SPOILER WARNING If you only watch the show, this thread will spoil you of future events in HBO's Game of Thrones. Thread contains discussion of all books of the series A Song of Ice and Fire Click Here for the spoiler-free thread.
On May 24 2013 05:44 ZasZ. wrote: Meanwhile Sansa is safe, learning the game from one of the best players (at least in the books he is), Arya is a badass assassin, and Bran is becoming a greenseer. One could argue that Jon is in a rough position, but general consensus seems to be that he can't stay dead and will play a larger role than any of them in the long run.
And everybody forgets about Rickon. It will be GRRM-like to do something with him completely unexpected (GO Davos!).
I remember reading the Catelyn chapter before they arive to Walder Frey and thinking GRRM was on top of his game.
"They heard the Green Fork before they saw it, an endless susurrus, like the growl of some great beast. The river was a boiling torrent, half again as wide as it had been last year, when Robb had divided his army here and vowed to take a Frey to bride as the price of his crossing. He needed Lord Walder and his bridge then, and he needs them even more now. Catelyn’s heart was full of misgivings as she watched the murky green waters swirl past.There is no way we will ford this, nor swim across, and it could be a moon’s turn before these waters fall again.
As they neared the Twins, Robb donned his crown and summoned Catelyn and Edmure to ride beside him. Ser Raynald Westerling bore his banner, the direwolf of Stark on its ice-white field.
The gatehouse towers emerged from the rain like ghosts, hazy grey apparitions that grew more solid the closer they rode. The Frey stronghold was not one castle but two; mirror images in wet stone standing on opposite sides of the water, linked by a great arched bridge. From the center of its span rose the Water Tower, the river running straight and swift below. Channels had been cut from the banks, to form moats that made each twin an island. The rains had turned the moats to shallow lakes.
Across the turbulent waters, Catelyn could see several thousand men encamped around the eastern castle, their banners hanging like so many drowned cats from the lances outside their tents. The rain made it impossible to distinguish colors and devices. Most were grey, it seemed to her, though beneath such skies the whole world seemed grey." So vivid and alive. You can hear the rain, imagine the auburn Tully hair sticking to their heads. The tired soldiers following their king through the grey lands. Being oblivious to what's to come. I REALLY hope they do this scene right
On May 24 2013 07:51 tshi wrote: I'm going to watch the episode with a few people who are non-book readers, too! I have my empty jar of human tears ready and a UMADBRO shirt too.
I've been spoiling it around my school & city with little pieces of paper stuck to random objects already, but it'll be fun to see people's reactions when it happens. 8D
Are you going to the other thread and innocently predicting the RW, too?
On May 24 2013 03:07 andrewlt wrote: I can't wait to read message boards on June 3. Should be fun.
I wish we were allowed to tell the the folks in the other thread that "It gets better" after episode 9. Those poor souls won't know what hit them.
It doesn't get better though. That is one of the great things about it.
Well, I guess people can cheer when Joff dies and that might count as a little blip of "better".
Do you think that'll happen in episode 10 or sometimes in season 4? Just curious. I'm thinking they may be cruel and make us wait for another season.
I think it will be season 4. It will have to be early.
On the other hand, Joff being dead in episode 10 might be the silver lining they think that they need to give the show watchers. I do not see it based on the preview summaries though.
I also really do not want them to cut Dorne. Besides Dorne being good, I do not think they should because they need the content in order to stick to >1 season:1 book and keep *behind George. If they kill Joff this season then it seems they cut Oberyn...and that bodes very poorly.
On May 24 2013 07:51 tshi wrote: I've been spoiling it around my school & city with little pieces of paper stuck to random objects already, but it'll be fun to see people's reactions when it happens. 8D
Wow, you're a real hero. I wish I was as cool as you.
On May 24 2013 07:51 tshi wrote: I've been spoiling it around my school & city with little pieces of paper stuck to random objects already, but it'll be fun to see people's reactions when it happens. 8D
why the hell
is ruining peoples entertainment like a hip new thing now or did we always do this
On May 24 2013 07:51 tshi wrote: I'm going to watch the episode with a few people who are non-book readers, too! I have my empty jar of human tears ready and a UMADBRO shirt too.
