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On December 20 2015 11:15 tofucake wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Ren wasn't a Sith apprentice, nor was he fully trained. It was made pretty clear that he turned before completing his apprenticeship as a Jedi and caused Luke to lose faith in himself. It explains why Ren's lightsaber is so janky: he didn't use natural crystals like Jedi, and he didn't have a Sith master to teach him how to make the artificial crystals Sith use (Snoke isn't a Sith, nor a Jedi, though it's ambiguous whether or not he's Force sensitive). Ren essentially winged the whole lightsaber issue, and he's not fully trained in the Force either. There were no other Jedi, aside from Luke, as far as I understood it the fact was that Ren was the only apprentice and his turning caused Luke to give up on training others.
+ Show Spoiler +
I think there were other apprentices. In Rey's flashback there was a guy who looked like he was drawing a lightsaber right before Ren killed him. I think that Luke was training a few but Ren killed all the rest.
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Hyrule19200 Posts
On December 20 2015 12:35 Manit0u wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2015 11:15 tofucake wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Ren wasn't a Sith apprentice, nor was he fully trained. It was made pretty clear that he turned before completing his apprenticeship as a Jedi and caused Luke to lose faith in himself. It explains why Ren's lightsaber is so janky: he didn't use natural crystals like Jedi, and he didn't have a Sith master to teach him how to make the artificial crystals Sith use (Snoke isn't a Sith, nor a Jedi, though it's ambiguous whether or not he's Force sensitive). Ren essentially winged the whole lightsaber issue, and he's not fully trained in the Force either. There were no other Jedi, aside from Luke, as far as I understood it the fact was that Ren was the only apprentice and his turning caused Luke to give up on training others. + Show Spoiler +
Note however, that Kylo was winning the duel pretty handily until Rey got the lightsaber combat knowledge from his mind. I assume that's what happened since at the time all Rey knew about the Force was from Kylo - the mind reading, which she later turned into mindtrick, she also only used force pull when Kylo did.
+ Show Spoiler +I want to believe that Rey and Ren are based off the EU's Jacen and Jaina, though I'm finding it hard to believe Leia would forget she had a daughter. Ren was also fighting with a bowcaster shot to the ribs, which is kind of crazy. I can't wait to see him fighting full form. If he hadn't been injured I'm pretty sure he would have lopped Rey's head off pretty quickly.
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On December 20 2015 21:41 tofucake wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2015 12:35 Manit0u wrote:On December 20 2015 11:15 tofucake wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Ren wasn't a Sith apprentice, nor was he fully trained. It was made pretty clear that he turned before completing his apprenticeship as a Jedi and caused Luke to lose faith in himself. It explains why Ren's lightsaber is so janky: he didn't use natural crystals like Jedi, and he didn't have a Sith master to teach him how to make the artificial crystals Sith use (Snoke isn't a Sith, nor a Jedi, though it's ambiguous whether or not he's Force sensitive). Ren essentially winged the whole lightsaber issue, and he's not fully trained in the Force either. There were no other Jedi, aside from Luke, as far as I understood it the fact was that Ren was the only apprentice and his turning caused Luke to give up on training others. + Show Spoiler +
Note however, that Kylo was winning the duel pretty handily until Rey got the lightsaber combat knowledge from his mind. I assume that's what happened since at the time all Rey knew about the Force was from Kylo - the mind reading, which she later turned into mindtrick, she also only used force pull when Kylo did.
+ Show Spoiler +I want to believe that Rey and Ren are based off the EU's Jacen and Jaina, though I'm finding it hard to believe Leia would forget she had a daughter. Ren was also fighting with a bowcaster shot to the ribs, which is kind of crazy. I can't wait to see him fighting full form. If he hadn't been injured I'm pretty sure he would have lopped Rey's head off pretty quickly.
+ Show Spoiler +
Not just bowcaster to the ribs. Remember that also Finn caught his right arm with a lightsaber. Ren is an awesome character, definitely strong in the force (stopping blaster shots mid-air is dope as fuck). I also loved when he got angry and started bashing things with his saber.
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I enjoyed the movie except for a few things that varied too much from the previous ways of Star Wars movies. These are all just my opinion, I am no expert and only know the lore of the movies.
