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SPOILER WARNING If you only watch the show, this thread will spoil you of future events in HBO's Game of Thrones. Thread contains discussion of all books of the series A Song of Ice and FireClick Here for the spoiler-free thread. |
On May 15 2013 06:46 daemir wrote:
How does that make sense? Jaime met Jeyne with her mother, who conspired the red wedding with Tywin, no? You'd think the mother would have brought the real Jeyne there and not hide her with the Blackfish?
I don't think the westerlings knew about the RW, at least not Jeyne. It could also be A) They liked Robb B) They are afraid of Jaime
Also, reading Jeyne's mother wiki page is very interesting: http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Sybell_Spicer
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On May 15 2013 06:42 Zozo wrote:Show nested quote +On May 15 2013 04:50 Dosey wrote:
I just don't understand the whole point of making her pregnant... if she's pregnant, they HAVE to kill her. Otherwise LF's manipulation of Sansa, Stannis's offer to Jon, and Davos's quest for Rickon become completely pointless and irrelevant because Lord Robb Starks son automatically becomes heir to Winterfell. (Oh, and Ramsay's marriage to "Arya" becomes pointless as well)
That's why they kept Tully alive after the wedding. They wanted him to provide a legal heir so that Riverrun didn't fall to the Blackfish by default. This is not exactly a change, it may be in fact a spoiler. Jaime and Catelyn's describe Jeyne differently, and she could be hiding with Robb's son while the "Jeyne" that met the kingslayer being a decoy. Most people seem to think that she is with the Blackfish. From the wiki: "It has been noted by fans that the descriptions of Jeyne as given by Jaime and Catelyn do not match. In A Storm of Swords Catelyn Tully describes her as a undeniable pretty young woman, slender but with good hips (a factor which may suggest a fertile woman). Jaime Lannister in A Feast For Crows describes her as a pretty girl, but not a girl to lose a kingdom for. He also notes that she has narrow hips. This difference has been the source for a number of speculations about Jeyne's fate."
Apparently the difference in descriptions of Jeyne between Jaime and Catelyn was a mistake.
http://www.vulture.com/2012/10/influential-fans-the-webmasters-of-westerosorg.html
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On May 15 2013 07:00 MajuGarzett wrote:Show nested quote +On May 15 2013 06:42 Zozo wrote:On May 15 2013 04:50 Dosey wrote:
I just don't understand the whole point of making her pregnant... if she's pregnant, they HAVE to kill her. Otherwise LF's manipulation of Sansa, Stannis's offer to Jon, and Davos's quest for Rickon become completely pointless and irrelevant because Lord Robb Starks son automatically becomes heir to Winterfell. (Oh, and Ramsay's marriage to "Arya" becomes pointless as well)
That's why they kept Tully alive after the wedding. They wanted him to provide a legal heir so that Riverrun didn't fall to the Blackfish by default. This is not exactly a change, it may be in fact a spoiler. Jaime and Catelyn's describe Jeyne differently, and she could be hiding with Robb's son while the "Jeyne" that met the kingslayer being a decoy. Most people seem to think that she is with the Blackfish. From the wiki: "It has been noted by fans that the descriptions of Jeyne as given by Jaime and Catelyn do not match. In A Storm of Swords Catelyn Tully describes her as a undeniable pretty young woman, slender but with good hips (a factor which may suggest a fertile woman). Jaime Lannister in A Feast For Crows describes her as a pretty girl, but not a girl to lose a kingdom for. He also notes that she has narrow hips. This difference has been the source for a number of speculations about Jeyne's fate." Apparently the difference in descriptions of Jeyne between Jaime and Catelyn was a mistake. http://www.vulture.com/2012/10/influential-fans-the-webmasters-of-westerosorg.html
Doesn't seem ironclad to me so I'm going to choose not to believe it. Long live the heir to the north.
atleast untill I hear something more conclusive then the guy who was told by the guy who was told by the guy who was told by martin.
