EPTAlso, I miss Appa. That big dog must be the most uninteresting creature they could come up with.
That said, the show is still enjoyable to me simply because I like the Avatar universe. They should expand it with books or something.
[TV] The Legend of Korra - Page 148
| Forum Index > Media & Entertainment |
|
heishe
Germany2284 Posts
Also, I miss Appa. That big dog must be the most uninteresting creature they could come up with. That said, the show is still enjoyable to me simply because I like the Avatar universe. They should expand it with books or something. | ||
|
epicopter
Canada177 Posts
I wasn't a huge fan of the setting either, I liked Avatar better when it took place in a world that felt mystical and spiritual rather than a 1920s style metropolis. I mean it wasn't terrible or anything but it's no where near as good TLA and this isn't nostalgia talking because I recently watched TLA a couple weeks ago. Also I think they spent way too much time with the whole pro bending stuff. | ||
|
Lightwip
United States5497 Posts
| ||
Firebolt145
Lalalaland34503 Posts
On July 04 2012 03:02 Lightwip wrote: The protagonists still have some of the childish attitude (in relation to petty arguments) that I didn't like in TLA. I wish they'd get rid of those, because they really just annoy and add nothing to the story. People keep forgetting it's still a children's cartoon. | ||
|
Lightwip
United States5497 Posts
On July 04 2012 03:47 Firebolt145 wrote: People keep forgetting it's still a children's cartoon. Children's cartoons have no obligation to treat children like idiots. | ||
|
Firebolt145
Lalalaland34503 Posts
| ||
|
Lightwip
United States5497 Posts
| ||
|
MountainDewJunkie
United States10346 Posts
1) The series needs to be longer, too much was crammed in Both points are true! But this was a mini-series. Mini-series are short and move at absurd paces. In exchange for the pace and the higher overall percentage of action/drama/whatever, depth is loss as well as some flow. But I like miniseries. They prevent shows from become total jokes like DBZ (Hello, Buu sagas... and even the cell ones on occasion). Remember how long it took for anything to happen in that show? "I just doomed this planet. It will explode in 5 minutes!" *3 episodes later, planet not yet exploded* Spirit bomb! *3 episodes to power, 2 episodes to hold for no reason, one or 2 to actually attack with* 2) The childishness is too much! I thought there was less of it than in TLA, but these are cartoons, not graphic novels, or those slightly more intense animes they show after 11pm. 3) They ended it all too quickly They did! Yes! But you know how pissed I would be if it were some shitty cliffhanger. EVERY show on TV always build for a really dramatic cliffhanger, they just heap on the "wait till next season" nonsense. Lost, Heroes, Weeds (why do people like this show, by the way?), True Blood (guess what the Mrs. Just LOVES to watch  ). No answers! Just more stuff. My point is, consider the opposite extreme. My fallback point is, see 1)4) Zergneedsfood wrote: The story itself was pretty poorly constructed. The Equalist revolution lives in a vacuum and exists solely for the purpose of existing for a plot. There's no real meat and depth to the revolution, nor is there any depth given to anything else in this story. It's simplistic good guy versus bad guy. ... Fuck, this guy is good. *concedes* I'm sorry, Lightwip, but I don't want this show to be like DBZ in any way shape or form :3 | ||
|
Millitron
United States2611 Posts
On July 03 2012 23:24 Zergneedsfood wrote: The story itself was pretty poorly constructed. The Equalist revolution lives in a vacuum and exists solely for the purpose of existing for a plot. There's no real meat and depth to the revolution, nor is there any depth given to anything else in this story. It's simplistic good guy versus bad guy. Except it isn't simplistic good guy versus bad guy when there is no clear bad guy (Except Tarrlok). The Equalists make some really compelling arguments. I know I think the Equalists were right. Just because we don't know the lead-up to the revolution doesn't mean there is no depth to it. We mostly only see things from Korra's perspective, and she wasn't around to see the beginnings of the movement. On July 04 2012 03:02 Lightwip wrote: The protagonists still have some of the childish attitude (in relation to petty arguments) that I didn't like in TLA. I wish they'd get rid of those, because they really just annoy and add nothing to the story. People in real life, even adults, can be childish and petty at inopportune times. Having characters act that way is just characterization. | ||
|
Zergneedsfood
United States10671 Posts
On July 04 2012 10:38 Millitron wrote: Except it isn't simplistic good guy versus bad guy when there is no clear bad guy (Except Tarrlok). The Equalists make some really compelling arguments. I know I think the Equalists were right. Just because we don't know the lead-up to the revolution doesn't mean there is no depth to it. We mostly only see things from Korra's perspective, and she wasn't around to see the beginnings of the movement. People in real life, even adults, can be childish and petty at inopportune times. Having characters act that way is just characterization. It is, because Amon is just a stock villain. His backstory really isn't that compelling since I've seen it so many times, and his relationship with Tarrlok and his father was kind of brushed over. It's really hard to understand why he ended up hating bending so much, as his change in character was all because hate for his father and love for his brother. In fact, it would've been much better if they had just switched Amon and