EPT[Movie] The Hobbit Trilogy - Page 29
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MountainDewJunkie
United States10341 Posts
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Slow Motion
United States6960 Posts
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Chewbacca.
United States3634 Posts
On December 16 2012 12:50 Slow Motion wrote: Thorin is a beast. Elves are bitches. You got that entirely backwards my friend. + Show Spoiler + Thorin cries about the elves all movie long because they arrive to a battle a little late, while throughout the whole movie they do nothing but help him --let him keep ancient elvish weapons, decipher his map, let them stay in Rivendell. Thorin finally gets him moment to prove that he isn't a little bitch...and what happens? He gets his ass kicked by an orc in like 3 seconds only to be saved by a little hobbit. Not only this but he is a prick too--doubts Bilbo and goes on about how he doesn't belong with them, doesn't trust Gandalf about the elves, doesn't listen to Gandalf's plan about waiting for him in the Moutain... The only cool thing that Thorin does is sing the Misty Mountain song at the beginning of the movie. | ||
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Kaien
Belgium178 Posts
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StreetWise
United States594 Posts
On December 16 2012 11:54 Muggs wrote: I got the same Pirates of the Carribean vibe and it bothered me a little. I could handle 90% of it, but when they all went for a ride on that janky wood scaffolding I thought it was a little too much. Both my wife and I felt the same way. It seemed a little bit too cheesy and the suspension of disbelief was a little bit too hard in some scenes as other have described. Its interesting as I felt like watching LOTR so I started by watching the Fellowship, and it the behind the scenes Jackson stated that during the making of LOTR he wanted people to act as if everything really did happen and as if they were re creating history rather than a work of fiction. Its almost as if he left this philosophy behind in this film. That said I know the Hobbit was also written quite a bit lighter than the LOTR series. | ||
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igotmyown
United States4291 Posts
On December 16 2012 13:11 Chewbacca. wrote: You got that entirely backwards my friend. + Show Spoiler + Thorin cries about the elves all movie long because they arrive to a battle a little late, while throughout the whole movie they do nothing but help him --let him keep ancient elvish weapons, decipher his map, let them stay in Rivendell. Thorin finally gets him moment to prove that he isn't a little bitch...and what happens? He gets his ass kicked by an orc in like 3 seconds only to be saved by a little hobbit. Not only this but he is a prick too--doubts Bilbo and goes on about how he doesn't belong with them, doesn't trust Gandalf about the elves, doesn't listen to Gandalf's plan about waiting for him in the Moutain... The only cool thing that Thorin does is sing the Misty Mountain song at the beginning of the movie. Going to get lore nerdy here, but I think near the end of the hobbit they mention that wood elves are particularly greedy for jewels and refused to pay the Dwarves who crafted their stuff (way before the book happened). Also, there's a lot of bad blood in the non-book lore, like the elves hunting the dwarves because they thought of them as animals, and there was something about the necklace, murder, and the elves refusing to pay the dwarves. --- And to go in the opposite direction, Gandalf in the Hobbit is not written as a demigod. He's an experienced traveler who knows a lot of lore and can cast useful spells, but he's very afraid for his life of the wolves that surround him, and he doesn't go in and smite all the trolls. Gandalf is not supposed to be the Superman of the Hobbit. The Hobbit is about a boring, ordinary, comfortable guy who ends up in a lot of dangerous situations (if gandalf is a demigod, Bilbo's obviously not in any danger until Mirkwood), but ends up becoming a brave and resourceful leader when he didn't even know it. It's supposed to connect to children and normal readers, that they can do great things too. | ||
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Kuja900
United States3564 Posts
Oh and one more minor bird related quirk. At the end of the movie they just leave the company on top of this rock formation that there appears to be no realistic way down from minus a dangerous climb down and what seems to be just a few miles away from their destination. Why there of all places and not right next to the backdoor they are trying to get to? | ||
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Kuja900
United States3564 Posts
