 film in a trilogy. I think he(Lucas) wanted to make 9 movies in total, so 3 trilogies, and ep4 was just one film in one of the trilogies. However, ep4 is the only movie out of all starwars that can be seen without having to view anything else. It has a clear beginning and a clear ending. Yeah ofcourse not everything is explained but it doesn't have to be. If you look at Alien, yeah we don't really know the origin of that monster but do we really need to know? I don't think so, it works without it. Ofcourse now we got prometheus to explain it all but we didn't need a prequel at all.
And your last point is pretty funny, are you saying that today people don't like mindless explosions? Just look at what kind of money transformers make, and how many people go to see them. What about the quality of the movie though?
On January 16 2013 03:58 meadbert wrote: I totally agree with this post, although I do not advocate skipping episode 1.
451236 is the correct order.
can you give an actual purpose to watching ep1? there's nothing added to the series other than an abysmal and annoying frog thing and some races. I'd like to skip ep2 as well but there's actually some shit that goes on there.
i agree with the original comment on ep1 resembling something more like an 'extended' universe piece. its true most of the movie stands by itself rather than directly affecting the rest of the movies. the only notable things that lead into the other films are anakin's love for his mother, obiwan's relationship with anakin, introduction into the split in the council.
as a movie itself its full of other great stories. its a good (not the "best") scifi romp.
imo there's no way you can recommend ep4 and turn around and lambaste ep1. in ep4 you are thrown into the storyline with zero understanding of any of the backplot. the "force" is never really explained aside from "its there" and "jedi use it". darth vader is barely characterized in the movie aside from being the bad guy with immense unexplained power. the entire movie is basically 2.5 acts, a short introduction of luke, the main storyling of rescuing leia, and then destroying the deathstar. nothing is ever truly explained. ep4 is just as garbage as ep1 if you want to define it on the grand scale of the star wars story. ep4 can be a good movie if you like explosions and lasers and all that jazz people in the 70s loved.
I was going to write something longer, but you're pretty clearly a troll and/or stupid.
The burden of proof is on you. Convince me that Ep 4 sucked, and we'll talk. Saying you have no idea what "in medias res" is and that you didn't understand it only hurts your case, considering that children have no trouble following the plot.
the debate was about what ep1 adds to the universe and i said ep4 does no better job at that, if at all. in the grand scale of the star wars storyline, ep4 is nothing to be proud of. ep4 is just about this guy named luke skywalker and his particular adventures in rescuing a princess and blowing up the bad guy. hey, as movie by itself, its a pretty good scifi flick. but its not until ep5 that you are able to fully appreciate the star wars universe, when you are fully immersed into the backstory of the force, the characters (darth, luke, yoda, etc), and the rebellion/empire, etc.
and its just in the same way that ep1 revolves around anakin, the various people he meets and the adventures he goes through, even if it doesn't have much to do with the bigger picture we see in ep2/3.
hmmm this actually sounds really nice, it was such a long time i watched the trilogy but I think I am planning to watch the lord of rings trilogy instead because of the hobbit ---> 12 hours of movie time ftw :D
I'd gladly use a machete on anyone's DVD copy of 1-3.
What made the original three Star Wars good was not simply the lore, but the atmosphere. And when you start rendering that atmosphere in CGI, it's pretty much trashed IMO.
I actually like the idea. But we have to watch some of the parts of episode 1. Yes we will have to skip some parts of episode 1 (and 2 too, i would say the romance in there is even worse than twilight, but i haven't watched it to compare), but episode 1 did some stuff really well, the begining, Anakin's mood when leaving his mother behind, and of course, DUEL OF FATES (for me it's still the best saber fight ever in all the episodes).
What made the original three Star Wars good was not simply the lore, but the atmosphere. And when you start rendering that atmosphere in CGI, it's pretty much trashed IMO.
Well, i would say that the scripts have way more to do with that imho. But i have to agree somewhat on the CGI, watching the four alien movies was painful when i started watching alien 3 (somewhat decent, but some of the CGI are like...) and then the goat's abortion that is resurrection. Oh god why.
For those going to watch the movies again here is an interesting way to look at some of the characters in a new light. http://km-515.livejournal.com/746.html Not canon stuff? but a very well put together story.
and its just in the same way that ep1 revolves around anakin, the various people he meets and the adventures he goes through, even if it doesn't have much to do with the bigger picture we see in ep2/3.
Did you just compare ep.1 to A new hope ? I mean you're free to do so obv., but it's pretty pointless imo, like comparing apples to rotten oranges :p.
On January 16 2013 03:58 meadbert wrote: I totally agree with this post, although I do not advocate skipping episode 1.
