Star Wars Episode VII: The Force Awakens - Page 110

At least the Phantom Menace had an original story, once people get over the hype and actually start looking at the movie its basically a rehashed 'A New Hope'. The reason why I said that Han Solo (the mentor figure) dying would be cringe-worthy and movie-ruining is because it would be a massive cop out, and they had his own son do it (ooooh did not see that coming /sarcasm)

@plagiarism: not more than avatar is plagiarizing Pocahontas. Yes, the first 5 minutes are very similar, yes there are a large amount of similarities in the way the story develops, no the characters are totally different, the places are totally different and some of the solutions to the problems are totally different.
1. Darth Maul was a sith assassin and his training was complete. Also Obi wan was a padawan. We know nothing about how far into his training Kylo Ren is.
2. Darth Bane f.e. used the force multiple times to enhance his physical training before he begins his education. Including feeling multiple lifeforms hundreds of meters away. Leia in episode 5 gets contacted by Luke through the force, because she's sensitive, without any training. We know for a fact that in episode one Anakin sees splinters of the future and sees them often enough that others think he has insane reflexes. If I looked it up I'd find more. Soon-to-be-Jedis often use the force without ever noticing. Yes the mind trick is a rather obvious way of doing it, but Bane's abilities are far further developed when he starts to become a sith.
3. True, but mainly because the force amplifies the users physical abilities. Rey has the force and apparently she is stronger than Kylo, as we can see in the interrogation.
4. No argument there.
5. Vader wasn't bleeding from a belly-wound, didn't just kill his father and didnt run around for the last few hours, including a very one-sided but still relatively long fight against Finn. Kylo is sweating heavily during the fight despite not moving all that much, has his face multiple times twisted in pain and in the end gets pushed down by a difference in physical strength. I find it very believable that he looses as much to his exhaustion as to Rey. If we consider the now non-canonical old-republic jedis and sith they both are monsters. But in the movies they are pretty mortal and any heavily wounded mortal would have difficulties unless he totally one-shots the opponent.
Not sure where your info on mind trick comes from, but every main character Jedi in the story can do it once they reach knighthood. Tbh I could imagine very well that it's forbidden for Padawans.

I didn't like the rift either though, agreed that there should have been a better solution

Nah, that wasn't Coruscant. Like someone else said, they mentioned it was a different system. My thoughts are that it was probably some sort of local Republic administrative hub which, when destroyed, effectively cut off Republic support for the resistance.

Having R2 suddenly pop up with the whole rest of the map seemed too convenient. They could have had it completed in some other fashion, like if BB had one third of it, R2 had another third of it, and there was another third on Starkiller Base that Finn and Rey could have found and brought back.

I'm undecided as to whether I liked the repeat of the trench run. On one hand, it was a fun, fanservicey throwback, but, on the other hand, I might have liked dealing with the base in a more original way.

I hope Phasma isn't gone for good. Seems like a waste for her to just be gone like that, and since we don't actually see her die, I imagine there's a good chance she'll come back in the next one.

I can see her taking Boba Fett's role in Episode VIII: The First Order Of The Empire Strikes Back

@plagiarism : did you read the thing zeo posted above ? Seems to me a little bit more than the first 5 min, but, nvm, I can understand your opinion there.

1. Hum, I disagree about complete training, even tho I see what you mean. For me, the training of a Sith is completed when he kills his master, and therefore, becomes the new master and start seeking for an other apprentice. But nvm, Maul, was really a skilled duellist, even if he wasn't a beast force user.
2. Ok, so you're basically comparing THE Darth Bane to Rey... I mean, all the explanation you've given seems to me little things, compared to the fact that Rey is actually competing with a Force wielder in a duel. Let me explain it a little bit how I feel about that.

I'm not saying that she coudln't compete at all. What i'm saying, is that they did it VERY poorly. Why ? Because, she's getting slightly beaten, UNTIL REN SAYS THE WORD FORCE. Then she cracks his ass up, meaning, to me, that she did defend hersellf not using the Force BEFORE, and used it AFTER. And what I am disappointed with is not the fact that she could defeat him after (even it's a little bit to much imo, but I can live with that), but the fact that they imply that she went just sliiiiiiightly losing WITHOUT using it. Which is, in the SW universe, IMPOSSIBLE (and don't talk to me about Jango vs Obi-Wan, cause if you dare compare a fully trained Mandalorian Bounty-Hunter with Rey, a mere scrapper with little (no ?) combat experience...)