On December 16 2012 13:11 Chewbacca. wrote: You got that entirely backwards my friend. + Show Spoiler + Thorin cries about the elves all movie long because they arrive to a battle a little late, while throughout the whole movie they do nothing but help him --let him keep ancient elvish weapons, decipher his map, let them stay in Rivendell. Thorin finally gets him moment to prove that he isn't a little bitch...and what happens? He gets his ass kicked by an orc in like 3 seconds only to be saved by a little hobbit. Not only this but he is a prick too--doubts Bilbo and goes on about how he doesn't belong with them, doesn't trust Gandalf about the elves, doesn't listen to Gandalf's plan about waiting for him in the Moutain... The only cool thing that Thorin does is sing the Misty Mountain song at the beginning of the movie. Well and hulk out after his daddy died | ||
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Sakenator
United States45 Posts
On December 16 2012 14:01 Kuja900 wrote: Ok so someone help me out with this because it is bothering me. If Gandalf had those eagles at beckoned call why didn't he just have them fly him and his company from the shire to their destination? In fact why didn't he do that in the original trilogy either? Oh and one more minor bird related quirk. At the end of the movie they just leave the company on top of this rock formation that there appears to be no realistic way down from minus a dangerous climb down and what seems to be just a few miles away from their destination. Why there of all places and not right next to the backdoor they are trying to get to? I highly suggest you read the book and alot of your questions will be answered in that regard. The movie actually does a pretty horrible job of following the book so it can seem kind of confusing. | ||
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Kuja900
United States3564 Posts
On December 16 2012 14:10 Sakenator wrote: I highly suggest you read the book and alot of your questions will be answered in that regard. The movie actually does a pretty horrible job of following the book so it can seem kind of confusing. Could you maybe help me with this specific question  | ||
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Chewbacca.
United States3634 Posts
On December 16 2012 14:01 Kuja900 wrote: Ok so someone help me out with this because it is bothering me. If Gandalf had those eagles at beckoned call why didn't he just have them fly him and his company from the shire to their destination? In fact why didn't he do that in the original trilogy either? Oh and one more minor bird related quirk. At the end of the movie they just leave the company on top of this rock formation that there appears to be no realistic way down from minus a dangerous climb down and what seems to be just a few miles away from their destination. Why there of all places and not right next to the backdoor they are trying to get to? To answer your question as to why didn't the eagles just do this and that I give you this quote that I obtained from google. + Show Spoiler + As I understand it. In the Silmarillion, Manwe becomes the lord of the Valar while Melkor his brother (aka Morgoth) becomes the 1st dark lord of middle earth. Manwe is the lord of the winds and the sky and the eagles are his messengers. After the overthrow of Morgoth, the Valar will not interfere in middle earth due to the actions of Feanor and his kin. (Their last great act is the drowning of Numenor). After that they effectively disown themsleves and let events play out of their own accord. I believe that Manwe would have been pefectly capable of destroying the ring himself but would not. In the same way, i believe his messengers (the eagles) would also have been able to but he simply did not want that direct an involvement. He simply sent them to help out when need was most dire but not to do the job themselves Having not read the Silmarillion or kept up on my LOTR lore...I don't really know these names/if this guy is at all correct but his explanation sounds like a good one to me. | ||
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Sentenal
United States12398 Posts
On December 16 2012 14:01 Kuja900 wrote: Ok so someone help me out with this because it is bothering me. If Gandalf had those eagles at beckoned call why didn't he just have them fly him and his company from the shire to their destination? In fact why didn't he do that in the original trilogy either? Oh and one more minor bird related quirk. At the end of the movie they just leave the company on top of this rock formation that there appears to be no realistic way down from minus a dangerous climb down and what seems to be just a few miles away from their destination. Why there of all places and not right next to the backdoor they are trying to get to? Just my speculation, as I don't know the official reason. Eagles in The Hobbit/LotR are agents of Manwë, who is the Lord of the Valar, who are essentially Angels (and as an aside, Gandalf is a Maiar, which makes him a lesser "Angel"). Since they are agents of what are essentially the Gods of Middle Earth, their purpose isn't to do everything for the Mortals. The point of the stories of both LotR and the Hobbit are little, small, weak people rising up to face great challenges, and surpassing them. You can sort of take this as how the "Gods" of Middle Earth want things to happen, as in, they want people to rise and defeat the challenges they face themselves. They help out when absolutely necessary, like when there is no other option, but they aren't there to do the jobs of the heroes. | ||
