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+ Show Spoiler +One thing that I was confused about is the opening scene where the Engineer drinks the that thing and falls off the waterfall.
Was that on earth or on the planet, and what exactly was he doing? It seemed too late (If I remember correctly they said 2080s or something) to be them creating humans. Was that a signal to kill everyone on earth?
EDIT: Sorry about the spoilers. Completely forgot My apologies if I ruined your movie.
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On June 10 2012 01:50 moltenlead wrote: One thing that I was confused about is the opening scene where the Engineer drinks the that thing and falls off the waterfall.
Was that on earth or on the planet, and what exactly was he doing? It seemed too late (If I remember correctly they said 2080s or something) to be them creating humans. Was that a signal to kill everyone on earth?
I guess we've stopped spoiler tagging?
Ridley Scott has this to say about the scene: 'That could be a planet anywhere. All he’s doing is acting as a gardener in space. And the plant life, in fact, is the disintegration of himself. If you parallel that idea with other sacrificial elements in history – which are clearly illustrated with the Mayans and the Incas – he would live for one year as a prince, and at the end of that year, he would be taken and donated to the gods in hopes of improving what might happen next year, be it with crops or weather, etcetera.'
http://cavalorn.livejournal.com/584135.html
More Jesus/bible stuff...
The planet is LV223...Leviticus 22:3
"Say to them: 'For the generations to come, if any of your descendants is ceremonially unclean and yet comes near the sacred offerings that the Israelites consecrate to the LORD, that person must be cut off from my presence. I am the LORD.
You can tell someone who wrote Lost also worked on this -.-
oh, and the movie takes place during christmas
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So something that just occurred to me, the Engineers technology is all biological, from the green sludge on the wall that is used to activate the runes to the buttons on the ship to the ship itself (the ship has a spine/ribs). It seems that they were a "pure" race whose purpose was to create life for different purposes and use this to advance their race. Then when awakened the Engineer seems enthralled that humans came but the first thing he sees when he touches the one talking to him is a robot where the humans have created artificial life going against everything his race stood for.
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On June 10 2012 00:40 Klipsys wrote:I doubt anyone will read all of this. This movie was beyond fantastic. There are so many layers to it, it's simply spectacular. Anyone who doesn’t understand all of the symbolism and thematic elements involved is simply ignorant and wanted to see a shitty action movie. http://cavalorn.livejournal.com/584135.html#cutid1
Wow, it had symbolism! And themes! I guess I must have been wrong about it being one of the worst movies I've ever seen and the product of a superficial, pretentious mind. The theme of Jesus being an alien is especially interesting for some reason.
On June 10 2012 00:15 StatixEx wrote:+ Show Spoiler + i listen to you kids . . and im only 30, going on about the alien films, my dad being the great man he is let me watch 18 rated films when i was quite young . . (not sure if this is a bad thing or not but im really REALLY glad he did at times like this!) but i remember watching alien the first time round . . i didnt think it was that good . . . not enough happened in it. I thought the same with The Thing. Indiana jones and the ark, same. . . i was just too young to see it.
But then i got into secondary school (11) and rewatched them and remember re seeing the film with more a understanding mind . . Still i concluded not much happens in them but i was completely entertained . . . why? Suspense. My mind was making up so much more.
Alien had it beautifully crafted. you never got to see the alien for nearly 3/4 of the film. aliens went balls to the wall fucking aliens everywhere.
So ive watched all the aliens as it holds a child hood place, 3 was ok, 4 was shit avp was ok but shit, avp2 was better but still shit, prometheus i thought was good.
We expect so much more these days, it will never go back to waw special effects ur suprised with, were playing better effects in video games. anyway, complete off the wall shit this. Prometheus. Good. Love the ending sequence hope this is a 3 part where it takes us up to the 2100;s and shows us the further evolution of the species.
So good, even 30 year olds like it. I must be a teenager or something. Better go back and see it again so I can appreciate it.
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managed to read that while at work today, and holy shit is it insightful... really REALLY excited to see the making-off now!
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Wtf, how did I miss some of that stuff?
