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SPOILER WARNING If you only watch the show, this thread will spoil you of future events in HBO's Game of Thrones. Thread contains discussion of all books of the series A Song of Ice and FireClick Here for the spoiler-free thread. |
On May 22 2013 06:53 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On May 22 2013 06:47 Tiwo wrote:
Why do people think it's hard to do the Shae/Tywin thing? Shae is very jealous in the series and looks very sincere, and one way to get back at Tyrion is sleep with his father. Because that's the opposite of the point. Having Shae be so crazy in love with him she goes insane and does dumb things is about as far from "she was always a whore using him" as you can get. Shae lying to him all along is important for Tyrion's character development.
But you get much less of Tyrion wrestling with that idea in the show. In the book, almost every time we got his PoV he would be beating himself up about how Shae couldn't possibly love him because she was a whore, and he kept convincing himself one way or another until he finds her in his father's bed, and knows for sure.
I think they would have trouble pulling that off in the show with the same impact. The more likely scenario, and I think its unfortunate, is that they will have Tywin hang her, either before or after having her testify against Tyrion. This will give Tyrion more than enough material for the crossbow incident, even if they back off of the Tysha storyline a bit as motivation.
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On May 22 2013 07:14 ZasZ. wrote:Show nested quote +On May 22 2013 06:53 KwarK wrote:On May 22 2013 06:47 Tiwo wrote:
Why do people think it's hard to do the Shae/Tywin thing? Shae is very jealous in the series and looks very sincere, and one way to get back at Tyrion is sleep with his father. Because that's the opposite of the point. Having Shae be so crazy in love with him she goes insane and does dumb things is about as far from "she was always a whore using him" as you can get. Shae lying to him all along is important for Tyrion's character development. But you get much less of Tyrion wrestling with that idea in the show. In the book, almost every time we got his PoV he would be beating himself up about how Shae couldn't possibly love him because she was a whore, and he kept convincing himself one way or another until he finds her in his father's bed, and knows for sure. I think they would have trouble pulling that off in the show with the same impact. The more likely scenario, and I think its unfortunate, is that they will have Tywin hang her, either before or after having her testify against Tyrion. This will give Tyrion more than enough material for the crossbow incident, even if they back off of the Tysha storyline a bit as motivation.
You are overthinking this, and also overlooking that the Shae incident in the books was also meant to be a plot twist on the character of Tywin.
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On May 22 2013 07:14 ZasZ. wrote:Show nested quote +On May 22 2013 06:53 KwarK wrote:On May 22 2013 06:47 Tiwo wrote:
Why do people think it's hard to do the Shae/Tywin thing? Shae is very jealous in the series and looks very sincere, and one way to get back at Tyrion is sleep with his father. Because that's the opposite of the point. Having Shae be so crazy in love with him she goes insane and does dumb things is about as far from "she was always a whore using him" as you can get. Shae lying to him all along is important for Tyrion's character development. But you get much less of Tyrion wrestling with that idea in the show. In the book, almost every time we got his PoV he would be beating himself up about how Shae couldn't possibly love him because she was a whore, and he kept convincing himself one way or another until he finds her in his father's bed, and knows for sure. I think they would have trouble pulling that off in the show with the same impact. The more likely scenario, and I think its unfortunate, is that they will have Tywin hang her, either before or after having her testify against Tyrion. This will give Tyrion more than enough material for the crossbow incident, even if they back off of the Tysha storyline a bit as motivation.
No. They introduced that gold chain for a reason. I think we will still get our strangulation.
On May 21 2013 22:28 heishe wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2013 12:52 Irrelevant Label wrote:On May 21 2013 12:12 Highways wrote:
Cersei was explaining the the Rains of Castemere was when another house tried to rebel against Tywin, in which he killed them all.