451236 is the correct order.
can you give an actual purpose to watching ep1? there's nothing added to the series other than an abysmal and annoying frog thing and some races. I'd like to skip ep2 as well but there's actually some shit that goes on there.
i agree with the original comment on ep1 resembling something more like an 'extended' universe piece. its true most of the movie stands by itself rather than directly affecting the rest of the movies. the only notable things that lead into the other films are anakin's love for his mother, obiwan's relationship with anakin, introduction into the split in the council.
as a movie itself its full of other great stories. its a good (not the "best") scifi romp.
imo there's no way you can recommend ep4 and turn around and lambaste ep1. in ep4 you are thrown into the storyline with zero understanding of any of the backplot. the "force" is never really explained aside from "its there" and "jedi use it". darth vader is barely characterized in the movie aside from being the bad guy with immense unexplained power. the entire movie is basically 2.5 acts, a short introduction of luke, the main storyling of rescuing leia, and then destroying the deathstar. nothing is ever truly explained. ep4 is just as garbage as ep1 if you want to define it on the grand scale of the star wars story. ep4 can be a good movie if you like explosions and lasers and all that jazz people in the 70s loved.
I was going to write something longer, but you're pretty clearly a troll and/or stupid.
The burden of proof is on you. Convince me that Ep 4 sucked, and we'll talk. Saying you have no idea what "in medias res" is and that you didn't understand it only hurts your case, considering that children have no trouble following the plot.
the debate was about what ep1 adds to the universe and i said ep4 does no better job at that, if at all. in the grand scale of the star wars storyline, ep4 is nothing to be proud of. ep4 is just about this guy named luke skywalker and his particular adventures in rescuing a princess and blowing up the bad guy. hey, as movie by itself, its a pretty good scifi flick. but its not until ep5 that you are able to fully appreciate the star wars universe, when you are fully immersed into the backstory of the force, the characters (darth, luke, yoda, etc), and the rebellion/empire, etc.
and its just in the same way that ep1 revolves around anakin, the various people he meets and the adventures he goes through, even if it doesn't have much to do with the bigger picture we see in ep2/3.
In ep. 4 main characters have character arcs. Moreover, those character arcs are integral to the plot.
ex. Han Solo starts out as a two bit criminal looking out for himself. By the end of the movie he had developed relationships with Luke and Leia and leans to value things like self sacrifice and teamwork. Because of that arc the plot evolves very differently - Luke is not killed by Vader and destroys the Death Star.
Basic story telling elements like that are either non-existent or poorly written into the prequels.
And then there's the lazy film making - shot / reverse shot ftw... gotta drink that coffee... whatever's easiest... (see RLM review)
This is a very very chill prospect to watch. Well done. But I disagree that 1 adds nothing to the series. It's essential to the back story of Obi-Wan. It shows his struggles as a padawan with Qui-gon, and how he came to be Anakin's Master in 2. Also, Qui-Gons death, who probably should have been Anakins Master anyways, effects Obi-Wan and in turn changes how he handles Anakin, with a more stern hand.
On January 16 2013 07:05 theinfamousone wrote: Episode 1 is pretty boring, but the lightsaber fight is better than pretty much every fight scene in the rest of the series combined.
i love the vader vs luke in both 5 and 6 - especially towards the end of the last one where the music kicks in all sinister.
On January 16 2013 07:01 divito wrote: So if I ever bother to watch Star Wars (I haven't seen them), do many people agree with this order as sufficient?
It is sufficient and pretty interesting, I assume you are familiar with the general arc anyway?
Jar Jar Binks isn't any worse than the Ewoks. They literally serve the same purpose in both of their respective films. Midichlorian lore isn't necessarily bad either. Episode I also had the most impressively choreographed lightsaber fight in the entire franchise. But he's right that episode I is the least relevant of the films to the overarching story. He's also spot on about II and III improving and giving further context to VI.
On January 16 2013 07:10 ThomasjServo wrote: It is sufficient and pretty interesting, I assume you are familiar with the general arc anyway?
I've heard enough bits and pieces over the years to have the general idea, yes. Pop culture the way it is, and being of the geek/nerd variety, there are plenty of references, jokes and what not that I've heard and obviously gleaned plenty. Still haven't sat to down to watch any of them though.
On January 16 2013 07:10 GGTeMpLaR wrote: Jar Jar Binks isn't any worse than the Ewoks. They literally serve the same purpose in both of their respective films. Midichlorian lore isn't necessarily bad either. Episode I also had the most impressively choreographed lightsaber fight in the entire franchise. But he's right that episode I is the least relevant of the films to the overarching story. He's also spot on about II and III improving and giving further context to VI.
What purpose did Jar Jar Binks serve exactly? This is sorta an honest question as I only saw Episode 1-3 once each and never again.