+ Show Spoiler +
1)
"Traveling through hyperspace ain't like dusting crops, boy! Without precise calculations we could fly right through a star, or bounce too close to a supernova and that'd end your trip real quick, wouldn't it. "
An established problem of Star Wars and key issue that stopped people bouncing around constantly was the fact that you can't jump into FTL without making calculations, while in hanger bays, etc. Now apparently anytime anyone is in trouble they can just hit the button and they are safe, why ever fight! This was such a key and constant problem in the originals it is weird that it was ignored now. BSG, Firefly, Star Wars etc all create self-imposed laws to stop people teleporting away all the time and allow for conflict.
2)
TIE fighters can't jump to lightspeed, of course you are going down to the planet, you can't go anywhere else.
3)
As others have mentioned it was a big part of the previous movies that using the force took years of training before Luke, Anakin or anyone can use the force. It took 3 movies before people became trained in the force but now the mind trick was learnt in seconds. And MiniVader had rapidly changing power levels from being able to hold someone completely still, catch a blaster shot or throw them away with his mind - to being as good at sabre fighting as a concussed girl holding a sword for the first time ever.
4)
Yet another deathstar? With a weak point that leads to catastrophic destruction? That needs some shields taken down? Not getting lazy are we in the writing department?
5)
Lukes map fragment thing, not sure what that was about, especially when the map it fit into seemed to just be a map of "The Galaxy".
6)
Han's intro and following scenes were too cheesy, with the weird aliens and bounty hunters after him.
I did enjoy the movie, 9/10 as entertainment, just those minor qualms. Movies seem to have changing power levels all the time now, so that seems to be the go to thing for writers now. Better than the prequels, not quite the originals imo.
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Watched the movie yesterday evening, this are my thoughts on it )a lot of people will probably have the same complaints/praises i have but i was to lazy to read through this entire thread :p)
+ Show Spoiler +I thought it was a good movie. Not bad/terrible but not great/amazing either. Like a 7/10 or 8/10. I was entertained even though the movie barely escaped disaster at some points.
The +:
-I liked Ray and Han/Chewie, acting was good
-Special effects and visuals were amazing
-Huge nostalgia feels when i saw the X-Wings/T-fighters, stayed true to the original with small improvements
-Georg Lucas was not involved to bloat this movie with CGI
-The jokes are almost all funny and appropiate
The -:
The movie is basically "A new hope" 2.0 with improved special effects
I disliked Finn and every villain
Movie felt rushed at certain points
I am willing to give them a pass for remaking "A new Hope" for now because the movie works, however i don't want the other 2 movies to copy "Empire strikes back" and "Return of the jedi". I felt he set up the new movies nicely but now they have to do something new. I actually liked how they used the old characters to set the new ones up and i don't mind Han dieing (for a second i thought Ren would sourrender to Han and i was about to leave the cinema, thank god that didnt happen). Villains are very weak in my eyes.
I am glad i watched a non-spoiler video "What happened between Episode 6 and 7" before watching the movie because NOTHING is explained why there are suddenly weak Rebels/strong Empire again.
As i said, i liked it and i am looking forward to the next one but i expect something new in Episode 8.
Edit: i should say i could easily give this an 8/10, i think i'll have to watch it again to be sure. Thinking about it again, a 7/10 would probably not dp justice conaidering how many aweful other movies exist
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On December 20 2015 21:41 tofucake wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2015 12:35 Manit0u wrote:On December 20 2015 11:15 tofucake wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Ren wasn't a Sith apprentice, nor was he fully trained. It was made pretty clear that he turned before completing his apprenticeship as a Jedi and caused Luke to lose faith in himself. It explains why Ren's lightsaber is so janky: he didn't use natural crystals like Jedi, and he didn't have a Sith master to teach him how to make the artificial crystals Sith use (Snoke isn't a Sith, nor a Jedi, though it's ambiguous whether or not he's Force sensitive). Ren essentially winged the whole lightsaber issue, and he's not fully trained in the Force either. There were no other Jedi, aside from Luke, as far as I understood it the fact was that Ren was the only apprentice and his turning caused Luke to give up on training others. + Show Spoiler +
Note however, that Kylo was winning the duel pretty handily until Rey got the lightsaber combat knowledge from his mind. I assume that's what happened since at the time all Rey knew about the Force was from Kylo - the mind reading, which she later turned into mindtrick, she also only used force pull when Kylo did.
+ Show Spoiler +I want to believe that Rey and Ren are based off the EU's Jacen and Jaina, though I'm finding it hard to believe Leia would forget she had a daughter. Ren was also fighting with a bowcaster shot to the ribs, which is kind of crazy. I can't wait to see him fighting full form. If he hadn't been injured I'm pretty sure he would have lopped Rey's head off pretty quickly.
