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Lorning
Belgica34432 Posts
On August 16 2014 23:05 pyro19 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2014 22:28 obesechicken13 wrote:
I think most of the development this season has been on Lin. We know why she's such a hardass now. Something something about wanting to impress her mother. We also see Mako and Bolin's families but not much is gained from this insight.
We also get to see Zuko again but that's almost fan service.
Just about every episode has had some fighting to keep things interesting and I think that's limited the amount of development possible.
It's really hard to develop a little about every character in so little time. For instance we really knew very little about Azula's gang except their backstory and personality until we started seeing Mai in her home city or all of them on the beach or Azula talking to her mother in a mirror. That took seasons of time. Precisely my point. They've introduced way too many characters with little to no backstories and dull personalities just for the sake for it. Plus compare the characters in TLA when they are introduced in the first season to the third season and there is a huge difference in their personalities , growth and skills as they move along making it a better viewing experience rather than see them getting beat around by every man and his dog or make the same lame jokes again and again. The show's being dumbed down to make it more kiddy friendly.The animations are better , everything else is worse. Can't believe some people compare it to TLA.
Yeah, I don't think you know what you're talking about. Or you should watch TLA again to refresh your memory
This is probably the best season of both TLA and LOK. Better fights, better music, very good voice acting and no useless shit like "The Great Divide" (although I would have liked more episodes per season). I have been sitting on the edge of my seat during this season, TLA was never this tense.
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iroh had an entire montage of working out and getting buff
how can you not call that character development
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On August 17 2014 01:52 Kupon3ss wrote:
iroh had an entire montage of working out and getting buff
how can you not call that character development
On a somewhat tangential note: is there any media which went into more detail on how Iroh actually escaped from prison?
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There wasn't much to it.
He kept training and getting in better shape. He was already an incredible firebender to begin with. He just waited, bid his time and made his jailors believe he was weak. Then he unleashed his full power on them and escaped.
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On August 16 2014 23:18 Warri wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2014 23:05 pyro19 wrote:On August 16 2014 22:28 obesechicken13 wrote:
I think most of the development this season has been on Lin. We know why she's such a hardass now. Something something about wanting to impress her mother. We also see Mako and Bolin's families but not much is gained from this insight.
We also get to see Zuko again but that's almost fan service.
Just about every episode has had some fighting to keep things interesting and I think that's limited the amount of development possible.
It's really hard to develop a little about every character in so little time. For instance we really knew very little about Azula's gang except their backstory and personality until we started seeing Mai in her home city or all of them on the beach or Azula talking to her mother in a mirror. That took seasons of time. Precisely my point. They've introduced way too many characters with little to no backstories and dull personalities just for the sake for it.Plus compare the characters in TLA when they are introduced in the first season to the third season and there is a huge difference in their personalities , growth and skills as they move along making it a better viewing experience rather than see them getting beat around by every man and his dog or make the same lame jokes again and again. The show's being dumbed down to make it more kiddy friendly.The animations are better , everything else is worse. Can't believe some people compare it to TLA. Wtf are you on about. First, TLA had 20 episodes instead of 12/13. Second, Azula had absolutely zero "development" except for the mirror scene few minutes prior to being defeated. That was after 42 episodes after being introduced. She was the badass pwnthemall that P'Li is now for example. The same goes for Iroh, he had almost as much screentime as Zuko and aside from finally making up his mind and join the white lotus in freeing basingse, again in the very last episode, he had absolutely no development. The format is complety different too. TLA was, apart from the Basingse episodes, relatively standalone episodes with an overarching story of aang training bending. There were no surprises, no scheming. We knew exactly what was to come, 50 episodes before it actually happened. Everything in between was just a journey. In season 2 of Korra we had no clue what Unalaks plan was, or if he actually was a villain at all, until it actually happened. The same goes for season 3. Its episode 10 and we STILL dont know what exactly Zaheer wants with Korra. The show is focussed on the story, not on on the journey of the characters that leads them to growth as much as TLA. Oh, i forgot to mention that Aang have any development at all in the 60 episodes aside from learning bending?