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Sorry, it just doesn't make sense to me for GRRM to introduce a new heir to Winterfell that won't even be old enough to hold a sword by the time the series ends. It would accomplish very little and would leave more questions than answers. Do you really think Blackfish would rather come out of the blue with some child of Robb + a Traitor bitch (that was essentially the cause of his great-nephew's downfall) over Rickon/Sansa/Arya/Bran? Blackfish has proven he has no interest in the game of thrones, to put such a crucial piece in his hands is just... stupid.
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On May 15 2013 06:49 Zozo wrote:Show nested quote +On May 15 2013 06:46 daemir wrote:
How does that make sense? Jaime met Jeyne with her mother, who conspired the red wedding with Tywin, no? You'd think the mother would have brought the real Jeyne there and not hide her with the Blackfish? I don't think the westerlings knew about the RW, at least not Jeyne. It could also be A) They liked Robb B) They are afraid of Jaime Also, reading Jeyne's mother wiki page is very interesting: http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Sybell_Spicer
Two of them were on the short list of conspirators who helped plan it. They knew. Jeyne probably didn't though, she'd have been too much of a liability. Need to know, leaks that would ruin it, loose ends, that she probably actually liked Robb, etc. There is no way they would have let her know.
That tight information control was where a bit of drama was mentioned later because Sybell wasn't able to ensure that Raynald (her son, and Jeyne's brother) would be out of the way. He was not in on it of course, and actually liked Robb, and he died trying to release Gray Wind when the fighting broke out.
There is no way Sybell would let her daughter give Robb an heir with the intent of supporting the cause of house Stark with it, and her daugher has been firmly in her and her brother's hands. This theory came out of GRRM either making a minor character description mistake or Jaime just has higher standards for women's attractiveness than Cat. Considering his background that seems very likely. The guy's primary benchmark for what constitutes an attractive woman is his sister, one of the series three women for whom the fact that they are absurdly hot is one of their frequently mentioned characteristics.
I think this is the definitive essay on the topic. It is quite biased in favor of the theory. (which I think they all should be even though I oppose this one; might as well be sure to enthusiastically include everything that even might support what you are writing about):
http://towerofthehand.com/blog/2010/08/02_heir_to_the_north/index.html
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On May 15 2013 04:50 Dosey wrote:
I just don't understand the whole point of making her pregnant... if she's pregnant, they HAVE to kill her. Otherwise LF's manipulation of Sansa, Stannis's offer to Jon, and Davos's quest for Rickon become completely pointless and irrelevant because Lord Robb Starks son automatically becomes heir to Winterfell. (Oh, and Ramsay's marriage to "Arya" becomes pointless as well)
That's why they kept Tully alive after the wedding. They wanted him to provide a legal heir so that Riverrun didn't fall to the Blackfish by default.
Why? It's not like her pregnancy is public knowledge. Having the blackfish skirt her away in secret or having her indeed be a Lannister/Bolton/Frey honeypot spy adds a lot of potential twists if she's pregnant with the heir to the north.
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I haven't watched the last 2 or 3 episodes and i don't really feel like catching up, maybe i'll just watch the red wedding episode.
Am i missing some awesome scenes? I watched the "chaos is a ladder" one and it was pretty cheesey.
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On May 16 2013 04:10 Spaiku wrote:
I haven't watched the last 2 or 3 episodes and i don't really feel like catching up, maybe i'll just watch the red wedding episode.
Am i missing some awesome scenes? I watched the "chaos is a ladder" one and it was pretty cheesey.
At the very least, watch every scene with Tywin in it. There's been scenes with him and Cersei, Tyrion and Joffrey, and they've all been absolutely amazing. The Brienne/Jaime stuff has also been really, really, really damn good.
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On May 16 2013 04:15 Conti wrote:Show nested quote +On May 16 2013 04:10 Spaiku wrote:
I haven't watched the last 2 or 3 episodes and i don't really feel like catching up, maybe i'll just watch the red wedding episode.