+ Show Spoiler +I really do get a strong Jacen and Jaina feel off them, and Ren is even named after another of the EU characters (Ben Skywalker). Han very clearly does acknowledge Rey as something similar to kin, and so does Leia. It's possible they didn't forget but that they somehow lost their daughter - maybe she was stolen the same as the Falcon.
On December 20 2015 22:18 DMKraft wrote:I enjoyed the movie except for a few things that varied too much from the previous ways of Star Wars movies. These are all just my opinion, I am no expert and only know the lore of the movies. + Show Spoiler +
1)
"Traveling through hyperspace ain't like dusting crops, boy! Without precise calculations we could fly right through a star, or bounce too close to a supernova and that'd end your trip real quick, wouldn't it. "
An established problem of Star Wars and key issue that stopped people bouncing around constantly was the fact that you can't jump into FTL without making calculations, while in hanger bays, etc. Now apparently anytime anyone is in trouble they can just hit the button and they are safe, why ever fight! This was such a key and constant problem in the originals it is weird that it was ignored now. BSG, Firefly, Star Wars etc all create self-imposed laws to stop people teleporting away all the time and allow for conflict.
2)
TIE fighters can't jump to lightspeed, of course you are going down to the planet, you can't go anywhere else.
3)
As others have mentioned it was a big part of the previous movies that using the force took years of training before Luke, Anakin or anyone can use the force. It took 3 movies before people became trained in the force but now the mind trick was learnt in seconds. And MiniVader had rapidly changing power levels from being able to hold someone completely still, catch a blaster shot or throw them away with his mind - to being as good at sabre fighting as a concussed girl holding a sword for the first time ever.
4)
Yet another deathstar? With a weak point that leads to catastrophic destruction? That needs some shields taken down? Not getting lazy are we in the writing department?
5)
Lukes map fragment thing, not sure what that was about, especially when the map it fit into seemed to just be a map of "The Galaxy".
6)
Han's intro and following scenes were too cheesy, with the weird aliens and bounty hunters after him.
I did enjoy the movie, 9/10 as entertainment, just those minor qualms. Movies seem to have changing power levels all the time now, so that seems to be the go to thing for writers now. Better than the prequels, not quite the originals imo.
+ Show Spoiler +For all of the restrictions on hyperspace jumping, I never saw time as one of them. Han talks about how the navicomputer needs to make the calculations, but that's literally the only time we ever saw it be an issue (and it was more of a "get on my level scrub" to Luke than a real concern). ESB had a very conveniently timed hyperspace getaway from the Executor by Leia/Lando/Chewie.
I could believe that in 30(or is it 20?) years, TIE technology could have improved.
The Death Star is a pretty poorly conceived design for sure. Blame Abrams' desire to be grandiose as always.
Luke's map also had a very clear path to where he was - the yellow dotted points. Sure they could see that he was in some sector, but that sector was probably hundreds or thousands of star systems. You could probe it like they did to find Hoth, but it's harder to find a person than a base with infrastructure.
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On December 21 2015 00:45 LegalLord wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2015 21:41 tofucake wrote:On December 20 2015 12:35 Manit0u wrote:On December 20 2015 11:15 tofucake wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Ren wasn't a Sith apprentice, nor was he fully trained. It was made pretty clear that he turned before completing his apprenticeship as a Jedi and caused Luke to lose faith in himself. It explains why Ren's lightsaber is so janky: he didn't use natural crystals like Jedi, and he didn't have a Sith master to teach him how to make the artificial crystals Sith use (Snoke isn't a Sith, nor a Jedi, though it's ambiguous whether or not he's Force sensitive). Ren essentially winged the whole lightsaber issue, and he's not fully trained in the Force either. There were no other Jedi, aside from Luke, as far as I understood it the fact was that Ren was the only apprentice and his turning caused Luke to give up on training others. + Show Spoiler +
Note however, that Kylo was winning the duel pretty handily until Rey got the lightsaber combat knowledge from his mind. I assume that's what happened since at the time all Rey knew about the Force was from Kylo - the mind reading, which she later turned into mindtrick, she also only used force pull when Kylo did.