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On June 10 2012 06:56 Pyskee wrote:Wtf, how did I miss some of that stuff?
Well, it's a movie, not a book, so you usually don't have much time to think before something else happens which re-stimulates you and consumes your attention. That's why the more you watch a movie, the more you understand it.
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watched it this morning in 3d. i thought iw as amazing. best movie ive seen in months.
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Was unable to suspend my disbelief because of how stupid and unprofessional the scientists were. I spent the first half of the movie just saying over and over in my head "a real scientist wouldn't do it that way".
They see multiple cave-paintings of six dots and assume not only that the dots must be a map to God (as it were) but that God actually wants to talk to them. Even though there's really no reason provided at all to think anything of it other than that it is a strange coincidence.
The whole thing seemed contrived and lazy.
Though the actiony parts of the second half were kind of enjoyable I suppose.
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oh man, i wanted this to be so good, but it failed me so hard:
+ Show Spoiler +First problem: these people get onto a ship going to an unknown planet with a bunch of people they've never met before, for a guy they've never met, for reasons they haven't been told. who the fuck would ever sign on for that mission? That whole orientation scene in the beginning was just really lazy exposition. also them just jumping off the ship and acting like being on an alien planet is just another day at the office was ridiculous. taking off their helmets because five seconds ago the creepy android who obviously has his own agenda said that the air was breathable? c'mon, are these scientists or children?
"But they had scanners that told them there were no microbes!"
uh... they are looking for alien life. how the fuck do they know that one huff of breath from their filthy Earthling mouths with their filthy Earthling germs and diseases isn't going to completely destroy any potential alien species they meet? or did these scientists that spent trillions of dollars and years of their lives to come to find these aliens not even think about that? it takes a college dropout with an IQ just below 99 (me) to figure out that you should probably not just go pissing in the primordial ooze of another planet, but these master scientists can't figure that out?
Second problem: if you think about it, the "fact" that the aliens created humans had no purpose in the story. it was just thrown in there to... i don't know why. maybe to introduce some "deep questions" but they didn't really pursue any of those deep questions at all so i don't get why they didn't just make them aliens that were unrelated to humanity.
Third problem: the geologist guy is the one who made the fucking probes that make the map and he gets lost? wtf? not only that, but they are freaking out whenever anyone touches one of the alien bodies or jars, and when the captain tells them that he's picking up a life-form, they freak out and run away from it. but then they see a nasty, viper looking thing that is hissing and snapping at them and the BIOLOGIST decides that he's just gonna keep trying to pet it? i wouldn't pet a strange dog that was snapping and hissing at me, much less a NASTY looking alien creature that looks exactly like a fucking cobra. why were these two so effing retarded?
and did you notice that they made these two guys the 1) cowards who run away, 2) doubters who are constantly telling everyone to be more careful, 3) assholes to the main characters. so are we supposed to care when these guys die, or are we supposed to be happy? when are film writers and directors going to learn that if you make the guy a stereotypical douche who gets killed first, the audience is going to stop caring when that guy gets killed first. especially when he gets killed in the most ridiculous way ever. they should have had some balls and made these the only two survivors. that would have been unexpected.
also, everyone else on the ship is just like: "oh well, whatever. they're stuck in there and we're getting signs of alien life (the whole reason we are here)? dum de dum de dum, let's all go have sex!"
Fourth problem: this David android makes no sense at all. i get that he's testing this substance and the conversation with the guy "i would do anything and everything" means to him that he should do the same, but that still makes no sense. this old guy is on board, right, and wants to get immortality from these engineers? so why would he program his personal android to bring a potentially deadly substance on the ship and then spread it around? how the fck does the android know that he's not condemning everyone on the ship to death by microbe by even touching the thing? stupid! and that one chick said in the beginning:
"you don't make contact, you don't bring anything back, you do nothing but report to me"
but then she is completely fine with that girl bringing a friggin alien head on the ship? wut? and they are operating on it with no masks... omg i want to puke at how stupid that is. that would be like a forensic scientist taking a huge shit on the dead body before he carefully places his own sperm all over it and then carefully destroys any possible DNA from the actual killer...