Am i missing some awesome scenes? I watched the "chaos is a ladder" one and it was pretty cheesey. At the very least, watch every scene with Tywin in it. There's been scenes with him and Cersei, Tyrion and Joffrey, and they've all been absolutely amazing. The Brienne/Jaime stuff has also been really, really, really damn good.
I was waiting for "I dreamt of you" or "I only rescue maidens", sadly they didn't come our way  . I'd have thought GRRM would grant us those. At least we got a HAR.
Dany was pretty damn good in last ep too btw.
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why would you want to skip any episode anyway?
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On May 16 2013 05:58 PredY wrote:
why would you want to skip any episode anyway?
If it was episode 6 of this season, I could see skipping it. If editing together all the scenes from the season into one huge video for example, edit it out and replace it with a note saying "BwoB sells Gendry to Melisandre, The wildlings Jon is with climb the Wall, Ros is finally dead, LF has entered all new levels of being butchered, the director thought he was filming something else entirely for a couple Wall related scenes, here is the good part: <youtube link of the Tywin/Olenna scene>".
The guy posting the question seems to have had the misfortune of that being the one episode from this season which he has seen. If that was all I'd seen I'd probably pretend the show didn't exist and feign obtusity wondering what is this "other project" that GRRM seems to be wasting so much time on is.
As bad as a few parts of season two were, nearly half of that episode was as bad or worse than s2's lowest moments. I'd take an equivalent length loop of "where are my dwagons!" over the latter two Wall scenes. At least it would be repetitive and easy to mentally zone out from.
At the end of the last episode I, too, was hoping for the something along the lines of "Oh, that is good. I only rescue maidens." It worked well enough anyway.
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On May 16 2013 08:19 Irrelevant Label wrote:Show nested quote +On May 16 2013 05:58 PredY wrote:
why would you want to skip any episode anyway? If it was episode 6 of this season, I could see skipping it. If editing together all the scenes from the season into one huge video for example, edit it out and replace it with a note saying "BwoB sells Gendry to Melisandre, The wildlings Jon is with climb the Wall, Ros is finally dead, LF has entered all new levels of being butchered, the director thought he was filming something else entirely for a couple Wall related scenes, here is the good part: <youtube link of the Tywin/Olenna scene>". The guy posting the question seems to have had the misfortune of that being the one episode from this season which he has seen. If that was all I'd seen I'd probably pretend the show didn't exist and feign obtusity wondering what is this "other project" that GRRM seems to be wasting so much time on is. As bad as a few parts of season two were, nearly half of that episode was as bad or worse than s2's lowest moments. I'd take an equivalent length loop of "where are my dwagons!" over the latter two Wall scenes. At least it would be repetitive and easy to mentally zone out from. At the end of the last episode I, too, was hoping for the something along the lines of "Oh, that is good. I only rescue maidens." It worked well enough anyway.
At some point you need to realize that the shows are not the books and they never will be. The character development and exact transfer from page to screen that you seem to want just isn't possible. GRRM has a lot of integrity and it's not as if he's just going to allow his show to be butchered for the sake of money. They don't have time to build the relationship of Jon Snow and Ygritte the way they did in the books, when they can only give him a few minutes of screen time per episode at most. They don't have time to show Littlefinger's maneuvering through everyone's point of view like they did in the book. They have to spell out everyone a little more obviously in the show because of time restrictions and because you can't expect the average show watcher to read deeply into a few minutes worth of each character.
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Pet theory: Talisa is really preggo, is really a Lannister spy, and dies in the RW, just for the sake of emphasizing the brutality of the perpetrators.
In the book Jeyne is part of a minor, Lannister(?)-aligned house which bends the knee, so it makes sense that she is spared. In the show, she's from across the Narrow Sea, so she has no real worth to anyone once she completes her mission.
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Not sure if it has been discussed, but at a press day for the show for seasons 3/4 the actor who played syrio was there.