Tarrlok's positions, because at least it would be more clear that he just didn't like the destruction that bending caused. But some for reason it got tossed onto Tarrlok, probably for poor sympathy reasons. As a direct result of that, it just makes Noatak shallow and unintelligent. The guy wants to get rid of all bending based on the sample size of one person, not to mention that his little brother is a nice guy who doesn't even want to abuse bending in the first place (not wanting to blood bend his brother, not blood bending the wolves). Amon was a much better villain all the way until episode 11, where he got shafted in the finale and turned from a morally ambiguous figure to one that selfishly acts out of revenge. The fact that his goals for a nonbending world is driven by such small personal affairs defeats the entire purpose of rallying his movement around such a "noble" cause. And it's not even that noble either. The point about the Equalists is pretty poorly evidenced. There are few scenes where nonbenders are actually getting owned by benders and in those the damage is nowhere near the proportions of political upheaval and bending genocide. When 10,000 line up in an arena to see the last four Airbenders get their bending removed, that's not equality, that's bigotry and hatred. Take a look at every nonbender that seems to support Amon. They're in nice clothes, probably many of them wear business outfits. Where is the oppression? It's not like socioeconomic conditions go only along the side of nonbenders, as Mako and Bolin are proof that benders have it terribly too, not to mention that Hiroshi Sato's wealth shows that nonbenders can reach high places in society too. In other words, the oppression that the Equalists are trying to advertise as a reason why their movement is legitimate isn't proportional to their actions, nor is there enough in-show evidence that shows that their actions are justified by horrible oppression. Equality is a myth to the Equalists as far as the context of the show goes, and the only reasonable conclusion as a result is that the Equalists are bigots, advertising and exaggerating facts to turn more bigots over to their side. If you don't like that conclusion, good, because I don't either. That's just how vague and poorly constructed the premise of the Equalist movement is. There is literally zero reason for them to exist in this context, and on top of that, any bending antagonism to appear in this era is historically inconsistent with canon and when real antagonism toward bending should have occurred. | ||
|
Millitron
United States2611 Posts
Benders murdered all but one air-nomad. Benders were systematically oppressing and controlling Ba-Singh-Se. Benders burned down Jet's home-town and killed his family. Benders cut the power and arrested all those harmless civilians. Benders bullied store-clerks for 'protection' fees. Benders murdered Asami's mother, and Mako and Bolin's parents Just because some non-benders are successful does not mean there is no oppression. George Washington Carver was an extremely successful African-American botanist, but that doesn't mean black people weren't oppressed in the 1800's. And so what if Amon was inspired by revenge? So what if his horrible father lead him to his beliefs? He very well may have believed every word of what he said. We don't actually know. I prefer to think he did, as having it all be a lie makes for a poor narrative. It isn't important how exactly he came to his beliefs, what matters is that he has them. Real antagonism never occurred before because without shock gloves and mechs, how are you going to fight people who can shoot fire out of their hands? | ||
|
Zergneedsfood
United States10671 Posts
Benders murdered all but one air-nomad. Benders were systematically oppressing and controlling Ba-Singh-Se. Benders burned down Jet's home-town and killed his family. Benders cut the power and arrested all those harmless civilians. Benders bullied store-clerks for 'protection' fees. Benders murdered Asami's mother, and Mako and Bolin's parents Half of those examples are from the previous series, which is why I can't believe the Equalist conflict started at such a random time in bending history. The other half are just small examples that are more or less nonunique than they are actual examples of benders being the sole perpetrator of every crime. So a store clerk, who has property/assets/money is bullied, and that somehow justifies overthrowing a city's government and committing metaphoric genocide on Airbenders? How does murder of three people somehow justify that oppression is a widespread event, especially when it's nonunique? Are we thus assuming that only benders murder? These are small events, not to mention that oppression happened regardless of whether people were benders or not. It's not like every Fire Nation soldier who did terrible things to people in the Earth Kingdom were benders, nor is it 100% sure that people in the triads were all benders too. The fact that these things are ambiguous just means that it's an exaggerated attempt to get people to not like benders, as if bending is the sole reason why atrocities exist. So let me just make it clear again, the Equalist revolution lives in a vacuum, where their response is disproportional to the amount of oppression that's actually shown. There is no reason for there to be such a large following of a radical group like the Equalist with such extreme methodologies if they're only being asked to pay protection fees when they own decent businesses and wear nice clothes. If anything, it's more or less the fault of the story anyway, since metalbending police should have stopped this kind of shenanigans