There's more to character development than just their growth.
A character can be well-developed without growing. All that means is that they've been well characterized. They don't need some inner growth to in order to be considered developed. Luke Skywalker's a pretty well-developed character, and he doesn't really grow at all.
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United States7483 Posts
On August 17 2014 04:57 Millitron wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2014 23:18 Warri wrote:On August 16 2014 23:05 pyro19 wrote:On August 16 2014 22:28 obesechicken13 wrote:
I think most of the development this season has been on Lin. We know why she's such a hardass now. Something something about wanting to impress her mother. We also see Mako and Bolin's families but not much is gained from this insight.
We also get to see Zuko again but that's almost fan service.
Just about every episode has had some fighting to keep things interesting and I think that's limited the amount of development possible.
It's really hard to develop a little about every character in so little time. For instance we really knew very little about Azula's gang except their backstory and personality until we started seeing Mai in her home city or all of them on the beach or Azula talking to her mother in a mirror. That took seasons of time. Precisely my point. They've introduced way too many characters with little to no backstories and dull personalities just for the sake for it.Plus compare the characters in TLA when they are introduced in the first season to the third season and there is a huge difference in their personalities , growth and skills as they move along making it a better viewing experience rather than see them getting beat around by every man and his dog or make the same lame jokes again and again. The show's being dumbed down to make it more kiddy friendly.The animations are better , everything else is worse. Can't believe some people compare it to TLA. Wtf are you on about. First, TLA had 20 episodes instead of 12/13. Second, Azula had absolutely zero "development" except for the mirror scene few minutes prior to being defeated. That was after 42 episodes after being introduced. She was the badass pwnthemall that P'Li is now for example. The same goes for Iroh, he had almost as much screentime as Zuko and aside from finally making up his mind and join the white lotus in freeing basingse, again in the very last episode, he had absolutely no development. The format is complety different too. TLA was, apart from the Basingse episodes, relatively standalone episodes with an overarching story of aang training bending. There were no surprises, no scheming. We knew exactly what was to come, 50 episodes before it actually happened. Everything in between was just a journey. In season 2 of Korra we had no clue what Unalaks plan was, or if he actually was a villain at all, until it actually happened. The same goes for season 3. Its episode 10 and we STILL dont know what exactly Zaheer wants with Korra. The show is focussed on the story, not on on the journey of the characters that leads them to growth as much as TLA. Oh, i forgot to mention that Aang have any development at all in the 60 episodes aside from learning bending? There's more to character development than just their growth. A character can be well-developed without growing. All that means is that they've been well characterized. They don't need some inner growth to in order to be considered developed. Luke Skywalker's a pretty well-developed character, and he doesn't really grow at all.
Luke grows a ton from the start of Episode 4 to the end of Episode 6.
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On August 17 2014 00:29 Lorning wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2014 23:05 pyro19 wrote:On August 16 2014 22:28 obesechicken13 wrote:
I think most of the development this season has been on Lin. We know why she's such a hardass now. Something something about wanting to impress her mother. We also see Mako and Bolin's families but not much is gained from this insight.
We also get to see Zuko again but that's almost fan service.
Just about every episode has had some fighting to keep things interesting and I think that's limited the amount of development possible.
It's really hard to develop a little about every character in so little time. For instance we really knew very little about Azula's gang except their backstory and personality until we started seeing Mai in her home city or all of them on the beach or Azula talking to her mother in a mirror. That took seasons of time. Precisely my point. They've introduced way too many characters with little to no backstories and dull personalities just for the sake for it. Plus compare the characters in TLA when they are introduced in the first season to the third season and there is a huge difference in their personalities , growth and skills as they move along making it a better viewing experience rather than see them getting beat around by every man and his dog or make the same lame jokes again and again. The show's being dumbed down to make it more kiddy friendly.The animations are better , everything else is worse. Can't believe some people compare it to TLA. Yeah, I don't think you know what you're talking about. Or you should watch TLA again to refresh your memory This is probably the best season of both TLA and LOK. Better fights, better music, very good voice acting and no useless shit like "The Great Divide" (although I would have liked more episodes per season). I have been sitting on the edge of my seat during this season, TLA was never this tense.