+ Show Spoiler +I want to believe that Rey and Ren are based off the EU's Jacen and Jaina, though I'm finding it hard to believe Leia would forget she had a daughter. Ren was also fighting with a bowcaster shot to the ribs, which is kind of crazy. I can't wait to see him fighting full form. If he hadn't been injured I'm pretty sure he would have lopped Rey's head off pretty quickly. + Show Spoiler +I really do get a strong Jacen and Jaina feel off them, and Ren is even named after another of the EU characters (Ben Skywalker). Han very clearly does acknowledge Rey as something similar to kin, and so does Leia. It's possible they didn't forget but that they somehow lost their daughter - maybe she was stolen the same as the Falcon.
+ Show Spoiler +I think they hid her after Ren was turned and they were scared that the First Order would come after her. They didn't know where she was because Luke did it and made sure Ren couldn't get the information out of them.
Or its Lukes daughter and he hid her for the same reasons.
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+ Show Spoiler +There is no way Rey is the daughter of Han/Leia. That would be sooo bad in context of what we already know.
Kylo's real name being Ben is hardly an 'EU thing' tbh, it's just some very obvious reference to Obi Wan.
About my main problem, does anybody have any idea how much time passed in the movie? I really would like to know. I mean it should at least be a couple days/weeks right? But i really can't tell -.-
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On December 21 2015 00:45 LegalLord wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2015 21:41 tofucake wrote:On December 20 2015 12:35 Manit0u wrote:On December 20 2015 11:15 tofucake wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Ren wasn't a Sith apprentice, nor was he fully trained. It was made pretty clear that he turned before completing his apprenticeship as a Jedi and caused Luke to lose faith in himself. It explains why Ren's lightsaber is so janky: he didn't use natural crystals like Jedi, and he didn't have a Sith master to teach him how to make the artificial crystals Sith use (Snoke isn't a Sith, nor a Jedi, though it's ambiguous whether or not he's Force sensitive). Ren essentially winged the whole lightsaber issue, and he's not fully trained in the Force either. There were no other Jedi, aside from Luke, as far as I understood it the fact was that Ren was the only apprentice and his turning caused Luke to give up on training others. + Show Spoiler +
Note however, that Kylo was winning the duel pretty handily until Rey got the lightsaber combat knowledge from his mind. I assume that's what happened since at the time all Rey knew about the Force was from Kylo - the mind reading, which she later turned into mindtrick, she also only used force pull when Kylo did.
+ Show Spoiler +I want to believe that Rey and Ren are based off the EU's Jacen and Jaina, though I'm finding it hard to believe Leia would forget she had a daughter. Ren was also fighting with a bowcaster shot to the ribs, which is kind of crazy. I can't wait to see him fighting full form. If he hadn't been injured I'm pretty sure he would have lopped Rey's head off pretty quickly. + Show Spoiler +I really do get a strong Jacen and Jaina feel off them, and Ren is even named after another of the EU characters (Ben Skywalker). Han very clearly does acknowledge Rey as something similar to kin, and so does Leia. It's possible they didn't forget but that they somehow lost their daughter - maybe she was stolen the same as the Falcon. Show nested quote +On December 20 2015 22:18 DMKraft wrote:I enjoyed the movie except for a few things that varied too much from the previous ways of Star Wars movies. These are all just my opinion, I am no expert and only know the lore of the movies. + Show Spoiler +
1)
"Traveling through hyperspace ain't like dusting crops, boy! Without precise calculations we could fly right through a star, or bounce too close to a supernova and that'd end your trip real quick, wouldn't it. "
An established problem of Star Wars and key issue that stopped people bouncing around constantly was the fact that you can't jump into FTL without making calculations, while in hanger bays, etc. Now apparently anytime anyone is in trouble they can just hit the button and they are safe, why ever fight! This was such a key and constant problem in the originals it is weird that it was ignored now. BSG, Firefly, Star Wars etc all create self-imposed laws to stop people teleporting away all the time and allow for conflict.
2)
TIE fighters can't jump to lightspeed, of course you are going down to the planet, you can't go anywhere else.
3)
As others have mentioned it was a big part of the previous movies that using the force took years of training before Luke, Anakin or anyone can use the force. It took 3 movies before people became trained in the force but now the mind trick was learnt in seconds. And MiniVader had rapidly changing power levels from being able to hold someone completely still, catch a blaster shot or throw them away with his mind - to being as good at sabre fighting as a concussed girl holding a sword for the first time ever.
4)
Yet another deathstar? With a weak point that leads to catastrophic destruction? That needs some shields taken down? Not getting lazy are we in the writing department?