I've been spoiling it around my school & city with little pieces of paper stuck to random objects already, but it'll be fun to see people's reactions when it happens. 8D
User was temp banned for this post.
Temp banned for a RL transgression. That might be a first.
On May 24 2013 07:51 tshi wrote: I'm going to watch the episode with a few people who are non-book readers, too! I have my empty jar of human tears ready and a UMADBRO shirt too.
I've been spoiling it around my school & city with little pieces of paper stuck to random objects already, but it'll be fun to see people's reactions when it happens. 8D
User was temp banned for this post.
Temp banned for a RL transgression. That might be a first.
And I like it. :D
People who are that edgy have no business owning any form of electric device ;p
On May 24 2013 07:51 tshi wrote: I'm going to watch the episode with a few people who are non-book readers, too! I have my empty jar of human tears ready and a UMADBRO shirt too.
I've been spoiling it around my school & city with little pieces of paper stuck to random objects already, but it'll be fun to see people's reactions when it happens. 8D
User was temp banned for this post.
Temp banned for a RL transgression. That might be a first.
And I like it. :D
Hahaha, Kwark with that glorious banhammer.
I definitely approve, that's some douchy (sp?) stuff on his part.
On May 24 2013 07:51 tshi wrote: I've been spoiling it around my school & city with little pieces of paper stuck to random objects already, but it'll be fun to see people's reactions when it happens. 8D
why the hell
is ruining peoples entertainment like a hip new thing now or did we always do this
A lot of people really don't care about spoilers. In fact before this season i was unaware of how much people cared about such things.
Maybe people spoil like that because they like having power. Maybe they hate the way people try to protect themselves from spoilers and want to punish them. Maybe some people are dicks.
The Gendry stuff feels weird and a little silly. I'm a bit concerned about cercie losing her shit already and there being no kettleback's.I'm not convinced that show littlefinger has to be so obvious with his plans for the viewers to get it. In the books littlefinger anticipates how others will behave and influences things to his favor behind the scenes, It was really jarring to see him meet sansa in public and offer to ship her away from king's landing . I feel really sorry for show viewers once we reach AFFC/ADWD and Olenna and Tywin are gone, they really seem to love them and without them, tyrion, varys, joffrey and littlefinger I can't help but think that king's landing stuff will drag on. At least they will get to see plenty of action in meeren and books 4+5 will only take 3+ series.
Looking back at the Robb stuff i really wish they would have spent less time on his talisa(?) and more time on his bannermen. It's was not a realistic expectation of mine but if they had fleshed out the smalljon or dacey mormont a little seeing them die could have much more of an impact. Fleshing out those characters would also present Robb as more of a capable military leader rather than a selfish young fool that ignores the counsel of those that serve him.
That said show is brilliant as ever and i'm going to need a new highlight for my week (too) soon.
On May 23 2013 20:40 KwarK wrote: They have a load of dragon bones like the skulls of the great dragons kept under the red keep. I believe they've been treated as regular bones. Unless "because magic" becomes involved I think there's no reason to assume Valyrian steel is anything other than Damascus steel, just a lost craft.
It is not Damascus steel because Westerosi smiths are able to reforge Valyrian steel but not create it from scratch. That means Valyrian steel keeps its qualities when reforged. Damascus steel wouldn't.
Tobho Mott (the guy Gendry apprecticed under) is the only known person in all of Westeros that can reforge Valyrian Steel because he knows some of the magic involved.
Sounds strange however when you consider that he may be a Faceless Man, it isn't that strange
Is there any credible reason to suspect Mott is a FM?
Next all of the old nights watchmen who had been at the Nightfort will be declared faceless men. They had a weirwood door!