Fifth problem: the old guy being on the ship was obvious and unnecessary. his character was unnecessary to the plot. in fact, his whole storyline should have been cut along with the "we come from alien engineering" storyline. they should have cut his plot line and character and spent more time developing the android, because he desperately needed it.
Sixth problem: this chick knocks over these two people, and then goes into the surgery compartment thing, which is built for that old guy, and rips an alien baby out of her own stomach, and no one even bats an eye or mentions it ever again. they don't even react to it, or clean up the surgery thing which is the whole point of them being there: the old guy wants immortality. why would he not even wonder about wether his surgery thing is contaminated now, or has a thirteen foot long alien baby thing inside of it? this was both the best and worst part about this movie. the scene with her in the surgery thing was intense, disgusting, and perfect in every way. everything after was awful. she just walks in and i think they literally have someone just nod at her in acknowledgement. she's covered in blood with huge stitches across her stomach and they are just like "oh, you wanted to come along to? suit up then, girl!"
Seventh problem: this alien thing just rofl-stomps them, which leads me to two problems: 1) no one is going to spend over a trillion dollars on bringing a crew of people across the galaxy and not have some kind of security team to protect their assets and crew. 2) they know that something catastrophic went down, they know that these aliens are not necessarily nice or kind, and yet they bring no weapons, and act as though its a total surprise that the alien is hostile.
Eight problem: the entire scene where she barely escapes from the ship before it crashes into the other ship? useless because two seconds later she gets crushed in the stupidest way possible. such a crappy and lazy ending for a character that was interesting despite every attempt to make her as generic and cliched as possible. the horrible thing is that the other girl gets away by rolling once, and then by falling next to a tiny rock that somehow stops the trillion-ton ship from crushing her. it takes her all of two seconds to wiggle out from underneath it. ugh...
Ninth problem: the whole point of the alien movies always seemed to me to be the overriding fear that someone would get cocky and bring the aliens to Earth. the idea is that no matter how good or careful, you can't control the aliens, so bringing them to Earth would basically be the death of humanity. so these people are always trying to survive in some hostile situation where they are stuck, but the other fear is the idea that if they do escape and go home they might bring back the aliens with them. this story had none of that. for one, the aliens never even showed up until the end, for another, she isn't even going toward Earth. she's going toward their home planet.
these weren't the only problems, but they were the biggest ones, in my opinion. i liked the movie, it was enjoyable, but it was also as generic a sci-fi/horror as you could possibly get. every single character in it was an archetype of Alien movies, from the creepy android to the corporate exec. with unclear motives. it started asking "big questions" but never finished them, or even made the slightest bit of effort to answer them. the character's motivations were not only unclear but contradictory, the situations they found themselves in were ridiculous (the scene with the guy who turns into super-zombie was so bad), and you could predict every new plot development before you even walked into the theater. just list out every sci-fi cliche you can think of and you're ninety-percent likely to have laid out the basic story for Prometheus.
i love Ridley Scott, but this movie was a big disappointment
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United States41962 Posts
I didn't get the motives of a single character there and I'm pretty sure the characters didn't either, including their own motives.
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On June 10 2012 07:57 KwarK wrote: I didn't get the motives of a single character there and I'm pretty sure the characters didn't either, including their own motives.
Trying to answer why they are/were alive.
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On June 10 2012 07:42 bre1010 wrote: Was unable to suspend my disbelief because of how stupid and unprofessional the scientists were. I spent the first half of the movie just saying over and over in my head "a real scientist wouldn't do it that way".
They see multiple cave-paintings of six dots and assume not only that the dots must be a map to God (as it were) but that God actually wants to talk to them. Even though there's really no reason provided at all to think anything of it other than that it is a strange coincidence.
The whole thing seemed contrived and lazy.