5)
Lukes map fragment thing, not sure what that was about, especially when the map it fit into seemed to just be a map of "The Galaxy".
6)
Han's intro and following scenes were too cheesy, with the weird aliens and bounty hunters after him.
I did enjoy the movie, 9/10 as entertainment, just those minor qualms. Movies seem to have changing power levels all the time now, so that seems to be the go to thing for writers now. Better than the prequels, not quite the originals imo.
+ Show Spoiler +For all of the restrictions on hyperspace jumping, I never saw time as one of them. Han talks about how the navicomputer needs to make the calculations, but that's literally the only time we ever saw it be an issue (and it was more of a "get on my level scrub" to Luke than a real concern). ESB had a very conveniently timed hyperspace getaway from the Executor by Leia/Lando/Chewie.
I could believe that in 30(or is it 20?) years, TIE technology could have improved.
The Death Star is a pretty poorly conceived design for sure. Blame Abrams' desire to be grandiose as always.
Luke's map also had a very clear path to where he was - the yellow dotted points. Sure they could see that he was in some sector, but that sector was probably hundreds or thousands of star systems. You could probe it like they did to find Hoth, but it's harder to find a person than a base with infrastructure.
+ Show Spoiler +In response to your first spoiler....I thought when Han was confronting Ren he even called him "Ben", as if his name was Ben before he took on the name Kylo Ren
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On December 21 2015 00:57 Chewbacca. wrote:Show nested quote +On December 21 2015 00:45 LegalLord wrote:On December 20 2015 21:41 tofucake wrote:On December 20 2015 12:35 Manit0u wrote:On December 20 2015 11:15 tofucake wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Ren wasn't a Sith apprentice, nor was he fully trained. It was made pretty clear that he turned before completing his apprenticeship as a Jedi and caused Luke to lose faith in himself. It explains why Ren's lightsaber is so janky: he didn't use natural crystals like Jedi, and he didn't have a Sith master to teach him how to make the artificial crystals Sith use (Snoke isn't a Sith, nor a Jedi, though it's ambiguous whether or not he's Force sensitive). Ren essentially winged the whole lightsaber issue, and he's not fully trained in the Force either. There were no other Jedi, aside from Luke, as far as I understood it the fact was that Ren was the only apprentice and his turning caused Luke to give up on training others. + Show Spoiler +
Note however, that Kylo was winning the duel pretty handily until Rey got the lightsaber combat knowledge from his mind. I assume that's what happened since at the time all Rey knew about the Force was from Kylo - the mind reading, which she later turned into mindtrick, she also only used force pull when Kylo did.
+ Show Spoiler +I want to believe that Rey and Ren are based off the EU's Jacen and Jaina, though I'm finding it hard to believe Leia would forget she had a daughter. Ren was also fighting with a bowcaster shot to the ribs, which is kind of crazy. I can't wait to see him fighting full form. If he hadn't been injured I'm pretty sure he would have lopped Rey's head off pretty quickly. + Show Spoiler +I really do get a strong Jacen and Jaina feel off them, and Ren is even named after another of the EU characters (Ben Skywalker). Han very clearly does acknowledge Rey as something similar to kin, and so does Leia. It's possible they didn't forget but that they somehow lost their daughter - maybe she was stolen the same as the Falcon. On December 20 2015 22:18 DMKraft wrote:I enjoyed the movie except for a few things that varied too much from the previous ways of Star Wars movies. These are all just my opinion, I am no expert and only know the lore of the movies. + Show Spoiler +
1)
"Traveling through hyperspace ain't like dusting crops, boy! Without precise calculations we could fly right through a star, or bounce too close to a supernova and that'd end your trip real quick, wouldn't it. "
An established problem of Star Wars and key issue that stopped people bouncing around constantly was the fact that you can't jump into FTL without making calculations, while in hanger bays, etc. Now apparently anytime anyone is in trouble they can just hit the button and they are safe, why ever fight! This was such a key and constant problem in the originals it is weird that it was ignored now. BSG, Firefly, Star Wars etc all create self-imposed laws to stop people teleporting away all the time and allow for conflict.
2)
TIE fighters can't jump to lightspeed, of course you are going down to the planet, you can't go anywhere else.