Any guesses as to what role he'll play and if we'll see him this season or the next?
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On May 16 2013 09:29 TheKwas wrote:
Pet theory: Talisa is really preggo, is really a Lannister spy, and dies in the RW, just for the sake of emphasizing the brutality of the perpetrators.
In the book Jeyne is part of a minor, Lannister(?)-aligned house which bends the knee, so it makes sense that she is spared. In the show, she's from across the Narrow Sea, so she has no real worth to anyone once she completes her mission.
If Talisa would be a spy and got herself pregnant from Robb, though, she would be pretty damn stupid, wouldn't she? Or will this be one of those cheesy last moment "I'm sorry I betrayed you I really fell in love with you I regret everything oh the humanity!" kind of plots?
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On May 16 2013 08:33 armada[sb] wrote:Show nested quote +On May 16 2013 08:19 Irrelevant Label wrote:On May 16 2013 05:58 PredY wrote:
why would you want to skip any episode anyway? If it was episode 6 of this season, I could see skipping it. If editing together all the scenes from the season into one huge video for example, edit it out and replace it with a note saying "BwoB sells Gendry to Melisandre, The wildlings Jon is with climb the Wall, Ros is finally dead, LF has entered all new levels of being butchered, the director thought he was filming something else entirely for a couple Wall related scenes, here is the good part: <youtube link of the Tywin/Olenna scene>". The guy posting the question seems to have had the misfortune of that being the one episode from this season which he has seen. If that was all I'd seen I'd probably pretend the show didn't exist and feign obtusity wondering what is this "other project" that GRRM seems to be wasting so much time on is. As bad as a few parts of season two were, nearly half of that episode was as bad or worse than s2's lowest moments. I'd take an equivalent length loop of "where are my dwagons!" over the latter two Wall scenes. At least it would be repetitive and easy to mentally zone out from. At the end of the last episode I, too, was hoping for the something along the lines of "Oh, that is good. I only rescue maidens." It worked well enough anyway. At some point you need to realize that the shows are not the books and they never will be. The character development and exact transfer from page to screen that you seem to want just isn't possible. GRRM has a lot of integrity and it's not as if he's just going to allow his show to be butchered for the sake of money. They don't have time to build the relationship of Jon Snow and Ygritte the way they did in the books, when they can only give him a few minutes of screen time per episode at most. They don't have time to show Littlefinger's maneuvering through everyone's point of view like they did in the book. They have to spell out everyone a little more obviously in the show because of time restrictions and because you can't expect the average show watcher to read deeply into a few minutes worth of each character.
This is not relevant to my criticism of episode 6. I'm well aware of those things.
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On May 16 2013 13:25 schmutttt wrote:
Not sure if it has been discussed, but at a press day for the show for seasons 3/4 the actor who played syrio was there.
Any guesses as to what role he'll play and if we'll see him this season or the next?
wont see him cause he's dead
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Or simply, Blackfish will tell not to offend the Frey by bringing the Talisa bitch to the wedding and he will bring her with him to Riverrun
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On May 16 2013 15:12 Conti wrote:Show nested quote +On May 16 2013 09:29 TheKwas wrote:
Pet theory: Talisa is really preggo, is really a Lannister spy, and dies in the RW, just for the sake of emphasizing the brutality of the perpetrators.
In the book Jeyne is part of a minor, Lannister(?)-aligned house which bends the knee, so it makes sense that she is spared. In the show, she's from across the Narrow Sea, so she has no real worth to anyone once she completes her mission.
If Talisa would be a spy and got herself pregnant from Robb, though, she would be pretty damn stupid, wouldn't she? Or will this be one of those cheesy last moment "I'm sorry I betrayed you I really fell in love with you I regret everything oh the humanity!" kind of plots?
Well, just look what's happening with Shae. The fact that she's preggo is just more reason for her to die in the Red Wedding.
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EPT