Though the actiony parts of the second half were kind of enjoyable I suppose. to be fair, the cave drawings showed people pointing up at the star cluster. i didnt find it a large leap to believe that they wanted to be found eventually. i would say it is also human nature to want to discover the answer to a mystery. regardless of whether the aliens wanted to be found or not, humans would go looking for them i think.
that said, films often require a suspension of disbelief. you have to give something to get anything out. i could go into any movie and pick it apart for its inaccuracies or plot holes. instead i choose to invest in what the filmmakers are offering, to trust that they are not going to waste my time and effort. almost all movies these days are shitty explosions that offer no story or character development, prometheus tried to harken back to the sci fi movies of past decades, and for that alone, i think it is worthy of praise.
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On June 10 2012 07:57 sc2superfan101 wrote:oh man, i wanted this to be so good, but it failed me so hard: + Show Spoiler +First problem: these people get onto a ship going to an unknown planet with a bunch of people they've never met before, for a guy they've never met, for reasons they haven't been told. who the fuck would ever sign on for that mission? That whole orientation scene in the beginning was just really lazy exposition. also them just jumping off the ship and acting like being on an alien planet is just another day at the office was ridiculous. taking off their helmets because five seconds ago the creepy android who obviously has his own agenda said that the air was breathable? c'mon, are these scientists or children?
"But they had scanners that told them there were no microbes!"
uh... they are looking for alien life. how the fuck do they know that one huff of breath from their filthy Earthling mouths with their filthy Earthling germs and diseases isn't going to completely destroy any potential alien species they meet? or did these scientists that spent trillions of dollars and years of their lives to come to find these aliens not even think about that? it takes a college dropout with an IQ just below 99 (me) to figure out that you should probably not just go pissing in the primordial ooze of another planet, but these master scientists can't figure that out?
Second problem: if you think about it, the "fact" that the aliens created humans had no purpose in the story. it was just thrown in there to... i don't know why. maybe to introduce some "deep questions" but they didn't really pursue any of those deep questions at all so i don't get why they didn't just make them aliens that were unrelated to humanity.
Third problem: the geologist guy is the one who made the fucking probes that make the map and he gets lost? wtf? not only that, but they are freaking out whenever anyone touches one of the alien bodies or jars, and when the captain tells them that he's picking up a life-form, they freak out and run away from it. but then they see a nasty, viper looking thing that is hissing and snapping at them and the BIOLOGIST decides that he's just gonna keep trying to pet it? i wouldn't pet a strange dog that was snapping and hissing at me, much less a NASTY looking alien creature that looks exactly like a fucking cobra. why were these two so effing retarded?
and did you notice that they made these two guys the 1) cowards who run away, 2) doubters who are constantly telling everyone to be more careful, 3) assholes to the main characters. so are we supposed to care when these guys die, or are we supposed to be happy? when are film writers and directors going to learn that if you make the guy a stereotypical douche who gets killed first, the audience is going to stop caring when that guy gets killed first. especially when he gets killed in the most ridiculous way ever. they should have had some balls and made these the only two survivors. that would have been unexpected.
also, everyone else on the ship is just like: "oh well, whatever. they're stuck in there and we're getting signs of alien life (the whole reason we are here)? dum de dum de dum, let's all go have sex!"
Fourth problem: this David android makes no sense at all. i get that he's testing this substance and the conversation with the guy "i would do anything and everything" means to him that he should do the same, but that still makes no sense. this old guy is on board, right, and wants to get immortality from these engineers? so why would he program his personal android to bring a potentially deadly substance on the ship and then spread it around? how the fck does the android know that he's not condemning everyone on the ship to death by microbe by even touching the thing? stupid! and that one chick said in the beginning:
"you don't make contact, you don't bring anything back, you do nothing but report to me"
but then she is completely fine with that girl bringing a friggin alien head on the ship? wut?
Fifth problem: the old guy being on the ship was obvious and unnecessary. his character was unnecessary to the plot. in fact, his whole storyline should have been cut along with the "we come from alien engineering" storyline. they should have cut his plot line and character and spent more time developing the android, because he desperately needed it.