years ago. But again, the movement exists only because the plot needs it, no other reason. Just because some non-benders are successful does not mean there is no oppression. George Washington Carver was an extremely successful African-American botanist, but that doesn't mean black people weren't oppressed in the 1800's. The fact that the "oppression" argument is so widespread, you'd think the creators would show it more to give it some actual juice, but the poor execution didn't do it any justice at all. Not only that, but the fact that Amon being revealed as a bender and undercutting the movement basically devalues any "legitimate" grievances that people had. Not that there were many to begin with. It's not about oppression. It's about there being so little that the case that the Equalists actually have a point is pretty garbage. If they had made things a lot more clear, it'd be fine, but they didn't. You can't even say that "you have to imply it from the show" either, because this message was such a central message that they needed it to make the Equalist movement legitimate and seem like they had a point. They didn't. Therefore, the only reasonable explanation is that the Equalists just exaggerated and are bigots. That then becomes a historical inconsistency and one that doesn't make sense in the current RC environment. Therefore, the movement shouldn't exist. And so what if Amon was inspired by revenge? So what if his horrible father lead him to his beliefs? He very well may have believed every word of what he said. We don't actually know. I prefer to think he did, as having it all be a lie makes for a poor narrative. It isn't important how exactly he came to his beliefs, what matters is that he has them. It just means he's shallow and a whatever character. He's stock and he's overdone. The first ten episodes built him up to be something amazing. The last two were counterintuitive and destroyed it. I explained this already. Think of this way. Amon basically grew selfish and decided that he would overturn bending only because his father did bad things. So he's judging the world based on a crime boss. The fact that he grew up to be such an intelligent and baller villain undercuts this lack of logic that he has in the space we would call a mind. On top of the that, the fact that he did act out of such a random personal reason undercuts the importance of the Equalist movement and invalidates it as nothing more than a group of people following a madman who wants revenge on something dumb. Let's just forget that these people might have grievances that were poorly conveyed by the show, let's just forget that these people are still potentially angry and/or hate benders, because once Amon is gone, the conflict is gone. That's what the finale suggests, and that's why the finale makes Amon just a stock villain. Real antagonism never occurred before because without shock gloves and mechs, how are you going to fight people who can shoot fire out of their hands? Sokka was your average guy and he did it all the time. Hakoda did it all the time. Mai did it all the time. Ty Lee did it all the time. Suki and the Kyoshi warriors did it all the time. Jet and everyone in the Freedom Fighters did this all the time. Plenty of people did this. All the time. | ||
|
Angel_
United States1617 Posts
On July 04 2012 03:47 Firebolt145 wrote: People keep forgetting it's still a children's cartoon. So was batman TAS. So was spiderman. So was Thundercats. None of their characters whined and pissed and moaned and reinforced the idea of being thick-headed to absolutely stupidity. Except for maybe the two children in Thundercats, who literally were like six years old in the show. | ||
|
Millitron
United States2611 Posts
On July 04 2012 12:08 Zergneedsfood wrote: Half of those examples are from the previous series, which is why I can't believe the Equalist conflict started at such a random time in bending history. The other half are just small examples that are more or less nonunique than they are actual examples of benders being the sole perpetrator of every crime. So a store clerk, who has property/assets/money is bullied, and that somehow justifies overthrowing a city's government and committing metaphoric genocide on Airbenders? How does murder of three people somehow justify that oppression is a widespread event, especially when it's nonunique? Are we thus assuming that only benders murder? These are small events, not to mention that oppression happened regardless of whether people were benders or not. It's not like every Fire Nation soldier who did terrible things to people in the Earth Kingdom were benders, nor is it 100% sure that people in the triads were all benders too. The fact that these things are ambiguous just means that it's an exaggerated attempt to get people to not like benders, as if bending is the sole reason why atrocities exist. So let me just make it clear again, the Equalist revolution lives in a vacuum, where their response is disproportional to the amount of oppression that's actually shown. There is no reason for there to be such a large following of a radical group like the Equalist with such extreme methodologies if they're only being asked to pay protection fees when they own decent businesses and wear nice clothes. If anything, it's more or less the fault of the story anyway, since metalbending police should have stopped this kind of shenanigans years ago. But again, the movement exists only because the plot needs it, no other reason. The fact that the "oppression" argument is so widespread, you'd think the creators would show it more to give it some actual juice, but the poor execution didn't do it any justice at all. Not