I agree calling it kiddy friendly was a bit too far , considering someone was just murdered in cold blood.I just take offence to the fact that people compare it and even call it "better" than TLA. That's not really the series fault too since it's a standalone season by season series.
Zero character development , uninspiring and personality devoid Villians (right until zaheer), Random fights with no consequences whatsoever and the supporting cast that is still written exactly the same as how they were in the first season. Bolin's still an Idiot , mako's still a brooding firebender that gets his shit kicked in by any half decent bender and I don't really understand the point of Asami right now except for a weird love triangle?
Compare these characters to Korra who's grown leaps and bound since the start of the show , her character now reacts differently to different situations and seems more mature and level headed while growing from strength to strength. Every season it looks like we wait for Korra to power up to defeat the final antagonist while the rest of her supporting cast fills in the time.
In comparison , Aang's group takes down an entire freaking fire nation fleet in one of the most well orchestrated and well animated fight scenes I've ever seen and show how far they've come from the scared and wimpy teenagers in the very first scene of TLA. That show had some really really solid characters for an animated series and that's what set it apart from so many other action-adventure cartoons and made it such a revered series that even adults could watch without their being a drop in content matter and quality storyline. Every character on that series had a purpose and a reason to their actions and as seasons went by we began seeing a change in their conscience and their personalities in lieu of the circumstances as it happens in the real world.That's what made it so much more fun for me to invest emotionally into a series like that.
Like for like compare Bolin to sokka , both of them being the comic relief of their respective shows and now compare their characters from Season 1 to Season 3.
So if i go back to your first point
Better fights - Better animated for sure
better music - Agreed
Better voice acting - Completely disagree , Korra's and Tenzin and Bolin sound well done but the rest are just monotonous. Compare these to Azula , Zuko or even Aang and it's pretty clear who comes out on top.
"This is probably the best season of both TLA and LOK" - Yeah , I don't think you know what you're talking about 
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On August 16 2014 23:18 Warri wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2014 23:05 pyro19 wrote:On August 16 2014 22:28 obesechicken13 wrote:
I think most of the development this season has been on Lin. We know why she's such a hardass now. Something something about wanting to impress her mother. We also see Mako and Bolin's families but not much is gained from this insight.
We also get to see Zuko again but that's almost fan service.
Just about every episode has had some fighting to keep things interesting and I think that's limited the amount of development possible.
It's really hard to develop a little about every character in so little time. For instance we really knew very little about Azula's gang except their backstory and personality until we started seeing Mai in her home city or all of them on the beach or Azula talking to her mother in a mirror. That took seasons of time. Precisely my point. They've introduced way too many characters with little to no backstories and dull personalities just for the sake for it.Plus compare the characters in TLA when they are introduced in the first season to the third season and there is a huge difference in their personalities , growth and skills as they move along making it a better viewing experience rather than see them getting beat around by every man and his dog or make the same lame jokes again and again. The show's being dumbed down to make it more kiddy friendly.The animations are better , everything else is worse. Can't believe some people compare it to TLA. Wtf are you on about. First, TLA had 20 episodes instead of 12/13. Second, Azula had absolutely zero "development" except for the mirror scene few minutes prior to being defeated. That was after 42 episodes after being introduced. She was the badass pwnthemall that P'Li is now for example. The same goes for Iroh, he had almost as much screentime as Zuko and aside from finally making up his mind and join the white lotus in freeing basingse, again in the very last episode, he had absolutely no development. The format is complety different too. TLA was, apart from the Basingse episodes, relatively standalone episodes with an overarching story of aang training bending. There were no surprises, no scheming. We knew exactly what was to come, 50 episodes before it actually happened. Everything in between was just a journey. In season 2 of Korra we had no clue what Unalaks plan was, or if he actually was a villain at all, until it actually happened. The same goes for season 3. Its episode 10 and we STILL dont know what exactly Zaheer wants with Korra. The show is focussed on the story, not on on the journey of the characters that leads them to growth as much as TLA. Oh, i forgot to mention that Aang have any development at all in the 60 episodes aside from learning bending?