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JeanBob
Canada295 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + On December 16 2012 14:20 Sentenal wrote: On December 16 2012 14:01 Kuja900 wrote: Ok so someone help me out with this because it is bothering me. If Gandalf had those eagles at beckoned call why didn't he just have them fly him and his company from the shire to their destination? In fact why didn't he do that in the original trilogy either? Oh and one more minor bird related quirk. At the end of the movie they just leave the company on top of this rock formation that there appears to be no realistic way down from minus a dangerous climb down and what seems to be just a few miles away from their destination. Why there of all places and not right next to the backdoor they are trying to get to? Just my speculation, as I don't know the official reason. Eagles in The Hobbit/LotR are agents of Manwë, who is the Lord of the Valar, who are essentially Angels (and as an aside, Gandalf is a Maiar, which makes him a lesser "Angel"). Since they are agents of what are essentially the Gods of Middle Earth, their purpose isn't to do everything for the Mortals. The point of the stories of both LotR and the Hobbit are little, small, weak people rising up to face great challenges, and surpassing them. You can sort of take this as how the "Gods" of Middle Earth want things to happen, as in, they want people to rise and defeat the challenges they face themselves. They help out when absolutely necessary, like when there is no other option, but they aren't there to do the jobs of the heroes. That's about what I conclude from reading the Silmarillion and discussing with a friend of min who is a much bigger Tolkien fan. + Show Spoiler + He said Manwë was really passive a vala to begin with, and he made his messengers to his own image, so they don't like to participate in those kind of things. | ||
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Steveling
Greece10806 Posts
Yes, I'll be counting down the hours here. | ||
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JeanBob
Canada295 Posts
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igotmyown
United States4291 Posts
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Telcontar
United Kingdom16710 Posts
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Sentenal
United States12398 Posts
On December 16 2012 14:43 igotmyown wrote: In lotr, if the eagles tried fly them into mount doom, the Nazgul would have probably would have swarmed them and taken the Ring. This isn't true. The Eagles are extremely powerful, and able to fight with Dragons. Not to mention there are only 9 Nazgul, and many more Eagles. And the winged beasts the Nazgul road on are nothing like actual Dragons. They could have flown Frodo there. But that wasn't what "God" intended for them to do. | ||
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Steveling
Greece10806 Posts
On December 16 2012 14:53 Sentenal wrote: This isn't true. The Eagles are extremely powerful, and able to fight with Dragons. Not to mention there are only 9 Nazgul, and many more Eagles. And the winged beasts the Nazgul road on are nothing like actual Dragons. They could have flown Frodo there. But that wasn't what "God" intended for them to do. No, you are forgetting one thing. Like everything else, their species has grown weaker by now. Pit some lotr/hobbit heroes against their silmarillion counterparts and they will get their asses handed to them. Aragorn vs Turin, Elrod vs Fingolfin, Gwaihir vs Thorondor? Not even a contest. The old eagles were comparable to dragons yes, but the modern ones, meh. | ||
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Sentenal
United States12398 Posts
On December 16 2012 15:05 Steveling wrote: No, you are forgetting one thing. Like everything else, their species has grown weaker by now. Pit some lotr/hobbit heroes against their silmarillion counterparts and they will get their asses handed to them. Aragorn vs Turin, Elrod vs Fingolfin, Gwaihir vs Thorondor? Not even a contest. The old eagles were comparable to dragons yes, but the modern ones, meh. Not sure how you are forming that conclusion. | ||
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