Sixth problem: this chick knocks over these two people, and then goes into the surgery compartment thing, which is built for that old guy, and rips an alien baby out of her own stomach, and no one even bats an eye or mentions it ever again. they don't even react to it, or clean up the surgery thing which is the whole point of them being there: the old guy wants immortality. why would he not even wonder about wether his surgery thing is contaminated now, or has a thirteen foot long alien baby thing inside of it? this was both the best and worst part about this movie. the scene with her in the surgery thing was intense, disgusting, and perfect in every way. everything after was awful. she just walks in and i think they literally have someone just nod at her in acknowledgement. she's covered in blood with huge stitches across her stomach and they are just like "oh, you wanted to come along to? suit up then, girl!"
Seventh problem: this alien thing just rofl-stomps them, which leads me to two problems: 1) no one is going to spend over a trillion dollars on bringing a crew of people across the galaxy and not have some kind of security team to protect their assets and crew. 2) they know that something catastrophic went down, they know that these aliens are not necessarily nice or kind, and yet they bring no weapons, and act as though its a total surprise that the alien is hostile.
Eight problem: the entire scene where she barely escapes from the ship before it crashes into the other ship? useless because two seconds later she gets crushed in the stupidest way possible. such a crappy and lazy ending for a character that was interesting despite every attempt to make her as generic and cliched as possible. the horrible thing is that the other girl gets away by rolling once, and then by falling next to a tiny rock that somehow stops the trillion-ton ship from crushing her. it takes her all of two seconds to wiggle out from underneath it. ugh...
Ninth problem: the whole point of the alien movies always seemed to me to be the overriding fear that someone would get cocky and bring the aliens to Earth. the idea is that no matter how good or careful, you can't control the aliens, so bringing them to Earth would basically be the death of humanity. so these people are always trying to survive in some hostile situation where they are stuck, but the other fear is the idea that if they do escape and go home they might bring back the aliens with them. this story had none of that. for one, the aliens never even showed up until the end, for another, she isn't even going toward Earth. she's going toward their home planet.
these weren't the only problems, but they were the biggest ones, in my opinion. i liked the movie, it was enjoyable, but it was also as generic a sci-fi/horror as you could possibly get. every single character in it was an archetype of Alien movies, from the creepy android to the corporate exec. with unclear motives. it started asking "big questions" but never finished them, or even made the slightest bit of effort to answer them. the character's motivations were not only unclear but contradictory, the situations they found themselves in were ridiculous (the scene with the guy who turns into super-zombie was so bad), and you could predict every new plot development before you even walked into the theater. just list out every sci-fi cliche you can think of and you're ninety-percent likely to have laid out the basic story for Prometheus.
i love Ridley Scott, but this movie was a big disappointment
I already answered some of these 'problems' in this post: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=289534¤tpage=31#616
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On June 10 2012 07:57 KwarK wrote: I didn't get the motives of a single character there and I'm pretty sure the characters didn't either, including their own motives.
Pieces of cardboard don't have motives.
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On June 10 2012 07:16 FeUerFlieGe wrote:Well, it's a movie, not a book, so you usually don't have much time to think before something else happens which re-stimulates you and consumes your attention. That's why the more you watch a movie, the more you understand it. Nothing wrong there, just factual differences
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On June 09 2012 15:55 ELA wrote: Q: Why did the engineers create mankind? I feel like that's the whole point/morale of the story - Why were we created? What is our purpose? This point is made very clear with the discussions the Robot-man has with one of the crew members. "Why did mankind create me?" - "Because we could." - "Wouldn't you be disappointed if your own creators/engineers gave you the same answer?". The point, to me at least is that it is not our defined purpose that is the meaning of life, it is the strive towards that answer, not the answer itself that defines our purpose... Ending dialogue supports this as well, when faced with the desire of the engineers to kill humans, it is simply not accepted "I'm still chasing..." Im not sure my english is good enough to explain, hope you get the point. that's the problem, the android gives him the answer and then that's it. no more questions about the origins, it's alien killing time. which is like, ok, then why waste a half-hour setting up these questions if they are going to get completely overridden in the last half of the movie by really generic alien violence? it's not even like they leave it open, or keep it vague so we can inject our own interpretation. they just ask the question, give a half-ass answer that literally was: "there is no answer" and then never attempted to discuss or show it again. they set up this whole storyline with the android being more than just a machine, maybe having his own motives and feelings, but then they go nowhere with it.