On January 16 2013 06:56 the_business_og wrote: This is a very very chill prospect to watch. Well done. But I disagree that 1 adds nothing to the series. It's essential to the back story of Obi-Wan. It shows his struggles as a padawan with Qui-gon, and how he came to be Anakin's Master in 2. Also, Qui-Gons death, who probably should have been Anakins Master anyways, effects Obi-Wan and in turn changes how he handles Anakin, with a more stern hand.
It's not essential to Obi-Wan's story because by just watching first movie you know that him and darthvader know each other from the past. We don't need to know the exact details. Although, if we did get a good prequel movie about obi-wan, that would have been awesome, unfortunately ep1 is bad. As far as the fight goes, it was just too choreographed. Too scripted, there was no tension no pathos. Mainly because we don't care about the villain and the 2 jedi's are also not very interesting characters. We only care somewhat about Obiwan because we know him from the original trilogy.
the episode 4 is useful for the storyline I guess, but what a poor movie (acting and scenario wise). If you are not already a starwars fan, very difficult to appreciate imho...
On January 16 2013 06:56 the_business_og wrote: This is a very very chill prospect to watch. Well done. But I disagree that 1 adds nothing to the series. It's essential to the back story of Obi-Wan. It shows his struggles as a padawan with Qui-gon, and how he came to be Anakin's Master in 2. Also, Qui-Gons death, who probably should have been Anakins Master anyways, effects Obi-Wan and in turn changes how he handles Anakin, with a more stern hand.
As far as the fight goes, it was just too choreographed. Too scripted, there was no tension no pathos. Mainly because we don't care about the villain and the 2 jedi's are also not very interesting characters. We only care somewhat about Obiwan because we know him from the original trilogy.
Have you considered that's more a subjective opinion ? I didn't care about anakin or jarjar character, but sure as hell i didn't want to see Liam Neeson to die that way, and sure as hell i thought darth maul was a badass , and the combat... man the light saber combats on episode 4-6 are not even close to the hype level. There are great parts, but not the fight themselves, but script, dialogue or background.
And i am one of those guys who saw episode 4-6 on VHS like 4-5 times a year for his infancy and part of ,my adolescence. And to be honest, episode 4 is quite weak as well when we are talking about poor character development.
On January 16 2013 07:10 GGTeMpLaR wrote: Jar Jar Binks isn't any worse than the Ewoks. They literally serve the same purpose in both of their respective films. Midichlorian lore isn't necessarily bad either. Episode I also had the most impressively choreographed lightsaber fight in the entire franchise. But he's right that episode I is the least relevant of the films to the overarching story. He's also spot on about II and III improving and giving further context to VI.
What purpose did Jar Jar Binks serve exactly? This is sorta an honest question as I only saw Episode 1-3 once each and never again.
He was pretty much THE reason Queen Almadahla(?) was able to maintain control of Nabuu. He appealed to the Gungans to aid the surface world against the Trade Federation and their droid army, occupying its attention and allowing the queen to take the palace back.
I don't know about this belief with Episode I being irrelevant. It laid the groundwork for how the Emperor began his claim to power.
On January 16 2013 03:58 meadbert wrote: I totally agree with this post, although I do not advocate skipping episode 1.
451236 is the correct order.
can you give an actual purpose to watching ep1? there's nothing added to the series other than an abysmal and annoying frog thing and some races. I'd like to skip ep2 as well but there's actually some shit that goes on there.
i agree with the original comment on ep1 resembling something more like an 'extended' universe piece. its true most of the movie stands by itself rather than directly affecting the rest of the movies. the only notable things that lead into the other films are anakin's love for his mother, obiwan's relationship with anakin, introduction into the split in the council.
as a movie itself its full of other great stories. its a good (not the "best") scifi romp.
imo there's no way you can recommend ep4 and turn around and lambaste ep1. in ep4 you are thrown into the storyline with zero understanding of any of the backplot. the "force" is never really explained aside from "its there" and "jedi use it". darth vader is barely characterized in the movie aside from being the bad guy with immense unexplained power. the entire movie is basically 2.5 acts, a short introduction of luke, the main storyling of rescuing leia, and then destroying the deathstar. nothing is ever truly explained. ep4 is just as garbage as ep1 if you want to define it on the grand scale of the star wars story. ep4 can be a good movie if you like explosions and lasers and all that jazz people in the 70s loved.
I was going to write something longer, but you're pretty clearly a troll and/or stupid.