3. Afaik, that's the Force that gives you strenght. I mean, it doesn't depend (or very little) on your own physical abilities, but rely instead on the power of your connection with the Force, and more, your experience at duelling. By that I mean, knowing when doing heavy blows to wear your opponent out, that sort of thing (I could developp that a bit later if you don't get what I mean, I don't really know how to explain it.)
4. That's settled so
5. Ye, I get your point. I still don't really agree and see it your way, but I can understand why others don't see that as I do.

About Mind Trick, I'm trying to find the intell, but can't atm. I think I read that before somewhere, but it could also be me just messing things up. I'll try to find it. Only thing I can find atm, is on the Mind Trick article on Wookieepedia, which says that Ashoka Tano tries it but does not succeed when she's still a padawan.



And that's where we disagree, see my point 2 above. And about Ren's training, we surely don't know, I get you. But about Rey, we do. answer is NONE. NOT AT ALL. Which makes Ren's training much longer than Rey's one, no matter how you look at it.

This is not nitpicking. Have you read my point before ? It blows up fully armored Stromtroopers. And Jedi/Sith don't wear armors, it restricts there move. And no cloth can protect you from a direct heavy blaster shot. Document yourself, instead of spitting nonsense. Aaaaaaaaand, nope, it doesn't happens in the OT (nor in the PT asair). It seems that Lucas was really clear on that point : if a human takes a direct blaster hit, he dies no matter what. No main character is hit by a direct shot in the previous 6 films.

About the last battle. I think they should have made a clearer point of what a torn mental state Kylo is in after having killed his father, preventing him to focus, instead of having him punch his blast wound to emphasize how hurt he is physically. Rey could then find confidence in realizing her opponent's focus is elsewhere.

Ideally they should have prefaced this in that attack-on-the-bar scene, by Kylo being as strong as we have seen him in his earlier scenes until he spots Han Solo. Something like hes holding Rey in a force choke, then suddenly drops her, showing us and Rey there's something between those two. This could prompt her to question Han about it, telling her about their relationship and some discussion about the force. Perhaps Rey should have fought Kylo before the death of Han and get toyed with, and then a follow-up fight directly after showing the adverse effects of Han's death on them both. Rey, who has only dealt with rejection and has been struggling to know who or why she is, finds resolve whereas Kylo, who knows what he wants to be and this were to be the final piece of the puzzle, just gets more torn apart.

Also, while I can buy Rey using jedi mind trick after having felt how it feels to enter someones head, they should have made it much more subtle. Have her make the stormtrooper do a very simple action, like leaving the key in the lock, and then have her strain herself learning to turn the key using the force.

All in all I actually really liked the movie, but I think an extended version would do this movie much good. I had a similar feeling after watching this as I had after watching the cinema version of the Lord of the Rings-movies. It felt like there was missing big story scenes in between all the action, and given how long the movie still is I think its possible they have a lot of material they can put back in.

Sometimes I wonder... That's no armor, that's a suit to make him live... It's a suit without which he would be dying... He does not wear it by choice... The armor part is tooooootally secondary..
Moreover, it even support what I said. Vader fights very clumsily due to his suit, he actually use Form V Djem So (as he was in the PT) because he focuses more on the power of his blows (using cinetic energy), and has he has no mobility, due to his life-support suit.

Plus I never said it destroys the movie, learn to read please.

What destroy the movie is actually that JJ Abrams couldn't hire a scenarist with the 200M$ budget he had, so he just copy/pasted ANH. This is what destroy the movie. The other parts would have been a mere distraction to find criticism if the movie actually had an ok scenario (and NEW, obv).

Pretty sure that was in Return of the Jedi when Luke was talking about Vader

REALLY liked Rey in this movie. Great character and acting. Much more interesting and likable than Luke.

Along that line, I actually really liked Kylo Ren. I think his character is significantly more interesting than somebody like Vader. A lot more to work with there.

Only real downside for me is I wish more (or really anything) was said about the scale of the conflict. We never really get a good sense for how big either the First Order or the Resistance is, or how their war is impacting the new Republic.