You make some good points and I was prepping my reasons.
Then I read that last line...............
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I'd disagree that the Korra characters aren't getting enough character development.
Mako and Bolin have their family for one, and there's also the metalbending subplot, so I wouldn't say that they're being excluded. For a while, I would agree that Asami's purpose seemed to be superfluous, but it seems like they're trying to give her a more relevant role as they go along. Tenzin and siblings have the air nation + legacy of the avatar subplot, which I think characterizes them well enough. Lin, i think we've seen enough development for her as well. Tonraq not so much, but I don't think he has much less than Hakoda, a relevant character that just doesn't need to appear that often.
As for the villains: the first two seemed pretty throwaway, I would agree on that one. Hopefully they will learn from that mistake and try to bring them all together into some form of unified purpose for the finale of S4.
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On August 17 2014 06:49 LegalLord wrote:
I'd disagree that the Korra characters aren't getting enough character development.
Mako and Bolin have their family for one, and there's also the metalbending subplot, so I wouldn't say that they're being excluded. For a while, I would agree that Asami's purpose seemed to be superfluous, but it seems like they're trying to give her a more relevant role as they go along. Tenzin and siblings have the air nation + legacy of the avatar subplot, which I think characterizes them well enough. Lin, i think we've seen enough development for her as well. Tonraq not so much, but I don't think he has much less than Hakoda, a relevant character that just doesn't need to appear that often.
As for the villains: the first two seemed pretty throwaway, I would agree on that one. Hopefully they will learn from that mistake and try to bring them all together into some form of unified purpose for the finale of S4.
I agree with what you said , they're trying to shoe in subplots for every character right now to make them more interesting so I'm happy with that however it's progressing very slowly due to the show's format.
It's a good show still , I just had to offer a counter argument when people compare it to the awesomeness that was TLA.
Oh well , different people different tastes i guess
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I think the other problem is that I don't think they really meant to make seasons 2-4 at the beginning, and that the first season was meant more as a bonus to TLA. You can see that in the first season, they make a lot of references to the past, while they really tried to cut down on that in S2 and S3 in favor of developing newer characters. If you take that into consideration, the character development really isn't all that bad.
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On August 16 2014 23:18 Warri wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2014 23:05 pyro19 wrote:On August 16 2014 22:28 obesechicken13 wrote:
I think most of the development this season has been on Lin. We know why she's such a hardass now. Something something about wanting to impress her mother. We also see Mako and Bolin's families but not much is gained from this insight.
We also get to see Zuko again but that's almost fan service.
Just about every episode has had some fighting to keep things interesting and I think that's limited the amount of development possible.
It's really hard to develop a little about every character in so little time. For instance we really knew very little about Azula's gang except their backstory and personality until we started seeing Mai in her home city or all of them on the beach or Azula talking to her mother in a mirror. That took seasons of time. Precisely my point. They've introduced way too many characters with little to no backstories and dull personalities just for the sake for it.Plus compare the characters in TLA when they are introduced in the first season to the third season and there is a huge difference in their personalities , growth and skills as they move along making it a better viewing experience rather than see them getting beat around by every man and his dog or make the same lame jokes again and again. The show's being dumbed down to make it more kiddy friendly.The animations are better , everything else is worse. Can't believe some people compare it to TLA. Wtf are you on about. First, TLA had 20 episodes instead of 12/13. Second, Azula had absolutely zero "development" except for the mirror scene few minutes prior to being defeated. That was after 42 episodes after being introduced. She was the badass pwnthemall that P'Li is now for example. The same goes for Iroh, he had almost as much screentime as Zuko and aside from finally making up his mind and join the white lotus in freeing basingse, again in the very last episode, he had absolutely no development. The format is complety different too. TLA was, apart from the Basingse episodes, relatively standalone episodes with an overarching story of aang training bending. There were no surprises, no scheming. We knew exactly what was to come, 50 episodes before it actually happened. Everything in between was just a journey. In season 2 of Korra we had no clue what Unalaks plan was, or if he actually was a villain at all, until it actually happened. The same goes for season 3. Its episode 10 and we STILL dont know what exactly Zaheer wants with Korra. The show is focussed on the story, not on on the journey of the characters that leads them to growth as much as TLA. Oh, i forgot to mention that Aang have any development at all in the 60 episodes aside from learning bending?