Episode 9 is called Rains of Castemere... I really hope he is not a book reader messing around with that comment. It is perfect as long as he is a show only-er. Daario isn't the first one to lose his beard in the show incarnation. I think it is probably an intentional image thing. It is one thing to describe a beard in text for a bookish audience and another to show one on screen for a wide audience. Still...blue three pronged beard power! ![[image loading]](http://awoiaf.westeros.org/images/1/1f/Daario_Naharis.jpg) I don't know who from the awoiaf wiki does these illustrations, but pretty much all of them are completely terrible. All the characters end up looking like really cheesy/goofy (almost like caricatures actually) characters out of standard over the top fantasy, which is exactly 0% what asoiaf is. This is a much more realistic interpretation of how Daario would look like in the real world: + Show Spoiler +
That one is indeed much better. I am a bit attached to the old Amok character cards because they were the first (pretty close to) complete set of asoiaf character images based on loyal adaptations of the book descriptions.
http://en.amokanet.ru/gallery/martin/?curPos=0
On May 22 2013 04:57 heishe wrote:Show nested quote +On May 22 2013 04:39 Meow-Meow wrote:
Isn't there a difference between the Whites and the Others?
I've seen the terms being used pretty much synonymously through this thread, but I'm pretty sure one is significantly more badass than the other and I remember Mormont remarking about how they only know Dragon Glass kills X, not Y. The Others are the old looking super strong ones. What they are exactly nobody knows, but they're not just normal risen dead. The White Walkers (also referred to as Wights) are the zombies that are raised by the Others (e.g. the one that attacked Jon at Castle Black was a White Walker).
No. The Others are the White Walkers. They changed the name and the physical depiction for the show. The wights, called such in both show and books, are the undead minions.
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On May 22 2013 04:57 heishe wrote:Show nested quote +On May 22 2013 04:39 Meow-Meow wrote:
Isn't there a difference between the Whites and the Others?
I've seen the terms being used pretty much synonymously through this thread, but I'm pretty sure one is significantly more badass than the other and I remember Mormont remarking about how they only know Dragon Glass kills X, not Y. The Others are the old looking super strong ones. What they are exactly nobody knows, but they're not just normal risen dead. The White Walkers (also referred to as Wights) are the zombies that are raised by the Others (e.g. the one that attacked Jon at Castle Black was a White Walker).
Not calling them The Others is something i'm grateful about, as this would remind be of the brainrape ending of Lost. I don't want to be reminded of that bullshit.
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Yes, The Others and White Walkers are the same in the books and other "undead stuff" are called Wights that are summoned by the the Others/White Walkers.
Not only dragonglass kills the Others, but also Valyrian steel swords that was made in old Valyria. The knowledge about how to forge these swords was forgotten with the Doom that destruct Valyria, therefore only handful of these swords exist in Westeros. Ned Stark had an Valyrian Steel sword that Joffrey stole after his death.
The Others antagonists are as follows:
Dragonglass--->>Children of the Forest
Valyrian steel-----> From ancient Valyrian civilisation ---->>> the First Men used these swords to battle the Others.
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The first men never had Valyrian steel aside from perhaps one reference to one guy using a dragonsteel sword. It seems the reasonable bet that "dragonsteel" is Valyrian steel, though the long night allegedly predated Valyria and their dragon husbandry. This might also have been Lightbringer, or something else entirely.
The First Men still had bronze when the Andals arrived (much later than the long night). Aside from the one reference to a "dragonsteel" sword during the long night the first Valyrian steel arrived in Westeros only 500 years ago, and more stopped arriving about 400 years ago. It appears to all be traceable to trade with the newly arrived Targaryens in the pre-doom years.
The Long Night was won with obsidian provided by the CotF for the most part. That and whatever Lightbringer and Azor Ahai were.
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On May 22 2013 07:54 TigerKarl wrote:Show nested quote +On May 22 2013 04:57 heishe wrote:On May 22 2013 04:39 Meow-Meow wrote:
Isn't there a difference between the Whites and the Others?
I've seen the terms being used pretty much synonymously through this thread, but I'm pretty sure one is significantly more badass than the other and I remember Mormont remarking about how they only know Dragon Glass kills X, not Y. The Others are the old looking super strong ones. What they are exactly nobody knows, but they're not just normal risen dead. The White Walkers (also referred to as Wights) are the zombies that are raised by the Others (e.g. the one that attacked Jon at Castle Black was a White Walker). Not calling them The Others is something i'm grateful about, as this would remind be of the brainrape ending of Lost. I don't want to be reminded of that bullshit.