The burden of proof is on you. Convince me that Ep 4 sucked, and we'll talk. Saying you have no idea what "in medias res" is and that you didn't understand it only hurts your case, considering that children have no trouble following the plot.
the debate was about what ep1 adds to the universe and i said ep4 does no better job at that, if at all. in the grand scale of the star wars storyline, ep4 is nothing to be proud of. ep4 is just about this guy named luke skywalker and his particular adventures in rescuing a princess and blowing up the bad guy. hey, as movie by itself, its a pretty good scifi flick. but its not until ep5 that you are able to fully appreciate the star wars universe, when you are fully immersed into the backstory of the force, the characters (darth, luke, yoda, etc), and the rebellion/empire, etc.
and its just in the same way that ep1 revolves around anakin, the various people he meets and the adventures he goes through, even if it doesn't have much to do with the bigger picture we see in ep2/3.
If you say that ep1 revolves around Anakin it's probably been a while since you've seen it. He doesn't show up untill halfway through the movie, and he doesn't have anything to do with the main storyline of the movie (the trade federation vs naboo). The writers have forced him into the movie by having him randomly blow up an entire space station on accident, barely knowing how and certainly not knowing why. >_< Haven't seen a plot cop-out like that since, well, never!
On January 16 2013 07:10 GGTeMpLaR wrote: Jar Jar Binks isn't any worse than the Ewoks. They literally serve the same purpose in both of their respective films. Midichlorian lore isn't necessarily bad either. Episode I also had the most impressively choreographed lightsaber fight in the entire franchise. But he's right that episode I is the least relevant of the films to the overarching story. He's also spot on about II and III improving and giving further context to VI.
What purpose did Jar Jar Binks serve exactly? This is sorta an honest question as I only saw Episode 1-3 once each and never again.
Cheesy, shallow "entertainment" that only a young child could appreciate.
On January 16 2013 06:56 the_business_og wrote: This is a very very chill prospect to watch. Well done. But I disagree that 1 adds nothing to the series. It's essential to the back story of Obi-Wan. It shows his struggles as a padawan with Qui-gon, and how he came to be Anakin's Master in 2. Also, Qui-Gons death, who probably should have been Anakins Master anyways, effects Obi-Wan and in turn changes how he handles Anakin, with a more stern hand.
As far as the fight goes, it was just too choreographed. Too scripted, there was no tension no pathos. Mainly because we don't care about the villain and the 2 jedi's are also not very interesting characters. We only care somewhat about Obiwan because we know him from the original trilogy.
Have you considered that's more a subjective opinion ? I didn't care about anakin or jarjar character, but sure as hell i didn't want to see Liam Neeson to die that way, and sure as hell i thought darth maul was a badass , and the combat... man the light saber combats on episode 4-6 are not even close to the hype level. There are great parts, but not the fight themselves, but script, dialogue or background.
And i am one of those guys who saw episode 4-6 on VHS like 4-5 times a year for his infancy and part of ,my adolescence. And to be honest, episode 4 is quite weak as well when we are talking about poor character development.
hype level? I'm not sure what hype has to do with it. Starwars is not a kung-fu movie, those usually have weak story but cool fights. That's not what starwars is, it's a space opera not some lightsaber dance-off lol. I'm not saying that choreography of the fight is bad. But it's emotionless. You don't feel invested at all.
ep4 has 2 character arcs, Luke's and Han's. Darth Vader is not really developted a lot but he is in the movie for a good portion and he clearly displays his evil nature. He has certain motivation to do his evil deeds and he has the emperor who's a level above him as far as villains go. The story is also pretty simple and the characters fit well into it.
In ep1 the story is convoluted to the point where it makes no god damn sense. Character's constantly make stupid decisions and some characters don't even act as they are supposed to. A good example here is Qui-gon Jin or whatever Liam Neeson's character is called. He abuses his mind trick ability at least 3 times for his personal benefit, but that's totally against what the jedi stand for. And basicly, the only question that matters here. Who's the main character in the movie? And can you even describe this character without telling me any physical details about him or her? Like queen amidala, she's .... monotone and dresses weirdly. Quigon jin? Yeah, he has a beard and supposedly he is wise? So, you can tell me that ep4 has little character development but then ep1 has no real characters at all, there are just a bunch of guys who look bored most of the time because they have to act with green screen.
On January 16 2013 01:54 Thallis wrote: Why would you ever subject yourself to the horror that was Episode 2? The best way to watch star wars is 4, 5, 6. There's no point to watching the prequels unless you want a plot that makes no sense at all, no defined main characters, shallow and emotionless romance, incredibly implausible chases, and worst of all, the destruction of Yoda and the Force.
Also Attack of the Clones is much, much worse than Phantom Menace.
Only watching 4, 5, 6 is of course a very valid approach. The idea behind the Machete order (which I kinda failed to point out in the OP) is that the author tried to combine the old and the new triology in the best possible way. Of course, if you do not like the new movies at all, then the Machete order won't help you there and you better just stick to the old movies.