The claim that magic is involved in reforging Valyrian steel is thin. It is probably just the smiths who know the trick trying to talk it up. A "get the forge super hot using _____ trick" spell, much like Varys' secret hidden door counterweight "spell". The Citadel does some work with Valyrian steel and we all know their stance on the very existence of magic.
On May 23 2013 20:40 KwarK wrote: They have a load of dragon bones like the skulls of the great dragons kept under the red keep. I believe they've been treated as regular bones. Unless "because magic" becomes involved I think there's no reason to assume Valyrian steel is anything other than Damascus steel, just a lost craft.
It is not Damascus steel because Westerosi smiths are able to reforge Valyrian steel but not create it from scratch. That means Valyrian steel keeps its qualities when reforged. Damascus steel wouldn't.
Tobho Mott (the guy Gendry apprecticed under) is the only known person in all of Westeros that can reforge Valyrian Steel because he knows some of the magic involved.
Sounds strange however when you consider that he may be a Faceless Man, it isn't that strange
On May 24 2013 14:56 Irrelevant Label wrote: Is there any credible reason to suspect Mott is a FM?
Next all of the old nights watchmen who had been at the Nightfort will be declared faceless men. They had a weirwood door!
The claim that magic is involved in reforging Valyrian steel is thin. It is probably just the smiths who know the trick trying to talk it up. A "get the forge super hot using _____ trick" spell, much like Varys' secret hidden door counterweight "spell". The Citadel does some work with Valyrian steel and we all know their stance on the very existence of magic.
Your attempts to defuse the theory is cute, if not lacking in foresight. The Nightfort will have it because it's part of the North and it was developed primarily by Northmen who follow the Old Gods, it does not take a stretch of imagination to justify any weirwood doors in the north
Did you forget that his doors are not only weirwood but ebony as well? Coincidentally do you remember any other doors in all aSoIaF that are both ebony and weirwood?
And keep in mind Arya has to come back to Westeros somehow eventually, she can't stay in Braavos for the rest of the series. What is a more convenient way for her to get back?
So with that in mind, if Tobho Mott is a Faceless Man, is it that hard for him to know some real magics? The alchemists know magic as well, that's how they made the wildfire and even they remarked on the rebirth of dragons.
But look, I'll play your game. Maybe Tobho Mott's gates may coincidentally be the same as the Faceless Men's temple and it's coincidence that he can reforge valyrian steel, a blade that's requires magic in its forging. As we all know, aSoIaF is full of coincidences like that
On May 24 2013 03:07 andrewlt wrote: I can't wait to read message boards on June 3. Should be fun.
I wish we were allowed to tell the the folks in the other thread that "It gets better" after episode 9. Those poor souls won't know what hit them.
It doesn't get better though. That is one of the great things about it.
Well, I guess people can cheer when Joff dies and that might count as a little blip of "better".
Do you think that'll happen in episode 10 or sometimes in season 4? Just curious. I'm thinking they may be cruel and make us wait for another season.
I think it will be season 4. It will have to be early.
On the other hand, Joff being dead in episode 10 might be the silver lining they think that they need to give the show watchers. I do not see it based on the preview summaries though.
I also really do not want them to cut Dorne. Besides Dorne being good, I do not think they should because they need the content in order to stick to >1 season:1 book and keep *behind George. If they kill Joff this season then it seems they cut Oberyn...and that bodes very poorly.
I am so glad that you are wrong on that one. The second i red this i thought: omg, if they are gonna put it in season 4 it will be so bad. Another year were people think Robb's still a main character.
Here from the Episodeguide of Winteriscoming.net
Episode 29: The Rains of Castamere Writers: David Benioff & D.B. Weiss Director: David Nutter Runtime: Unknown Original Airdate: June 2, 2013
Synopsis: Robb presents himself to Walder Frey, and Edmure meets his bride. Jon faces his harshest test yet. Bran discovers a new gift. Daario and Jorah debate how to take Yunkai. House Frey joins with House Tully.