They were called both Others and White Walkers in the books interchangeably, and I do think that they didn't want to be the same as Lost.
I know the budget didn't really permit for the battle at the fist to be shown, but I wish they could have shown more than they did. Something like a night scene with the rangers hearing the 3 horns sound and scrambling to get ready to fight, and then just a bunch of dark silhouettes with glowing blue eyes coming towards them, with a fade to black accompanied with someone shouting that they can't stop them, screaming, and Mormont yelling for them to retreat. To have Sam be surrounded by them and live, then kill one just makes them seem so inconsequential without seeing what they can do, and they aren't going to have another chance to make them seem like a big threat for a long time now.
I wonder if they are going to show Cold Hands this season, since the scene from last episode resembled the set up where Sam fought off wight Small Paul, and then came out of the hut and was surrounded by wights and rescued by Cold Hands.
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On May 22 2013 12:46 Irrelevant Label wrote:
The first men never had Valyrian steel aside from perhaps one reference to one guy using a dragonsteel sword. It seems the reasonable bet that "dragonsteel" is Valyrian steel, though the long night allegedly predated Valyria and their dragon husbandry. This might also have been Lightbringer, or something else entirely.
The First Men still had bronze when the Andals arrived (much later than the long night). Aside from the one reference to a "dragonsteel" sword during the long night the first Valyrian steel arrived in Westeros only 500 years ago, and more stopped arriving about 400 years ago. It appears to all be traceable to trade with the newly arrived Targaryens in the pre-doom years.
The Long Night was won with obsidian provided by the CotF for the most part. That and whatever Lightbringer and Azor Ahai were.
I originally suspected Valyrian steel given it has magical properties and alledgedly forged by dragon fire however, like you say, the Long Night predated Valyria by many thousands of years.
That said it doesn't mean that dragon-steel is not dragon related, Valyria did not have the first nor only dragons in the world, they existed through the world long before Valyria though largely became extinct. This is proven because of the original Westerosi myths and legends that speaks of dragons, myths and legends that are also considerably older than Valyria. Gurm has also confirmed that dragons existing before and outside of Valyria
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On May 22 2013 07:28 Irrelevant Label wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2013 22:28 heishe wrote:On May 21 2013 12:52 Irrelevant Label wrote:On May 21 2013 12:12 Highways wrote:
Cersei was explaining the the Rains of Castemere was when another house tried to rebel against Tywin, in which he killed them all.
Episode 9 is called Rains of Castemere... I really hope he is not a book reader messing around with that comment. It is perfect as long as he is a show only-er. Daario isn't the first one to lose his beard in the show incarnation. I think it is probably an intentional image thing. It is one thing to describe a beard in text for a bookish audience and another to show one on screen for a wide audience. Still...blue three pronged beard power! I don't know who from the awoiaf wiki does these illustrations, but pretty much all of them are completely terrible. All the characters end up looking like really cheesy/goofy (almost like caricatures actually) characters out of standard over the top fantasy, which is exactly 0% what asoiaf is. This is a much more realistic interpretation of how Daario would look like in the real world: + Show Spoiler + That one is indeed much better. I am a bit attached to the old Amok character cards because they were the first (pretty close to) complete set of asoiaf character images based on loyal adaptations of the book descriptions. http://en.amokanet.ru/gallery/martin/?curPos=0
One has to admit that the "usual looking" characters are pretty spot-on from their descriptions in the book, as far as I recall (especially if you compare to how similiar they look to the series' actors if they stayed close to the book descriptions, see Balon Greyjoy for example). The somewhat extraordinary looking characters don't look as convincing, with Daario certainly being the most extreme example.. but I remember him as being the most extreme looking reoccuring character, too (apart from Tyrion, obviously ^^). Guess it's hard to portrait the "normal" looking characters faithfully and realistically without make the extraordinary ones look strange.