3)
As others have mentioned it was a big part of the previous movies that using the force took years of training before Luke, Anakin or anyone can use the force. It took 3 movies before people became trained in the force but now the mind trick was learnt in seconds. And MiniVader had rapidly changing power levels from being able to hold someone completely still, catch a blaster shot or throw them away with his mind - to being as good at sabre fighting as a concussed girl holding a sword for the first time ever.
4)
Yet another deathstar? With a weak point that leads to catastrophic destruction? That needs some shields taken down? Not getting lazy are we in the writing department?
5)
Lukes map fragment thing, not sure what that was about, especially when the map it fit into seemed to just be a map of "The Galaxy".
6)
Han's intro and following scenes were too cheesy, with the weird aliens and bounty hunters after him.
I did enjoy the movie, 9/10 as entertainment, just those minor qualms. Movies seem to have changing power levels all the time now, so that seems to be the go to thing for writers now. Better than the prequels, not quite the originals imo.
+ Show Spoiler +For all of the restrictions on hyperspace jumping, I never saw time as one of them. Han talks about how the navicomputer needs to make the calculations, but that's literally the only time we ever saw it be an issue (and it was more of a "get on my level scrub" to Luke than a real concern). ESB had a very conveniently timed hyperspace getaway from the Executor by Leia/Lando/Chewie.
I could believe that in 30(or is it 20?) years, TIE technology could have improved.
The Death Star is a pretty poorly conceived design for sure. Blame Abrams' desire to be grandiose as always.
Luke's map also had a very clear path to where he was - the yellow dotted points. Sure they could see that he was in some sector, but that sector was probably hundreds or thousands of star systems. You could probe it like they did to find Hoth, but it's harder to find a person than a base with infrastructure. + Show Spoiler +In response to your first spoiler....I thought when Han was confronting Ren he even called him "Ben", as if his name was Ben before he took on the name Kylo Ren
Yes.
On December 21 2015 00:54 The_Red_Viper wrote:+ Show Spoiler +There is no way Rey is the daughter of Han/Leia. That would be sooo bad in context of what we already know.
Kylo's real name being Ben is hardly an 'EU thing' tbh, it's just some very obvious reference to Obi Wan.
About my main problem, does anybody have any idea how much time passed in the movie? I really would like to know. I mean it should at least be a couple days/weeks right? But i really can't tell -.-
+ Show Spoiler +Well she's clearly not just some stranger, and I'm not really seeing the evidence that she's Luke's daughter unless they introduce her mother. But there is some direct support that she's related to Han (e.g. her unusually strong mechanical knowledge, Ren directly stating that Han is a father figure to her).
Keep in mind the lightsaber is really Anakin's, not Luke's. That would still make the owner of the saber her grandfather.
Felt like a week. Hard to tell because the movie rarely slowed down.
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+ Show Spoiler +I am pretty confident that she is Luke's daughter tbh. I think it makes a lot more sense than her being the child of Han/Leia. I mean they talk about Kylo, if they also had a daughter i am sure they would talk about that too.
A nice catch someone had is that Rey says she dreams of an island and uses this image to calm herself etc, Remember where Luke was at the end? Maybe they really wanna fool us with red herrings, but it would be kinda weak imo. Just let her be Luke's daughter, it's fine that way.
Yes the constant fast pacing is really the only real problem i have with the movie. Some slow scenes to actually understand the timeline would have been perfect imo.
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On December 21 2015 01:00 LegalLord wrote:Show nested quote +On December 21 2015 00:57 Chewbacca. wrote:On December 21 2015 00:45 LegalLord wrote:On December 20 2015 21:41 tofucake wrote:On December 20 2015 12:35 Manit0u wrote:On December 20 2015 11:15 tofucake wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Ren wasn't a Sith apprentice, nor was he fully trained. It was made pretty clear that he turned before completing his apprenticeship as a Jedi and caused Luke to lose faith in himself. It explains why Ren's lightsaber is so janky: he didn't use natural crystals like Jedi, and he didn't have a Sith master to teach him how to make the artificial crystals Sith use (Snoke isn't a Sith, nor a Jedi, though it's ambiguous whether or not he's Force sensitive). Ren essentially winged the whole lightsaber issue, and he's not fully trained in the Force either. There were no other Jedi, aside from Luke, as far as I understood it the fact was that Ren was the only apprentice and his turning caused Luke to give up on training others. + Show Spoiler +
Note however, that Kylo was winning the duel pretty handily until Rey got the lightsaber combat knowledge from his mind. I assume that's what happened since at the time all Rey knew about the Force was from Kylo - the mind reading, which she later turned into mindtrick, she also only used force pull when Kylo did.