Reasonable counterpoints except the random bit about Arya returning to westeros. What does that have to do with it? If this is about listing off ways for her to return other than "Tobho beings her back to Westeros because he is secretly a FM and, and, and..." then I do not see the point. It is self evident that there are many simpler ways than that option. Occam's razor, simplest explanations are more likely, etc.
To make up one very simple option, I'll go with "She ditches the FM and gets herself on a ship to Westeros".
For the first part: She decided that she is a Stark and then cheated, using skinchanging of all symbolically significant things, her big important test. This is all in direct contradiction to her FM initiation. She is not headed towards being a real FM. She just picked up some skills from them. It is only a matter of time before she leaves to head back to Westeros, whether she cooperates with them long enough that they are the ones to send her for whatever purpose or not.
For the second part: There are countless ways she can catch a boat to get back across the narrow sea so it does not even warrant listing particulars.
I lean on the side of cynicism and not assuming every last thing is a plot relevant secret theory. If this, then if this, then maybe that...too many leaps across (sometimes very narrow) probabilities and the total probability of an idea gets quite tiny. GRRM describes himself as a gardener rather than an architect. He doesn't plan every last little thing out that intricately. He throws in plenty of things which trigger speculation, but not nearly every point of coincidence is very theory worthy material. Tobho Mott as a faceless man is very far out there.
Mott as a magic user is a false assumption. Smelting and forging are different things. GRRM confirms that spells are used to make it, that is smelting. Re-shaping it, aka re-forging it, is a practice that continued uninterrupted after both the doom and the deaths of the last dragons and even performed by at least one organization which makes a point of not employing magic (the occasional archmaester of the higher mysteries aside). GRRM indicates, though not explicitly, that it does not require magic.
"Q: In other words, if a smith knew how, could he take some fresh, high-quality steel and produce an equally fine sword?
A: Not unless he could work the magic."
No new Valyrian steel, at least not without magic.
"Q: Or is it something like Aragorn's Anduril in the Lord of the Rings, which could be re-forged but not made from scratch, or so it seemed to me.
A: That's pretty much been the situation since the Doom of Valyria."
Yes to reforging it, with no stipulation about magic. Such a stipulation would be called for in light of the previous answer if magic were required. Instead the wording probably indicates that this is specifically what Valyrian steelwork has been limited to since 'the magic died'. It is not conclusive though, which is why other factors like the nature of known instances of re-forging it are worth including in the discussion.
On May 24 2013 03:07 andrewlt wrote: I can't wait to read message boards on June 3. Should be fun.
I wish we were allowed to tell the the folks in the other thread that "It gets better" after episode 9. Those poor souls won't know what hit them.
It doesn't get better though. That is one of the great things about it.
Well, I guess people can cheer when Joff dies and that might count as a little blip of "better".
Do you think that'll happen in episode 10 or sometimes in season 4? Just curious. I'm thinking they may be cruel and make us wait for another season.
I think it will be season 4. It will have to be early.
On the other hand, Joff being dead in episode 10 might be the silver lining they think that they need to give the show watchers. I do not see it based on the preview summaries though.
I also really do not want them to cut Dorne. Besides Dorne being good, I do not think they should because they need the content in order to stick to >1 season:1 book and keep *behind George. If they kill Joff this season then it seems they cut Oberyn...and that bodes very poorly.
I am so glad that you are wrong on that one. The second i red this i thought: omg, if they are gonna put it in season 4 it will be so bad. Another year were people think Robb's still a main character.
Here from the Episodeguide of Winteriscoming.net
Episode 29: The Rains of Castamere Writers: David Benioff & D.B. Weiss Director: David Nutter Runtime: Unknown Original Airdate: June 2, 2013
Synopsis: Robb presents himself to Walder Frey, and Edmure meets his bride. Jon faces his harshest test yet. Bran discovers a new gift. Daario and Jorah debate how to take Yunkai. House Frey joins with House Tully.
We are talking about the purple wedding. Joff's death. You are talking about the red wedding. The red wedding is indeed quite certainly episode 9, the next one.
EPT