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On May 22 2013 05:10 ACrow wrote:Show nested quote +On May 22 2013 00:47 SnoWhiTe wrote:On May 21 2013 23:14 Dakkas wrote:On May 21 2013 22:28 heishe wrote:On May 21 2013 12:52 Irrelevant Label wrote:On May 21 2013 12:12 Highways wrote:
Cersei was explaining the the Rains of Castemere was when another house tried to rebel against Tywin, in which he killed them all.
Episode 9 is called Rains of Castemere... I really hope he is not a book reader messing around with that comment. It is perfect as long as he is a show only-er. Daario isn't the first one to lose his beard in the show incarnation. I think it is probably an intentional image thing. It is one thing to describe a beard in text for a bookish audience and another to show one on screen for a wide audience. Still...blue three pronged beard power! I don't know who from the awoiaf wiki does these illustrations, but pretty much all of them are completely terrible. All the characters end up looking like really cheesy/goofy (almost like caricatures actually) characters out of standard over the top fantasy, which is exactly 0% what asoiaf is. This is a much more realistic interpretation of how Daario would look like in the real world: While I'm not the biggest fan and prefer the one you posted, you have no proof that it's what gurm imagined. The one you posted is one that could work in a modern setting. You mustn't remember the descriptions that well because a lot of things were considerably were ridiculous in the books. At least they could have get him his golden tooth ! As for myself i've always pictured Daario as some kind of pirate just like Barbarossa. This is Barbarossa. This isn't  But yeah, I totally had another picture of Daario in mind. A lot more foreign/exotic.
I was refering to this Barbarossa :D
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I pretty much knew they weren't going to go with the colorful hair dies for Dario when they didn't do it with Illyrio in season 1. When trying to make a fantasy show be taken seriously by viewers who may not be fantasy fans, I can see how some people would think those descriptions wouldn't work.
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Just finished the books... why did you have to kill Jon Snow GRRM ... GRR! Very cool series though 
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On May 23 2013 16:55 Ketch wrote:Just finished the books... why did you have to kill Jon Snow GRRM ... GRR! Very cool series though
We don't actually know exactly what happened yet, and never forget what R'Hollor can do!
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Netherlands6192 Posts
On May 23 2013 16:55 Ketch wrote:Just finished the books... why did you have to kill Jon Snow GRRM ... GRR! Very cool series though
Also, given how GRRM likes to leave things hanging Jon probably isn't dead. Remember how he made that amazing recovery from the arrow wound? And how Arya got hit the The Hound's axe? There is probably more to it than GRRM is letting on. But I haven't actually finished book 5 yet so I may be entirely out of context from what I read up on it. But I have full confidence that Jon won't die because the plot becomes a bit redundant after his death - he is a major character and I am almost certain he is necessary to the advancement of the plot. And well, even if he does die - R'holler. And he is a warg, so he could just live on through Ghost.
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On May 23 2013 16:58 farvacola wrote:Show nested quote +On May 23 2013 16:55 Ketch wrote:Just finished the books... why did you have to kill Jon Snow GRRM ... GRR! Very cool series though We don't actually know exactly what happened yet, and never forget what R'Hollor can do!
Bring back Beric Dondarrion 6 times until he FINALLY dies . . . from reviving Catelyn Stark.
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On May 21 2013 07:24 armada[sb] wrote:
I don't see how any of those scenes are unnecessary. They're showing how close Jon and Ygritte are becoming, and oh, god, people are naked in a bathhouse. Both of those are completely true to the books.
The two whores with Theon seems to rub everyone the wrong way but it's obvious that they're just showing how demented that Ramsay is, and if you wanna argue that it didn't happen in the book, you can't really because it's something that was implied but happened while Theon wasn't being given POV chapters.
Melisandre and Gendry is kind of an improv way for them to do the whole Edric Storm storyline, but they also need to show that Stannis is still Stannis and not completely under the control of Melisandre, and building up for Davos' convincing him to go to the Wall.