+ Show Spoiler +I want to believe that Rey and Ren are based off the EU's Jacen and Jaina, though I'm finding it hard to believe Leia would forget she had a daughter. Ren was also fighting with a bowcaster shot to the ribs, which is kind of crazy. I can't wait to see him fighting full form. If he hadn't been injured I'm pretty sure he would have lopped Rey's head off pretty quickly. + Show Spoiler +I really do get a strong Jacen and Jaina feel off them, and Ren is even named after another of the EU characters (Ben Skywalker). Han very clearly does acknowledge Rey as something similar to kin, and so does Leia. It's possible they didn't forget but that they somehow lost their daughter - maybe she was stolen the same as the Falcon. On December 20 2015 22:18 DMKraft wrote:I enjoyed the movie except for a few things that varied too much from the previous ways of Star Wars movies. These are all just my opinion, I am no expert and only know the lore of the movies. + Show Spoiler +
1)
"Traveling through hyperspace ain't like dusting crops, boy! Without precise calculations we could fly right through a star, or bounce too close to a supernova and that'd end your trip real quick, wouldn't it. "
An established problem of Star Wars and key issue that stopped people bouncing around constantly was the fact that you can't jump into FTL without making calculations, while in hanger bays, etc. Now apparently anytime anyone is in trouble they can just hit the button and they are safe, why ever fight! This was such a key and constant problem in the originals it is weird that it was ignored now. BSG, Firefly, Star Wars etc all create self-imposed laws to stop people teleporting away all the time and allow for conflict.
2)
TIE fighters can't jump to lightspeed, of course you are going down to the planet, you can't go anywhere else.
3)
As others have mentioned it was a big part of the previous movies that using the force took years of training before Luke, Anakin or anyone can use the force. It took 3 movies before people became trained in the force but now the mind trick was learnt in seconds. And MiniVader had rapidly changing power levels from being able to hold someone completely still, catch a blaster shot or throw them away with his mind - to being as good at sabre fighting as a concussed girl holding a sword for the first time ever.
4)
Yet another deathstar? With a weak point that leads to catastrophic destruction? That needs some shields taken down? Not getting lazy are we in the writing department?
5)
Lukes map fragment thing, not sure what that was about, especially when the map it fit into seemed to just be a map of "The Galaxy".
6)
Han's intro and following scenes were too cheesy, with the weird aliens and bounty hunters after him.
I did enjoy the movie, 9/10 as entertainment, just those minor qualms. Movies seem to have changing power levels all the time now, so that seems to be the go to thing for writers now. Better than the prequels, not quite the originals imo.
+ Show Spoiler +For all of the restrictions on hyperspace jumping, I never saw time as one of them. Han talks about how the navicomputer needs to make the calculations, but that's literally the only time we ever saw it be an issue (and it was more of a "get on my level scrub" to Luke than a real concern). ESB had a very conveniently timed hyperspace getaway from the Executor by Leia/Lando/Chewie.
I could believe that in 30(or is it 20?) years, TIE technology could have improved.
The Death Star is a pretty poorly conceived design for sure. Blame Abrams' desire to be grandiose as always.
Luke's map also had a very clear path to where he was - the yellow dotted points. Sure they could see that he was in some sector, but that sector was probably hundreds or thousands of star systems. You could probe it like they did to find Hoth, but it's harder to find a person than a base with infrastructure. + Show Spoiler +In response to your first spoiler....I thought when Han was confronting Ren he even called him "Ben", as if his name was Ben before he took on the name Kylo Ren Yes. Show nested quote +On December 21 2015 00:54 The_Red_Viper wrote:+ Show Spoiler +There is no way Rey is the daughter of Han/Leia. That would be sooo bad in context of what we already know.
Kylo's real name being Ben is hardly an 'EU thing' tbh, it's just some very obvious reference to Obi Wan.
About my main problem, does anybody have any idea how much time passed in the movie? I really would like to know. I mean it should at least be a couple days/weeks right? But i really can't tell -.- + Show Spoiler +Well she's clearly not just some stranger, and I'm not really seeing the evidence that she's Luke's daughter unless they introduce her mother. But there is some direct support that she's related to Han (e.g. her unusually strong mechanical knowledge, Ren directly stating that Han is a father figure to her).
Keep in mind the lightsaber is really Anakin's, not Luke's. That would still make the owner of the saber her grandfather.