Iroh has a lot of development and insight into his character through out TLA. I don't know how you think Iroh had no development, maybe you mean he didn't change? He was already a very wise and powerful bender, how was he supposed to grow
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On August 17 2014 02:34 LegalLord wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2014 01:52 Kupon3ss wrote:
iroh had an entire montage of working out and getting buff
how can you not call that character development On a somewhat tangential note: is there any media which went into more detail on how Iroh actually escaped from prison?
He trained while in the cell when the guards werent watching, then either right before or right after the solar eclipse happened he busted himself out. It has to be then, because we see the door busted open with some of the prison bars cooling from being melted when Zuko goes to free him.
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On August 18 2014 12:38 Kinie wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2014 02:34 LegalLord wrote:On August 17 2014 01:52 Kupon3ss wrote:
iroh had an entire montage of working out and getting buff
how can you not call that character development On a somewhat tangential note: is there any media which went into more detail on how Iroh actually escaped from prison? He trained while in the cell when the guards werent watching, then either right before or right after the solar eclipse happened he busted himself out. It has to be then, because we see the door busted open with some of the prison bars cooling from being melted when Zuko goes to free him.
Somehow, I wonder if there was more to it than just a simple escape. If you look at the scenery, there sure looks like some substantial damage, way too much for them simply letting him get away easily. The guard seemed to be in awe of his combat ability, not just upset that they got taken by surprise.
For the past two seasons, the name of the final episode suggested some sort of finality ("Endgame" and "Light in the Dark"), while this one, not so much ("Venom of the Red Lotus"). I wonder if that means that S4 will have a story that is more than just loosely connected to this storyline? I personally don't think that with the current story development, that Korra is ready to face the main villains in a final showdown; with Amon and Unalaq, there definitely seemed to be a sense that the villains have already played all their cards and unleashed their master plan, while with Zaheer it seems like he's only getting started.
One other Avatar-related tidbit I thought some people might enjoy:
+ Show Spoiler +
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Iroh is more or less the most powerful firebender in the entire show post the working out montage. Being the crown Prince at one point, experience as a general, as well as the only character to have learnt the "real" thing from the dragons.
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On August 17 2014 06:09 pyro19 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2014 00:29 Lorning wrote:On August 16 2014 23:05 pyro19 wrote:On August 16 2014 22:28 obesechicken13 wrote:
I think most of the development this season has been on Lin. We know why she's such a hardass now. Something something about wanting to impress her mother. We also see Mako and Bolin's families but not much is gained from this insight.
We also get to see Zuko again but that's almost fan service.
Just about every episode has had some fighting to keep things interesting and I think that's limited the amount of development possible.