Mero's is the same as he was portrayed in the book, he's a crude man who enjoys sex and whores. Daario and Dany are going to hook up just like they did in the book, and I'm pretty sure they were just displaying her interest in him when she unabashedly stood up from the tub.
You want to complain about nudity, but these are all scenes that either happened in the book or were implied. The show has nudity, get over it. If nudity offends you then you need to not watch the show, but it's not just thrown in there for the sake of showing tits.
Fair enough. I've probably been biased against the nudity back from scenes in earlier seasons when they were unnecessary, and I just have a difficult time shrugging off the feeling that they're inserting the nudity just to raise ratings, even if, as you pointed out, the nudity fits.
On May 21 2013 07:24 Monsen wrote:
Maybe you should just wait a few years until you're no longer scared by seeing pee pee parts.
I wish I was scared of them, because then I wouldn't have wasted so many hours on porn.
On May 22 2013 06:53 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On May 22 2013 06:47 Tiwo wrote:
Why do people think it's hard to do the Shae/Tywin thing? Shae is very jealous in the series and looks very sincere, and one way to get back at Tyrion is sleep with his father. Because that's the opposite of the point. Having Shae be so crazy in love with him she goes insane and does dumb things is about as far from "she was always a whore using him" as you can get. Shae lying to him all along is important for Tyrion's character development.
Maybe Shae's jealousy is just part of the act? But...
On May 22 2013 07:14 ZasZ. wrote:Show nested quote +On May 22 2013 06:53 KwarK wrote:On May 22 2013 06:47 Tiwo wrote:
Why do people think it's hard to do the Shae/Tywin thing? Shae is very jealous in the series and looks very sincere, and one way to get back at Tyrion is sleep with his father. Because that's the opposite of the point. Having Shae be so crazy in love with him she goes insane and does dumb things is about as far from "she was always a whore using him" as you can get. Shae lying to him all along is important for Tyrion's character development. But you get much less of Tyrion wrestling with that idea in the show. In the book, almost every time we got his PoV he would be beating himself up about how Shae couldn't possibly love him because she was a whore, and he kept convincing himself one way or another until he finds her in his father's bed, and knows for sure. I think they would have trouble pulling that off in the show with the same impact. The more likely scenario, and I think its unfortunate, is that they will have Tywin hang her, either before or after having her testify against Tyrion. This will give Tyrion more than enough material for the crossbow incident, even if they back off of the Tysha storyline a bit as motivation.
Yeah, you're right, we have been missing that from the show... :/
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I'm thinking Jon Snow will survive the stabbing but be crippled, thus forced to only command and never fight, which may end up furthering his leadership ability?
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I'm just flabbergasted by the way (fairly mild) nudity is treated as something to be avoided. Now to be sure I wouldn't want this series to become porn, but I'm completely at a loss when people attack (and defend) those scenes. It's not like this is a series for children.
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On May 23 2013 18:44 Monsen wrote:
I'm just flabbergasted by the way (fairly mild) nudity is treated as something to be avoided. Now to be sure I wouldn't want this series to become porn, but I'm completely at a loss when people attack (and defend) those scenes. It's not like this is a series for children.
I am perfectly fine with casual nudity and sex. I even think the show is a bit prudish in some aspects. IE lots of backsides instead of frontal nudity. However, some scenes were just eyecandy/porn-ish and it distracted me from the story (mostly S1, Dany+handmaiden and Ros+other whore learning from Littlefinger). Both those scenes would have been better if they were just handled with dialogue imo.
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I just know for one thing with the whole nudity thing...it is not for ratings, GoT is doing really really good ratings wise, always surpassing HBOs expectations.
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Netherlands6192 Posts
On May 23 2013 20:25 Highcounsel wrote:
I just know for one thing with the whole nudity thing...it is not for ratings, GoT is doing really really good ratings wise, always surpassing HBOs expectations.
Are their ratings for this show not at all related to the amount of nudity and sex? I think HBO has quite a nice mix of violence, language, nudity etc to satisfy any adult viewer. But they do go a bit OTT with the sex in my opinion.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_md6csl8ab51ru00pmo1_500.jpg)