On January 16 2013 07:10 GGTeMpLaR wrote: Jar Jar Binks isn't any worse than the Ewoks. They literally serve the same purpose in both of their respective films. Midichlorian lore isn't necessarily bad either. Episode I also had the most impressively choreographed lightsaber fight in the entire franchise. But he's right that episode I is the least relevant of the films to the overarching story. He's also spot on about II and III improving and giving further context to VI.
What purpose did Jar Jar Binks serve exactly? This is sorta an honest question as I only saw Episode 1-3 once each and never again.
He was pretty much THE reason Queen Almadahla(?) was able to maintain control of Nabuu. He appealed to the Gungans to aid the surface world against the Trade Federation and their droid army, occupying its attention and allowing the queen to take the palace back.
I don't know about this belief with Episode I being irrelevant. It laid the groundwork for how the Emperor began his claim to power.
The story idea of episode one is nice, and you might even be right with your last paragraph. But the point is if someone does not see Episode one and only the other five movies, he will still understand the whole story, as nothing that happens in Episode 1 is actually referenced in the later movies in a relevant way. If you leave Episode 2 away and keep 3 in, Episode 3 will not make sense because it references the second move repeatedly.
On January 16 2013 02:22 Sea_Food wrote: Here is a better guide.
Only watch episode 3. Episode 3 is a good movie. All the other ones are super terrible. (exept 2 which is just terrible)
Can you explain why you do not like the old trilogy? I'm genuinely interested.
On January 16 2013 06:56 the_business_og wrote: This is a very very chill prospect to watch. Well done. But I disagree that 1 adds nothing to the series. It's essential to the back story of Obi-Wan. It shows his struggles as a padawan with Qui-gon, and how he came to be Anakin's Master in 2. Also, Qui-Gons death, who probably should have been Anakins Master anyways, effects Obi-Wan and in turn changes how he handles Anakin, with a more stern hand.
As far as the fight goes, it was just too choreographed. Too scripted, there was no tension no pathos. Mainly because we don't care about the villain and the 2 jedi's are also not very interesting characters. We only care somewhat about Obiwan because we know him from the original trilogy.
Have you considered that's more a subjective opinion ? I didn't care about anakin or jarjar character, but sure as hell i didn't want to see Liam Neeson to die that way, and sure as hell i thought darth maul was a badass , and the combat... man the light saber combats on episode 4-6 are not even close to the hype level. There are great parts, but not the fight themselves, but script, dialogue or background.
And i am one of those guys who saw episode 4-6 on VHS like 4-5 times a year for his infancy and part of ,my adolescence. And to be honest, episode 4 is quite weak as well when we are talking about poor character development.
hype level? I'm not sure what hype has to do with it. Starwars is not a kung-fu movie, those usually have weak story but cool fights. That's not what starwars is, it's a space opera not some lightsaber dance-off lol. I'm not saying that choreography of the fight is bad. But it's emotionless. You don't feel invested at all.
Because you say so.
In ep1 the story is convoluted to the point where it makes no god damn sense. Character's constantly make stupid decisions and some characters don't even act as they are supposed to. A good example here is Qui-gon Jin or whatever Liam Neeson's character is called. He abuses his mind trick ability at least 3 times for his personal benefit, but that's totally against what the jedi stand for. And basicly, the only question that matters here. Who's the main character in the movie? And can you even describe this character without telling me any physical details about him or her? Like queen amidala, she's .... monotone and dresses weirdly. Quigon jin? Yeah, he has a beard and supposedly he is wise?
What you are saying here just doesn't make any sense at all. Specially the Qui-Gonn Jin "doing whatever he wants and breaking the jedi code for self benefit", which is entirely wrong. He was rebellious against many of the jedi council decisions, and that's how he is portrayed. But for self interested ? Nope. + Show Spoiler +
""Do not defy the Council, Master, not again." "I shall do what I must, Obi-Wan.""
Of course the movie has poor character development, but you are using double standards for both episodes. If you want to compare to something that really makes it look silly, episode 5 all the way.
For me it's pretty clear that the best movie of the two trilogies is episode 5. Then 4 and 3 follow, being decent movie with different qualities. 1-2-6 are pretty bad. Just watch 4-5-3, or fuck, even just 5, the only really good movie in the serie. I'll never understand people bashing 3 and saving 6 though.
On January 16 2013 08:35 corumjhaelen wrote: For me it's pretty clear that the best movie of the two trilogies is episode 5. Then 4 and 3 follow, being decent movie with different qualities. 1-2-6 are pretty bad. Just watch 4-5-3, or fuck, even just 5, the only really good movie in the serie. I'll never understand people bashing 3 and saving 6 though.
but watching 4-5-3 does not really make sense story wise. you are left with a cliffhanger after 5 that never gets resolved. Also 3 as the only of the new movies is kinda confusing, as none of the characters are introduced.