only that, but the fact that Amon being revealed as a bender and undercutting the movement basically devalues any "legitimate" grievances that people had. Not that there were many to begin with. It's not about oppression. It's about there being so little that the case that the Equalists actually have a point is pretty garbage. If they had made things a lot more clear, it'd be fine, but they didn't. You can't even say that "you have to imply it from the show" either, because this message was such a central message that they needed it to make the Equalist movement legitimate and seem like they had a point. They didn't. Therefore, the only reasonable explanation is that the Equalists just exaggerated and are bigots. That then becomes a historical inconsistency and one that doesn't make sense in the current RC environment. Therefore, the movement shouldn't exist. It just means he's shallow and a whatever character. He's stock and he's overdone. The first ten episodes built him up to be something amazing. The last two were counterintuitive and destroyed it. I explained this already. Think of this way. Amon basically grew selfish and decided that he would overturn bending only because his father did bad things. So he's judging the world based on a crime boss. The fact that he grew up to be such an intelligent and baller villain undercuts this lack of logic that he has in the space we would call a mind. On top of the that, the fact that he did act out of such a random personal reason undercuts the importance of the Equalist movement and invalidates it as nothing more than a group of people following a madman who wants revenge on something dumb. Let's just forget that these people might have grievances that were poorly conveyed by the show, let's just forget that these people are still potentially angry and/or hate benders, because once Amon is gone, the conflict is gone. That's what the finale suggests, and that's why the finale makes Amon just a stock villain. Sokka was your average guy and he did it all the time. Hakoda did it all the time. Mai did it all the time. Ty Lee did it all the time. Suki and the Kyoshi warriors did it all the time. Jet and everyone in the Freedom Fighters did this all the time. Plenty of people did this. All the time. We don't have any statistical data to work with here, but perhaps benders really do cause more crime than non-benders. I know most of the crime and corruption we actually see is perpetrated by benders. Tarrlok manipulates the council (possibly under threat of blood bending), Tahno and the Wolfbats cheat in the tournament, the Triads bully shop-owners, and the Chief of Police (not Lin, the other one), is a spineless patsy. Plus, aside from those fancy archers in "The Blue Spirit", do we see ANY non-bender Fire Nation soldiers? Its possible that they do not recruit non-benders, at least not to combat positions. Black people had been oppressed for at least 200 years in the Americas before the Civil War, and at least 300 if you consider the start of the Civil Rights Movement to be the end of oppression. By your logic, it doesn't make sense that it took so long, they should have done something sooner. He didn't hate his father because he was a crime-boss, or because he wanted his sons to continue his nefarious schemes. No, he hated his father because he forced him to blood-bend, which is heavily implied in both series to be truly horrific torture. Forcing a teenager to torture animals, and then even his own brother, is more than enough to mentally scar someone enough for that to be a legitimate motive. Even if you don't consider that enough, how is it any worse than "My parents were killed by a fire-bender"? That's still a "random personal reason". The Non-benders we see in the first series that hold their own against benders only do so because they're extremely skilled, and we only see them succeed against goons. They lose practically every fight against benders where both sides are equally skilled. The Kyoshi Warriors get their asses kicked until Aang saves the day, and again they get their asses kicked in Season 2 by just ONE bender and two non-benders. You simply can't have a massive rebellion without tech, because the only non-benders who stand a chance without tech are the martial arts masters and the badasses, and even they'll lose to the bending masters, or a large enough number of bending goons. | ||
|
Zergneedsfood
United States10671 Posts
We don't have any statistical data to work with here, but perhaps benders really do cause more crime than non-benders. I know most of the crime and corruption we actually see is perpetrated by benders. Tarrlok manipulates the council (possibly under threat of blood bending), Tahno and the Wolfbats cheat in the tournament, the Triads bully shop-owners, and the Chief of Police (not Lin, the other one), is a spineless patsy. Plus, aside from those fancy archers in "The Blue Spirit", do we see ANY non-bender Fire Nation soldiers? Its possible that they do not recruit non-benders, at least not to combat positions. Tarrlok's manipulation is due to the political idiocy of the council, not because he threatened bloodbending. Otherwise, the rest of the council in 108 would've been more surprised. Tahno and the Wolfbats cheating isn't a "crime" as it just is "cheating", and that's not realy oppression. The Triad bullying shop-owners is small and once again disproportionate to the response. The Chief of Police doing pansy things is an aftermath of all these events and didn't do anything but contribute, not cause. And yes, we see plenty of nonbender Fire Nation soldiers. DoBS, Jet, a few of the Rough Rhinos are nonbenders. There's a sizable population of