Felt like a week. Hard to tell because the movie rarely slowed down.
+ Show Spoiler +The part where Ren is attempting to break into her mind and talks about her family, the island and the ocean. Then at the end she meets Luke on an inland surrounded by ocean. So, R2D2 woke up soon after Rey arrived at the resistance base.
Really it could go either way, but she could be Luke's daughter.
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+ Show Spoiler +If Rey gets her way with mechanics from anyone (which might not be the case), I would guess it's Anakin, not Han. I very much doubt she's Han/Leia's daughter. It's much more probable she's directly related to Luke instead, but I feel there's still another twist/reveal coming our way.
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On December 21 2015 01:32 kwizach wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Rey probably gets her way with mechanics from Anakin, not Han. I very much doubt she's Han/Leia's daughter. It's much more probable she's directly related to Luke instead, but I feel there's still another twist/reveal coming our way.
+ Show Spoiler +Her mechanical skill also might not be inherited. She could have talent.
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+ Show Spoiler +i don't see how she can be anyone except Luke's daughter. Having that much raw force potential, the flashback and feedback reaction to anakin's light saber, Han and leia never mentioning a daughter, looking exactly like shmi and padme
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Hyrule19200 Posts
+ Show Spoiler +The thing I dislike most is that Anakin's lightsaber is around. It fell to the bottom of Cloud City in Empire and was never mentioned again :\
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So by this rule only the skywalker name matters? I mean anakin was the son of ?? + Show Spoiler +the force needs balance so she sent Rey ^^
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On December 21 2015 01:34 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On December 21 2015 01:32 kwizach wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Rey probably gets her way with mechanics from Anakin, not Han. I very much doubt she's Han/Leia's daughter. It's much more probable she's directly related to Luke instead, but I feel there's still another twist/reveal coming our way. + Show Spoiler +Her mechanical skill also might not be inherited. She could have talent.
Think this all has way more to do with living life as a scavenger than anything. You tend to learn a lot when your life revolves around taking apart, tinkering, cleaning and repairing random crap. You figure out how stuff works pretty quick.
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On December 21 2015 01:36 KOFgokuon wrote:+ Show Spoiler +i don't see how she can be anyone except Luke's daughter. Having that much raw force potential, the flashback and feedback reaction to anakin's light saber, Han and leia never mentioning a daughter, looking exactly like shmi and padme
+ Show Spoiler +
Why does she have to be some of the known character's daughter? Can't she be just one of those random people born with force sensitivity? I really hope they're not going with some "wound in the force" bullshit like in KotOR2...
But in all seriousness, what if her parents leaving her and her waiting for their return is nothing but some basic background build-up for the character? Would you really mind it that badly if we never learned who her parents were or why they left her? Is it that important?
I know it would be cool if she turned out to be Luke's daughter. Perhaps it was Mara who left her on Jakku after the Empire fell apart or something like that.
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On December 21 2015 03:05 Manit0u wrote:Show nested quote +On December 21 2015 01:36 KOFgokuon wrote:+ Show Spoiler +i don't see how she can be anyone except Luke's daughter. Having that much raw force potential, the flashback and feedback reaction to anakin's light saber, Han and leia never mentioning a daughter, looking exactly like shmi and padme + Show Spoiler +
Why does she have to be some of the known character's daughter? Can't she be just one of those random people born with force sensitivity? I really hope they're not going with some "wound in the force" bullshit like in KotOR2...
But in all seriousness, what if her parents leaving her and her waiting for their return is nothing but some basic background build-up for the character? Would you really mind it that badly if we never learned who her parents were or why they left her? Is it that important?
I know it would be cool if she turned out to be Luke's daughter. Perhaps it was Mara who left her on Jakku after the Empire fell apart or something like that.
+ Show Spoiler +You don't have a character waiting for their family and then have no family show up. That is just bad story telling. And Luke could have just found a normal girl to settle down with, had a kid. Then Ren goes nuts, kills Luke's students, gets Luke's lady killed or kills her directly. Luke drops Rey off on a Jakku because he doesn't want Ren finding her and its not safe. Doesn't want to go after Ren because he feels he is a failure or fears that facing Ren will pull him to the dark side(if Ren killed Lukes wife). All of these are possible. Except for Mara Jade, she isn't a character in these new movies.
And we are looking at Star Wars logic, only Skywalkers can be found on desert planets.
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