On January 16 2013 06:56 the_business_og wrote: This is a very very chill prospect to watch. Well done. But I disagree that 1 adds nothing to the series. It's essential to the back story of Obi-Wan. It shows his struggles as a padawan with Qui-gon, and how he came to be Anakin's Master in 2. Also, Qui-Gons death, who probably should have been Anakins Master anyways, effects Obi-Wan and in turn changes how he handles Anakin, with a more stern hand.
As far as the fight goes, it was just too choreographed. Too scripted, there was no tension no pathos. Mainly because we don't care about the villain and the 2 jedi's are also not very interesting characters. We only care somewhat about Obiwan because we know him from the original trilogy.
Have you considered that's more a subjective opinion ? I didn't care about anakin or jarjar character, but sure as hell i didn't want to see Liam Neeson to die that way, and sure as hell i thought darth maul was a badass , and the combat... man the light saber combats on episode 4-6 are not even close to the hype level. There are great parts, but not the fight themselves, but script, dialogue or background.
And i am one of those guys who saw episode 4-6 on VHS like 4-5 times a year for his infancy and part of ,my adolescence. And to be honest, episode 4 is quite weak as well when we are talking about poor character development.
hype level? I'm not sure what hype has to do with it. Starwars is not a kung-fu movie, those usually have weak story but cool fights. That's not what starwars is, it's a space opera not some lightsaber dance-off lol. I'm not saying that choreography of the fight is bad. But it's emotionless. You don't feel invested at all.
In ep1 the story is convoluted to the point where it makes no god damn sense. Character's constantly make stupid decisions and some characters don't even act as they are supposed to. A good example here is Qui-gon Jin or whatever Liam Neeson's character is called. He abuses his mind trick ability at least 3 times for his personal benefit, but that's totally against what the jedi stand for. And basicly, the only question that matters here. Who's the main character in the movie? And can you even describe this character without telling me any physical details about him or her? Like queen amidala, she's .... monotone and dresses weirdly. Quigon jin? Yeah, he has a beard and supposedly he is wise?
What you are saying here just doesn't make any sense at all. Specially the Qui-Gonn Jin "doing whatever he wants and breaking the jedi code for self benefit", which is entirely wrong. He was rebellious against many of the jedi council decisions, and that's how he is portrayed. But for self interested ? Nope. + Show Spoiler +
""Do not defy the Council, Master, not again." "I shall do what I must, Obi-Wan.""
Of course the movie has poor character development, but you are using double standards for both episodes. If you want to compare to something that really makes it look silly, episode 5 all the way.
No, the fight with that red guy at the end of ep1 is not emotionless because I say so, but because it is. Again, no investment in the characters. Cool fight but not at all captivating. Again, lack of interest in either the villain or the jedi's. And who's the villain again, some random guy who barely speaks a word in the movie? Does nothing evil if I remember correctly and just wants to fight the 2 jedi at the end. It's hilarious how for some inexplicable reason the fight even happens when the 2 jedi and a bunch of soldiers stumble up-on the red evil guy. And yet they decide not to shoot him right then and there and just wanna fight him. And then one of the jedi dies. Yeah, wow. Great fight lol. And even after quigon's death, do you really care? In ep4 we see obi-wan trying to teach luke a few things, develop some kind of relationship, so when he dies there is at least some reason for Luke and the viewers to feel bad about it. There is none of it in ep1
And quigon again. He uses his tricks to win that dice roll to get the parts for his ship. Yeah well, that's not exactly morally correct for a jedi but why even bother doing this? Why not just steal the parts if you're not going to bother with being honest about it. And there are a few more times where he just uses jedi tricks for his gain. And the quote you bring up, well that sounds awfully villain-ish for the guy who's supposed to be one of the main good guys, don't you think? He goes against all reason to train this young kid, while repeatedly being told by yoda that the kid is not a good candidate to become a jedi. There is no reason for this kid to even be in the movie. They randomly meet him when trying to fix their space ship. Just a load of bullshit.
Anyway, I'm done with this. I don't wanna spend all day arguing. You like what you like, it's all good.
On January 16 2013 01:54 Thallis wrote: Why would you ever subject yourself to the horror that was Episode 2? The best way to watch star wars is 4, 5, 6. There's no point to watching the prequels unless you want a plot that makes no sense at all, no defined main characters, shallow and emotionless romance, incredibly implausible chases, and worst of all, the destruction of Yoda and the Force.
Also Attack of the Clones is much, much worse than Phantom Menace.