nonbenders. Black people had been oppressed for at least 200 years in the Americas before the Civil War, and at least 300 if you consider the start of the Civil Rights Movement to be the end of oppression. By your logic, it doesn't make sense that it took so long, they should have done something sooner. Difference in magnitude. The scale of oppression that African Americans faced is completely different from the ones that are supposedly felt by people in Republic City, not to mention that they DID do something and TRIED to do something. The fact is that there's a massive difference between a nonbender population that's not enslaved in RC that can actually unite and slaves that are illiterate in English, come from completely different places with not that many commonalities at times, and can't band together because they're tied down in their masters homes. Of course fighting oppression will be difficult. He didn't hate his father because he was a crime-boss, or because he wanted his sons to continue his nefarious schemes. No, he hated his father because he forced him to blood-bend, which is heavily implied in both series to be truly horrific torture. Forcing a teenager to torture animals, and then even his own brother, is more than enough to mentally scar someone enough for that to be a legitimate motive. Even if you don't consider that enough, how is it any worse than "My parents were killed by a fire-bender"? That's still a "random personal reason". I said he judged the world based on a crime boss, and last time I checked, Amon loved bloodbending and became obsessed with the power of it until Tarrlok refused to bloodbend his brother, which was a strange scene and a complete shift in character anyway. And it's not a legitimate motive. The guy literally looks at one person, who he should know (since his father told them that he's Yakone) is the scum of the earth, and decides to just the world's benders on a nonrandom sample size. Terrible judgment and undermines how smart Amon is in the actual series, not to mention that once again....the fact that its personal just makes the movement look illegitimate and futile compared to how "genuine" the concerns of oppression actually are. Result? Equalists are nothing more than bigots. They have no legitimate concerns and lie about the facts to get a message across. If these people were people with reasonable troubles, then they wouldn't be at Amon's feet kissing him as they cheer for Tenzin and his family, who have done nothing wrong, to get their bending removed. The Non-benders we see in the first series that hold their own against benders only do so because they're extremely skilled, and we only see them succeed against goons. They lose practically every fight against benders where both sides are equally skilled. The Kyoshi Warriors get their asses kicked until Aang saves the day, and again they get their asses kicked in Season 2 by just ONE bender and two non-benders. You simply can't have a massive rebellion without tech, because the only non-benders who stand a chance without tech are the martial arts masters and the badasses, and even they'll lose to the bending masters, or a large enough number of bending goons. Sokka wasn't extremely skilled until he met Piandao. Ty Lee and Mai beat Katara and Sokka pretty handily and on a consistent basis, not to mention that Mai beat plenty of Firebenders in The Boiling Rock, the highest security prison in the Fire Nation. Everyone held their own against Dai Li agents in Lake Laogai, including Jet and Longshot. You can't really say these people who are only in their teens are masters, and regardless, there have been plenty of times where nonbenders hold their own. Why else would Hakoda and an army of Water Tribe warriors (who are not benders) able to sail and survive against the Fire Nation fleets? It's because they actually stood a chance. And this is where all the logic just becomes questionable. It's like as if fighting against "oppression" requires a rebellion and use of violence. The fact of the matter is that the oppression isn't even that bad and people are resorting to heavy uses of violence, undermining the government, kidnappings, murder, and civilian bombings instead of actually thinking there's a reasonable way of talking through the conflict. Amon's radical methods shouldn't even be appropriate for the time, era, and circumstances that exist in Republic City. | ||
|
Saurabhinator
Australia347 Posts
The romance pacing was a bit fast and ending was a little deus ex machina but i still loved it. | ||
|
tauon
Australia1278 Posts
| ||
|
Shock710
Australia6097 Posts
The idea of the spirit world fighting the new machine like world with the Avatar trying to keep balance would have been cool imo, sure bloodbending was cool.....but....i really really didnt want Amons ability to be related to bloodbending..T_T and i orginally thought cause it was in 2 seasons, and Korra already had fire,water,earth, it would continue with seasons being air, and then SPIRIT it might still be that...but Korra removing the bending-block with Avatar state....seems to screw that so can she just go into avatar by will now? (she did for removing the block, so i dont see why she wouldnt be able to do it for fighting) Might i also add she didnt look as badass in the avatar state without lit-up tats, but i guess thats to be expected. Another note with the Ko thing, is Korra being a water tribe bender avatar i thought she would have a strong connection to the past water avatar (tho this didnt happen in TLA) because Ko took his wifes face, so there would be a past hatred between them | ||
|
Arcanefrost
Belgium1257 Posts
 | ||
|
Zooper31
United States5713 Posts
| ||
| ||