It's really hard to develop a little about every character in so little time. For instance we really knew very little about Azula's gang except their backstory and personality until we started seeing Mai in her home city or all of them on the beach or Azula talking to her mother in a mirror. That took seasons of time. Precisely my point. They've introduced way too many characters with little to no backstories and dull personalities just for the sake for it. Plus compare the characters in TLA when they are introduced in the first season to the third season and there is a huge difference in their personalities , growth and skills as they move along making it a better viewing experience rather than see them getting beat around by every man and his dog or make the same lame jokes again and again. The show's being dumbed down to make it more kiddy friendly.The animations are better , everything else is worse. Can't believe some people compare it to TLA. Yeah, I don't think you know what you're talking about. Or you should watch TLA again to refresh your memory This is probably the best season of both TLA and LOK. Better fights, better music, very good voice acting and no useless shit like "The Great Divide" (although I would have liked more episodes per season). I have been sitting on the edge of my seat during this season, TLA was never this tense. I agree calling it kiddy friendly was a bit too far , considering someone was just murdered in cold blood.I just take offence to the fact that people compare it and even call it "better" than TLA. That's not really the series fault too since it's a standalone season by season series. Zero character development , uninspiring and personality devoid Villians (right until zaheer), Random fights with no consequences whatsoever and the supporting cast that is still written exactly the same as how they were in the first season. Bolin's still an Idiot , mako's still a brooding firebender that gets his shit kicked in by any half decent bender and I don't really understand the point of Asami right now except for a weird love triangle? Compare these characters to Korra who's grown leaps and bound since the start of the show , her character now reacts differently to different situations and seems more mature and level headed while growing from strength to strength. Every season it looks like we wait for Korra to power up to defeat the final antagonist while the rest of her supporting cast fills in the time. In comparison , Aang's group takes down an entire freaking fire nation fleet in one of the most well orchestrated and well animated fight scenes I've ever seen and show how far they've come from the scared and wimpy teenagers in the very first scene of TLA. That show had some really really solid characters for an animated series and that's what set it apart from so many other action-adventure cartoons and made it such a revered series that even adults could watch without their being a drop in content matter and quality storyline. Every character on that series had a purpose and a reason to their actions and as seasons went by we began seeing a change in their conscience and their personalities in lieu of the circumstances as it happens in the real world.That's what made it so much more fun for me to invest emotionally into a series like that. Like for like compare Bolin to sokka , both of them being the comic relief of their respective shows and now compare their characters from Season 1 to Season 3. So if i go back to your first point Better fights - Better animated for sure better music - Agreed Better voice acting - Completely disagree , Korra's and Tenzin and Bolin sound well done but the rest are just monotonous. Compare these to Azula , Zuko or even Aang and it's pretty clear who comes out on top. "This is probably the best season of both TLA and LOK" - Yeah , I don't think you know what you're talking about
Why do you take offense because someones opinion is different then your own? Why does it offend you that somebody likes this season of korra more then all of TLA and the other 2 seasons of korra? I am just curious why this offends you.
For me this season is by far the best of korra (I did enjoy season 1 a lot though, season 2 is ok). I actually do not enjoy TLA's book 1 very much, book 2 is probably my favorite (toph ftw) and book 3 is good as well obviously.
People can have separate opinions.
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On August 18 2014 13:55 Kupon3ss wrote:
Iroh is more or less the most powerful firebender in the entire show post the working out montage. Being the crown Prince at one point, experience as a general, as well as the only character to have learnt the "real" thing from the dragons.
I'm pretty sure Azula is. No other firebender can get their flames to burn blue. No other bender was able to kill the avatar. Also she could fly with her fire even before Sozin's comet.
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United States10328 Posts
On August 19 2014 10:25 Hyperbola wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2014 13:55 Kupon3ss wrote:
Iroh is more or less the most powerful firebender in the entire show post the working out montage. Being the crown Prince at one point, experience as a general, as well as the only character to have learnt the "real" thing from the dragons. I'm pretty sure Azula is. No other firebender can get their flames to burn blue. No other bender was able to kill the avatar. Also she could fly with her fire even before Sozin's comet.
Eh, but Iroh whooped her pretty hard in 201 (but maybe because he's just a better / more wily fighter rather than being a "better firebender").
And while we're all spouting opinions (who doesn't love spouting opinions??), I'd say this season of Korra is better than TLA Season 1 but worse than 2 and a bit worse than 3.
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God damn it was hard to see Tenzin get his ass beat like that. I hope hes ok. That part at the beginning of ep 11 where the Ba Sing Sae guard was like "stop you? im going to join you, here I'll show you where all the good stuff is" had me cracking up. Its the little stuff like that that makes me love this show.
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why is pai sho not a real game?
i'd play the shit out of it
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EPT