Only watching 4, 5, 6 is of course a very valid approach. The idea behind the Machete order (which I kinda failed to point out in the OP) is that the author tried to combine the old and the new triology in the best possible way. Of course, if you do not like the new movies at all, then the Machete order won't help you there and you better just stick to the old movies.
On January 16 2013 07:10 GGTeMpLaR wrote: Jar Jar Binks isn't any worse than the Ewoks. They literally serve the same purpose in both of their respective films. Midichlorian lore isn't necessarily bad either. Episode I also had the most impressively choreographed lightsaber fight in the entire franchise. But he's right that episode I is the least relevant of the films to the overarching story. He's also spot on about II and III improving and giving further context to VI.
What purpose did Jar Jar Binks serve exactly? This is sorta an honest question as I only saw Episode 1-3 once each and never again.
He was pretty much THE reason Queen Almadahla(?) was able to maintain control of Nabuu. He appealed to the Gungans to aid the surface world against the Trade Federation and their droid army, occupying its attention and allowing the queen to take the palace back.
I don't know about this belief with Episode I being irrelevant. It laid the groundwork for how the Emperor began his claim to power.
The story idea of episode one is nice, and you might even be right with your last paragraph. But the point is if someone does not see Episode one and only the other five movies, he will still understand the whole story, as nothing that happens in Episode 1 is actually referenced in the later movies in a relevant way. If you leave Episode 2 away and keep 3 in, Episode 3 will not make sense because it references the second move repeatedly.
On January 16 2013 02:22 Sea_Food wrote: Here is a better guide.
Only watch episode 3. Episode 3 is a good movie. All the other ones are super terrible. (exept 2 which is just terrible)
Can you explain why you do not like the old trilogy? I'm genuinely interested.
I honestly think episode 3 by itself would make sense. Most of the important details are failry easily understood; they are at war, Anakin is in love with Padme, and the emporer is evil and controls the senate. There are some references that arent well understood but its not central to the plot and a first time viewer is probably better off watching as little of episode 2 as possible.
On January 16 2013 01:47 Diabulus wrote: Oo how can you say Episode 1 is a bad movie? Anything made by George Lucas, even a porno, would be 10 stars/ 10 from me -.-
Because fuck Jar Jar Binks.
I was not sure about the OP until I saw your quote. So fucking true. Now i'm committed to trying the Machete order.
This is off topic, but has anyone else noticed that Luke Skywalker has more Sith and less Jedi in him than his father?
So Anakin feels terrible after killing the Sand People, but that is like one village.
Meanwhile Luke destroys an entire Death Star while losing his whole team (other than Wedge) in episode 4 and shrugs it off.
In Return of the Jedi, he leaves no one alive when rescuing Hahn Solo from Jabba the Hut. "Grab the gun. Point it at the deck." ... REALLY?!?! The resistance was about done. Did he really need to finish off everyone there? Anakin was retaliating for killing his mother, but in Luke's case Hahn was not even killed.
It seems Luke takes no prisoners and leaves no one alive and does so without second guessing.
EDIT: I bring this up because my daughter kept asking why he blew up the whole Skiff after rescuing Hahn.
Side Story: When she watched A New Hope, my daughter basically treated the whole movie like a Disney princess movie about rescuing a Princess. It all made sense to her until the final awards ceremony scene when she asked: "Daddy? Why is Luke Skywalker marrying Hahn Solo and not Princess Leia?"
On January 16 2013 08:35 corumjhaelen wrote: I'll never understand people bashing 3 and saving 6 though.
How about 6 contains some of the most memorable scenes in movie history, while 3 has some of the most laughable scenes in movie history ?
I actually think 3-5 are the best 3 movies. Why oh why did teddy bears need to bring down the empire? Return of the Jedi had some great parts. The speeder bikes were very well done. The special affects for the space battle scenes were totally by far the best ever at that time. Luke, Vader and the Emperor together was worth watching. It has a lot going for it and the special effects by themselves were amazing enough at the time to convince me it was the greatest movie I had ever seen when I walked out of the theater, but I was only 5 at the time and the "Teddy Bear" factor has become more annoying as I age.
On January 16 2013 08:35 corumjhaelen wrote: I'll never understand people bashing 3 and saving 6 though.
How about 6 contains some of the most memorable scenes in movie history, while 3 has some of the most laughable scenes in movie history ?
I'd like to know what memorable scenes 6 contains. It's only redeeming quality is the space battle, for the rest, the construction is simplist, then tension between Luke/Vador and The Emperor artifical, the directing subpar, the ewoks cringeworthy... For all its problems (the Anakin/Amidala relationship) 3 has a much more interesting storyand two excellent, albeit a bit long fight scenes.
On January 16 2013 08:35 corumjhaelen wrote: I'll never understand people bashing 3 and saving 6 though.