Q: Why did the engineers decide to destroy/infest mankind? Maybe that was the reason for our creation in the first place, to be lab rats in their experiments with creating the parasites/aliens. Again we do not know for absolute certain, if we knew, what would be the point of continuing the chase for answers? i actually didn't care about the answer to this question, because i thought it was a bad twist. a much better and more streamlined plot would have simply had the engineers be a species that had been wiped out somehow by the aliens. having us learn that they built the aliens to destroy earth just takes a lot of the mystery and fear out of the aliens and the engineers.
Q: Where did they get the specimens in the jars they were transporting, did they make them? If so, why? Again, there could be thousands of explanations to as to why they created these aliens/specimens; the most obvious one would be: because they could. which is a bad answer. there is nothing philosophically intriguing about "because I could"
i mean, i understand where you're coming from, but i just did not agree at all with what they did with this movie.
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On June 10 2012 08:12 sc2superfan101 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2012 15:55 ELA wrote: Q: Why did the engineers create mankind? I feel like that's the whole point/morale of the story - Why were we created? What is our purpose? This point is made very clear with the discussions the Robot-man has with one of the crew members. "Why did mankind create me?" - "Because we could." - "Wouldn't you be disappointed if your own creators/engineers gave you the same answer?". The point, to me at least is that it is not our defined purpose that is the meaning of life, it is the strive towards that answer, not the answer itself that defines our purpose... Ending dialogue supports this as well, when faced with the desire of the engineers to kill humans, it is simply not accepted "I'm still chasing..." Im not sure my english is good enough to explain, hope you get the point. that's the problem, the android gives him the answer and then that's it. no more questions about the origins, it's alien killing time. which is like, ok, then why waste a half-hour setting up these questions if they are going to get completely overridden in the last half of the movie by really generic alien violence? it's not even like they leave it open, or keep it vague so we can inject our own interpretation. they just ask the question, give a half-ass answer that literally was: "there is no answer" and then never attempted to discuss or show it again. they set up this whole storyline with the android being more than just a machine, maybe having his own motives and feelings, but then they go nowhere with it. Show nested quote +Q: Why did the engineers decide to destroy/infest mankind? Maybe that was the reason for our creation in the first place, to be lab rats in their experiments with creating the parasites/aliens. Again we do not know for absolute certain, if we knew, what would be the point of continuing the chase for answers? i actually didn't care about the answer to this question, because i thought it was a bad twist. a much better and more streamlined plot would have simply had the engineers be a species that had been wiped out somehow by the aliens. having us learn that they built the aliens to destroy earth just takes a lot of the mystery and fear out of the aliens and the engineers. Show nested quote +Q: Where did they get the specimens in the jars they were transporting, did they make them? If so, why? Again, there could be thousands of explanations to as to why they created these aliens/specimens; the most obvious one would be: because they could. which is a bad answer. there is nothing philosophically intriguing about "because I could" i mean, i understand where you're coming from, but i just did not agree at all with what they did with this movie.
You realize, that you are calling the problem, the meaning of life, the greatest philosophical question ever posed by mankind, meaningless? This is something that matters to a great amount of people, hence we have religions as well as wide branches of science to give us meaning and purpose. I'm going to walk the plank here, and state that this oppinion is super-subjective, and I'm actually not certain that you are being completely honest when you say that you think that it's a dumb question to raise. :-)
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On June 10 2012 08:12 sc2superfan101 wrote: which is a bad answer. there is nothing philosophically intriguing about "because I could"
But doesn't your reaction illustrate the point beautifully?
'Being created' does not necessarily imply 'having a purpose', and certainly not necessarily a purpose we would recognise as noble or important.
Many people like the idea that we were created because they think that implies we have a purpose - that our lives are automatically invested with meaning. I'd say the idea that we might one day meet our maker and still be left responsible for deciding our own purpose in life is pretty intriguing
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