How about 6 contains some of the most memorable scenes in movie history, while 3 has some of the most laughable scenes in movie history ?
I actually think 3-5 are the best 3 movies. Why oh why did teddy bears need to bring down the empire? Return of the Jedi had some great parts. The speeder bikes were very well done. The special affects for the space battle scenes were totally by far the best ever at that time. Luke, Vader and the Emperor together was worth watching. It has a lot going for it and the special effects by themselves were amazing enough at the time to convince me it was the greatest movie I had ever seen when I walked out of the theater, but I was only 5 at the time and the "Teddy Bear" factor has become more annoying as I age.
On January 16 2013 08:35 corumjhaelen wrote: I'll never understand people bashing 3 and saving 6 though.
How about 6 contains some of the most memorable scenes in movie history, while 3 has some of the most laughable scenes in movie history ?
I'd like to know what memorable scenes 6 contains. It's only redeeming quality is the space battle, for the rest, the construction is simplist, then tension between Luke/Vador and The Emperor artifical, the directing subpar, the ewoks cringeworthy... For all its problems (the Anakin/Amidala relationship) 3 has a much more interesting storyand two excellent, albeit a bit long fight scenes.
Why is the Emperor artificial? He was the single highlight of that film.
The fight scenes in 1-3 are silly and overblown in my opinion. There's too many acrobatics and they go on for far too long. 1-3 are actually not very good films at all once you take them out of the Star Wars context. The acting is poor and the plot meanders pretty horribly. Considering the entirety of the film franchise ends up being primarily based around Anakin/Darth Vader, they didn't half cock things up with the poor quality of 1-3.
4 and 5 are definitely the best films of the lot. 6 isn't bad: it's not as consistent the whole way through like 4 and 5 but there are some cool scenes.
There's like 30min of useless Ewoks in the 6th movie. It's very hard to watch it seriously in 2013. 30 years is a long time, so it's not surprising. But 5 got old prettier.
On January 17 2013 02:21 Noocta wrote: There's like 30min of useless Ewoks in the 6th movie. It's very hard to watch it seriously in 2013. 30 years is a long time, so it's not surprising. But 5 got old prettier.
There were at least 30 minutes of useless C3P0/R2D2 footage at the beginning of A New Hope. They were supposed to be the avatars of the audience, but the inevitable shift of narrative focus away from them meant a loss of dramatic unity.
Both ANH and ROTJ had problems with pacing and structure. The question of which was the better film depends on if you prefer ROTJ's cleaner production values and gothic themes or ANH's more faithful rendition of classical archetypes in its plot and characters.
On January 16 2013 08:35 corumjhaelen wrote: I'll never understand people bashing 3 and saving 6 though.
How about 6 contains some of the most memorable scenes in movie history, while 3 has some of the most laughable scenes in movie history ?
I'd like to know what memorable scenes 6 contains. It's only redeeming quality is the space battle, for the rest, the construction is simplist, then tension between Luke/Vador and The Emperor artifical, the directing subpar, the ewoks cringeworthy... For all its problems (the Anakin/Amidala relationship) 3 has a much more interesting storyand two excellent, albeit a bit long fight scenes.
Why is the Emperor artificial? He was the single highlight of that film.
Not the Emperor, the dramatic tension between the three characters. Those scene feel extremely long for little dramatic impact and are extremely predictable. I'd agree the actor is pretty fun though.
I actually just had a chance to marathon Star Wars and did that in the Machete order. I was aware of the story, but never seen all of the movies, especially older ones. So I sat down... watched the whole thing... loved it!
1) I'm going to get my friend to watch them in this order (she's completely new to Star Wars) and see if the article's correct. It will be interesting to see the plot twists in both the original and the prequels play out thru the machete order, and how it affects her.
Also I have this to add.
2) A while back I came across (and subsequently watched) a fan edit of A New Hope by Adywan. It was an amazing experience, like a Special Edition that didn't have any controversial edits - or at least had different versions with or without those edits (for example, the Episode III dueling music playing during the duel between Darth Vader and Obi-Wan).
He's doing the rest of the series including the prequels, and says that he will make them in such a way that he will preserve the plot twist until Episode V if the series was to be watched in order. Perhaps leaving open the possibility that Anakin died on Mustafar. And stuff like leaving out Anakin's building of C-3P0, introducing new actors to patch holes, etc.
My point being that in the far distant future when Adywan finishes all six movies, will the Machete Order finally be redundant?
EPT
I think there are many younger people outside the geeky/nerdy scene who do not have the same connection to the movies as we do. 
) had never seen them... It took me ~6 years to convince her that they were actually worth watching.![[image loading]](http://cdn.ksk.uproxx.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/PrepareYourAnus.jpg)
